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Generation IV Remake Speculation

Will there be remakes in Gen VIII?


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Re: the sales there is a key difference; Ruby/Sapphire despite being a pair is selling people a new experience. Emerald is basically selling them $40 DLC
 
No, that's not really a fair assessment. Ruby and Sapphire are separate purchases, so RS' sales are inflated by that difference. Some people bought both Ruby and Sapphire, so the RS fanbase is a bit smaller than it looks. When you take into account how many people bought only one and how many people bought both, Emerald's sales are a bit closer.

And Emerald really isn't a different game either. It's RS with some enhancements.
No, if GF made RS a non paired game, the sales would've been just as high, really, with only a small percent smaller sales due to some people buying both, but a very negligible difference anyway. Still nearly 3 times more than Emerald. Simply because it came before Emerald, and is more famous. You are basically nitpicking here because you know that first pair games are always more well known than third versions, even if third versions are considered better by the hardcore fans (us).
So in this case maybe it would've been unreasonable to expect every single thing Emerald did to make it in. But missing the Battle Frontier is major, the Battle Frontier was a huge feature and was heavily promoted in 3rd gen.
The Battle Frontier is probably a lot more time consuming to make than we think, because if it was that easy to make, they would have it every time. There is probably a reason why Game Freak only develop BFs during third versions (Emerald and Platinum), they simply don't have any other stuff to develop during those, and therefore have more time for such a time cinsuming feature.
Primal Reversion is pretty much the same as Mega Evolution, so that shouldn't really count twice. Underwater battles are just extra trainer battles, there's nothing special about them. And the Mirage Spots were extremely tiny and just glorified containers for extra post game Pokemon (which HGSS had more of). And ORAS isn't the only game with revamped areas, Mt. Silver was also revamped in HGSS. So they're a lot closer in terms of new content than you think.
Not at all. And you know it.

The only big addition HGSS made was the Pokeathlon.
ORAS made 4 big additions: Soaring, DexNav, Delta Episode and 30 new Pokemon forms (35 if we add the 5 new Pikachu formes).

Especially the latter (new Pokemon formes) is a very important point in favor of ORAS over HGSS, because new Pokemon forms is what keeps mid-Gen Pokemon games FRESH, and HGSS had zero of those.

Area wise, ORAS also expanded Victory Road, Sea Mauville, the Underwater, and Scorched Slab, added 3 new Secret Base Islands, and added 38 Mirage Spots (small or not put 38 not very big islands together, and it is way more than what HGSS added). So yeah, area wise, ORAS added more than HGSS as well. So yeah, the difference in new features, and in new areas, is actually bigger than you think.
They really need to respect the feelings of both audiences though, and that's the problem with the "modern" mindset is that it almost completely revolves around the casuals and the aspects of the games they think that audience cares about instead of simply creating a high quality, well rounded game that appeals to multiple demographics. If you look at what they've done with the 6th gen games Game Freak is a lot more biased towards new Pokemon and forms, story, and accessibility than content, difficulty, and exploration. This kind of approach turns off fans who like the latter, so that handicaps their games' sales.
This is 25% true and 75% your personal opinion and exaggeration.
Fortunately, Game Freak seems to be taking a more balanced approach with SM, the game looks to be accessible for casuals yet free and deep enough for older fans, and that kind of approach would probably be better for the DP remakes. Sinnoh is beloved for its content, but has had issues with accessibility, so focusing on making the game easier to navigate while still retaining the game's sense of scale and depth is a must for Game Freak to get both audiences interested.
I agree about SM looking good, but I disagree about Gen VI being anything different. Your perception of Gen VI is very exagerated imo.
 
The Battle Frontier is probably a lot more time consuming to make than we think, because if it was that easy to make, they would have it every time. There is probably a reason why Game Freak only develop BFs during third versions (Emerald and Platinum), they simply don't have any other stuff to develop during those, and therefore have more time for such a time cinsuming feature.

If Game Freak included everything that was easy to make, then why don't we see gym leader rematches every game? They don't always exclude things because they're not feasible. Sometimes it's for creative reasons. And not having the Battle Frontier sounds more like a creative decision than a time management decision. They had the island in ORAS, which is probably the most time consuming part of it. All that's missing is the facilities.

The only big addition HGSS made was the Pokeathlon.
ORAS made 4 big additions: Soaring, DexNav, Delta Episode and 30 new Pokemon forms (35 if we add the 5 new Pikachu formes).

Whether or not something's a "big" addition is subjective.

Especially the latter (new Pokemon formes) is a very important point in favor of ORAS over HGSS, because new Pokemon forms is what keeps mid-Gen Pokemon games FRESH, and HGSS had zero of those.

Also subjective, outside of ORAS having new forms and HGSS having none.

Area wise, ORAS also expanded Victory Road, Sea Mauville, the Underwater, and Scorched Slab, added 3 new Secret Base Islands, and added 38 Mirage Spots (small or not put 38 not very big islands together, and it is way more than what HGSS added). So yeah, area wise, ORAS added more than HGSS as well. So yeah, the difference in new features, and in new areas, is actually bigger than you think.

They were redesigned, but I'm not sure I'd call all of those "expanded". Additionally, the Mirage Spots are so small that they don't really add up to much.

This is 25% true and 75% your personal opinion and exaggeration.

I agree about SM looking good, but I disagree about Gen VI being anything different. Your perception of Gen VI is very exagerated imo.

Not really. Ignoring demographics can decrease sales, so they should strive to make their game as appealing as possible.

Also, I'm not the only one that thinks the 6th gen games are too light on content. I've seen the same sentiment echoed here and throughout the rest of the fanbase.
 
HGSS and ORAS were made the way they were suppose to be made. That's it. Same would go for Sinnoh remakes and others. Remakes are staying true to the originals and always will be. Expecting Game Freak to shove a load of third version game content into remakes of a paired version is like asking for all regions in one game.
 
Following Pokemon, the GB Sounds, and the ambient sounds...all pretty big additions, honestly. HG/SS also had a plethora of exclusive events, and the Sinjoh Ruins area. The Pikachu Coloured Pichu is a HG/SS exclusive form if I recall.

I would also mention the Safari Zone, which helped to improve Johto's Pokémon selection (and was a new take on the feature in general, so add another plus there), as did the cross-generation evolutions that they *did* add (for some reason they held back on a few of them, whereas ORAS went all-inclusive). However, I don't think I would put a lot of emphasis on the GB Sounds (which mean jack-squat to any newer players; they're just a source of nostalgiawank), and especially not on ambient sounds (basically akin to a graphical update, which just goes hand-in-hand with being a remake, and besides, ORAS added overworld Pokémon which were in that same vein). Walking Pokémon is a pretty big thing, though, yeah. And, HGSS came with the Pokéwalker.

The Sinjoh Ruins and Celebi/Giovanni events, in my opinion, have the increasingly significant (and terribly unfortunate, because they expand on HGSS's themes very well) issue of being event-based. If you couldn't get them, then you never saw them for yourself. And they are next-to-impossible to relive these days unless you have an Action Replay. Whereas the only thing in ORAS that you miss out on by not getting the Shiny Beldum is, like, the Alain reference. So yes, those events deserve partial credit, but they existed under restrictions and are now outdated and near-useless.

The Spiky-Eared* Pichu ("Pikachu-Colored" was just a Shiny Pichu), which only gets a unique sprite and different Pokéathlon stats, doesn't really hold a candle to 20 Mega Evolutions, 2 Primal Reversions, and 5 Pikachu forms that all get an exclusive move. Plus, it ceases to exist as of Generation V and onward, whereas the only ones from ORAS that will suffer that fate are the Cosplay Pikachu forms. But the Mega Evolutions and Primal Reversions will (in all likelihood) continue on into future games, which makes ORAS's contribution much more noteworthy. Although, to be fair, that isn't to say that Gen IV was devoid of mid-generation form additions. Obviously we got the Rotom, Giratina, and Shaymin forms in Platinum.
 
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HGSS and ORAS were made the way they were suppose to be made. That's it. Same would go for Sinnoh remakes and others. Remakes are staying true to the originals and always will be.

And what is "the way they're supposed to be made"? Because the two have very different development styles and creative directions. Would you argue that FRLG were also the way they're supposed to be made? Because they're even more different as well, FRLG was practically a copy/paste.

Expecting Game Freak to shove a load of third version game content into remakes of a paired version is like asking for all regions in one game.

Not at all. An all region game is several magnitudes larger than a remake with third version content, whereas third version content is maybe 125-150% of the game's content at best. The two aren't remotely comparable, the former is infinitely more realistic than the latter.
 
And what is "the way they're supposed to be made"? Because the two have very different development styles and creative directions. Would you argue that FRLG were also the way they're supposed to be made? Because they're even more different as well, FRLG was practically a copy/paste.



Not at all. An all region game is several magnitudes larger than a remake with third version content, whereas third version content is maybe 125-150% of the game's content at best. The two aren't remotely comparable, the former is infinitely more realistic than the latter.
FRLG was suppose to stick to the original story which they did. They did add sevi islands with some only in post game. Remakes stick to the original pair of games and not the third version. Otherwise we would have gotten Lighting Yellow, Icy Crystal and Delta Emerald. So I don't expect a Distortion Platinum game.
 
I'm definitely in the camp of including third version content. The entire point of the third versions was to be BETTER. I'm not saying to remake the 3rd version, or make the remakes exactly like it, but for God's sake include the basic improvements!

Sure, go ahead and keep the same set of version exclusives. Different Pokemon, opposite legendaries, differing story, fine. Keep all that. But the big improvements made in the third version (that wouldn't intrude upon version exclusive stuff I guess), just keep it... There was no real reason to leave out the battle frontier. Just, no. It was a post-game extra that most would appreciate.

As for when DP remakes happen, please keep some of Platinum's improvements. If DP remakes don't use the expanded Pokedex from Platinum, I'm gonna be pissed. The selection of Pokemon in Platinum was worlds better than DP, as were the teams of gyms and elite 4. On top of the Dex expansion in Platinum, I'd also want them to include a Distortion World episode (like the Delta Episode) for Giratina. And the Gen 4 battle frontier. And Looker/Charon.

The improvements added in third versions were added for a reason. To make the game better. Leaving them out is purposefully making a game not as good as it could be. Full stop, regardless of how pure you want the remakes to be to the originals. Personally, while I enjoy remakes, I would love them even more if they overhauled the games enough to make them better overall, while still retaining the basics of what made them great.
 
Battle Frontier is Emerald exclusive. Also they said players wouldn't have time for it and get easily bored. We don't actually need third version content in remakes because those are just optional.
 
The Spiky-Eared* Pichu ("Pikachu-Colored" was just a Shiny Pichu), which only gets a unique sprite and different Pokéathlon stats, doesn't really hold a candle to 20 Mega Evolutions, 2 Primal Reversions, and 5 Pikachu forms that all get an exclusive move. Plus, it ceases to exist as of Generation V and onward, whereas the only ones from ORAS that will suffer that fate are the Cosplay Pikachu forms. But the Mega Evolutions and Primal Reversions will (in all likelihood) continue on into future games, which makes ORAS's contribution much more noteworthy.

Actually, I'd say Cosplay Pikachu still has a small chance at returning for Sun/Moon considering its whole marketing in Generation 6, which is much more than Spiky-Eared Pichu has ever received. Especially since it's in Pokken. Its inclusion there has made me wonder if they're going to ditch it or not.

For the forms being tied into Contests, I guess they could tie them into some new thing for Sun/Moon? Apologies for going a bit off-topic, but speaking of Spiky-Eared Pichu + Cosplay Pikachu and Sinnoh remakes... I'm expecting a female-only Raichu form to happen.
 
Actually, I'd say Cosplay Pikachu still has a small chance at returning for Sun/Moon considering its whole marketing in Generation 6, which is much more than Spiky-Eared Pichu has ever received. Especially since it's in Pokken. Its inclusion there has made me wonder if they're going to ditch it or not.

The only issue with that is that you cannot store the Cosplay Pikachu forms in the Pokémon Bank. I guess an udate could fix that, but that would just make me wonder why they ever restricted it in the first place. Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, and Hoopa can all be stored in the Bank despite having forms and learning moves that don't exist in XY, so I don't see why they wouldn't just let you store Cosplay Pikachu without letting you move it to XY.

For the forms being tied into Contests, I guess they could tie them into some new thing for Sun/Moon? Apologies for going a bit off-topic, but speaking of Spiky-Eared Pichu + Cosplay Pikachu and Sinnoh remakes... I'm expecting a female-only Raichu form to happen.

I don't really expect Raichu to get anything ever. :p

Battle Frontier is Emerald exclusive. Also they said players wouldn't have time for it and get easily bored. We don't actually need third version content in remakes because those are just optional.

The Battle Frontier is only as exclusive as they make it; it's not as if, back in 2005, they drew up an edict declaring that the Frontier must never appear in another game. I mean, the whole notion of it being "Emerald exclusive" kind of crumbles under the fact that another Frontier appears in Platinum/HGSS.

You say that we don't "need" third version content in remakes because those are "optional," but so are lots of features from the original pairs. Do ORAS really "need" Contests or Secret Bases? In theory, the games could function just fine without them. But they are included because they are classic, fan-favorite features that have a strong association with those games. The Battle Frontier, having first debuted in Emerald, is strongly associated with the Hoenn games. I mean, frankly, I don't think people actually make that much of a distinction between RS and Emerald. The more dedicated fans all know the differences but prefer Emerald anyway, and the casuals probably have only a broad recollection of "games set in Hoenn." So, sure, ride the iconography of RS because those are obviously the more recognizable names, but this splitting hairs about how they were "RS remakes, so they can't have Emerald features" doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And I doubt it would make much sense to Game Freak, either, because ORAS are laced several elements from Emerald (the bonus Starters, the Delta Episode, Wallace's Sootopolitan team, the references to him being Champion and to the Match Call feature and to the Battle Frontier/Scott/Lucy/Brandon/Tucker). So it's clearly not an all-out ban on Emerald features being included. Keeping them as "RS remakes" was an artistic decision, and the Battle Frontier was excluded not because it was "Emerald exclusive," but because they felt it was an outdated feature that only a small portion of players would appreciate, and that probably didn't justify the amount of work that it would have required.

Now, whether that seems like a good reason to leave it out or not largely depends on what camp you fall into. Personally, while I am sympathetic to the more "hardcore" players and understand why they are angry or dissatisfied, I can't say that GF's assessment is entirely wrong - people are very busy these days and, objectively, the Maison on its own provides the essentials of the whole Battle Facility concept (the different gimmicks in the extra Frontier Facilities are really just fluff - very creative and entertaining fluff, from what I gather, but clearly the Maison/Tower equivalent is the only part that you really need). And, personally, I probably wouldn't have made much use of the other Facilities, either, because I am busy and I am not very interested in them, just as they said. For my part, I can't say that I really care about the Frontier's absence. It just doesn't bother me. I get everything that I need from the occasional trip to the Maison. And now that we have seen the success of Pokémon Go, we can't even say that Masuda was out-of-touch with his "mobile mentality," either, because that game did gangbusters and got more people interested in the franchise than the main series games have in a long time. Of course, I suppose one could then argue that if the dedicated players are the only ones who care about the main games, then the games should be tailored more toward them, while the casuals can all go play around on Go.

I dunno. I don't think either side is entirely right or wrong on this one. I can understand where both arguments are coming from.
 
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There is too many pokemon now so it be too much hard for Game Freak. Maybe certain pokemon but not every single one of them.

For the start of a new generation or a remake where a large portion of game development is spent on making new pokemon and building a region from scratch, i agree. However for a SM update or sequel where there's little to no new pokemon and the region is the same with only a few new locations and changes, i wouldn't say it's impossible. The Pokemon models are there, it's just a matter of Game Freak making walking animations for them as Chunsoft did for Super Mystery Dungeon.
 
For the start of a new generation or a remake where a large portion of game development is spent on making new pokemon and building a region from scratch, i agree. However for a SM update or sequel where there's little to no new pokemon and the region is the same with only a few new locations and changes, i wouldn't say it's impossible. The Pokemon models are there, it's just a matter of Game Freak making walking animations for them as Chunsoft did for Super Mystery Dungeon.
That still be too much work to put in for the next games. Walking with pokemon was okay with games like HGSS since it had less pokemon. Also the fact that you can't turn it off bugs some people. So I think it is better that it is gone.
 
That still be too much work to put in for the next games.
Like i said before, updates/sequels are the best opportunity for GF to bring back walking pokemon as the groundwork for the region, pokemon, and battle mechanics are already in place thus giving them less work and more time to work on a feature like walking pokemon.

Walking with pokemon was okay with games like HGSS since it had less pokemon.
Didn't seem to stop SMD from doing it despite having every Gen I-VI pokemon available.

Also the fact that you can't turn it off bugs some people. So I think it is better that it is gone.
This seems more like a matter of opinions than anything.
 
Like i said before, updates/sequels are the best opportunity for GF to bring back walking pokemon as the groundwork for the region, pokemon, and battle mechanics are already in place thus giving them less work and more time to work on a feature like walking pokemon.

Didn't seem to stop SMD from doing it despite having every Gen I-VI pokemon available.

This seems more like a matter of opinions than anything.
SMD is a spin-off game. Besides Game Freaks moves on to new mechanics and it is unlikely to return except for DP remakes for that area in Hearthome City.
 
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