Generation IV Remake Speculation

[Esserise]

Isn't GF indeed muddying up this so-called readily apparent, consistent, useful style of categorization with how they went from introducing incompatible new forms to completely new Pokemon? Especially since this generation thing was never something official nor cast in stone. I just think that holding on to our assumptions of what makes a generation is no longer useful since GF is doing almost everything to tear up this allegedly rule book the fans have been swearing by. So yes I accept that XY and SM are indeed of different generations, I just don't think arguments on what GF can or cannot do based on generation lines hold any more.

I agree with the last line of your post - GF can kind of do whatever they like in terms of adding new things for the second game in a generation, but that doesn't change the hard-coded transfer-based divisions between generations. Those are still distinct and still make it clear which is which.

(And yes, I know Gens 1 and 2 actually break that rule, but that was early days when they didn't have any sort of formal process nailed down. Those two generations are full of early-installment weirdness - I mean, a ton of the Pokémon that were introduced in Gen 2 were actually probably meant to have been introduced in Gen 1. They weren't even really expecting to make more Pokémon games after GS, or at least, they figured the franchise would just naturally fizzle out after then.)

 

[SerenaToAlola]

I agree with the last line of your post - GF can kind of do whatever they like in terms of adding new things for the second game in a generation, but that doesn't change the hard-coded transfer-based divisions between generations. Those are still distinct and still make it clear which is which.

Well then we basically agree then since that's something I conceded to. <3

 

[PurplePopplio]

Watch them add two new regions in one generation to muddy things further.

Also, Sinnoh remakes are going to look great on the Switch! (Hopefully.)

 

[Tuoko]

Especially since this generation thing was never something official nor cast in stone.

Nope, the term itself was adopted by Game Freak/Nintendo, so it is official. I recall Masuda referring to XY as the sixth generation on his blog, and there's also this: Pokémon Pearl for Nintendo DS - Nintendo Game Details

"...prove that the next generation of Pokémon games..."

I just think that holding on to our assumptions of what makes a generation is no longer useful since GF is doing almost everything to tear up this allegedly rule book the fans have been swearing by.

Eh... I'm not too sure on that. Aside from what @Esserise said there's also been things in all 6 Gens after the first - A whole new batch of Pokemon that includes a new group of starters and box mascots, new region, new characters, new story, etc. Sure they've broken the "no new Pokemon mid-gen" rule, but why throw out the whole concept of generations itself?

On the topic of new Pokemon in remakes, I can't really see it happening. Only exception I can see is the Original Dragon actually being a brand new species in Gen 5 remakes instead of another Kyurem form. Gen 4 remakes? Not so much, unless they decide to make a fusion of Dialga and Palkia like in Platinum or Adventures.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

Nope, the term itself was adopted by Game Freak/Nintendo, so it is official. I recall Masuda referring to XY as the sixth generation on his blog, and there's also this: Pokémon Pearl for Nintendo DS - Nintendo Game Details

"...prove that the next generation of Pokémon games..."

The examples you quoted are just use of "generation" as a noun. I would think that only the use of it as a proper noun (i.e. "Generation") counts as adoption of the term as a classification method for their portfolio of games.

Anyway the point is that GF can just do whatever they want. It's their world, their rules lol.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Iwao's mention of adopting DLC in future games ( here it is in case you haven't seen it How Pokémon Go helped shape the upcoming Ultra Sun and Moon on Nintendo 3DS) makes me think DP remakes will probably see similar updates as well. And this could be a good game for DLC since it has a lot of events and potential for story arcs that could make for worthwhile updates, I mean imagine if we get entire Delta Episode arcs out of things like the Darkrai or Shaymin events. At the same time though, this leaves me concerned that they'll try to make Platinum content DLC for this game, which while it would be an improvement on ORAS having no Emerald content, would still feel like somewhat of a ripoff.

 

[Ifni400]

I have mixed feelings about that. One part of me says it's a good way to expand content, the other says that Game Freak will be falling into a modern-day gaming trap.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

Isn't Mystery gift technically DLC? I mean while the data is already in there, you're still getting it outside of the game, albeit for free

Yeah I may have posted this on this thread before but I don't remember

 

[Bolt Strike]

Isn't Mystery gift technically DLC? I mean while the data is already in there, you're still getting it outside of the game, albeit for free

Yeah I may have posted this on this thread before but I don't remember

Technically yes, Mystery Gift is free on-disc DLC, but the type of DLC Iwao is referring to is different. Iwao is talking about using DLC to provide third version content instead of a separate game release like USUM. And that type of DLC can have very large implications for the series, implications that I don’t think will just be limited to the new generation games. Hence why I brought it up in this topic.

 

[Kallyle]

Iwao's mention of adopting DLC in future games ( here it is in case you haven't seen it How Pokémon Go helped shape the upcoming Ultra Sun and Moon on Nintendo 3DS) makes me think DP remakes will probably see similar updates as well. And this could be a good game for DLC since it has a lot of events and potential for story arcs that could make for worthwhile updates, I mean imagine if we get entire Delta Episode arcs out of things like the Darkrai or Shaymin events. At the same time though, this leaves me concerned that they'll try to make Platinum content DLC for this game, which while it would be an improvement on ORAS having no Emerald content, would still feel like somewhat of a ripoff.

Actually, I wouldn't view it as much of a ripoff: Game Freak thought they could get away with less content since they didn't think people would have time to appreciate everything that they would have put into the games in the first place. To them, the Frontier, Gym Leader rematches, and all the non-story content from Emerald was just fluff that they didn't think would be used by the majority of players. In other words, Game Freak viewed ORAS as "complete" without adding any new facilities or other Emerald content because they didn't think anyone wanted it.

Fortunately, Game Freak seems to be waking up to the idea of "hey, maybe we need more content and not just story and aesthetics" but might still want to focus on other things more than those extra features before release. If such extra content from Platinum and the Mythical events become available through DLC, not only does Game Freak have the chance to market such features and see if it's worth including in future games, but it also gives Game Freak more time to fully flesh out the content (or at least more time to finish it) compared to if these features were included at launch. This doesn't mean that Game Freak will end up handling it right, but there's at least some good potential with Game Freak going the DLC route.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Actually, I wouldn't view it as much of a ripoff: Game Freak thought they could get away with less content since they didn't think people would have time to appreciate everything that they would have put into the games in the first place. To them, the Frontier, Gym Leader rematches, and all the non-story content from Emerald was just fluff that they didn't think would be used by the majority of players. In other words, Game Freak viewed ORAS as "complete" without adding any new facilities or other Emerald content because they didn't think anyone wanted it.

Fortunately, Game Freak seems to be waking up to the idea of "hey, maybe we need more content and not just story and aesthetics" but might still want to focus on other things more than those extra features before release. If such extra content from Platinum and the Mythical events become available through DLC, not only does Game Freak have the chance to market such features and see if it's worth including in future games, but it also gives Game Freak more time to fully flesh out the content (or at least more time to finish it) compared to if these features were included at launch. This doesn't mean that Game Freak will end up handling it right, but there's at least some good potential with Game Freak going the DLC route.

Well yeah, if they want to go that route it actually makes some sense and I wouldn't really fault them as much if that was the route they wanted to take, but I'd prefer the base game include all of the original content. At the very least they need to include the Sinnoh Dex (as dex expansions won't really work as well through DLC since most of the hardcore fans will have beaten the game at that point), and maybe Giratina's story because things might get messy if they try to lock Giratina's arc to DLC (how will they handle letting you catch Giratina? Will they lock Giratina's capture to DLC? Will they come up with some convoluted way to include in the storyline after you've captured it). I wouldn't mind the Battle Frontier being DLC though, and I can see them attempting to sell it as DLC to gauge how popular it really is.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

Just curious but how did the Arceus/Shaymin event work? Anyone has vids?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

 

[Bolt Strike]

Just curious but how did the Arceus/Shaymin event work? Anyone has vids?

For Shaymin, after you get the Oak's Letter you go to Rt. 224 where you find Prof. Oak. He tells you the white rock there responds to feelings of gratitude and asks you to write the name of who you're most thankful for. When you do, it opens a path to Flower Paradise where you can catch Shaymin.

For Arceus, you go to Spear Pillar with the Azure Flute and then when you step on this one tile near the entrance it prompts you to play the Azure Flute. When you do, a set of stairs appears and takes you to a new area high above Spear Pillar called Hall of Origin where you can catch Arceus.

None of the 4th gen events were really much of anything special, you get a Macguffin to trigger the event, a short sequence happens that opens up a small area with the event legendary. There's real potential to expand on this with DLC though, all of these events tie into other parts of the story and they could turn then into full story arcs. Darkrai could be a direct antagonist causing nightmares in Canalave City. Marley could be more involved in the Shaymin event. Arceus could get involved with Dialga/Palkia/Giratina's affairs and end up being a target of Team Galactic. They can really make these events into something more.

 

[Gengarzilla]

I really don't like DLC discussions. The idea of downloadable content for games always makes me worry that game developers will use it as an excuse to make lackluster base products that aren't worth their advertised prices. It'd feel like paying for some big mega whopper of a cheeseburger and only getting a few sesame seeds from on top.

Basically, my stubborn belief is that DLC devalues the content you initially purchase. I hope GF exercises restraint if they take this route with any of the main series. At least make the expansions free is what I'd prefer.

 

[IncineROAR]

I really don't like DLC discussions. The idea of downloadable content for games always makes me worry that game developers will use it as an excuse to make lackluster base products that aren't worth their advertised prices. It'd feel like paying for some big mega whopper of a cheeseburger and only getting a few sesame seeds from on top.

Basically, my stubborn belief is that DLC devalues the content you initially purchase. I hope GF exercises restraint if they take this route with any of the main series. At least make the expansions free is what I'd prefer.

I am all for DLC, but DLC that maybe modifies or adds to in game battle facilities, post-game content, and other side game sort of stuff. I wouldn't want DLC that changes the main story.

Also, I want Gen IV remakes on the Switch before a new generation. I know not going to happen, but one can dream.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

For Shaymin, after you get the Oak's Letter you go to Rt. 224 where you find Prof. Oak. He tells you the white rock there responds to feelings of gratitude and asks you to write the name of who you're most thankful for. When you do, it opens a path to Flower Paradise where you can catch Shaymin.

For Arceus, you go to Spear Pillar with the Azure Flute and then when you step on this one tile near the entrance it prompts you to play the Azure Flute. When you do, a set of stairs appears and takes you to a new area high above Spear Pillar called Hall of Origin where you can catch Arceus.

None of the 4th gen events were really much of anything special, you get a Macguffin to trigger the event, a short sequence happens that opens up a small area with the event legendary. There's real potential to expand on this with DLC though, all of these events tie into other parts of the story and they could turn then into full story arcs. Darkrai could be a direct antagonist causing nightmares in Canalave City. Marley could be more involved in the Shaymin event. Arceus could get involved with Dialga/Palkia/Giratina's affairs and end up being a target of Team Galactic. They can really make these events into something more.

Thanks! They are pretty interesting but pretty underwhelming. If they were to do these events as DLC next time, I hope they put in a little of story telling into it.

 

[godiego]

The idea of downloadable content for games always makes me worry that game developers will use it as an excuse to make lackluster base products that aren't worth their advertised prices.

this is different from Game Freak's current MO....how?

 

[PartTimePokemonMaster]

this is different from Game Freak's current MO....how?

Touché

 

[SinnohEevee]

Since releasing Sinnoh remakes during Gen VIII will be predictable, Game Freak will opt to surprise us by releasing Digimon.