Generation IV Remake Speculation

[SerenaToAlola]

You know what? Screw it. I'm going to expand it to 500. And because a certain someone is concerned about the distribution, I'll give the encounter methods too.

Spoiler

Pidgey/Pidgeotto/Pidgeot- Rt. 229
Rattata/Raticate- Rt. 225, Rt. 226
Spearow/Fearow- Rt. 225, Rt. 226
Ekans/Arbok- Rt. 212S (Pokeradar)
Igglybuff/Jigglypuff/Wigglytuff- Trophy Garden
Oddish/Gloom/Vileplume/Bellossom- Rt. 230
Paras/Parasect- Great Marsh
Venonat/Venomoth- Rt. 229
Meowth/Persian- Trophy Garden
Bellsprout/Weepinbell/Victreebel- Rt. 230
Krabby/Kingler- Rt. 226
Voltorb/Electrode- Fuego Ironworks
Exeggcute/Exeggutor- Rt. 230
Cubone/Marowak- Rt. 228
Koffing/Weezing- Fuego Ironworks
Smoochum/Jynx- Snowpoint Temple
Pinsir- Rt. 229
Tauros- Rt. 210S (Pokeradar)
Lapras- Victory Road (post game area)
Ditto- Rt. 218
Omanyte/Omastar- Sinnoh Underground
Kabuto/Kabutops- Sinnoh Underground
Aerodactyl- Sinnoh Underground
Articuno/Zapdos/Moltres- roaming legendaries
Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite- Celestic Town
Chikorita/Bayleef/Meganium- Gift post game (maybe from the Hiker in Hearthome)
Cyndaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion- Gift post game (maybe from the Hiker in Hearthome)
Totodile/Croconaw/Feraligatr- Gift post game (maybe from the Hiker in Hearthome)
Ledyba/Ledian- Rt. 229
Spinarak/Ariados- Rt. 229
Natu/Xatu- Rt. 211E (Pokeradar)
Hoppip/Skiploom/Jumpluff- Rt. 205 (Pokeradar)
Mareep/Flaafy/Ampharos- Valley Windworks (Pokeradar)
Sunkern/Sunflora- Rt. 204N (Pokeradar)
Snubbull/Granbull- Trophy Garden
Slugma/Magcargo- Stark Mountain Interior
Skarmory- Rt. 227, Stark Mountain Exterior
Smeargle- Rt. 209 (Pokeradar)
Miltank- Rt. 210S (Pokeradar)
Celebi- Event Pokemon
Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile- Gift post game
Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken- Gift post game
Mudkip/Marshtomp/Swampert- Gift post game
Shroomish/Breloom- Great Marsh
Skitty/Delcatty- Trophy Garden
Sableye- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Mawile- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Aron/Lairon/Aggron- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Gulpin/Swalot- Great Marsh
Volbeat/Illumise- Rt. 229
Numel/Camerupt- Stark Mountain Exterior, Stark Mountain Interior
Lunatone/Solrock- Lake Verity, Lake Valor, Lake Acuity (Pokeradar)
Trapinch/Vibrava/Flygon- Rt. 228
Cacnea/Cacturne- Rt. 228
Lileep/Cradily- Sinnoh Underground
Anorith/Armaldo- Sinnoh Underground
Kecleon- Great Marsh
Shuppet/Banette- Rt. 225, Rt. 226
Spheal/Sealeo/Walrein- Lake Acuity (Pokeradar)
Bagon/Shelgon/Salamence- Rt. 210N (Pokeradar)
Regirock- Rock Peak Ruins
Regice- Iceberg Ruins
Registeel- Iron Head Ruins
Jirachi- Event Pokemon
Deoxys- Event Pokemon
Regigigas- Snowpoint Temple
Heatran- Stark Mountain
Cresselia- Full Moon Island
Phione- Breed Manaphy
Darkrai- New Moon Island
Shaymin- Flower Paradise
Arceus- Beginning Dimension
Snivy/Servine/Serperior- Gift Pokemon
Tepig/Pignite/Emboar- Gift Pokemon
Oshawott/Dewott/Samurott- Gift Pokemon
Purrloin/Liepard- Old Chateau (Pokeradar)
Roggenrola/Boldore/Gigalith- Oreburgh Gate, Ravaged Path (Pokeradar)
Drillbur/Excadrill- Oreburgh Mine, Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Audino- Trophy Garden
Timburr/Gurdurr/Conkeldurr- Oreburgh Mine, Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Tympole/Palpitoad/Seismitoad- Rt. 212S (Pokeradar)
Cottonee/Whimsicott- Rt. 224
Petilil/Lilligant- Rt. 224
Darumaka/Darmanitan- Stark Mountain
Dwebble/Crustle- Rt. 224
Yamask/Cofagrigus- Turnback Cave
Tirtouga/Carracosta- Sinnoh Underground
Archen/Archeops- Sinnoh Underground
Zorua/Zoroark- Old Chateau (Pokeradar)
Foongus/Amoonguss- Great Marsh
Karrablast/Escavalier- Great Marsh
Frillish/Jellicent- Sendoff Spring (Surfing)
Axew/Fraxure/Haxorus- Oreburgh Gate, Ravaged Path (Pokeradar)
Klink/Klang/Klinklang- Fuego Ironworks (Pokeradar)
Litwick/Lampent/Chandelure- Turnback Cave
Elgyem/Beheeyem- Rt. 211E (Pokeradar
Cubchoo/Beartic- Rt. 216, Rt. 217, Acuity Lakefront (Pokeradar)
Crygonoal- Rt. 216, Rt. 217, Acuity Lakefront (Pokeradar)
Shelmet/Accelgor- Great Marsh
Stunfisk- Great Marsh
Golett/Golurk- Snowpoint Temple
Druddigon- Victory Road (post game area)
Rufflet/Braviary- Rt. 226
Vullaby/Mandibuzz- Rt. 226
Heatmor- Stark Mountain Exterior
Durant- Stark Mountain Extreior
Larvesta/Volcarona- Stark Mountain Exterior (Pokeradar)
Reshiram/Zekrom- Celestic Town
Kyurem- Mt. Coronet
Bunnelby/Diggersby- Oreburgh Gate, Ravaged Path (Pokeradar)
Fletchling/Fletchinder/Talonflame- Rt. 227
Litleo/Pyroar- Rt. 211W, Rt.211E (Pokeradar)
Flabebe/Floette/Florges- Floaroma Meadow (overworld encounter post game)
Furfrou- Trophy Garden
Skiddo/Gogoat- Rt. 210S, Rt. 210N (Pokeradar)
Helioptile/Heliolisk- Valley Windworks (Pokeradar)
Tyrunt/Tyrantrum- Sinnoh Underground
Amaura/Aurorus- Sinnoh Underground
Binacle/Barbaracle- Rt. 224
Carbink- Iron Island (Pokeradar)
Phantump/Trevenant- Eterna Forest (Pokeradar)
Goomy/Sliggoo/Goodra- Rt. 212S (Pokeradar)
Noibat/Noivern- Victory Road (post game area)
Diancie- Event Pokemon
Hoopa- Event Pokemon
Volcanion- Event Pokemon
Cutiefly/Ribombee- Rt. 205 (Pokeradar)
Crabrawler/Crabominable- Rt. 226
Rockruff/Lycanroc- Rt. 214 (Pokeradar)
Salandit/Salazzle- Stark Mountain Interior
Stufful/Bewear- Trophy Garden
Passimian- Rt. 229
Oranguru- Rt. 229
Sandygast/Palossand- Rt. 213 (Pokeradar)
Type:Null/Silvally- Gift from Saturn post game
Minior- Mt. Coronet (Pokeradar)
Mimikyu- Old Chateau (Pokeradar)
Drampa- Mt. Coronet (Pokeradar)
Cosmog/Cosmoem/Solgaleo/Lunala- Spear Pillar
Nihilego- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 213
Buzzwole- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 225
Pheromosa- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 228
Xurkitree- Ultra Wormhole in Valley Windworks
Kartana- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 224
Celesteela- Ultra Wormhole in Fuego Ironworks
Guzzlord- Ultra Wormhole in Ravaged Path
Necrozma- Spear Pillar after bringing Solgaleo or Lunala
Poipole/Nagadel- Gift from Ultra Recon Squad
Blacephalon- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 209
Stakataka- Ultra Wormhole in Rt. 212N

Thank you so much for not forgetting ultra beasts. I trust you with a pokemon game more than I trust whoever's working on SwSh!

 

[Kallyle]

This whole Dexit thing has certainly led to a roadblock in terms of the possible Pokémon for Sinnoh's regional Pokédex, and this isn't even getting into whether or not Game Freak uses the original DP Pokédex of only 151 (with a good portion of Sinnoh natives being locked out of it) or Platinum's updated number of 210 (which still excludes most of its Legendaries & Mythicals). At the very minimum, we should get the post-Dexit Sinnoh Regional Pokédex @RileyXY1 suggested:

In terms of regional dex additions, I only think that they would add the 7 Sinnoh legendaries that weren't in the Platinum Sinnoh dex (Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus), Sylveon, the Regis (you need them in order to get Regigigas), and Ditto (it is needed in order to obtain Phione).

This would give us a total of 222 Pokémon to play around with. However, as pointed out by @Bolt the Cat, all of the Pokémon put into the game (even the post-game exclusive ones) have to be in the Sinnoh dex under Game Freak's new policy. This has led to a back and forth debating the pros and cons and feasibility of expanding the Sinnoh's regional Pokédex beyond Platinum + Riley's additions among the forum members (not just these two). To avoid making this post too long, I'll put the reasonings for and against a larger Sinnoh dex expansion in spoiler tags to shave off a few paragraphs.

Spoiler: Points Against a Larger Sinnoh Dex Expansion

• Sinnoh wasn't designed with a large regional Pokédex in mind, so making it too big without redesigning Sinnoh would make the Pokédex feel bloated.
• Just because certain Pokémon were available through methods like swarm, PokéRadar, and the Trophy Garden for the post-game in DPPt doesn't guarantee that they'll be available for use in the remakes.
• Some features like the PokéRadar might not return since it would clash with the current trend of seeing Pokémon in the overworld, and certain post-game areas might not make an appearance in the remakes.
• Players might not want Game Freak to just shove a bunch of Pokémon in the Sinnoh remakes just to compensate for Dexit because it could end up feeling forced.

Spoiler: Points In Favor of a Larger Sinnoh Dex Expansion

• Platinum's regional Pokédex is too small for a modern-day regional Pokédex, especially when Game Freak's policy specifies that the Pokémon has to be in the regional Pokédex to even be used in the games.
• Under the assumption of certain post-game areas returning, what would Game Freak do with them without an expanded regional Pokédex? Filling them with the same Pokémon as the main game wouldn't give players a lot of incentive to checkout these new areas.
• It would disappoint many Sinnoh fans if the amount of Pokémon they can use in the DPPt remakes is even smaller in comparison to the amount of Pokémon usable in DPPt itself, especially if there isn't enough content in these games to compensate for it. The games would only be worth it for the nostalgia value like LGPE ended up being, which was a very common criticism for the latter set of games.

Given all of the points for and against a larger Sinnoh Pokéde expansion, what's the best way for Game Freak address the Sinnoh Pokédex issue without it feeling forced? Well my friends, I believe that said middle ground would be to add new species of Pokémon to the Sinnoh remakes. Now, before you say that Game Freak can't add new Pokémon to a remake game, not only did they do so with LGPE (thought it was only a Mythical evolutionary line) but USUM (the "third version" of the Alola games) also added new species mid-generation. Thus, getting new Pokémon in the Sinnoh remakes isn't off the table, though the chances of it happening are still low.

Now, why exactly do I view new Pokémon in a remake as a good idea? Wouldn’t it overshadow the Pokémon introduced back in Diamond & Pearl? Not necessarily. The goal here is to keep the games from relying solely on the nostalgia factor to sell themselves, which was a major problem in LGPE. Not only that, but these new species appearing in Sinnoh could be a plot point in itself, introducing a new mystery of “how did these guys get here?” which would fit a region of mysterious and myths.

In fact, here’s some guidelines that I find feasible for new Sinnoh Pokémon:

• The amount introduced should be somewhere between 20-30 new species since there’s still plenty of Sinnoh native Pokémon to choose from.
• They should be more common than the Pokémon not introduced in Gen IV, but less common than those who debuted in Gen IV. This would help strike a balance between new and old Sinnoh Pokémon while not having to worry about being overtaken by Pokémon like Geodude and Zubat.
• Give an explanation as to why these new species pop up here in the remakes but didn’t show up back in DPPt; older fans are going to want to know this. Maybe tie them into the Distortion World or some sort of ancient seal that ends up breaking.

Of course, there will need to be some Pokémon omitted from Bolt the Cat’s list to accommodate the new species and to keep the Pokédex from becoming bloated. However, I think that this idea would help make the Sinnoh Pokédex expansion seem more natural.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Given all of the points for and against a larger Sinnoh Pokéde expansion, what's the best way for Game Freak address the Sinnoh Pokédex issue without it feeling forced? Well my friends, I believe that said middle ground would be to add new species of Pokémon to the Sinnoh remakes.

This will do nothing to solve the new issue- that every new Pokemon added in favour of an older one means a scrapped favourite. Only Pokemon in the Sinnoh dex will be the only Pokemon in game, period, and that’s a issue that needs to be kept in mind before making suggestions.

People would prefer older Pokemon being allowed to be transferred (and thus not be entirely locked out of Gen 7) than newer ones.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Diamond and Pearl Remake could have something similar to ORAS where the Legendaries would have a special new form, like a Gigantomax Form for Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (Origin and Altered) Arceus and others.

If Sword and Shield will be focusing on Dynamaxing, then perhaps the Gen 4 Remakes will focus on Gigantomaxing.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Gigantomax Form for Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (Origin and Altered) Arceus and others.

no thanks

 

[Poke Dragon]

It's entirely possible for both Dynamax and Gigantamax to be covered in detail in Sword and Shield. That would remove the need to give any Sinnoh mascot legendary a Gigantamax forms.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

It's entirely possible for both Dynamax and Gigantamax to be covered in detail in Sword and Shield. That would remove the need to give any Sinnoh mascot legendary a Gigantamax forms.

They gave Megas and Primals to ORAS though to tie into XY, so the same could happen for the Gen 4 Remake to tie in with SwSh.

 

[Poke Dragon]

They gave Megas and Primals to ORAS though to tie into XY, so the same could happen for the Gen 4 Remake to tie in with SwSh.

But that doesn't mean that Dialga and Palkia should get Gigantamax forms, I prefer they get something different from them. They can still get a non-gigantamax form and still influence it lore wise.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Besides, the creation trio is so big and complex already that it’ll look awkward in Gigantamax form. I think the remakes are more likely to revisit the wormhole stuff more than the Gigantamax one.

 

[Kallyle]

This will do nothing to solve the new issue- that every new Pokemon added in favour of an older one means a scrapped favourite. Only Pokemon in the Sinnoh dex will be the only Pokemon in game, period, and that’s a issue that needs to be kept in mind before making suggestions.

People would prefer older Pokemon being allowed to be transferred (and thus not be entirely locked out of Gen 7) than newer ones.

It’s not supposed to be an answer to Dexit; what I’m trying to say is that the Sinnoh Pokédex can have a natural expansion that doesn’t need to shove in a bunch of old Pokémon just to compensate for the lack of a National Dex. This idea of mine is supposed to be a more realistic approach to the Sinnoh Dex rather than something that reverses Game Freak’s poor decision-making.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

It’s not supposed to be an answer to Dexit; what I’m trying to say is that the Sinnoh Pokédex can have a natural expansion that doesn’t need to shove in a bunch of old Pokémon just to compensate for the lack of a National Dex. This idea of mine is supposed to be a more realistic approach to the Sinnoh Dex rather than something that reverses Game Freak’s poor decision-making.

The point I'm illustrating is that the 'natural extension' is mostly meaningless unless it includes older Pokémon, since that’s the entire reason @Bolt the Cat and others are suggesting highly significant Dex increases.

Besides, not being in the Sinnoh Dex means that the Pokémon will be most likely locked out of Generation 8, which shouldn’t happen.

 

[Kallyle]

The point I'm illustrating is that the 'natural extension' is mostly meaningless unless it includes older Pokémon, since that’s the entire reason @Bolt the Cat and others are suggesting highly significant Dex increases.

Besides, not being in the Sinnoh Dex means that the Pokémon will be most likely locked out of Generation 8, which shouldn’t happen.

I’m not saying that the older Pokémon shouldn’t be included, just that Sinnoh doesn’t need to focus on fixing Dexit. As much as I like Bolt the Cat’s list, I just don’t expect Game Freak to go that far with their expansion to compensate for a policy they have no intention of revoking as of the present.

 

[RileyXY1]

I’m not saying that the older Pokémon shouldn’t be included, just that Sinnoh doesn’t need to focus on fixing Dexit. As much as I like Bolt the Cat’s list, I just don’t expect Game Freak to go that far with their expansion to compensate for a policy they have no intention of revoking as of the present.

Especially considering the fact that any Pokemon not in the Galar Dex can't be traded into Sword & Shield, so there is no reason to include every Pokemon in a generation anymore except to please the fanbase.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Especially considering the fact that any Pokemon not in the Galar Dex can't be traded into Sword & Shield, so there is no reason to include every Pokemon in a generation anymore except to please the fanbase.

tbh, I think they should end the Pokemon count to 1000 and call it a day. Wishful thinking, Gen 8 should have a total of 190 Pokemon in all.

 

[El_]

They gave Megas and Primals to ORAS though to tie into XY, so the same could happen for the Gen 4 Remake to tie in with SwSh.

If the leaks are true, then

Spoiler

Eternatus is to Dyna/Giga what Rayquaza was to Megas.

The creation trio could get "big" formes, but I'd imagine it would have less to do with Galar lore and more to do with exerting godlike power. In other words, more for "spectacle" purposes than anything else. Tbf, they are suppose to be Poke'Gods, so I understand why they at least would deserve that kind of presentation.

But, by the same measure, "gods" are whatever the plot needs them to be. They could receive smaller forms, or formes so big they stretch across time & space and can't be comprehended.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

If the leaks are true, then

Spoiler

Eternatus is to Dyna/Giga what Rayquaza was to Megas.

The creation trio could get "big" formes, but I'd imagine it would have less to do with Galar lore and more to do with exerting godlike power. In other words, more for "spectacle" purposes than anything else. Tbf, they are suppose to be Poke'Gods, so I understand why they at least would deserve that kind of presentation.

But, by the same measure, "gods" are whatever the plot needs them to be. They could receive smaller forms, or formes so big they stretch across time & space and can't be comprehended.

Yeah, what do we expect for a Gen 4 remake. Galar would have some reference in some shape or form, just like one of the cities in Hoenn is twinned with the main city in Kalos. If Cynthia's house is revealed to be in Galar, then at the Villa, perhaps she would give a slight hint to Galar of where her house is located.

 

[BackSet]

Gigantomax Form for Dialga, Palkia, Giratina (Origin and Altered) Arceus and others.

Absolutely not!

and Primals

Exactly. Primals weren't a thing for anything but Kyogre and Groudon. Give Dialga and Palkia their own thing (or have them have origin forms and share that with Giritina.)

 

[prog rocker]

Exactly. Primals weren't a thing for anything but Kyogre and Groudon. Give Dialga and Palkia their own thing (or have them have origin forms and share that with Giritina.)

Well, Primal Reversion was exactly like Mega Evolution in everything but name, so not exactly unique.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Well, Primal Reversion was exactly like Mega Evolution in everything but name, so not exactly unique.

The gimmick for Gen 4 Remake will most definitely be 'A' form of Gigantomaxing for Dialga, Palkia and Giratina.

 

[Bolt Strike]

@Kallyle I didn't account for the possibility of new Pokemon and that's a very realistic possibility, but it's unlikely they'll include 20-30. USUM and LGPE, but it was only a handful of them (5 and 2 respectively). I don't expect DP remakes to change that, the number of new Pokemon introduced will also probably be negligible. Yeah, they might bump a few off my list, but probably not many.

Honestly, the arguments against are pretty flimsy. The idea that Sinnoh can't accommodate a large amount of Pokemon is ridiculous when it has one of the most areas of any region in the series, and if they can't implement some of the methods they used before (they can't bring back the dongle method anyway, so that's already one down), they can always come up with something new. Game Freak seems to come up with the Pokemon they want in the game first and then they come up with the encounter method, not the other way around. If you're going to argue against a large scale expansion it should be based on why you think they'd think 200some Pokemon is enough for people to play around with in this game. And considering nearly every Pokemon game since 4th gen has had at least 400 Pokemon in it, that's a tough argument to make. LGPE got away with only having 150 because of nostalgia, but Sinnoh can't do that because the original games already had 440+ Pokemon. Beyond that, the smallest roster since the originals was SM, which was just short of 400 anyway. So it's hard to imagine that Game Freak would just give us little more than the original dex.