Generation IV Remake Speculation

[Jimothy]

Something that no one ever seems to acknowledge when coming up with remake names is that past remake titles aren't really adjectives of or in any way modifying the original name, and they always feel like they could stand alone-- it's not SparklingGold or ShiningSapphire or something, it's HeartGold and AlphaSapphire, essentially feels like two titles mashed into one-- HGSS functionally might as well be Heart version and Soul version, ditto for hypothetical Omega and Alpha versions.

Similarly, folks are always suggesting something like TimeDiamond and SpacePearl, but we didn't get LandRuby and SeaSapphire. I think they'd be a little more... flowery, yes, but also a little more standalone from the themes of the original games. There's nothing about GS that would make you guess Heart and Soul, even if it kind of makes sense in retrospect with the games' vague spirituality. And while RS are about both the ancient world and a potential apocalypse of sorts, Omega and Alpha are fairly out of left field.

Of course all of this goes out the window if they do something different from a traditional remake (such as the suggested BlackDiamond/WhitePearl or something like HeartDiamond/SoulPearl or whatever). Heck, I'm expecting something different if not this time, then next-- something like PerfectBlack/PerfectWhite (to signify that they've combined the content of BW 1+2).

 

[blitzle stan]

That’s a very good point... the titles always sound right even without the original parts to them (Fire/Leaf, Heart/Soul, Alpha/Omega). They’ve never been adjectives.

Dawn/Dusk continue to make the most sense as a stand-alone pair and thematically with the typical world-ending plot (and sound great with Diamond/Pearl) but weren’t there mystery dungeon games with that theme? I’m at a loss for other pairs that could work. I love thinking about it though.

 

[Jimothy]

I think you're thinking of the Mystery Dungeon games Explorers of Darkness and Explorers of Time?

The thing I usually see cited as the reason we won't get Dawn/Dusk is because there was a paired version Digimon game back in the day that used them.

Personally, I doubt Dawn/Dusk because I think USUM were our Dawn/Dusk games, but those titles couldn't be used because it would confuse consumers to switch the branding so radically. It's conjecture, but Dusk Mane/Dawn Wings as the box mascots gives me the sense that that was the intention at some point.

The big pair that they haven't done yet that I'm waiting for is East/West (probably with North and South as DLC packs at this point), but I don't think those would be used as part of a remake title, even if it kind of fits with Sinnoh being split between east and west. I think they're saving cardinal directions for a future gen.

 

[SlowGinFizzzz]

Something that no one ever seems to acknowledge when coming up with remake names is that past remake titles aren't really adjectives of or in any way modifying the original name, and they always feel like they could stand alone-- it's not SparklingGold or ShiningSapphire or something, it's HeartGold and AlphaSapphire, essentially feels like two titles mashed into one-- HGSS functionally might as well be Heart version and Soul version, ditto for hypothetical Omega and Alpha versions.

Similarly, folks are always suggesting something like TimeDiamond and SpacePearl, but we didn't get LandRuby and SeaSapphire. I think they'd be a little more... flowery, yes, but also a little more standalone from the themes of the original games. There's nothing about GS that would make you guess Heart and Soul, even if it kind of makes sense in retrospect with the games' vague spirituality. And while RS are about both the ancient world and a potential apocalypse of sorts, Omega and Alpha are fairly out of left field.

Of course all of this goes out the window if they do something different from a traditional remake (such as the suggested BlackDiamond/WhitePearl or something like HeartDiamond/SoulPearl or whatever). Heck, I'm expecting something different if not this time, then next-- something like PerfectBlack/PerfectWhite (to signify that they've combined the content of BW 1+2).

You've raised some excellent points here. I think names such as "Temporal Diamond/Spatial Pearl" are extremely unlikely. Another aspect that I think people here often don't consider is that the names need to work in all languages.

Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby were great picks because the Greek letters Alpha and Omega (and the concept of beginning and end they are connected to) are well known pretty much everywhere and they didn't need to worry about translations, so they just added them to the original titles (Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, Omega Rubin/Alpha Saphir, Rubis Oméga/Saphir Alpha, Rubino Omega/Zaffiro Alpha etc.)

The names HeartGold and SoulSilver were, interestingly, not translated in non-English-speaking regions, and instead almost used like a brand name: Goldene Edition HeartGold/Silberne Edition SoulSilver, Version Or HeartGold/Version Argent SoulSilver, Versione Oro HeartGold/Versione Argento SoulSilver etc. I would argue that this decision was made to facilitate the promotion of the games and because the concept of ~heart and soul~ is a pretty common one regardless of language, and also because the English words "heart" and "soul" are relatively well known even in non-English-speaking countries.

FireRed and LeafGreen were the only remakes so far that got "properly" translated titles, but that only worked because "fire red" (or "feuerrot" etc.) and – although to a lesser extent – "leaf green" (or "blattgrün" etc.) already existed as specific colour descriptions way before these games came along.

So yeah, I can't imagine them just adding adjectives like "temporal" and "spatial" to Diamond and Pearl, not only would these titles have to be translated into dozens of different languages and therefore destroy any chance of having a somewhat standardised title across the world (like with Alpha/Omega and HeartGold/SoulSilver), but it would also be a much too obvious reference to the time/space trope of the cover legends. The previous "additions" to the titles were all rather loosely – if at all – connected to the games. And frankly, "Temporal Diamond" and "Spatial Pearl" sound clunky as hell and don't roll off the tongue nicely at all, so I really don't know why fans keep bringing them up.

My guess is that either they'll manage to come up with another well known concept like heart and soul, Alpha and Omega etc. that they can incorporate into the title (although I can't quite think of any myself... Perhaps something like light and dark?) or they'll just ditch these kind of names altogether. As we've seen with Link's Awakening, remakes don't necessarily need a sparkly new title, or even a new title at all.

 

[Kallyle]

If we’re not doing adjectives, I’m going to throw out the names Clock Diamond and Ruler Pearl. A clock is obviously a tool to measure the time, while a ruler measures the spatial dimensions of an object (length or width). Both still fit the theme of the games, but they aren’t adjectives either as the tools are nouns.

 

[BackSet]

They're not any worse than some of the other fan names out there.

 

[blitzle stan]

I think you're thinking of the Mystery Dungeon games Explorers of Darkness and Explorers of Time?

The thing I usually see cited as the reason we won't get Dawn/Dusk is because there was a paired version Digimon game back in the day that used them.

Oh wow, I was thinking of the Digimon games! That’s funny. This point plus your point about Dawn Wings / Dusk Mane do make these titles a less likely. They’re at a point, though, where ideas are getting used in different ways... everyone though of Solrock and Lunatone with SM, Aegislash with SwSh. They’re not legendary, but I guess the point I’m making is that anything they choose will make people think of something they’ve already done at this point.

Solid Diamond / Liquid Pearl is something I just thought of that would play off the existing ideas behind the legend types in a nice way, I think.

 

[Minya_Nouvelle]

I've given it some thought, and something occurred to me. I don't think the Alpha and Omega for Sapphire and Ruby are just because the names would be uniform for every region. I'm not sure if this is something that matters considering the main names are usually translated. The names would just have to be something easily understood by Japanese speakers because I'm pretty sure the game titles always use the katakana of the English word.

I think it is more than just coincidence that the prefix for the remakes AND the names of core Gen 6 games both use letters; albeit from different alphabets. They did (loosely) connect ORAS to XY storywise, so maybe they used alpha and omega to sort of symbolize that connection.

The Diamond/Pearl remakes could do something similar and choose names that relate to gen 8 or maybe even gen 7. Something like Royal Diamond and Divine Pearl

Edit: also, it is probably a reach, but heart and soul are words that are sometimes used in place of spirit which was a big topic of gen 4

The only thing I could come up with beyond your list is something like Deep Diamond and Vast Pearl, but IDK. The whole “long and wide” theme with time and space, but with better sounding words than long and wide. Lol

I kind of like Vast Diamond and Void Pearl

 

[RK9]

Temporal Diamond and Spatial Pearl.

And Phantom Platinum.

 

[Esserise]

And frankly, "Temporal Diamond" and "Spatial Pearl" sound clunky as hell and don't roll off the tongue nicely at all, so I really don't know why fans keep bringing them up.

And they're not exactly inspired. It'd be like if they'd named the Hoenn remakes “Terrestrial Ruby” and “Marine Sapphire” (or if I were to be extremely literal, since Temporal and Spatial also happen to be Dialga and Palkia's respective species classifications, “Continent Ruby” and “Sea Basin Sapphire,” lol). It's just identifying the cover mascot's domain of the world and slapping a word that means that in front of the original title. Omega and Alpha were a more thematic choice, gesturing more at the idea of beginning and ending, and didn't really have anything to do with Groudon and Kyogre specifically.

My guess is that either they'll manage to come up with another well known concept like heart and soul, Alpha and Omega etc. that they can incorporate into the title (although I can't quite think of any myself... Perhaps something like light and dark?) or they'll just ditch these kind of names altogether. As we've seen with Link's Awakening, remakes don't necessarily need a sparkly new title, or even a new title at all.

An idea I keep coming back to in my head is that they could stop with the "prefix" convention and instead give them new one-world titles akin to the initial release pairs (like “Pokémon Time” and “Pokémon Space”, for a not-great example). But that would probably only work if the games changed a lot compared to the originals. If they're faithful remakes, then having Diamond and Pearl in the names is still going to help people more readily identify them as such. At any rate, I do agree with your assessment that they would likely want any prefixes to be generally universal in form. Light and Dark (or Shadow) is certainly one idea, if a bit predictable. Future and Past is a notion that I think could work, and one that I am frankly a little surprised hasn't emerged somewhere in the series yet. It might seem a little lopsided if you're hyper-focusing on Dialga being the time-related half of the pair, but I think it could gesture more generally at the concepts of history and progress, which are inherent in the idea of remakes - appreciating the past while bringing those ideas forward into the modern day.

Actually, what if they shifted from the “prefix” format to something with a little more grandeur? For instance, “Pokémon: Diamond of the Future” and “Pokémon: Pearl of the Past”? That could feel snappy and fresh, and there is now some loose precedent for giving remakes more elaborate titles, with “Pokémon: Let’s Go, Pikachu!” and “Pokémon: Let’s Go, Eevee!”. I mean, if people can handle “The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild”...

 

[Minya_Nouvelle]

I can't see the titles having pronouns or prepositions. Even "Let's Go" was written in Katakana. I definitely could see them dropping the prefix format and going with something different, though. I would imagine it would be something where both get the same addition like Diamond 0 and Pearl 0 (if they did prequels) or Diamond Adventure and Pearl Adventure (if they revamp the map and make it larger/more like the wild area; I think they would need titles that illustrate that). Both names are probably unlikely, but my brain won't come up with better ideas.

 

[Bolt Strike]

What the names are going to be is pretty low on the list of things I'm concerned about for this game. I couldn't care less if they call them Garbage Diamond and Recycling Pearl, if the game is good, I'm still going to play it. I mean, it's probably not, because they're not going to give it enough time in the oven like every Pokemon game since 2013, but still.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Inb4 there are no Sinnoh remakes.

 

[BackSet]

Why is there no dislike button?

 

[RK9]

Everyone discussing the names while I'm just sitting here thibking about re-designs and possible cameo's and added mini-plotlines.

 

[BackSet]

I would like to see the character redesigns. If I remember correctly, Cynthia didn't get a redesign at all for SM/USUM.

 

[prog rocker]

I would like to see the character redesigns. If I remember correctly, Cynthia didn't get a redesign at all for SM/USUM.

No. She just got a 3D model. I kinda feel they won't redesign her, but maybe they will do it for the other characters.

 

[BackSet]

I'm really curious about the player character redesigns.

 

[Phosphene]

I would like to see the character redesigns. If I remember correctly, Cynthia didn't get a redesign at all for SM/USUM.

She also wasn’t redesigned in gen 5 too, if I remember correctly. I wonder if that’s because those games weren’t remakes.

Are there any characters from Hoenn that made an appearance before ORAS? I’m curious to see if there are any design differences.

I'm really curious about the player character redesigns.

Me too, considering DPPt has some of my least favorite designs of the series. I’m hoping that the redesigns, if GameFreak does choose redesign them, are more appealing to me.

 

[prog rocker]

She also wasn’t redesigned in gen 5 too, if I remember correctly. I wonder if that’s because those games weren’t remakes.

Well, IIRC they reused her DPPt sprite there.