Generation IV Remake Speculation

[RileyXY1]

You're really desperate about not having a Gen 4 remake, huh?

The evidence would have been more convincing if the Sinnoh starters were the only starters missing from the game.

 

[Esserise]

I do think the potential overlap doesn't matter, because the games are not all about the legendaries, and some of its mythicals might be obtainable the same way Deoxys was in ORAS. But that's obviously just speculation on my part.

It's like you say, a major part of the appeal of remakes is the verisimilitude with the original overall gameplay experience. Not just the availability of specific poster child Pokémon, but also the region and the features and all of that. And yet, the way in which those Legendary Pokémon are obtained is itself part of the experience. So there's certainly a compelling argument that it is more important to faithfully recreate what players experienced when they first played DP despite the fact that a recent installment might have done something similar.

For me, it's just the overarching question of, "Would they have made the Regi quest and the Spiritomb quest in CT so similar if they already knew that DP remakes were in the works?" But I'm gradually feeling more inclined to say that yes, they would have. Not that I think they would be going out of their way to "hint" at anything, but I mean, in aggregate, a wave of DLC is still not equivalent to the overall gameplay experience that would be provided by the whole of Sinnoh, even if a specific segment or two is the same.

What may happen is that the Sinnoh Legendaries may get a new form.

This is also a worthwhile aspect to mention. At the very least, I like most people would expect that Dialga and Palkia would get new forms, which would definitely help to dispel any similarities with the typical ones that you can get through Dynamax Adventures.

 

[prog rocker]

The evidence would have been more convincing if the Sinnoh starters were the only starters missing from the game.

Not really. Remember that with the exception of both Kanto remakes, you have been able to get past starters in the remakes. So the other starters missing could perfectly be gifts in the remake.

 

[Esserise]

Not really. Remember that with the exception of both Kanto remakes, you have been able to get past starters in the remakes. So the other starters missing could perfectly be gifts in the remake.

Fantina would almost be the perfect person to hand out the Kalos Starters... but alas, she's not actually French in the original translation.

Jasmine could give away the Johto Starters, at least.

 

[SinnohEevee]

It's like you say, a major part of the appeal of remakes is the verisimilitude with the original overall gameplay experience. Not just the availability of specific poster child Pokémon, but also the region and the features and all of that. And yet, the way in which those Legendary Pokémon are obtained is itself part of the experience. So there's certainly a compelling argument that it is more important to faithfully recreate what players experienced when they first played DP despite the fact that a recent installment might have done something similar.

For me, it's just the overarching question of, "Would they have made the Regi quest and the Spiritomb quest in CT so similar if they already knew that DP remakes were in the works?" But I'm gradually feeling more inclined to say that yes, they would have. Not that I think they would be going out of their way to "hint" at anything, but I mean, in aggregate, a wave of DLC is still not equivalent to the overall gameplay experience that would be provided by the whole of Sinnoh, even if a specific segment or two is the same.

This is also a worthwhile aspect to mention. At the very least, I like most people would expect that Dialga and Palkia would get new forms, which would definitely help to dispel any similarities with the typical ones that you can get through Dynamax Adventures.

Plus, the way you will get them will be different. The creation trio are tied to the plot in Sinnoh.

 

[prog rocker]

Fantina would almost be the perfect person to hand out the Kalos Starters... but alas, she's not actually French in the original translation.

Jasmine could give away the Johto Starters, at least.

What about Sycamore? He studied under Rowan, right? Maybe he could be paying his old teacher a visit.

 

[RK9]

The evidence would have been more convincing if the Sinnoh starters were the only starters missing from the game.

Pretty much the entire fucking Sinnoh Pokédex is missing, my guy.

There is plenty evidence for remakes, even outside of the starters. Everywhere you go, you just try to act ignorant by ignoring them and cna't even argue your case.

Besides that. Sinnoh starters to begin with, get the Johto ones later with the gimmick incorporated like XY did for Kanto Starters. Other 2 sets through post-game.

GG.

 

[Tuoko]

I don't think so. Lucario is easily one of the most popular and marketable non Gen 1 mons.

We could've easily said the amount of Eevee attention back then was just because of its popularity. I don't think we should write it off when Pokeshopper brought up that the last time this happened was for Eevee in Gen 7, which lead into LGPE.

Except it wouldn't celebrate it properly, as it would only celebrate one piece of the franchise rather than all of it.

Why can't DP remakes celebrate the franchise as a whole? They can easily do that by giving various Pokemon between Gens 1-8 a variant, Mega, and/or Gigantamax.

I'm not expecting Megas to return/be expanded on personally, but them/Z-Moves being expanded would fit in line with the original games expanding on old features.

 

[RileyXY1]

We could've easily said the amount of Eevee attention back then was just because of its popularity. I don't think we should write it off when Pokeshopper brought up that the last time this happened was for Eevee in Gen 7, which lead into LGPE.




Why can't DP remakes celebrate the franchise as a whole? They can easily do that by giving various Pokemon between Gens 1-8 a variant, Mega, and/or Gigantamax.

I'm not expecting Megas to return/be expanded on personally, but them/Z-Moves being expanded would fit in line with the original games expanding on old features.

References to other games would feel out of place in Sinnoh, especially if its from later games, except Sword and Shield of course. ORAS didn't feature any references to any other games besides XY.

 

[prog rocker]

ORAS didn't feature any references to any other games besides XY.

They referenced Fennel and the Dream World, for example.

 

[Poke Dragon]

References to other games would feel out of place in Sinnoh, especially if its from later games, except Sword and Shield of course. ORAS didn't feature any references to any other games besides XY.

Actually, Unova was referenced with the character who introduced you to the Secret Base feature.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that the Johto, Unova, and Kalos starters will all be held off until Gen 9.

 

[prog rocker]

Actually, Unova was referenced with the character who introduced you to the Secret Base feature.

I forgot Aarune was from Unova, too.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Another reference not from X and Y is that the museum in ORAS has paintings of Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina.

 

[RileyXY1]

I just think that Sinnoh remakes are unfitting for the 25th anniversary and that Gen 9 would be a much better game to release.

 

[Esserise]

References to other games would feel out of place in Sinnoh, especially if its from later games, except Sword and Shield of course. ORAS didn't feature any references to any other games besides XY.

Well, that claim about references is just demonstrably incorrect. In addition to what's been said above, Spiritomb's quest at Sea Mauville references the Odd Keystone and the Oreburgh Mine, and a model of the Royal Unova was added to the Oceanic Museum, and Looker makes a cameo appearance, and the Mauville Food Court has a shop that references the sandwich caravan at Unova's Village Bridge. On top of that, lots of NPCs have their dialogue adjusted to at least passingly mention other regions; for instance, there's a Ruin Maniac on one route who mentions having come to Hoenn after studying Sinnoh's ruins.

But the first part of your post doesn't hold much water, either - while it may subjectively feel out of place to you, that didn't stop ORAS from folding in major elements from newer games (which you acknowledge by mentioning their references to XY), and nothing would stop DP remakes from doing the same now.

I just think that Sinnoh remakes are unfitting for the 25th anniversary and that Gen 9 would be a much better game to release.

Well the fact of the matter is that Gen 9 is extremely unlikely to come out next year, so having that coincide with the 25th anniversary just doesn't seem possible. Therefore, if they want to do something for the anniversary, then it has to be something feasible - i.e. another Gen 8 game (and what else could that realistically be other than DP remakes?), or Let's Go Johto I guess, although I personally think the time for those have passed; LGPE were an interesting experiment but GF got what they needed from it and I can only assume they'd prefer to release a game that continues the Gen 8 metagame rather than bifurcating it into a "proper" one hosted by SwSh and a far more niche and limited one hosted by a modest GO-themed Johto remake trying to prove itself years after the GO zeitgeist has subsided.

On top of that, next year is just as much DP's 15th anniversary as it is the franchise's 25th, so it's not as if DP can't formulate a claim to relevance. As has been said by AngryBinacle, the other arms of the franchise can easily handle representing the non-Sinnoh stuff. If they want to celebrate the 25th, then they can launch another multimedia blitz, but even that would only be further strengthened by the presence of an upcoming core series title, regardless of what the setting of that core title actually is.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I just think that Sinnoh remakes are unfitting for the 25th anniversary and that Gen 9 would be a much better game to release.

You don't need to keep repeating yourself.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Now with Dexit it's a little bit more obvious not to include all of Sinnoh in Sw/Sh if remakes are coming. Same for other Gen 1-3 'Mons. Which we know we lack a lot of, especially 2 (44/100), 3 (47/135) and 4 (43/107).

Pretty sure you're missing 15 Pokemon in that Gen 4 count, I count 58.

Spoiler

Shinx, Luxio Luxray, Budew, Roserade, Combee, Vespiqueen, Mothin, Cherubi, Shellos, Gastrodon, Drifloon, Driftblim, Buneary, Lopunny, Stunky, Skuntank, Bronzong, Bronzor, Bonsly, Mime Jr, Happiny, Spiritomb, Gible, Gabite, Garchomp, Munchlax, Riolu, Lucario, Skorupi, Drapion, Croagunk, Toxicroak, Mantyke, Snover, Abomasnow, Weavile, Magnezone, Hippopotas, Hippowdown, Leafeon, Glaceon, Lickilicky, Rhyperior, Tangrowth, Electivire, Magmortar, Togekiss, Mamoswine, Porygon-Z, Gallade, Dusknoir, Froslass, Rotom, Dialga, Palkia, Regigas, Giratina, Cresselia

I still personally don't think the dex portion is much evidence one way or the other, since Game Freak probably focused more on matching the environment and game balance than they did making SwSh a compliment to DPRemakes, whether or not they planned them by then, but since you're factoring it into your own theories, just a heads up about the count.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Pretty sure you're missing 15 Pokemon in that Gen 4 count, I count 58.

Spoiler

Shinx, Luxio Luxray, Budew, Roserade, Combee, Vespiqueen, Mothin, Cherubi, Shellos, Gastrodon, Drifloon, Driftblim, Buneary, Lopunny, Stunky, Skuntank, Bronzong, Bronzor, Bonsly, Mime Jr, Happiny, Spiritomb, Gible, Gabite, Garchomp, Munchlax, Riolu, Lucario, Skorupi, Drapion, Croagunk, Toxicroak, Mantyke, Snover, Abomasnow, Weavile, Magnezone, Hippopotas, Hippowdown, Leafeon, Glaceon, Lickilicky, Rhyperior, Tangrowth, Electivire, Magmortar, Togekiss, Mamoswine, Porygon-Z, Gallade, Dusknoir, Froslass, Rotom, Dialga, Palkia, Regigas, Giratina, Cresselia

I still personally don't think the dex portion is much evidence one way or the other, since Game Freak probably focused more on matching the environment and game balance than they did making SwSh a compliment to DPRemakes, whether or not they planned them by then, but since you're factoring it into your own theories, just a heads up about the count.

This doesn’t really add to/detract from any points being made here but for the sake of accuracy:

Spoiler

I believe you included Mothim instead of Cherrim by mistake. Also, if we’re counting the legendary Pokémon that don’t have Dex entries, Heatran, Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf would be included as well.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

This doesn’t really add to/detract from any points being made here but for the sake of accuracy:

Spoiler

I believe you included Mothim instead of Cherrim by mistake. Also, if we’re counting the legendary Pokémon that don’t have Dex entries, Heatran, Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf would be included as well.

Ohhh, good catch! (And what a weird system, this whole time I've been checking the dex entry section to see if a Pokemon was included, but they included some without entries? Wha???)