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Generation IV Remake Speculation

Will there be remakes in Gen VIII?


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I’m hoping that things have changed now that things such as IVs, Natures, Egg Moves, Abilities, Hidden Abilities, EXP, and EVs have been more streamlined. It’s more possible now than ever to engage in tough post-game facilities. The Battle Tower in SwSh even offered rental teams.
I'd love to see that, but I can't help but feel like a lot of Sw/Sh's elements seem to follow from Masuda's explanation for why the Battle Frontier wasn't in ORAS:
"Put simply, the Battle Frontier wasn't included because only a tiny number of players would have appreciated and used this game feature. Players get fed up more easily than they did in the past and aren't attracted by these 'demanding' challenges."

Sw/Sh is very easy and you can rocket right through the main story and dungeon and route design are both very simple. The post-game is very heavily multiplayer focused and even the Battle Tower is much easier than in the past. It seems to me they don't want to spend too much time and resources on challenging single player content.
 
I feel like this generation would be perfect for an expanded battle facility like the Battle Frontier, especially considering multiplayer competitive requires purchasing online services. As the barriers to competitive have been knocked over with every coming generation--with gen 8 having a lot of QoL changes that allow you to make even story-used Pokémon competitive ready--the battle facilities have become simpler. Well, the Battle Mansion and Battle Tower don't strike me as very differing in their completes, but the point stands that they're much shallower compared to, say, the aforementioned Battle Frontier which had a variety of different ways to battle in contrast to Galar's Battle Tower, which only has Single and Double battles. While I've dabbled in the pre-gen 6 battle facilities, I've always lost interest rather quickly because I never had competitive level-Pokémon, so the battles were, in essence, always very uphill. In contrast, the post-gen 6 facilities just become boring after a while due to their lack of variety. Having a battle facility that offered more than just Singles and Doubles--whether it be inverse or singles with a gimmicky spin--would better capitalize on the ease to get battle-ready Pokémon, and provide a challenging and various alternative to online multiplayer. And it doesn't even need to be a visual spectacle--a simple tower would be fine.
 
Battle Frontier >>>>>> Legendary-laden shiny teams in multiplayer mode.

The Battle Tower gets boring quickly, as well. The Battle Tree was better.

GF has the resources. I don't want dumbed down games anymore, the very low difficulty levels make me feel like some kind of idiot sometimes. Children already play difficult games nowadays.

Wasn't mp co-op a feature as well for the BF?
 
I've been on the fence about how I feel about post game battle facilities for a while now. On one hand, they are sometimes frustrating and not all that interesting. On the other hand, the Battle Frontier (especially Emerald's) had this oddly satisfying appeal as being this super exclusive club/resort with fancy buildings and fancy new characters and I feel like it ought to be fun, but it's just not for me because I can't seem win consistently and I definitely can't seem to win with the pokemon I want to use.

I'm actually totally down with what gen 8 had to offer compared to previous gens. I'm okay with them tuning down the grindiness of the Battle Tower and taking away the need to build a ridiculously long streak. I like how short the challenges are for restricted sparring and how there's a much more limited variety of possible opponents. My problem with this generation's Battle Tower is that the only boss character is Leon. The Battle Tree was fun because you fought a bunch of different characters and got to recruit them. I also kind of miss the option from the Battle Tree to battle without the level cap. I just want to be able to mess around and have fun sometimes. I like roleplaying teams instead of strategizing.

On the other other hand, gen 8 kind of made the rewards for battle facilities obsolete with the amount of stuff you can get from just 1 raid battle. It's kind of laughable now looking back at old facilities and seeing some of the rewards being A SINGLE RARE CANDY and thinking back to gen 4 when I grinded the Battle Hall for days just to be able to buy 1 earthquake TM.

I like the concept of the Battle Frontier, but I think I'd rather it be integrated as part of a post game story rather than a "competitive" post game facility. I'd like to see the Frontier Brains get more to do and say. I'd also like to see the changes to the battle mechanics to be a little bit more interesting than, you have to pay for healing items or you might start the battle with a status effect. Maybe battles should be more like the battle CDs from XD where a certain scenario is set up that you have to solve for. (speaking XD, I thought Battle Bingo was a a lot of fun) I'm not entirely sure what all I would do with it.
 
I'd love to see that, but I can't help but feel like a lot of Sw/Sh's elements seem to follow from Masuda's explanation for why the Battle Frontier wasn't in ORAS:
"Put simply, the Battle Frontier wasn't included because only a tiny number of players would have appreciated and used this game feature. Players get fed up more easily than they did in the past and aren't attracted by these 'demanding' challenges."

Sw/Sh is very easy and you can rocket right through the main story and dungeon and route design are both very simple. The post-game is very heavily multiplayer focused and even the Battle Tower is much easier than in the past. It seems to me they don't want to spend too much time and resources on challenging single player content.
I agree, but I think the point to be made here is that one very real reason for the small interest in battle facilities was that it took so much ridiculous grinding and luck to be ready for them. My hope is that the streamlining they’ve done indicates that they are trying to make competitive aspects including the Battle Frontier more accessible to players after hearing the outcry when it was removed. This way, it will actually see more success than they anticipated it would in gen 6.
 
Removing player choice is almost always a bad thing. They've been doing that for a while now, sadly.

I hope they do a Z:BTW turn of events. Allow me to explain; Zelda:Skyward Sword was a commercial success, but many fans were a bit disappointed by it. It was not a bad game, it just wasn't 'it'. The makers of Zelda could by all means have carried on with this vision, but instead chose to go on the hard road and make an unique open world experience. Pokémon needs this kind of bravado (in terms of creativity), as well.
 
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I just don't want them to limit Pokemon to just Gens 1-4, it's actually one of the things I liked about ORAS is the fact that you can get post-Gen 3 Pokemon. Plus there are plenty of post-Gen 4 Fire-types to choose from to be included as wild Pokemon.

As long as they include Platinum's expansion (and I don't see much reason not to), the lack of Fire types isn't really an issue. And most likely, any Fire types outside of Platinum's 210 won't be available until post game (maaayybe I could see them adding some new Sinnohan variants to the Dex but that’s about it) so that won't really help things all that much. But I can definitely see the remaining Fire types in SwSh (Cyndaquil, Slugma, Numel, Pansear, Fennekin, Litleo) being added to post game.

Considering ORAS were remakes of Ruby/Sapphire instead of Emerald, have there been any species that were removed in terms of availability compared to RS?

That's a BS excuse for them to cut corners, there is no reason why ORAS had to be so religiously similar to RS and pretend Emerald didn't exist. If they really wanted to make ORAS the best game it could possibly be, instead of just a cheap, half-assed, casualized affair rushed out for the holiday season, there was no reason to exclude things like the Battle Frontier, the Safari Zone expansion, or some of the additional areas and features that Emerald had. HGSS had most of what Crystal offered (the only thing missing from Crystal really was the Odd Egg), ORAS should've had most of what Emerald offered.

Removing player choice is almost always a bad thing. They've been doing that for a while now, sadly.

I hope they do a Z:BTW turn of events. Allow me to explain; Zelda:Skyward Sword was a commercial success, but many fans were a bit disappointed by it. It was not a bad game, it just wasn't 'it'. The makers of Zelda could by all means have carried on with this vision, but instead chose to go on the hard road and make an unique open world experience. Pokémon needs this kind of bravado (in terms of creativity), as well.

They should, but they probably won't. Nintendo does things like that because they're gamer friendly and they care about making the experience as enjoyable as possible, even if it potentially costs them profits. Game Freak/TPC doesn't seem to have this kind of attitude, they seem to almost entirely focus on what sells and how they can squeeze the most profits out of the games. They focus on casual players because of mobile's popularity and go about cutting content to appeal to them. They set firm holiday season release dates to maximize sales and never even think about delaying a game if it's not quite ready. They included open world sections in SwSh because of BotW's success but didn't fill it with things to do to make exploring it worthwhile. It's pretty clear that they're just chasing trends without really attempting to understand why they're successful and what it is gamers actually want. And I don't think they're ever going to learn unless Nintendo steps in. Really, I have to question why they haven't already, Nintendo had to have known the fans would be unhappy with SwSh as is, so why didn't they put their foot down and tell Game Freak to delay it? Wouldn't have been the first time, Nintendo did the same for BW2, Game Freak was just going to make a regular old Grey version before they stepped in.
 
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I hope they do a Z:BTW turn of events. Allow me to explain; Zelda:Skyward Sword was a commercial success, but many fans were a bit disappointed by it. It was not a bad game, it just wasn't 'it'. The makers of Zelda could by all means have carried on with this vision, but instead chose to go on the hard road and make an unique open world experience. Pokémon needs this kind of bravado (in terms of creativity), as well.


I think I understand what you mean, but I don't really think BOTW is some game changing deviation from the vision of the Zelda team. People didn't like Skyward Sword because the world felt like it was divided up into levels instead of allowing more freedom of movement like ALL of the previous titles. It also backtracked a lot and had an extremely intrusive helper character. Sometimes I kind of feel like they overcompensated for the faults that Skyward Sword had when they made BOTW, but the similarities between the two games are more than people realize, I think.
 
I think the best way to do open world is to make the start linear until beating the first Gym and then letting the player have the choice to go to whichever Gym they want to go next. Having some sort of guidance is kind of important in any game, even open world, heck, even Breath of the Wild had some sort of guidance system.
 
I think the best way to do open world is to make the start linear until beating the first Gym and then letting the player have the choice to go to whichever Gym they want to go next. Having some sort of guidance is kind of important in any game, even open world, heck, even Breath of the Wild had some sort of guidance system.
Even with guidance the amount of choice was... overwhelming. So, yeah. It would be the only deal breaker for me.
 
This is actually one of my fears, since, well, open world is one of those styles I can't adapt to.
I had been writing (but abandoned) a post for the "Dream game" thread where I suggested they could get around this by having someone--maybe the Professor--give the player a suggested Gym order they could follow or choose to ignore. a number of RPGs have used similar systems successfully where NPCs point the playr in a recommended order but they can ignore it and do something else if they want.
 
the Safari Zone expansion

The Safari Zone expansion wouldn't have really added anything to ORAS. Its only purpose in Emerald was to toss in a handful of missing species, which is already accomplished many times over in ORAS by the Mirage Spots, the open sky, and the post-Weather Crisis migration. For the handful of Emerald species they didn't happen to include (because they were already available in XY, and let's keep in mind that Emerald only included the specific species that it did because those were ones that weren't already covered by FRLG), they also added like over 200 Pokémon that weren't in the original Ruby & Sapphire. Sure is some real religious fidelity right there. And frankly it makes more sense to include those species through stuff like Soaring and the DexNav, which are new features that people will be interested in, as opposed to "wow, some more grass to walk around in for some random encounters"

I mean I guess I sort of get it if you're like a hardcore Mareep or Shuckle fan but otherwise you're crying foul over like 400 grassland tiles. The SZ expansion was meager. I don't understand this sort of iron-clad, accept-no-substitutes mindset that people have about remakes. Tacking on an extra room to the Safari Zone in Emerald made sense at the time because back then, the games couldn't do cool shit like Soaring, but it was never anything more than a low-effort solution to squeeze in some more species; it was not exactly virtuous, meaningful content unto itself and it was not an idea with any real vision behind it.
 
This is actually one of my fears, since, well, open world is one of those styles I can't adapt to.

Yeah, I can't really adapt to open world either. I've never played an open world game that I liked and I always lose interest in playing pretty quick (unless dark souls qualifies as open world).

I actually prefer Skyward Sword over BOTW. I just think that BOTW was a little bit more logical for Zelda than something similar is for Pokemon.
 
I like the concept of the Battle Frontier, but I think I'd rather it be integrated as part of a post game story rather than a "competitive" post game facility. I'd like to see the Frontier Brains get more to do and say.

This solution makes a lot of sense to me. Like I said before, competitive improvements are there mainly for competitive players; people who actually want to engage in the PvP side of the game. If the problem with post-game battle facilities really is the fact that they require competitive-level Pokémon in order to make progress, then why not... just make them not require that? That's what the Black Tower/White Treehollow did, after all, as it relied far more on the puzzle and resource-management elements (with some RNG mixed in) to generate difficulty, and personally speaking, that and Restricted Sparring are the only facilities that I not only for once bothered with, but actually completed all the way through. Plus, they've obviously had success with the post-game storylines, so weaving that sort of thing into it could also help give the more casual players an incentive to push into it.

I hope they do a Z:BTW turn of events. Allow me to explain; Zelda:Skyward Sword was a commercial success, but many fans were a bit disappointed by it. It was not a bad game, it just wasn't 'it'. The makers of Zelda could by all means have carried on with this vision, but instead chose to go on the hard road and make an unique open world experience. Pokémon needs this kind of bravado (in terms of creativity), as well.

See, it's times like when people say this while SwSh are literally standing shoulder-to-shoulder with BOTW in sales, and when the main series has pretty much been on a clear upward trajectory in terms of sales on each new system, where I feel like actually it's Game Freak who are the ones that are more in touch with what the series "needs," and not the Internet echochambers.

Skyward Sword may have been a "commercial success," but not one that's in the same universe as main series Pokémon games. Even USUM dunks on it. Some people will say that's because of Pokémon's brand power, but is it really? You don't see Pokkén Tournament or Mystery Dungeon DX doing SwSh numbers. It's always specifically the main series that proves titanically successful. The idea that people will buy whatever just because it has Pokémon on the cover is a myth.

Like, I remember when Link's Awakening was announced for the Switch, some people complained about it and compared it to Let's Go in terms of being a cutesy simplistic remake with a soft color palette, but commercially speaking, LA wishes it was Let's Go, which over the course of its lifespan has been thrice as successful. I'm not convinced that there's really anything worthwhile to the constant analogies that people draw between Zelda and Pokémon. To me, it seems they're different beasts with very different appeals.
 
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