Generation IV Remake Speculation

[Boss1708]

I honestly have a problem with people that confuse "this game is content lacking" with "this game has a lot of content, but I don't enjoy it".

I feel people that criticize SwSh simply confuse these 2 sentences.

 

[SlowGinFizzzz]

I honestly have a problem with people that confuse "this game is content lacking" with "this game has a lot of content, but I don't enjoy it".

I feel people that criticize SwSh simply confuse these 2 sentences.

I think the problem with Sword/Shield is that it's both: it's relatively little content compared to both earlier Pokémon games and other games with a $60 (+ $30) price tag, and it's content that quite a lot of people don't seem to be enjoying all that much.

 

[Boss1708]

I think the problem with Sword/Shield is that it's both: it's relatively little content compared to both earlier Pokémon games and other games with a $60 (+ $30) price tag, and it's content that quite a lot of people don't seem to be enjoying all that much.

The "content lacking" argument is incorrect. You cannot tell me SwSh is "content lacking" compared to previous Pokemon games when the full game literally offers you all of this content:

1. Battle Tower
2. Restricted Sparring
3. Dynamax Adventures
4. Max Raid Battles all over Galar
5. Champion Cup rematches
6. Galar Star Tournament Tag Team battles
7. Pokemon Camp
8. Curry making + Curry Dex
9. League Card Customization
10. Best Trainer Customization to date
11. Poké Jobs
12. Pokemon following you
13. Rotom Rally
14. Battle Cafés
15. Cramomatic
16. Diglett hunt
17. Etc (And that's without mentioning how fun it is to just aimlessly roam around the 3 Wild Areas in search for respawning items!!)

This all shows that SwSh is pretty much on par with USUM content wise.

As for your second claim, it is completely subjective. I, for one, enjoy most of the content SwSh has, and I think most people agree with me. Idk what makes you think most people don't find it enjoyable. By all means, I think you guys are the small minority, not us.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I'm sorry, but I've read this a few times over now, and it makes me giddy. Lol, yes, I was totally friends with the 50 or so people I friended on X to get all the friend safaris I wanted. I totally did not initiate trades with random strangers in the PSS just to add them to my friend list.

Like seriously, I'm going to need you to elaborate. Perhaps you have a personal experience that is different than mine? And I'm honestly just trying to understand, because when I think of social features in Pokemon Games, Friend Safari is not really on the forefront of my mind. As far as social interactions in ORAS go, Secret Bases was where it was at.

If you want to talk about a social feature, let's talk about the WiFi Plaza from Platinum. Now THAT is a social feature I have fond memories of. It was so great. It would be awesome to get an enhanced version for a remake of DP, but my hopes are really really low.

Well during XY, I spent a lot of time scouring Serebii and Bulbagarden for friends that had the Pokemon I wanted, that's where the social aspect came in for me. But your complaint is valid, in game it is just build a list and go catch the Pokemon. But again, this is where they should build on the concept instead of throwing it away, instead of the people on your friend list just appearing on a list, they could appear in your game and you could get objects from them that attract certain Pokemon? Or you could invite people into your Safari like Animal Crossing New Horizons or something? I think they're onto something here and I'd like to see them build and improve on it, not just discard it.

The "content lacking" argument is objectively false. You cannot tell me SwSh is "content lacking" compared to previous Pokemon games when the full game literally offers you all of this content:

1. Battle Tower
2. Restricted Sparring
3. Dynamax Adventures
4. Max Raid Battles all over Galar
5. Champion Cup rematches
6. Galar Star Tournament Tag Team battles
7. Pokemon Camp
8. Curry making + Curry Dex
9. League Card Customization
10. Best Trainer Customization to date
11. Poké Jobs
12. Pokemon following you
13. Rotom Rally
14. Battle Cafés
15. Cramomatic
16. Diglett hunt
17. Etc (And that's without mentioning how fun it is to just aimlessly roam around the 3 Wild Areas in search for respawning items!!)

This all shows that SwSh is pretty much on par with USUM content wise.

As for your second claim, it is completely subjective. I, for one, enjoy most of the content SwSh has, and I think most people agree with me. Idk what makes you think most people don't find it enjoyable. By all means, I think you guys are the small minority, not us.

You can't just make a list of features and then say that the game has a lot of content, it's more nuanced than that. You can do that with any game. The issue with SwSh's content is that most of these things are shallow mechanics that you can experience all that they have to offer in a few minutes, whereas the larger sidequests that are more involved quests have disappeared (things like Contests, Secret Bases, Pokeathlon, Join Avenue, Pokestar Studios, etc.). I'll give SwSh credit, Dynamax Adventures kind of satisfies that, but older games had more than that.

Also, USUM isn't the gold standard for content that people are comparing these games to. Usually when people are looking for "more content" they want something more like what Platinum, HGSS, and BW2 had to offer. And these games are definitely lacking compared to those games.

More to the topic, DP remakes are going to be expected to keep things like Contests, Sinnoh Underground, the Battle Frontier, and the Great Marsh. If they remove any of those features, we're going to continue seeing fans complain about "no content".

 

[Poke Dragon]

In terms of contests, how will they manage to have every Pokemon able to be used in the games to be customizable for that feature? I think the easiest way to do so is to make it like Super Mario Maker 2, but in 3D where you can drag and drop objects. This would allow them to not have to deal with so much coding every single Pokemon just for one side feature and would give them more time for other parts of the remake as well.

Also, they already technically have done the feature to have you manually rotate a camera around a Pokemon before, so just combine that with the customization feature and you pretty much have a solid, yet easier to code feature.

 

[Minya_Nouvelle]

Well during XY, I spent a lot of time scouring Serebii and Bulbagarden for friends that had the Pokemon I wanted, that's where the social aspect came in for me. But your complaint is valid, in game it is just build a list and go catch the Pokemon. But again, this is where they should build on the concept instead of throwing it away, instead of the people on your friend list just appearing on a list, they could appear in your game and you could get objects from them that attract certain Pokemon? Or you could invite people into your Safari like Animal Crossing New Horizons or something? I think they're onto something here and I'd like to see them build and improve on it, not just discard it.

That's fair. Maybe if they combined the HGSS customizable safaris with the sharing aspect of the Friend Safari, it could be interesting: You could start off with one section and expand it by adding friends.

In terms of contests, how will they manage to have every Pokemon able to be used in the games to be customizable for that feature? I think the easiest way to do so is to make it like Super Mario Maker 2, but in 3D where you can drag and drop objects. This would allow them to not have to deal with so much coding every single Pokemon just for one side feature and would give them more time for other parts of the remake as well.

I think it will be easier than it seems, but some items might be removed. There are a lot of "Air items"; stuff like confetti; glitter powder and sparks. These seem like they would be relatively easy to implement as effects or something. I imagine they would be animated. The stage items would probably be converted in to customizing the floor your pokemon is standing on and then there's a lot of "props" that your pokemon doesn't necessairly need to be interacting with like the flag, balloons, mirror ball; etc. These would probably have pre programmed spots to appear in. Stuff like ribbons are probably also easy to implement. The hard ones will be head and face items. I imagine that that items will be divided into categories like this and you'll be able to select one or two items per category and they'll just appear in a predetermined location.

 

[Boss1708]

You can't just make a list of features and then say that the game has a lot of content, it's more nuanced than that. You can do that with any game. The issue with SwSh's content is that most of these things are shallow mechanics that you can experience all that they have to offer in a few minutes, whereas the larger sidequests that are more involved quests have disappeared (things like Contests, Secret Bases, Pokeathlon, Join Avenue, Pokestar Studios, etc.). I'll give SwSh credit, Dynamax Adventures kind of satisfies that, but older games had more than that.

Also, USUM isn't the gold standard for content that people are comparing these games to. Usually when people are looking for "more content" they want something more like what Platinum, HGSS, and BW2 had to offer. And these games are definitely lacking compared to those games.

You are misunderstanding me.

I said SwSh is like USUM content wise, and I think that's definitely a solid amount of content for a Pokemon game. I never said it's the Golden Standard.

For me, the Golden Standard are Emerald and BW2. I agree that SwSh and USUM are below that Golden Standard. But my point is, they are a lot closer to it than some people here are pretending.

 

[SinnohEevee]

I'm not really sure why you think that. From my experience the Frontier wasn't challenging; it was the on that was a slog. I would train up the best teams possible, get a semi high streak (40 -60) and still lose. What's challenging about having to win 100 battles in a row without losing a single one? Sometimes, I would get to like 98 and lose right near the end. It felt so luck based.

In gen IV; I used a team of hacked pokemon (Slaking, Azelf and a third I can't remember) with Huge Power to try and beat the Battle Tower. Want to know what happened? Every opponent had a pokemon with Focus Band and Focus Band would activate like 5 times in a row every time. Unless you can tell me that they built anti-cheating measures into gen IV; I'm pretty sure the AI cheats hard.

Restricted Sparring on the other hand is way more challenging, imo. In total, its still about 100 battles, but you have to train a bunch of different teams and you have to know about each types weaknesses and build teams to compensate for those weaknesses instead of trying to make 1 team to do everything.

They can have rental teams

In terms of contests, how will they manage to have every Pokemon able to be used in the games to be customizable for that feature? I think the easiest way to do so is to make it like Super Mario Maker 2, but in 3D where you can drag and drop objects. This would allow them to not have to deal with so much coding every single Pokemon just for one side feature and would give them more time for other parts of the remake as well.

Also, they already technically have done the feature to have you manually rotate a camera around a Pokemon before, so just combine that with the customization feature and you pretty much have a solid, yet easier to code feature.

Easy. They will probably just remove Contests

 

[Daren]

You are misunderstanding me.

I said SwSh is like USUM content wise, and I think that's definitely a solid amount of content for a Pokemon game. I never said it's the Golden Standard.

For me, the Golden Standard are Emerald and BW2. I agree that SwSh and USUM are below that Golden Standard. But my point is, they are a lot closer to it than some people here are pretending.

But Sw/Sh is far more expensive than other Pokémon games, especially when you factor in the expansion pass.
Having almost as much content as a 16 year old game that was cheaper and on a much weaker system isn't praise.

 

[Boss1708]

But Sw/Sh is far more expensive than other Pokémon games, especially when you factor in the expansion pass.
Having almost as much content as a 16 year old game that was cheaper and on a much weaker system isn't praise.

Sorry but I will definitely praise SwSh. Because I don't evaluate each game based on how much it costs. I evaluate it based on how GOOD it is. You do you.

Imo the "but it costs more!" is a very very weak argument. The games cost more because they are on better hardaware with better HD graphics.

For example: Pokemon Red (1998) costs the same as Pokemon BW2 (2012) despite having a lot less content and despite looking like dog shit. Why? Because they don't put price tags according to how much content a game has.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I'm continuing the discussion in this thread since this is getting off topic from Sinnoh remakes:

What Kinds of Extra Content Should the Series Have?

I've discussed this topic several times on other threads, so I think maybe it's worth its own topic. So the last few generations have made some massive changes in terms of what kinds of extra content there is to do in the main games, and with Pokemon shifting to console and selling for $60...

forums.bulbagarden.net

Trying to bring this discussion back to Sinnoh, what kinds of content would you say absolutely needs to be in the game for you to want to buy it? I'm most concerned about Contests, Sinnoh Underground, and the Great Marsh returning in some form (but not exactly as it was in the originals, the traditional Safari Zone mechanics should stay dead).

 

[WyndonCalling]

Hi everyone,

Just a gentle, informal reminder to keep those jets cool. Please recognise that there's an awful lot of subjectivity and personal taste in this discussion, and that you don't need to directly insult another user to create a hostile atmosphere. If you're feeling wound up, it rarely hurts to step away from the screen for half a day.

 

[AngryBinacle]

Did people really think this? I thought that they first showcased Max Raids at the infamous E3 and it literally showed exactly what the finished thing was - co-op multiplayer battles. I might be remembering wrong butI didn’t ever think it would be more than that - Dynamax adventures I saw a lot more people hypothesising might be more like the Underground but frankly it seemed a smaller number than those that thought it would just be basic multi choice paths - which is what it is.

Ive said it before but I really think that Gamefreak got a bit screwed over by Nintendo implementing the NSO requirement. Max Raids are so much more enjoyable with human partners than the AI idiots and having more trainers roaming the wild areas when connected to the net makes them feel so much more interesting than roaming them alone. For context my first play through used an NSO linked account - second play through used one that wasn’t and I’d definitely say that Sword/Shield felt more lacking without the NSO account.

Woops, I meant Crown Tundra's Max Raid dens.

 

[Shib]

I thought so - that’s Dynamax Adventures. Itd be quite disappointing but I can imagine Sinnoh remakes using Dynamax Adventures as the template for the Underground.

 

[Phosphene]

Since the topic of the Underground was mentioned...

In my copy of Pearl, the Underground was barren because I didn't have any friends that played the games, nor was able to access online services (the farthest I got was to that blue screen with Pichu and Pikachu). I basically just used it to mine for fossils and shards, which didn't use the area to its fullest methinks. With online services now requiring NSO, which I haven't bought, I'm afraid I'll run into the same issue in our hypothetical DPPt remakes. I really hope they make the area engaging for people without multiplayer, though, judging by the state of the Wild Area I don't think that would happen. I think the easiest way would be to implement a diverse collection of NPCs (whom you can battle) that randomly spawn and walk around the Underground, along with randomly spawning NPC Secret Bases.

Edit: Turns out the Underground didn't use online services.

 

[prog rocker]

Well, the original underground didn't use the online services either, which seems like a pretty big missed opportunity now that I think about it.

 

[Esserise]

We now know for sure that they’ll be celebrating the anniversary next year:



Personally I would be surprised if there weren’t a main series game to come with it, but I suppose we’ll find out on February 27th.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Now that there's an official confirmation of a new main series game next year, the possibility of the remakes became more likely.

 

[Esserise]

Now that there's an official confirmation of a new main series game next year, the possibility of the remakes became more likely.

There has been no confirmation of that. All they’ve confirmed is that there are anniversary celebration plans, and all I said was that I personally think a main series game is likely.

 

[Phosphene]

We now know for sure that they’ll be celebrating the anniversary next year:



Personally I would be surprised if there weren’t a main series game to come with it, but I suppose we’ll find out on February 27th.

Guys...

Sinnoh Confirmed!!!1!!!11!!1!