Generation IV Remake Speculation

[BackSet]

to this day

You sound like you're talking about something that happened a decade ago even though it only happened, like, last year.

 

[Rantaro]

You sound like you're talking about something that happened a decade ago even though it only happened, like, last year.

A year is still a long time to consistently complain about a specific instance (whether justified or not).

 

[Leaf_Ranger]

(...). People have exposed their excuses. (...).

People have exposed their LIES! Fixed that!

Or they could have not told us about the Pokédex cut until after release. Telling about it at E3 was very anti-money because it made so many customers cancel their pre-orders. If they had waited for people to discover Dexit themselves before making their excuses, Sword and Shield would have made a lot more money on release. They need to be careful about talking about the removal of features like the National Dex. At least if they didn't say anything before the game released, they wouldn't be lying like the excuse of recreating models from scratch, which was exposed by the trailers.

I can understand your point but I can see GF being totally disconnected from reality and assuming that everything would be cool. People have been eating their crappy paired-versions model for over 20 years and games with very few improvements so would they even see Dexit as "anti-money". And even if they were to look at western companies, most gamers tend to eat lots of crap, be it with Activision, Ubisoft, EA so why would Pkmn players be any different, more so when they are always targeting children (despite their clear and great young adult fanbase)?

GF is at a point where it resembles Hideo Kojima by the time of MGSV, where people where always demanding more, he wanted to quit, he kept made bad games (lore and storywise) but they were still acclaimed and he could not pull the plug. At the farthest future, GF wants to quit Pkmn or at least stop being all about Pkmn (their recent non-Pkmn games tell that as well as that interview about teams A and B as well as wanting their staff to gain more experience on other games/types/etc) but the fact is that despite being garbage (both company and games) it sells.

I'm just curious to see the models they'll use for Pkmn! I'm betting it'll be yet again state of the art, top-notch and totally newer ones.

 

[BackSet]

Wait, isn't this thread supposed to be about gen 4 remakes?

 

[Rantaro]

People have exposed their LIES! Fixed that!



I can understand your point but I can see GF being totally disconnected from reality and assuming that everything would be cool. People have been eating their crappy paired-versions model for over 20 years and games with very few improvements so would they even see Dexit as "anti-money". And even if they were to look at western companies, most gamers tend to eat lots of crap, be it with Activision, Ubisoft, EA so why would Pkmn players be any different, more so when they are always targeting children (despite their clear and great young adult fanbase)?

GF is at a point where it resembles Hideo Kojima by the time of MGSV, where people where always demanding more, he wanted to quit, he kept made bad games (lore and storywise) but they were still acclaimed and he could not pull the plug. At the farthest future, GF wants to quit Pkmn or at least stop being all about Pkmn (their recent non-Pkmn games tell that as well as that interview about teams A and B as well as wanting their staff to gain more experience on other games/types/etc) but the fact is that despite being garbage (both company and games) it sells.

I'm just curious to see the models they'll use for Pkmn! I'm betting it'll be yet again state of the art, top-notch and totally newer ones.

GF is looking more and more like a bunch of Psyducks!

PS: Masuda, you can go tease your precious remakes to someone who still eats your trash.

You good?

 

[SeanWheeler]

Wait, isn't this thread supposed to be about gen 4 remakes?

Yeah. And Dexit is relevant to how the Sinnoh remakes could have the National Pokédex. Some people think the National Dex is gone for good, but I think the PR mess around Dexit should be a good reason for GameFreak to backtrack. In fact, the DLC may have been them backtracking already unless they've already planned that DLC before the controversial announcement. And I want to finish the game with a complete regional Pokédex like how the original Sinnoh games had you complete the Sinnoh Dex before the National Dex upgrade, and cramming all the missing Unova, Kalos and Alola Pokémon along with the Pokémon you needed the National Dex for in Platinum would be too much.

 

[BackSet]

It seems more like we're all either insulting or defending Game Freak at this point.

Unrelated side note: why is it called the National Dex? Shouldn't it be the International Dex?

 

[SeanWheeler]

It's been called the National Dex since Generation III. Giving it a prefix now can upset some people.

Anyway, instead of finding random trainers with starters, should we have a third rival with the same starter as us? Or should Lucas/Dawn have our starter and the new rival would have the starter weak to us that Lucas/Dawn would have picked in the original games?

 

[prog rocker]

It's been called the National Dex since Generation III. Giving it a prefix now can upset some people.

How?

 

[BackSet]

It's been called the National Dex since Generation III. Giving it a prefix now can upset some people.

That doesn't answer my question.

 

[SeanWheeler]

I don't know why they decided to name the main Pokédex that. Maybe National could be short for International? But it's not that good to drop the prefix when it means something totally different. Maybe all the regions were intended to be one nation?

How the National Dex got it's name is way further off topic than Dexit.

Anyway, can we discuss the idea of a third rival so that if starters become exclusive to rivals again and they remove starters from common trainers to replace them with new additions to the Sinnoh Dex, we can still complete the Pokédex without evolving our own starter? I'm thinking it should be a girl to be the opposite gendered rival to Barry. I'm going to call her Tina. But she's not going to be the one who matches your starter. Going by a line of dialogue in the original games where Lucas and Dawn suggested that they could have ended up with the same Pokémon as you, I would like the remakes to be that scenario where they chose the same starter you did. And the new girl Tina would get the Pokémon weak against your starter. And all battles with Barry, Lucas/Dawn and Tina would be unavoidable so that you can have each stage of their starters registered in your Pokédex. Their battles would be so mandatory that if you use a cheating device to enter the Hall of Fame early and one of the Pokémon missing from your Pokédex was a Sinnoh starter or an evolved form of a Sinnoh starter, Professor Rowan would know that you've cheated to skip those unskippable battles and punishes you by erasing your entire save file and forcing you to start all over again. However, if you've seen all the starters and their evolutions and you're just missing entries from Pokémon used by trainers you avoided, Rowan would tell you about a trainer you missed and point you toward the route they were last seen, giving you the chance to complete the Pokédex for the National upgrade.

 

[Rantaro]

Anyway, can we discuss the idea of a third rival so that if starters become exclusive to rivals again and they remove starters from common trainers to replace them with new additions to the Sinnoh Dex, we can still complete the Pokédex without evolving our own starter? I'm thinking it should be a girl to be the opposite gendered rival to Barry. I'm going to call her Tina. But she's not going to be the one who matches your starter.

I'm 100% not here for a new third rival--Pokémon's histories of throwing in characters that weren't in the original story is godawful at best and abyssmal at worst. Also, common trainers having starters has been a thing since Red and Green--it's not out of place at all. I'm pretty sure most generations have had that

And all battles with Barry, Lucas/Dawn and Tina would be unavoidable so that you can have each stage of their starters registered in your Pokédex. Their battles would be so mandatory that if you use a cheating device to enter the Hall of Fame early and one of the Pokémon missing from your Pokédex was a Sinnoh starter or an evolved form of a Sinnoh starter, Professor Rowan would know that you've cheated to skip those unskippable battles and punishes you by erasing your entire save file and forcing you to start all over again.

This isn't the first pressing of Earthbound, there's no way Game Freak would do that. Also, players could just hack a complete Pokédex if they were going to dedicate that much energy into cheating to get into the hall of fame.

Edit: Grammars

 

[Esserise]

I'm 100% not here for a new third rival--Pokémon's histories of throwing in characters that weren't in the original story is godawful at best and abyssmal at worst.

This is the kind of comment that piques my inner record-keeper, or my OCD, or both. Off the top of my head, this would encompass:

Jessie & James
Eusine
Scott
Juan
Looker
Charon
The new Rocket admins sorta...? Archer at least would definitely count for LGPE.
Aarune
Lisia
Zinnia
The Ultra Recon Squad
Trace
Green

Am I missing anyone?

Also, common trainers having starters has been a thing since Red and Green--it's not out of place at all. I'm pretty sure most generations have had that

I'm not sure "most" have - I can't recall any common Trainers using Starters in Gens 3, 5, 6, 7, or 8, and I don't think anyone else used Chikorita/Cyndaquil/Totodile in Gen 2, even though there was the occasional Trainer with Bulbasaur, Charmander, or Squirtle. I might be wildly misremembering all of that but I feel about 80% sure.

Nevertheless, I also don't think it's a problem if regular Trainers do use them.

And all battles with Barry, Lucas/Dawn and Tina would be unavoidable so that you can have each stage of their starters registered in your Pokédex. Their battles would be so mandatory that if you use a cheating device to enter the Hall of Fame early and one of the Pokémon missing from your Pokédex was a Sinnoh starter or an evolved form of a Sinnoh starter, Professor Rowan would know that you've cheated to skip those unskippable battles and punishes you by erasing your entire save file and forcing you to start all over again.

This is a lot of unnecessary coding just to penalize something that probably only .00001% of the playerbase would even do

 

[Phosphene]

I don't know why they decided to name the main Pokédex that. Maybe National could be short for International? But it's not that good to drop the prefix when it means something totally different. Maybe all the regions were intended to be one nation?

"National Pokedex" was officially coined in gen III, where the only three regions were all inspired by areas in Japan. In other words, all three regions were inspired by locations all in the same country, which I am going to assume is why the non-Regional Pokedex is referred to as the National Pokedex rather than International. I think the reason it was never changed to International was because National was grandfathered in by the time of gen 5--changing it might have been confusing hence why National is still in use.

Anyway, can we discuss the idea of a third rival so that if starters become exclusive to rivals again and they remove starters from common trainers to replace them with new additions to the Sinnoh Dex, we can still complete the Pokédex without evolving our own starter?

Even ignoring the issue of tossing in a secondary rival just for the sake of allowing players to see all starters (as if a few extra battles with Rowan's assistant couldn't fulfill this roll already), I'd rather not make starters exclusive to the player and their rivals. I like the idea of there being other trainers, even if they are just regular trainers, who also received a starter from Rowan as it seems more realistic and makes the game feel more lived in.

Their battles would be so mandatory that if you use a cheating device to enter the Hall of Fame early and one of the Pokémon missing from your Pokédex was a Sinnoh starter or an evolved form of a Sinnoh starter, Professor Rowan would know that you've cheated to skip those unskippable battles and punishes you by erasing your entire save file and forcing you to start all over again. However, if you've seen all the starters and their evolutions and you're just missing entries from Pokémon used by trainers you avoided, Rowan would tell you about a trainer you missed and point you toward the route they were last seen, giving you the chance to complete the Pokédex for the National upgrade.

Why? What's the purpose of this? Who cares if you use a cheating device to skip those battles, not like it's going to have a negative effect on other players. This just seems rather... vindictive over something that seems small.

 

[DawningWinds]

I'm not sure "most" have - I can't recall any common Trainers using Starters in Gens 3, 5, 6, 7, or 8, and I don't think anyone else used Chikorita/Cyndaquil/Totodile in Gen 2, even though there was the occasional Trainer with Bulbasaur, Charmander, or Squirtle. I might be misremembering but I feel about 80% confident in that. Nevertheless, I also don't think it's a problem if regular Trainers do use them.

8 has that one breeder in the Wild Area with all three.

And I wouldn't say regular trainers using starters is a problem, no. You just get them from a Professor or someone, it's not exactly immersion-breaking to imagine that you and your rival(s) aren't the only ones to do that, or even to think the person who gave you yours isn't the only one in the region to do so. In fact, I say it's more immersion-breaking to think otherwise.

Their battles would be so mandatory that if you use a cheating device to enter the Hall of Fame early and one of the Pokémon missing from your Pokédex was a Sinnoh starter or an evolved form of a Sinnoh starter, Professor Rowan would know that you've cheated to skip those unskippable battles and punishes you by erasing your entire save file and forcing you to start all over again. However, if you've seen all the starters and their evolutions and you're just missing entries from Pokémon used by trainers you avoided, Rowan would tell you about a trainer you missed and point you toward the route they were last seen, giving you the chance to complete the Pokédex for the National upgrade.

The first part of this seems completely and utterly ridiculous. The latter part seems helpful enough, and in the spirit of how obtaining the National upgrade in the originals worked, though I honestly can't remember whether it was a thing in DPPt.

 

[Rantaro]

This is the kind of comment that piques my inner record-keeper, or my OCD, or both. Off the top of my head, this would encompass:

Jessie & James
Eusine
Scott
Juan
Looker
Charon
The new Rocket admins sorta...? Archer at least would definitely count for LGPE.
Aarune
Lisia
Zinnia
The Ultra Recon Squad
Trace
Green

Lyra in HGSS--Krys ceased to exist if you didn't choose her in Crystal. I'd also argue Red and Blue could be counted as "new" characters in LGPE since it's clear that the events of their adventure were different in this timeline.

I'm not sure "most" have - I can't recall any common Trainers using Starters in Gens 3, 5, 6, 7, or 8, and I don't think anyone else used Chikorita/Cyndaquil/Totodile in Gen 2, even though there was the occasional Trainer with Bulbasaur, Charmander, or Squirtle. I might be wildly misremembering all of that but I feel about 80% sure.

I counted Tucker in Emerald for Gen III, not sure you'd count that (do trainers in Sinnoh besides Gym Leaders and the E4 have them?). I also swear there was a trainer in Gen 6 who used a starter as well, though I could be misremembering as I haven't played XY in about 6 years. Gen II has loads of trainers with Kanto starters, and the Trainer House's default party is all the Johto Starters if you want to count that. But, yeah, 1,2, and 4 definitely do, and if you count Tucker in Emerald that's gen 3 as well. So about half at least.

 

[Rantaro]

The first part of this seems completely and utterly ridiculous. The latter part seems helpful enough, and in the spirit of how obtaining the National upgrade in the originals worked, though I honestly can't remember whether it was a thing in DPPt.

Sorry for double post, but iirc in DPPt you were only told how many Pokémon you had seen. If you hadn't found them yet you needed to just git gud and figure it out yourself (or use a guide).

 

[DawningWinds]

Sorry for double post, but iirc in DPPt you were only told how many Pokémon you had seen. If you hadn't found them yet you needed to just git gud and figure it out yourself (or use a guide).

Yeah, okay, then I wouldn't be against Rowan directing you to where you can fight a trainer to fill a missing Pokédex page if you talk to him in the Hall of Fame with an incomplete Pokédex. Hunting through the entire region for every trainer is a pain (though admittedly not something I would really know from putting a ton of time and effort into), and it's not like the people who want to do it themselves have to actually pay attention when he mentions that.

 

[BackSet]

Do we ever get to fight Professor Rowan? I know that Professor battles are kind of overdone at this point but that’s be wicked cool.

 

[SeanWheeler]

Also, common trainers having starters has been a thing since Red and Green--it's not out of place at all. I'm pretty sure most generations have had that

Not really. While the Kanto games did have random trainers with Bulbasaur, Charmander and Squirtle and their evolutions, starters had been mostly rival exclusive since Johto. They just had random trainers in Sinnoh use starters to help you complete your Pokédex, but they are not really needed when you very likely would evolve your starter, and the battles with Barry and Lucas/Dawn would put the other starters in your Pokédex. Oh, Lucas/Dawn only had multibattles with you and they never evolve into Torterra/Infernape/Empoleon? Well, maybe there should be added battles in the remake.

Do we ever get to fight Professor Rowan? I know that Professor battles are kind of overdone at this point but that’s be wicked cool.

No, we don't. The only Professors we've battled were Sycamore and Kukui. I guess it would be a great idea to add a Rowan battle that has six Pokémon that no trainer in Sinnoh has.