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Generation IV Remake Speculation

Will there be remakes in Gen VIII?


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I think one of the biggest problems with Gamefreaks remakes are they treat it as an exact 1+1 remake. While good, remaking a game should give developers an opportunity to strengthen their game. They could add more towns, different gyms, different characters. Let's Go (for all its flaws) was brave enough to diverge away from being an exact 1+1 remake of yellow.

Barely. All they really did was swap out Red, Green, and Blue for Chase/Eline and Trace and replace the wild battling with Go mechanics. I'd hardly call that "brave", that's actually the laziest way of diverging from RBY. There were no new towns or gyms added, the only new Pokemon were a Go exclusive event Pokemon and its evolution, and aside from swapping out protagonists and a Mina cameo there were no new characters either. You want to talk brave, BW2 is much braver in terms of adding new content. I do think remakes are too copy/paste and they could stand to take more liberties, but LGPE is a very poor example of the direction they should be going, BW2 is a much better example.
 
Barely. All they really did was swap out Red, Green, and Blue for Chase/Eline and Trace and replace the wild battling with Go mechanics. I'd hardly call that "brave", that's actually the laziest way of diverging from RBY. There were no new towns or gyms added, the only new Pokemon were a Go exclusive event Pokemon and its evolution, and aside from swapping out protagonists and a Mina cameo there were no new characters either. You want to talk brave, BW2 is much braver in terms of adding new content. I do think remakes are too copy/paste and they could stand to take more liberties, but LGPE is a very poor example of the direction they should be going, BW2 is a much better example.

They didn't even dare to commit cause Red, Green and Blue were still in the game.
 
Barely. All they really did was swap out Red, Green, and Blue for Chase/Eline and Trace and replace the wild battling with Go mechanics. I'd hardly call that "brave", that's actually the laziest way of diverging from RBY. There were no new towns or gyms added, the only new Pokemon were a Go exclusive event Pokemon and its evolution, and aside from swapping out protagonists and a Mina cameo there were no new characters either. You want to talk brave, BW2 is much braver in terms of adding new content. I do think remakes are too copy/paste and they could stand to take more liberties, but LGPE is a very poor example of the direction they should be going, BW2 is a much better example.

While I do agree that for all its flaws, BW2 did a lot of gameplay changes that I think were a net positive. It's important to keep in mind that there is a "weird budget" to keep in mind when designing anything, especially remakes or sequels.

If you make things too different from the way they were, you'll end up alienating people (see what happened with Dexit / no megas / no Z-Moves / Dynamax / DLC in Gen VIII). A lot of changes at once will scare people.

Considering Kanto is a very well know and loved region for fans, and the Let's Go mechanics is already a very big departure from the normal, doing more drastic changes to it is something that'd rightfully give pause to Game Freak.

That said, I do hope that the Gen IV games will have some more changes besides just being a remaster with some Gen V+ Pokémon thrown it. Maybe rework some of the gym puzzles, or make the doubles areas (like Eterna Forest and Wayward Cave) Wild Areas? It'd certainly help with the maze like feeling they were intended to have.
 
While I do agree that for all its flaws, BW2 did a lot of gameplay changes that I think were a net positive. It's important to keep in mind that there is a "weird budget" to keep in mind when designing anything, especially remakes or sequels.

If you make things too different from the way they were, you'll end up alienating people (see what happened with Dexit / no megas / no Z-Moves / Dynamax / DLC in Gen VIII). A lot of changes at once will scare people.

Considering Kanto is a very well know and loved region for fans, and the Let's Go mechanics is already a very big departure from the normal, doing more drastic changes to it is something that'd rightfully give pause to Game Freak.

The difference between SwSh's situation and BW2 was that SwSh's changes were more destructive whereas BW2's were more constructive. SwSh garnered a lot of complaints because a lot of mechanics and content were stripped away in favor of "improved graphics remade from scratch" which don't seem to have happened. It felt like a step backwards for the series. BW2 was the opposite, it added a lot to Unova and the series as a whole and raised the bar in terms of what a revisit to a previous region could do (which is also why there were a lot of complaints about no Z and USUM, again a step backwards from BW2). They do need to be careful about what they change, but the best way to avoid upsetting fans would be to expand on what they did, not remove or replace it. This is especially important in the console era where we're paying $20 more for Pokemon games and console fans expect ambitious experiences.

That said, I do hope that the Gen IV games will have some more changes besides just being a remaster with some Gen V+ Pokémon thrown it. Maybe rework some of the gym puzzles, or make the doubles areas (like Eterna Forest and Wayward Cave) Wild Areas? It'd certainly help with the maze like feeling they were intended to have.

A Wild Area would be a nice addition, but that could also be seen as a step backwards since Wild Areas tend to be emptier and simpler. I think the Safari Zone might be a good candidate for a Wild Area type of place, but other than that, I struggle to see where they could fit one in and I also struggle to see how it can help the areas feel more puzzling. If anything, I feel like the modern games are less puzzling than the original DPPt.
 
It wouldn't even be a remake anymore if they removed its post-game like that too.
The Battle Zone would still be in the remake. It's just accessible earlier. But if we really need the whole Battle Zone as post-game, Heatran's gotta be moved to the mainland. Sure, maybe a lot of you don't like my idea of seeing all 251 Pokémon in the Sinnoh Dex before the Elite Four to unlock the National Dex, but that is how I want Diamond and Pearl to be remade. But Stark Mountain is Heatran's home and the only volcano in Sinnoh. Well, since we can't get version exclusives without trading, and I think Cyrus should have the opposite box legendary, maybe Flint should have a Heatran just for you to see for your Pokédex so that it could be catchable post-game? One less legendary to be forced to catch. Heatran could replace Flint's Infernape.
 
The Battle Zone would still be in the remake. It's just accessible earlier. But if we really need the whole Battle Zone as post-game, Heatran's gotta be moved to the mainland. Sure, maybe a lot of you don't like my idea of seeing all 251 Pokémon in the Sinnoh Dex before the Elite Four to unlock the National Dex, but that is how I want Diamond and Pearl to be remade. But Stark Mountain is Heatran's home and the only volcano in Sinnoh. Well, since we can't get version exclusives without trading, and I think Cyrus should have the opposite box legendary, maybe Flint should have a Heatran just for you to see for your Pokédex so that it could be catchable post-game? One less legendary to be forced to catch. Heatran could replace Flint's Infernape.

I don't think you're going to get what you want. Forcing you to see every Pokemon in the Sinnoh Dex before unlocking the post game doesn't make sense in this day and age (and IMO it never did) and you're jumping through a whole lot of hoops to preserve something that most people probably don't want. So they're probably not going to bother and the simplest way to go about it is to just drop the requirement to see everything in the Sinnoh Dex.
 
The Battle Zone would still be in the remake. It's just accessible earlier.
That was Tuoko’s point. If it’s accessible earlier then that would mean it is no longer post-game.

Personally, I have no issue with the “Seen” Dex requirement for the National Dex. It was really easy to accomplish back then. Today, however, Regional Dexes are expected to be much larger and such a requirement may not be as realistic without a large overhaul of trainer rosters and required battles.
 
There’s just... a lot of very specific calls that have to be made before “moving Heatran to before the post-game” becomes even remotely likely:

1. Heatran was never in the Sinnoh Dex before, so that would have to change. They may or may not do this.

2. Needing to see all of the Pokémon/obtain the National Dex was never required of you, and could easily be put off until the post-game if you didn’t care about it. They would have to decide that “Actually, we are going to make this whole post-game island part of the main game now and throw a massive wrench into the natural progression of the game, because we’ve decided to not only retain this very quirky requirement for obtaining the National Dex, but also, we have decided to insist that you complete this task during the course of the main adventure.”

3. They would have to bring back the National Dex in the first place, which I don’t really think they’re inclined to do. Even if they restore all of the cut species from SwSh, that doesn’t mean the National Dex itself is coming back (we could easily just go back to how it was in Gen 7, with the National Dex being strictly a peripheral feature of HOME), and if it’s not there, then there’s no reason to have any sort of National Dex upgrade requirement anyway, and thus no pertinent reason to even think about moving the Stark Mountain section of the game.
 
It’s probably worth clarifying that a realistic “National Dex” by today’s standards is actually more of an “Extended Dex” akin to the Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra which I could see happening regardless of if it’s DLC; while the actual National Dex is all roughly 900 Pokémon which is highly unlikely.
 
It’s probably worth clarifying that a realistic “National Dex” by today’s standards is actually more of an “Extended Dex” akin to the Isle of Armor/Crown Tundra which I could see happening regardless of if it’s DLC; while the actual National Dex is all roughly 900 Pokémon which is highly unlikely.

Yeah, I could definitely see an expanded Sinnoh Dex with the Battle Zone and other post game Pokemon being unlocked after you beat the game. Doubly so if they want to cling to the same set of Pokemon in the main game, because they're going to need a sizeable chunk more than even Platinum's 210 to collect for there to be a satisfying amount of Pokemon available. I would say there should be at least 500 Pokemon total (and Platinum had just under 450/493, so this isn't an unreasonable request).
 
There should also be Pokemon that weren't in Sword and Shield dexes to be in the remake's dex to give players who bought the original Gen 8 games more of a reason to get the remakes. We can be sure that the rest of Gen 4 Pokemon will be in, but we're not sure about the others aside from those who were available in the original games.
 
There should also be Pokemon that weren't in Sword and Shield dexes to be in the remake's dex to give players who bought the original Gen 8 games more of a reason to get the remakes. We can be sure that the rest of Gen 4 Pokemon will be in, but we're not sure about the others aside from those who were available in the original games.

No excuse for them not to include all of the Pokemon not available in SwSh, those plus the Sinnoh Dex Pokemon add up to about 300-400 Pokemon. Again, more than reasonable.
 
There should also be Pokemon that weren't in Sword and Shield dexes to be in the remake's dex to give players who bought the original Gen 8 games more of a reason to get the remakes. We can be sure that the rest of Gen 4 Pokemon will be in, but we're not sure about the others aside from those who were available in the original games.
I agree. When they initially announced the removal of the National Dex, my hope was that they will still try to get every Pokemon included within the generation, even if you can't have them all in the same game.

Honestly, if they can get them all in it might actually be beneficial for some Pokemon. There have been several Pokemon that have rarely been obtainable in the main game. Deerling and Sawsbuck haven't been able to be caught in the main game since they were released in Gen 5. They were obtainable in Gen 6, but only with Friend Safari (X Y) and as hidden Pokemon (ORAS) (Poor Glameow is another Pokemon who has barely been obtainable, but it will automatically be available since it's Gen 4. Though it will probably be version exclusive again). If these Pokemon have to be included to fill out the rest of the dex that wasn't in SwSh, then that means they have a better chance to be obtainable in-game.
 
The reason GF stated for Sword&Shield to not have all Pokemon in it was how much time they need to do all these "animations" and balancing reasons (yeah sure), so there's literally no reason anymore for the Pokemon which were in Sword&Shield to not be in the next games.

SwSh with all the dlcs already has about 650 Pokemon with a lot of Sinnoh Pokemon missing. In that case they could go the full way and have the DP remakes the full roster and let the Dexit thing be a one time deal because making that happen twice would piss off the fanbase even more.

The same for the possibility of the Post-Game area to be dlc stuff. Pokemon like Heatran and the whole galactic post-game stuff is not really something for a dlc neither.
 
Do we really need 900 Pokemon in the living dex? For the sake of quality control, I would rather have 400 Pokemon and a game that is actually well-made. I really hope Gamefreak focuses on making Sinnoh as grand as possible - even if the dex is only around 400. Sinnoh is also the best designed region in terms of Pokemon, so finding a team of 6 would be easily.
 
Do we really need 900 Pokemon in the living dex? For the sake of quality control, I would rather have 400 Pokemon and a game that is actually well-made.
I mean, >90% of the Pokemon models and movesets already exist. All they'd really need to do is to set encounter rates in some grass and copy-paste the dex entries from DPPt into the game. They don't have to make any more, so all their time should theoretically be spent on everything other than the Pokemon, right? :unsure: If the quality of the game somehow ends up being "bad" to some people, I doubt it would be because the dex has 900 Pokemon in it. That would be the easy part for Game Freak.

Like, X and Y is generally considered weak, but I think most people agree that ORAS stepped up in a lot of areas, including graphics, character models and added features (DexNav and soaring in particular). The same thing can be said for DPPt compared to HGSS. I think there is no way that the game wouldn't be a step up from SwSh.

I wouldn't be opposed to having more Pokemon in the Sinnoh Dex. Maybe not 900, but enough so that the routes appear a lot more diverse than in DPPt.
 
So disappointed the Nintendo Direct didn't announce the Diamond and Pearl remakes...
Do we really need 900 Pokemon in the living dex? For the sake of quality control, I would rather have 400 Pokemon and a game that is actually well-made. I really hope Gamefreak focuses on making Sinnoh as grand as possible - even if the dex is only around 400. Sinnoh is also the best designed region in terms of Pokemon, so finding a team of 6 would be easily.
You don't have to make a living Dex. I don't even catch evolved forms.
 
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