Generation VI: The Future

[Esserise]

You know, setting aside my previous posts, I will say that I can appreciate all the storylines of Gens IV-VI as attempts to experiment. Gen IV was an attempt to take what RSE did and go bigger than ever with it... the problem, I think, is that "going bigger than ever" has historically always been a much better idea on paper. Gen V kinda goes without saying here, as it wears its experimentative nature on its sleeve. And then Gen VI was an attempt to centralize the story around a historical event and a human invention as opposed to a Legendary Pokémon... but they had to get Xerneas/Yveltal in there somehow, you know, and so they end up feeling very shoehorned in as a result. And in all fairness, the Delta Episode is probably some of the densest plot material that we've seen in a Pokémon game.

 

[Zweilous]

By recycling, I didn't mean re using, but just in spirit. It wouldn't be barebones, it could have other sub plots involving side missions, etc.

And yes, Gen III started the world menace trend, and they did very well. The thing is, 3 generations in a row have copied Gen III.

I don't necessarily disagree since I feel that Gen VI did feel at some points that the world menace trend was overdone (particularly with Xerneas/Yveltal, whom as Endolise said, felt pretty shoehorned in), I'm just a bit concerned with taking a step back from more involved plot as a whole. I don't think that just because they've redone a particular plot thread doesn't mean that it has to be cut out entirely, it just means that it has to be explored through a different ways. For instance, one way could be to have you assist in the research of a professor and then uncover the legendary through a sequence of discoveries and that could allow the region to be expanded without completely retreading the same ground.

Having said that, I also would like having your idea too, it just depends on how involved the subplots are.

I think that was very much part of the appeal for some people. It was minimal, and mysterious, and the player had to go out of their way to find these legendary Pokemon. Not meeting them in some crazy cosmic turn of events. I think it has that stronger feeling of exploration & adventure to it.

Speaking of Gen III, the way the Regi were handled in Hoenn was brilliant. The Braille puzzles were masterfully done, imo.

I do see the appeal of that, the Regis I feel are an excellent example since they play up the mysterious aspect of them and use a "minimalist" approach with the lore, but it all came together into a collective whole and that made finding out their story and catching them all the more exciting. I'd even go as far as to say that they were one of my favorite legendary sidequests in the franchise and I'd love to see the series do more with that idea.

It's just that with Johto (probably as a consequence of when it came out), I feel that it's a bit too minimal in areas as some pieces of the lore aren't fully explored to give that collective whole a stronger presence. To use Lugia again, I feel there are a good number of missed opportunities with it as they don't fully explore its nature, and I think that if it had a sidequest similar to what the Regis got could've helped.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I wonder why Lugia wasn't in XY. The area where you catch Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres would have been perfect for it. They could have made it so that by collecting all three birds, you would be able to encounter Lugia with all three in party. Perhaps they could do that for Z but unlikely as Lugia can be caught in ORAS. The cafes in XY had pictures of Raikou, Entei and Suicune even though they are not in the region which is weird. Why show us pictures if they are not going to be in the game. Maybe Z could have them as well but unlikely.

 

[NinjutsuSen]

I wonder why Lugia wasn't in XY. The area where you catch Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres would have been perfect for it. They could have made it so that by collecting all three birds, you would be able to encounter Lugia with all three in party. Perhaps they could do that for Z but unlikely as Lugia can be caught in ORAS. The cafes in XY had pictures of Raikou, Entei and Suicune even though they are not in the region which is weird. Why show us pictures if they are not going to be in the game. Maybe Z could have them as well but unlikely.

You can catch Moltres, Articuno and Zapdos in Platinum, but they still included them in HG/SS. Not including Lugia for the third version is not a given.

 

[LadySasaki]

My problem with Kalos isn't that it's linear, it's that it uses the illusion of grandeur to hide how little content is going on.

A few of the more notable examples:

-Lumiose City is a massive bugbear with me. It has fifteen cafes - FIFTEEN!!! - yet only one of them, Lysandre's, serves a purpose. (Well, ok, one person in one of them gives you a new phrase for your PR video every day. But given that PR videos were about as popular as the Musicals was back in Unova, it hardly counts. And that still leaves thirteen cafes which are utterly useless.) Lumiose should have been half the size, and more densely packed in what it has to offer instead of confusing the hell out of players with a relentlessly endless maze that makes you cover a lot of ground between sparsely distributed points of interest.

-The Parfum Palace is massive and gorgeous, and yet there is only 1 quick task to do...which doesn't even happen in the palace, but out in the back garden. (They could have made this at least bearable if the fireworks were a daily event, like the summer firework shows in Animal Crossing.)

-Don't even get me started on Shabboneu Castle.

--What in the name of buttery Jesus was Route 1!? That's not a route, it's a driveway with its own theme music. It didn't even have grass to encounter wild Pokemon. Not kidding - first time I started my journey I came to the end of route 1, did a double take, and went back because I was convinced I had missed something.


In every Pokemon game, there are buildings you simply can't access which are only there for scenery purposes, to make a city look 'big'. I'm thinking of Celadon and Saffron back in Kanto. But that's ok; I understand that. What I don't like is lots of open places that invite you in and offer you absolutely nothing towards your overall experience. It is boring, and makes you wonder why they wasted time creating it. Kalos is VERY guilty of this, and I want Z to fix it.

 

[Boss1708]

I know I said we shouldn't overhype the next game, but after they had two years of development, and it's the Anniversary, they better give us a nearly perfect game, be it Z, Kanto, gen VII, whatever.

But, considering they gave us Diamond and Pearl for the 10th Anniversary... Don't expect the best game ever.

I definitely agree for a Kalos redeeming game, just cause it's fair and it has potential, but inside of me, I hope it's a Kanto re-visit (gen VI), or a new region (Gen VII).

I am especially hoping for a Guyana based region, maybe to celebrate the Anniversary, but i don't expect it, at least this year.

 

[tyguy723]

My problem with Kalos isn't that it's linear, it's that it uses the illusion of grandeur to hide how little content is going on.

A few of the more notable examples:

-Lumiose City is a massive bugbear with me. It has fifteen cafes - FIFTEEN!!! - yet only one of them, Lysandre's, serves a purpose. (Well, ok, one person in one of them gives you a new phrase for your PR video every day. But given that PR videos were about as popular as the Musicals was back in Unova, it hardly counts. And that still leaves thirteen cafes which are utterly useless.) Lumiose should have been half the size, and more densely packed in what it has to offer instead of confusing the hell out of players with a relentlessly endless maze that makes you cover a lot of ground between sparsely distributed points of interest.

-The Parfum Palace is massive and gorgeous, and yet there is only 1 quick task to do...which doesn't even happen in the palace, but out in the back garden. (They could have made this at least bearable if the fireworks were a daily event, like the summer firework shows in Animal Crossing.)

-Don't even get me started on Shabboneu Castle.

--What in the name of buttery Jesus was Route 1!? That's not a route, it's a driveway with its own theme music. It didn't even have grass to encounter wild Pokemon. Not kidding - first time I started my journey I came to the end of route 1, did a double take, and went back because I was convinced I had missed something.


In every Pokemon game, there are buildings you simply can't access which are only there for scenery purposes, to make a city look 'big'. I'm thinking of Celadon and Saffron back in Kanto. But that's ok; I understand that. What I don't like is lots of open places that invite you in and offer you absolutely nothing towards your overall experience. It is boring, and makes you wonder why they wasted time creating it. Kalos is VERY guilty of this, and I want Z to fix it.

It seems to be a classic case of how some students do their projects in school: dazzle them with your bulls*** to distract one from realizing you don't have much to offer. Basically what XY are to me: a very pretty game, with little to no substance with the pretty features presented. Hopefully Z or whatever can redeem it like you said, fill these buildings with actual things to do.

Like what if the cafes were filled with people that gave you missions to go do? I honestly hope that Lumiose's various sections become a little bit more distinguishable, because trekking that city was a nightmare

And LOL @ route 1, I was disappointed with it as well and to me it felt like more pandering to the "the games are too difficult" crowd therefore we got a route no matter who played it you could get through

 

[Lufenium]

Kalos Route 1 was very pretty...but that was it. It made me wonder was there even much point in distinguishing Vaniville from Aquacorde. They may as well have been one town with a very pretty pathway connecting the different areas.

 

[Bolt Strike]

What? Content varies each generation 2 and BW2 have the most content, Gen 4 in more than Gen 3 and Gen 6 more than 1 and 3.

2nd gen doesn't really have a lot of content. There's slightly more areas than usual, but that's about it, there's pretty much nothing to do after you beat Red. 5th gen had a decent amount of extra content, but toned down the number of areas and paths, so in that respect it does have decreased content from 4th gen. And then 6th gen is the lowest we've had since RS.

Difficulty in BW2 was also one, if not the highest in the franchise, while Gen 6 is the second easiert after Gen 2.

BW2 isn't that hard, and any difficulty it does have is artificial due to not having sufficient options for Pokemon (better Fighting types before the 1st gym would make Cheren a cakewalk, and Drayden would also be easy if most of the good Ice and Dragon types were accessible by that point. Lack of breeding before post game also limits your options unless you want to trade). 5th gen took a major nosedive in difficulty thanks to increased handholding and streamlined team design, and 6th gen made it even worse with the EXP system.

 

[NinjutsuSen]

In every Pokemon game, there are buildings you simply can't access which are only there for scenery purposes, to make a city look 'big'. I'm thinking of Celadon and Saffron back in Kanto. But that's ok; I understand that. What I don't like is lots of open places that invite you in and offer you absolutely nothing towards your overall experience. It is boring, and makes you wonder why they wasted time creating it. Kalos is VERY guilty of this, and I want Z to fix it.

Unacecessable building in XY are the Lumiose City building, and every bic city, especially Castelia, have these. I don't remember any other building, that you can't access in XY, so I don't understand your problem

2nd gen doesn't really have a lot of content. There's slightly more areas than usual, but that's about it, there's pretty much nothing to do after you beat Red. 5th gen had a decent amount of extra content, but toned down the number of areas and paths, so in that respect it does have decreased content from 4th gen. And then 6th gen is the lowest we've had since RS.

Gen 2 have 46 (48) routes and 20 (21) towns and many optional caves etc. With the additions in HG/SS, it's with BW2 the game with the most things to do. Gen 4 have 1 more town and 9 more routes than Kalos. BW2 did have 23 towns, 23 long routes and a crap ton of sidequest and other thins like the PWT, legendary, new places, the challenges etc.

BW2 isn't that hard, and any difficulty it does have is artificial due to not having sufficient options for Pokemon (better Fighting types before the 1st gym would make Cheren a cakewalk, and Drayden would also be easy if most of the good Ice and Dragon types were accessible by that point. Lack of breeding before post game also limits your options unless you want to trade). 5th gen took a major nosedive in difficulty thanks to increased handholding and streamlined team design, and 6th gen made it even worse with the EXP system.

Yeah and the exp system in BW2 was the reason, why the leveling was harder. And still the level curve was about the same like in Sinnoh with a smaller main game. XY was second easiert, but it had the absolute highest level curve of any pokemon game and without the EXP Share, you was still underleveled, They just need to give the exp share after the e4 and give every leader and e4 member one more pokemon at the problem should be solved.

Also what did you want to tell me with Cheren and Drayden? Yeah, there are no good pokemon against them to catch. Then I could say, that I can one shot with dragon types, that can learn Dragon Rage, if there was one to catch in the first route.

EDIT: Yeah was more focused on the BW2 routes. But quite many are still long like the one before the Cave with Kyurem.

 

[Bolt Strike]

BW2 did have 23 towns, 23 long routes and a crap ton of sidequest and other thins like the PWT, legendary, new places, the challenges etc.

Most of Unova's routes aren't that long. Hoenn and Sinnoh are the only regions with a lot of long routes.

 

[godiego]

My problem with Kalos isn't that it's linear, it's that it uses the illusion of grandeur to hide how little content is going on.

i'm confused. any page back the simple retort would be 'BUT THAT'S IMMERSION-- IT'S FINE IF IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING-- BLAH BLAH BLAH IMMERSION' and yet? people are complaining that concepts that are quite clearly there for fluff (cafés, hotels, skate tricks) are now detrimental to Kalos?

anyways, back to the weather. there is a 100% chance of Pokemon fans flip-flopping on what they want. pack your umbrellas yall.

-Lumiose City is a massive bugbear with me. It has fifteen cafes - FIFTEEN!!! - yet only one of them, Lysandre's, serves a purpose.

none of the cafés peppered throughout Kalos serve much of any purpose beyond immersion. and neither do the hotels. or Cyllage City's bike track. but what are they there for? immersion.

Lumiose should have been half the size, and more densely packed in what it has to offer instead of confusing the hell out of players with a relentlessly endless maze that makes you cover a lot of ground between sparsely distributed points of interest.

and then you're left with the very pathetic Castelia City, which given its source material, could have been so so so much more interesting. on the maze bit: taxis. not that hard. how do you feel about Mauville City?

-The Parfum Palace is massive and gorgeous, and yet there is only 1 quick task to do...which doesn't even happen in the palace, but out in the back garden. (They could have made this at least bearable if the fireworks were a daily event, like the summer firework shows in Animal Crossing.)

i mean, that's very Pokemon though. there's been loads of instances throughout the game where big things are actually tiny and ultimately pointless. see: Silph Co., Mt. Coronet, Sinnoh's Lakefronts, Scorched Slab (in RSE), Fiery Path, Mt. Chimney, Jagged Pass (in RS), the sandstorm area of Route 111, Iron Island, Fullmoon Island

-Don't even get me started on Shabboneu Castle.

(see: above)

--What in the name of buttery Jesus was Route 1!? That's not a route, it's a driveway with its own theme music. It didn't even have grass to encounter wild Pokemon. Not kidding - first time I started my journey I came to the end of route 1, did a double take, and went back because I was convinced I had missed something.

i'll give you this one. i think it was a bit of a miss to give that path Route 1. that being said, i at least enjoyed the sort of mixing it up and risk GameFreak took in doing that. after GSC their Route 1s were starting to get a bit stale anyways.

In every Pokemon game, there are buildings you simply can't access which are only there for scenery purposes, to make a city look 'big'. I'm thinking of Celadon and Saffron back in Kanto. But that's ok; I understand that. What I don't like is lots of open places that invite you in and offer you absolutely nothing towards your overall experience. It is boring, and makes you wonder why they wasted time creating it. Kalos is VERY guilty of this, and I want Z to fix it.

using dummy/empty buildings is not all that great for design, especially in the context of Pokemon. the empty buildings GameFreak used in previous generation created a problem of cities that are functionally empty as well. Saffron City, outside of its PC, Mart, Gym, and Silph Co., has two houses. and it's supposed to be based off Tokyo. and a large city. it's the second largest city in Kanto and yet it doesn't read that way because all it has is the two houses. it doesn't feel like anyone actually lives there. this is contrasted with Kalosian (or even Unovan) cities where regardless of their size, it feels real and as if people live there; because they are fleshed out.

ultimately it all comes back to immersion. Kalos may be guilty of some linearity or coming up short in meaningful content, but when it comes to immersion, Kalos has done the best job of just about any region (short perhaps Unova or Gen VI Hoenn).

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I definitely agree for a Kalos redeeming game, just cause it's fair and it has potential, but inside of me, I hope it's a Kanto re-visit (gen VI), or a new region (Gen VII).

Considering that Kanto is going on the virtual console, I say that is pretty unlikely and we have gotten enough Kanto games (RBY, GSC, FRLG and HGSS). Too early for gen 7 and they would focus on the gen 7 legendary than Zygarde. One more Kalos games isn't going to hurt anyone and it would give Zygarde focus.

Legendary pokemon that I think would be in Z: Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mewtwo, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Lugia, Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem. Reason for Lugia: Sea Spirit Den seems to be a reference to it. Reason for Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem: statues of Reshiram and Zekrom were found in XY. Kyurem would appear when you have both.

 

[Boss1708]

Considering that Kanto is going on the virtual console, I say that is pretty unlikely and we have gotten enough Kanto games (RBY, GSC, FRLG and HGSS). Too early for gen 7 and they would focus on the gen 7 legendary than Zygarde. One more Kalos games isn't going to hurt anyone and it would give Zygarde focus.

Legendary pokemon that I think would be in Z: Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mewtwo, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Lugia, Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem. Reason for Lugia: Sea Spirit Den seems to be a reference to it. Reason for Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem: statues of Reshiram and Zekrom were found in XY. Kyurem would appear when you have both.

I think it's only fair if a Kalos game is next. I would just prefer a Kanto revisit, or a new region, especially Guyana. I am supporting Kalos next only because it's fair.

 

[Esserise]

I think it's only fair if a Kalos game is next. I would just prefer a Kanto revisit, or a new region, especially Guyana. I am supporting Kalos next only because it's fair.

Eh, fair-schmair I say, when that's all that a "Z" game would really have to offer - a few touch-ups and new areas for Kalos, maybe some new clothes, and Zygarde forms that already had their time in the limelight. Which to me all sounds booooooooring.

 

[tyguy723]

i'm confused. any page back the simple retort would be 'BUT THAT'S IMMERSION-- IT'S FINE IF IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING-- BLAH BLAH BLAH IMMERSION' and yet? people are complaining that concepts that are quite clearly there for fluff (cafés, hotels, skate tricks) are now detrimental to Kalos?

anyways, back to the weather. there is a 100% chance of Pokemon fans flip-flopping on what they want. pack your umbrellas yall.

none of the cafés peppered throughout Kalos serve much of any purpose beyond immersion. and neither do the hotels. or Cyllage City's bike track. but what are they there for? immersion.

and then you're left with the very pathetic Castelia City, which given its source material, could have been so so so much more interesting. on the maze bit: taxis. not that hard. how do you feel about Mauville City?

i mean, that's very Pokemon though. there's been loads of instances throughout the game where big things are actually tiny and ultimately pointless. see: Silph Co., Mt. Coronet, Sinnoh's Lakefronts, Scorched Slab (in RSE), Fiery Path, Mt. Chimney, Jagged Pass (in RS), the sandstorm area of Route 111, Iron Island, Fullmoon Island

(see: above)

i'll give you this one. i think it was a bit of a miss to give that path Route 1. that being said, i at least enjoyed the sort of mixing it up and risk GameFreak took in doing that. after GSC their Route 1s were starting to get a bit stale anyways.

using dummy/empty buildings is not all that great for design, especially in the context of Pokemon. the empty buildings GameFreak used in previous generation created a problem of cities that are functionally empty as well. Saffron City, outside of its PC, Mart, Gym, and Silph Co., has two houses. and it's supposed to be based off Tokyo. and a large city. it's the second largest city in Kanto and yet it doesn't read that way because all it has is the two houses. it doesn't feel like anyone actually lives there. this is contrasted with Kalosian (or even Unovan) cities where regardless of their size, it feels real and as if people live there; because they are fleshed out.

ultimately it all comes back to immersion. Kalos may be guilty of some linearity or coming up short in meaningful content, but when it comes to immersion, Kalos has done the best job of just about any region (short perhaps Unova or Gen VI Hoenn).

I think we all understand that maybe they are trying to create immersion.........but like is it really immersing yourself if all you're doing is going to a place and looking? I feel like maybe they don't understand that to immerse oneself into the game there has to be something to actually do at said area that looks very pretty. I think what @LadySasaki was saying is that by now in the franchise these empty areas should mean something other than to walk through one time and be done.

 

[Lufenium]

a few touch-ups and new areas for Kalos, maybe some new clothes, and Zygarde forms that already had their time in the limelight. Which to me all sounds booooooooring.

Compare that to the new Pokemon, new region, new characters, legendaries, megas, moves, potential new types, etc of a new gen.

I know which one I'm picking! *puts on my Gen VII hat and blows a party blower*

 

[Boss1708]

T

Eh, fair-schmair I say, when that's all that a "Z" game would really have to offer - a few touch-ups and new areas for Kalos, maybe some new clothes, and Zygarde forms that already had their time in the limelight. Which to me all sounds booooooooring.

To me too man, that's why I said fair, not desirable. XD

As I said in an other thread, it's the first time ever that I'm not delighted with Masuda's choice for inspiration. France is not adventurous, it is bland, and superficial in feel. Kalos is very faithful to France, and that is exactly what I dislike about it. Game Freak recreated France amazingly well. But I just happen to dislike the source material GF used. I'm tired of all that superficial feel to the game. But I'm blaming GF for that, not Kalos.

So yeah, I'm tired of Kalos too, but many fans like Kalos so they should have an other game I guess.

Besides, I like Gen VI. I would like an other Gen VI game, just in Guyana or something anniversary- ish.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I think it's only fair if a Kalos game is next. I would just prefer a Kanto revisit, or a new region, especially Guyana. I am supporting Kalos next only because it's fair.

Kanto has no purpose left to be revisit. People can get RBY on the virtual console if they want to play Kanto games. Or replay FRLG for old times sake. Unless they improve the Kanto plot, I don't want it to resurface again and it is too soon for Kanto anyway. XY is basically Kanto 2.0 with all those Kanto references. Let Z have it's moment in the mean time.

 

[LadySasaki]

I think we all understand that maybe they are trying to create immersion.........but like is it really immersing yourself if all you're doing is going to a place and looking? I feel like maybe they don't understand that to immerse oneself into the game there has to be something to actually do at said area that looks very pretty. I think what @LadySasaki was saying is that by now in the franchise these empty areas should mean something other than to walk through one time and be done.

BINGO. Immersion my ass - those cafes enraged me. Between seeking out every single one, and speaking to every single NPC within, they're 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Pokemon is an RPG, not a build-a-world sim - I want the environments to actually have a point. The cafe in Animal Crossing actually has more point than Lumiose's cafes - at least there were daily events in there and you could work towards getting an item!

The smallest thing could have given those cafes purpose. A trainer in each one, offering a trade. A daily battle. Someone to give you an item at a certain time of day. Instead we got...nothing. I'd rather have a closed-off piece of scenery than that, at least then I know there's nothing for me there and can move on elsewhere.

Again, it wouldn't be so bad if it was one just one thing in Kalos. But so much of Kalos is like this, and the prettiness doesn't excuse it. I love New Mauville, and Castelia, because there was a decent amount to do and it was all packed in tightly. The sheer amount of travelling you need to do around Lumiose is an irritation; there's just no need for it.

Unacecessable building in XY are the Lumiose City building, and every bic city, especially Castelia, have these. I don't remember any other building, that you can't access in XY, so I don't understand your problem.

Um. Re-read my post, I don't think it means what you think it means ^^;