Generation VI: The Future

[Silktree]

What exactly limits New 3DS-enhanced games from achieving the same graphical quality as New 3DS-exclusive games? They both use the same upgraded CPU. Don't they merely switch between the weaker and stronger graphics depending on the system you're playing on?

I believe that the enhancements can only involve higher-resolution textures, better anti-aliasing, better frame rate and better loading times. Exclusive games can also benefit from having more models on screen and higher polycount, which would be tricky to handle with 3DS backwards compatibility.

Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate does not necessarily represent the extent of graphical leap that is possible with an enhnacement (it is a launch title, after all). But even if it is, I don't see the problem. The game looks a lot better than XY and ORAS, honestly. Even the first Yokai Watch game (released in 2013 for the regular 3DS) has better visuals than the Generation VI games do.

 

[Bolt Strike]

It's from this page. Here are the highlights:

Following the generally accepted theory on platform lifecycles, it is natural for you to presume that the sales of Nintendo 3DS will drop X percent each year or we cannot expect a huge increase in Wii U sales. On another front, we have witnessed one single software title completely change the entire picture of our business many times. I believe one of the most impressive stories was the time when people thought the Game Boy platform was virtually over. However, a software title called "Pokémon" turned things around for the platform and ended up creating the biggest annual sales for Game Boy in the latter half of the platform’s eventual lifecycle. Therefore, we do not believe that the situation so far means that there will not be a bright future.

Taking this into account, the strong start for New Nintendo 3DS implies it has the potential to create a scenario that deviates from the assumption that the Nintendo 3DS business is going to shrink because it has entered the latter half of its lifecycle.

Our goal of the fiscal year ending March 2017 will be to make the video game business robust. If our software were not receiving high evaluations from both professional reviewers and consumers, our ability to create marketable products and services itself must be questioned. However, since this is not the case, and our products are receiving high scores but are still not selling as expected, there is much to be done in the way we incorporate aspects into our products that sell themselves, and in the way we communicate with consumers to promote and sell our products. And that is the area we are going to focus on. From this perspective, I give first priority to the improvement of our core business. In addition, I envision added profits from our new businesses and then eventually we will be able to achieve Nintendo-like profits. That is all I can tell you today.

Iwata specifically compares the situation to the way Generation I's late release turned things around for the Game Boy. They probably aren't banking just on Pokémon (Yokai Watch is growing strong in Japan and will be localized by Nintendo next year), but I can't imagine that it isn't a big part of the plan. For that matter, a Kalos game is unlikely to increase the installed base or mark an improvement from the sales of previous releases, which is what they're focusing on now.

That doesn't necessarily mean that Pokemon is going to be the game to generate interest in the 3DS. Pokemon turned things around for the Game Boy because it so perfectly demonstrated the usefulness of a handheld console. It doesn't do the same for the 3DS. Also, 5th gen sold less than 4th gen and ended up hurting the 3DS in the long run, so it's not exactly a smart move for them to repeat that strategy. And since there's not much that can be done gameplay wise with 3D, I doubt the 3DS will see a similar situation (the Wii U might because the Gamepad has been criminally underutilized its whole life, but again, Pokemon wouldn't be the game to save it.).

I don't see how they can feasibly release a NX game in 2017 without rushing it (to the point where it would look like a port of a 3DS game). On the other hand, they could very well release it in late 2018 or early 2019 even if they released a second 3DS-based generation in early 2016. Basically, they have more to gain from sticking to the 3DS for a while longer, and they most certainly won't draw out the current generation for 5 years (even 4 years would be a stretch with how things have been going).

2016 is probably not going to be 6th gen. We have one more set of games hidden in the coding, and Zygarde still hasn't had his new forms or any kind of promotion yet. That pushes 7th gen back to 2017/2018. And they've been thinking about 7th gen for at least a year, so 2017 wouldn't be rushed. And considering that Pokemon games are never graphically impressive, it's probably not going to look that great anyway.

 

[Silktree]

That doesn't necessarily mean that Pokemon is going to be the game to generate interest in the 3DS. Pokemon turned things around for the Game Boy because it so perfectly demonstrated the usefulness of a handheld console. It doesn't do the same for the 3DS.

Why doesn't it do that for the 3DS? Or rather, why can't it do that?

Also, 5th gen sold less than 4th gen and ended up hurting the 3DS in the long run, so it's not exactly a smart move for them to repeat that strategy.

It sold better than the current generation and there is no way to tell that it would have been more successful on the 3DS. Besides, the NX won't be hurt at all if Generation VIII is released by the end of the 2018 fiscal year. And if you're so against releasing two generations for the same system, what do you think is going to happen with the NX after 4 years if Generation VII is released upon launch?

And since there's not much that can be done gameplay wise with 3D, I doubt the 3DS will see a similar situation

They're probably more interested in Amiibo at this point. We know that Masuda wants to utilize Amiibo and the New 3DS, and that he didn't consider ORAS suited for them due to compatibility with XY.

2016 is probably not going to be 6th gen. We have one more set of games hidden in the coding, and Zygarde still hasn't had his new forms or any kind of promotion yet.

The game origin IDs don't have to mean anything (considering the multitude of unused slots from previous generations), and 2015 is far from over. Zygarde can still be promoted as part of this generation and possibly the next one even if it isn't used as a mascot. Mewtwo and Rayquaza prove that.

And they've been thinking about 7th gen for at least a year, so 2017 wouldn't be rushed.

Just planning the games isn't enough. A new generation requires two years of actual development, and they need a development kit for that. There is no sign of such a kit existing for the NX (the 3DS one was only made available a year ahead of release).

And considering that Pokemon games are never graphically impressive, it's probably not going to look that great anyway.

They would have looked worse had they been released alongside their respective systems.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Why doesn't it do that for the 3DS? Or rather, why can't it do that?

The stereoscopic 3D is more of a graphical improvement than a gameplay improvement, so it's hard to sell that as being useful.

Besides, the NX won't be hurt at all if Generation VIII is released by the end of the 2018 fiscal year.

Which it won't if we get a 7th gen on the 3DS. That's going to push it too far back.

The game origin IDs don't have to mean anything (considering the multitude of unused slots from previous generations), and 2015 is far from over.

Except we've had 3 games in a row. A 2015 game would certainly be rushed.

Zygarde can still be promoted as part of this generation and possibly the next one even if it isn't used as a mascot. Mewtwo and Rayquaza prove that.

It's going to be harder to promote if he isn't, though.

Just planning the games isn't enough. A new generation requires two years of actual development, and they need a development kit for that. There is no sign of such a kit existing for the NX (the 3DS one was only made available a year ahead of release).

And how do you know that they don't have the dev kit? They may not be able to wait until the year before if they want a decent launch lineup. And even if it does, they'd still have time for a 2018 release.

They would have looked worse had they been released alongside their respective systems.

Most people probably aren't going to care. Again, it's not the most graphically impressive game and it still outsells a ton of better looking games.

 

[Mitchman]

Silktree is likely referring to end of year advertisement for Zygarde which I agree with. And a 5 year generation, really? That is a ridiculous piece of speculation, coming from you at least.

 

[WallflowerCanyon]

I don't think another Gen 6 installment being released in the fall of this year(2015) wouldn't be rushing it. By that time, it will be almost a full year since ORAS has been released and a full 2 years since X and Y first come out. A Gen 7 debut, weelllll.... yeah, I think that may be pushing it just a tiny bit. If Gen 7 were to be released in the fall of this year, that would give a lot of people the impression that not a lot of work was put into a brand-new Generation when there technically should be.

 

[Extroth]

I don't think another Gen 6 installment being released in the fall of this year(2015) wouldn't be rushing it. By that time, it will be almost a full year since ORAS has been released and a full 2 years since X and Y first come out. A Gen 7 debut, weelllll.... yeah, I think that may be pushing it just a tiny bit. If Gen 7 were to be released in the fall of this year, that would give a lot of people the impression that not a lot of work was put into a brand-new Generation when there technically should be.

You know this brings up an interesting point; how do Pokemon games work in terms of development? It didn't really feel like they had enough time to work on ORAS after development of X and Y would have ended.

Let's see X and Y released on October 12, 2013 and ORAS came out on November 21, 2014 so if they could only work on one Pokemon game at a time then they would have had about a year to do that. Yeah I'm not buying that they could do that in a year say what you will about ORAS it wasn't THAT rushed.

So why is it so unreasonable that they've been working on 7th gen all this time especially since we have the strange souvenir as evidence that they were at least thinking about it during the X and Y development cycle.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don't think another Gen 6 installment being released in the fall of this year(2015) wouldn't be rushing it. By that time, it will be almost a full year since ORAS has been released and a full 2 years since X and Y first come out. A Gen 7 debut, weelllll.... yeah, I think that may be pushing it just a tiny bit. If Gen 7 were to be released in the fall of this year, that would give a lot of people the impression that not a lot of work was put into a brand-new Generation when there technically should be.

Even if 7th gen debuted next year it would still feel too soon without a third set of games.

I don't think another Gen 6 installment being released in the fall of this year(2015) wouldn't be rushing it. By that time, it will be almost a full year since ORAS has been released and a full 2 years since X and Y first come out. A Gen 7 debut, weelllll.... yeah, I think that may be pushing it just a tiny bit. If Gen 7 were to be released in the fall of this year, that would give a lot of people the impression that not a lot of work was put into a brand-new Generation when there technically should be.

You know this brings up an interesting point; how do Pokemon games work in terms of development? It didn't really feel like they had enough time to work on ORAS after development of X and Y would have ended.

Let's see X and Y released on October 12, 2013 and ORAS came out on November 21, 2014 so if they could only work on one Pokemon game at a time then they would have had about a year to do that. Yeah I'm not buying that they could do that in a year say what you will about ORAS it wasn't THAT rushed.

So why is it so unreasonable that they've been working on 7th gen all this time especially since we have the strange souvenir as evidence that they were at least thinking about it during the X and Y development cycle.

There's two development teams, so they can work on two at a time. IIRC the first team works on the first game of the generation and the second works on third versions and remakes.

 

[CyberSerperior]

According to the interview at the front of the ORAS strategy guide, the developers worked on XY and ORAS together, as they have similar themes and it was intended for players to play both games together. Which explains the close release dates.

To me, this means the next games are well into development already. In fact, the strange souvenir indicates they've been in the works since X and Y.

 

[Silktree]

The stereoscopic 3D is more of a graphical improvement than a gameplay improvement, so it's hard to sell that as being useful.

So? The 3DS is still a handheld system and a game doesn't have to focus on stereoscopic 3D to "demonstrate the usefulness of a handheld console". I don't see what makes you say that whatever Nintendo is planning for the 3DS doesn't involve Pokémon. My guess is that Iwata was referring to both Pokémon and Yokai Watch, and maybe even Level-5's upcoming series (Snack World, which I doubt will be that successful). I find it hard to believe that Nintendo is banking on something else.

Which it won't if we get a 7th gen on the 3DS. That's going to push it too far back.

If both this generation and the next last 2.5 years (like Generation V outside Japan), Generation VIII will be ready for release by late 2018. That would definitely make more sense than drawing out this generation for 5 years, or releasing an NX game in 2017.

Except we've had 3 games in a row. A 2015 game would certainly be rushed.

That is not what I meant. I think that Zygarde, Eternal Floette and Volcanion may still be used this year for the TCG, anime and some sort of Kalos-related spin-off game or app, as a way to wrap up this generation and lead to the next. Zygarde's forms would be kept for the next generation, but Zygarde itself could be distributed to the current games with its hidden moves as a pre-cursor to that.

And how do you know that they don't have the dev kit? They may not be able to wait until the year before if they want a decent launch lineup.

If development kits were already out, other developers would have access and it wouldn't be a secret. No one in the industry even knows what the NX is exactly.

The NX should be fine in 2017 if Nintendo port a decent number of Wii U games, such as Pokkén and Zelda U. Game Freak releasing an n3DS-exclusive game would also help, as it would be an incentive for quite a lot of people to jump from the 3DS to the NX.

And even if it does, they'd still have time for a 2018 release.

They'll have that time even if there is a second 3DS-based generation. They have more to gain from making the most of the 3DS until then.

According to the interview at the front of the ORAS strategy guide, the developers worked on XY and ORAS together, as they have similar themes and it was intended for players to play both games together. Which explains the close release dates.

Actually, that interview states that ORAS were being developed for a year, which means that most of the staff had to finish with XY first (even Shigeru Ohmori, the director, only started sketching ideas for ORAS in early 2013 after being done with XY). It's B2W2 and XY that had overlapping development periods.

We know that Masuda had little involvement with ORAS; it's all but certain that he was working on the next generation. That alone doesn't mean that it is necessarily the next release, but it wouldn't be rushed if released in early 2016.

 

[Bolt Strike]

So? The 3DS is still a handheld system and a game doesn't have to focus on stereoscopic 3D to "demonstrate the usefulness of a handheld console".

Except the stereoscopic 3D is the key defining feature of the 3DS, so marketing the 3D is a good way to attract a larger userbase.

I don't see what makes you say that whatever Nintendo is planning for the 3DS doesn't involve Pokémon. My guess is that Iwata was referring to both Pokémon and Yokai Watch, and maybe even Level-5's upcoming series (Snack World, which I doubt will be that successful). I find it hard to believe that Nintendo is banking on something else.

It doesn't need to be a new generation though, any kind of main series Pokemon game has enough brand power to carry the lineup. In fact ORAS was practically the end all be all of the 3DS' Holiday 2014 lineup.

If both this generation and the next last 2.5 years (like Generation V outside Japan), Generation VIII will be ready for release by late 2018. That would definitely make more sense than drawing out this generation for 5 years, or releasing an NX game in 2017.

2.5 years is too short for a generation, and I doubt they'd base their release schedule after the international release dates.

That is not what I meant. I think that Zygarde, Eternal Floette and Volcanion may still be used this year for the TCG, anime and some sort of Kalos-related spin-off game or app, as a way to wrap up this generation and lead to the next. Zygarde's forms would be kept for the next generation, but Zygarde itself could be distributed to the current games with its hidden moves as a pre-cursor to that.

Between the three of them that's way too much marketing to leave it to spinoffs, that'd be underwhelming and would make those forms feel like an afterthought.

 

[Silktree]

Except the stereoscopic 3D is the key defining feature of the 3DS, so marketing the 3D is a good way to attract a larger userbase.

That strategy hasn't really worked and I doubt that the casual consumers (that Iwata wants to bring back) are interested in stereoscopic 3D. But regardless of which feature is going to be the focus in 2016, there is no reason why Pokémon couldn't be the poster boy for it.

It doesn't need to be a new generation though, any kind of main series Pokemon game has enough brand power to carry the lineup. In fact ORAS was practically the end all be all of the 3DS' Holiday 2014 lineup.

Iwata is referring to a turning point, rather than more of the same. Kalos games wouldn't even be as successful as ORAS judging from B2W2.

2.5 years is too short for a generation,

It's a bit ridiculous to say that half a year makes such a difference. A second 3DS-based generation shouldn't require as much development as XY did. As for the transition to the NX, a larger staff could account for that (and it's high time that an expansion happened). Failing that, I wouldn't put it past Game Freak to wait until early 2019, considering that even RS and DP were released nearly two years after the debut of their respective systems.

Between the three of them that's way too much marketing to leave it to spinoffs, that'd be underwhelming and would make those forms feel like an afterthought.

Eternal Floette was already used in XY in a big way, so it's just a matter of making it available. Volcanion not starring in a movie would be akin to what happened with Meloetta (and Genesect's debut via Wi-Fi). As for the Zygarde forms, giving them spotlight in a spin-off and the next generation wouldn't feel like an afterthought at all. I don't see how it would be underwhelming compared to the Delta Episode; it would simply defy expectations, which Masuda has already hinted at.

The bottom line is that no Pokémon should dictate the course of a generation. It's weak reasoning.

 

[shiny_magikarp]

I thought of something so ridiculous that feels just like good old Hoenn Confirmed era. Sugimori recently admitted that Mega Flygon doesn't exist (yet?) because of artist's block. And what we have in Emerald's Battle Frontier? Sudowoodo blocking path to Artisan Cave, where Smeargle live, a literal artist's block. Mega Flygon confurmed with Battle Frontier!!!

 

[Almonds]

I thought of something so ridiculous that feels just like good old Hoenn Confirmed era. Sugimori recently admitted that Mega Flygon doesn't exist (yet?) because of artist's block. And what we have in Emerald's Battle Frontier? Sudowoodo blocking path to Artisan Cave, where Smeargle live, a literal artist's block. Mega Flygon confurmed with Battle Frontier!!!

But really, I'd love it if they released a last Gen6 game with the rest of the Mega Evolutions and the Battle Frontier. We don't really need gym quests - just some new kind of adventure.

 

[jackatlasred]

I thought of something so ridiculous that feels just like good old Hoenn Confirmed era. Sugimori recently admitted that Mega Flygon doesn't exist (yet?) because of artist's block. And what we have in Emerald's Battle Frontier? Sudowoodo blocking path to Artisan Cave, where Smeargle live, a literal artist's block. Mega Flygon confurmed with Battle Frontier!!!

Mega Sudowoodo also confirmed. And Emerald remake confirmed as well. What if its Delta Z with rayquaza and zygarde playing huge roles in Kanto? just saying

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

Iwata is referring to a turning point, rather than more of the same. Kalos games wouldn't even be as successful as ORAS judging from B2W2.

Did they not sell as well as BW when they were new? It wouldn't surprise me, but I don't know the exact statistics.

Thinking about that now, I can see how another Kalos game wouldn't do as well...

 

[Silktree]

Did they not sell as well as BW when they were new? It wouldn't surprise me, but I don't know the exact statistics.

BW: 15.58 million units
B2W2: 7.81 million units

B2W2 barely exceeded 50% of BW's numbers.

 

[KrspaceT]

Don't the original starting games generally sell better than the remakes/third versions? I know that the case with at least Ruby/Sapphire.

 

[Silktree]

Don't the original starting games generally sell better than the remakes/third versions? I know that the case with at least Ruby/Sapphire.

Yes. Game Freak probably expected B2W2 to fare better than the third versions, but they didn't by much.

 

[WallflowerCanyon]

I thought of something so ridiculous that feels just like good old Hoenn Confirmed era. Sugimori recently admitted that Mega Flygon doesn't exist (yet?) because of artist's block. And what we have in Emerald's Battle Frontier? Sudowoodo blocking path to Artisan Cave, where Smeargle live, a literal artist's block. Mega Flygon confurmed with Battle Frontier!!!

MEGA-SUGIMORI CONFIRMED.

Anyways... with all the hell that's being raised in the real world regarding damage to the ecosystems, it's a wonder why Game Freak created Zygarde to begin with. I still think something main series-related will be done with it. I would also like to see the concept of Infinite Energy being brought up again.