Generation VI: The Future

[Piplup]

third version will not retcon XY

It could possibly retcon it and fix the current issues though. Clearly with all references later games made for Emerald-only and Platinum-only events, it's rather safe to assume the third versions are the "definitive" ones. It doesn't completely cancel the initial pair but it makes it easier for one to ignore said initial pair and stick with the more complete version of the story.

I understand why some people are against third versions, I'm usually against it too, but I want Z to happen both due to me being unable to accept the continuity issue that hopefully Z will fix AND regardless of all that: you have to admit XY were very very very lacking in like... everything... other than graphics. Wouldn't it be nice to give it a similar treatment to what Platinum did to Diamond/Pearl?

This is a bit off subject but what do you guys think the next issue of Corocoro is going to reveal? Maybe there's a chance that'll reveal the name of the next games perhaps?

As said before I'm convinced we'll get a game announcement through the new variety show during October. The CoroCoro issue of October or November (depending on how soon in October they reveal it on the variety show) might give us more information, but I'm sure the initial reveal will be saved for the variety show, like with BW2.

Also, certain people here seem to have missed my posts cause I explained again and again how the anime will most likely not "spoil the game" at all... should I really repeat myself again?
Anime-story can and most likely WILL be very different than the game-story, even if they'd share some similarities and basic ideas.
The anime can merely show us Team Flare just ONCE when the XY&Z series start which would be a mysterious first meeting not revealing much if anything, then wait until the game release until they give us their second appearance and go more deeply into their story. We have more than enough non-Flare stuff to do between Ash's Gyms, Serena's Showcases, TRio's schemes and the usual random fun adventures. Not to mention Alain and Mairin which could have their own stand-alone episodes meeting with the twerps separately from the Team Flare stuff, AND the various friends/rivals that could use more appearances (see: Shauna, Miette, Tierno, Trevor, maybe Sanpei, etc...)

Another thing: this is not directed at any specific someone, just a general statement, but I'm disgusted of the extreme anime hate the recent news has brought up not just here but on the internet in general. Some of the game-fans are not only "not into" the anime but seem to HATE it to extreme ridiculous levels which I really find bizarre considering it is the most lively form of the franchise we all supposedly love so much. Like damn, if you somehow don't like it, sure... but what's this extreme HATE some people have for it?! like... chill...

Again this wasn't directed at anyone, but I am so so so sick of this.
This fandom can be really split sometimes. Anime only fans, game only fans, game fans who stick to idea A and hate anyone who dares support idea B, anime fans who wants X to happen and ready to argue to death with anyone who dares want Y to happen.

I guess I should stop here as it's getting a bit off-topic but wow... not fun reading comments online this past week. I'm excited over the news but so depressed from everyone's reactions. Hopefully we can all feel better about everything as we learn more about the future events...

 

[HumanDawn]

I understand why some people are against third versions, I'm usually against it too, but I want Z to happen both due to me being unable to accept the continuity issue that hopefully Z will fix AND regardless of all that: you have to admit XY were very very very lacking in like... everything... other than graphics. Wouldn't it be nice to give it a similar treatment to what Platinum did to Diamond/Pearl?

Other than graphics? Seriously, Pokemon XY did not have any content cut out that you usually expect in a main series title or weaker content. I think people have more of an issue with how they considered BW to have better writing and XY which came after it didn't match it... when Pokemon's selling point was never its writing but gameplay. If it's a fact the content was very lacking I doubt I'd have spent 200-300 hours on it like almost every other game in the series, or went as far as spending that much time considering how many aspects it had that I personally enjoyed. XY are pretty much complete games on their own, certainly much more than DP were.

Anyway, I still doubt we'll be getting a third version like how Platinum was. I might be mistaken, but I vaguely remember Masuda saying that they won't be making a "Z" version like Platinum, so I'm expecting something different like BW2.

EDIT:

Abnormal Traffic Detected

"There's been a lot of demand from people to remake Ruby/Sapphire on social media, for example," he said. "Right now really felt like a good time to do it, and instead of doing a direct sequel to X/Y we're tying it together in some unique ways.

So yeah, if it's going to be truly unique and GameFreak isn't being misleading then there won't be a Z.

 

[Mitchman]

Other than graphics? Seriously, Pokemon XY did not have any content cut out that you usually expect in a main series title or weaker content. I think people have more of an issue with how they considered BW to have better writing and XY which came after it didn't match it... when Pokemon's selling point was never its writing but gameplay. If it's a fact the content was very lacking I doubt I'd have spent 200-300 hours on it like almost every other game in the series, or went as far as spending that much time considering how many aspects it had that I personally enjoyed. XY are pretty much complete games on their own, certainly much more than DP were.

Anyway, I still doubt we'll be getting a third version like how Platinum was. I might be mistaken, but I vaguely remember Masuda saying that they won't be making a "Z" version like Platinum, so I'm expecting something different like BW2.

EDIT:

Abnormal Traffic Detected

"There's been a lot of demand from people to remake Ruby/Sapphire on social media, for example," he said. "Right now really felt like a good time to do it, and instead of doing a direct sequel to X/Y we're tying it together in some unique ways.

So yeah, if it's going to be truly unique and GameFreak isn't being misleading then there won't be a Z.

Yes, no cut content from XY at all, or vaguely unfinished stuff. Lets see.....
Mega Latis left in game. Soaring or at the very least promoting soaring through XY was obciously cut.
Many dead end rooms, and an entire pointof interest on the map that have absolutely nothing
Previous games would have given us the entire power plant. Here we got one.
There is a tiwn in the victory background that does not line up with the layout of any other town.

And that is the subjective stuff. XY is the first duo since Gen 2, 17 years ago!, that did not introduce or expand a sidequest. Even the contests despite being simplified came back for remakes. XY also is the first game since RS that does not have a significant or other sized post game area. And then there is the reuse of old map layouts, route blocks, the lack of a proper legendary trio, the game suddenly shifting focus and pacing after gym 3, it goes on. And some of these issues carried over to ORAS. And yeah, I have to disagree, DPs main issue was the gralhics and poor framerate, its story, region, and sidequest activities, and in some ways its post game, bomb the fuck out of whatever XY offered, hell even BW in some ways.

The quote you posted, btw, when taken out of context like that, sure it sounds like there will be a surprise for the next games. But read the article in full, its obvioud that he meant releasing ORAS is the surprise, that after XY a simple 3rd version wouldn't suffice. We have no idea ifthat means after ORAS they wont want to do one

 

[Tuoko]

Anyway, I still doubt we'll be getting a third version like how Platinum was. I might be mistaken, but I vaguely remember Masuda saying that they won't be making a "Z" version like Platinum, so I'm expecting something different like BW2.

EDIT:

Abnormal Traffic Detected

"There's been a lot of demand from people to remake Ruby/Sapphire on social media, for example," he said. "Right now really felt like a good time to do it, and instead of doing a direct sequel to X/Y we're tying it together in some unique ways.

So yeah, if it's going to be truly unique and GameFreak isn't being misleading then there won't be a Z.

Eh, it can be "Z", that doesn't rule it out. They can do various things to change the third version up a bit.

- Have us start in Southern Kalos or just expand Kalos to include that.
- Have the story actually revolve around the Legendary this time. It would be Zygarde Cores and Cells + the formes.
-Introduce new species.

Just because there's a high chance at getting a "Pokemon Z" doesn't mean it'll be the usual third version as some people expect. They can change things up with a third version.

EDIT: Also, that isn't the full quote. What was said didn't say, "Z isn't happening".

 

[Piplup]

And yeah, I have to disagree, DPs main issue was the gralhics and poor framerate, its story, region, and sidequest activities, and in some ways its post game, bomb the fuck out of whatever XY offered, hell even BW in some ways.

Sure, DP were great, especially compared to XY, but my point is: Platinum built on them A LOT, both fixing any issues DP had and expanding both the story and content of the game. I'm just saying, a third version that changes and adds as much as Platinum did (more than say, what Crystal/Emerald did) would be awesome for XY.

 

[LadySasaki]

Sorry to repeat myself, but I still don't understand why people are railing against a potential Z version when it hasn't been released yet and therefore you cannot possibly know what would be good/bad about it. Even if GF announced a game called 'Z' tomorrow, that does not necessarily guarantee it will be a traditional third version in the vein of Crystal, Emerald or Platinum that will only update minor details.

But hell - even if it did, so what? The third version games are arguably usually better than the games that came before them! I wouldn't mind another spin through the Kalos I know and love, but now with slightly improved trainer customisation options, movepool additions, larger post game content, and a VS seeker thrown in for good measure. What's wrong with that? That would be fun! Just because it's not groundbreaking doesn't mean it would suck! And it would fill in the time gap until we get gen 7!

 

[HumanDawn]

Yes, no cut content from XY at all, or vaguely unfinished stuff. Lets see.....
Mega Latis left in game. Soaring or at the very least promoting soaring through XY was obciously cut.
Many dead end rooms, and an entire pointof interest on the map that have absolutely nothing
Previous games would have given us the entire power plant. Here we got one.
There is a tiwn in the victory background that does not line up with the layout of any other town.

Yeah, like you've just said, none of that is cut or vaguely unfinished content. The Mega Latis were obviously meant for ORAS as well as soaring, power plants are irrelevant and just because a Town exists doesn't mean it was meant to be finished in the game.

EDIT: Nooooo I accidentally edited out a part of this post I wrote...

 

[Icy Wind]

Sorry to repeat myself, but I still don't understand why people are railing against a potential Z version when it hasn't been released yet and therefore you cannot possibly know what would be good/bad about it. Even if GF announced a game called 'Z' tomorrow, that does not necessarily guarantee it will be a traditional third version in the vein of Crystal, Emerald or Platinum that will only update minor details.

But hell - even if it did, so what? The third version games are arguably usually better than the games that came before them! I wouldn't mind another spin through the Kalos I know and love, but now with slightly improved trainer customisation options, movepool additions, larger post game content, and a VS seeker thrown in for good measure. What's wrong with that? That would be fun! Just because it's not groundbreaking doesn't mean it would suck! And it would fill in the time gap until we get gen 7!

I'm sorry but disagree. Even if platinum and the likes are "better" than their predescors they're still essentially the same game with minor improvements. People want to have a different adventure not a "z" version like platinum with minor improvements over their predescors.

 

[Boss1708]

Sorry to repeat myself, but I still don't understand why people are railing against a potential Z version when it hasn't been released yet and therefore you cannot possibly know what would be good/bad about it. Even if GF announced a game called 'Z' tomorrow, that does not necessarily guarantee it will be a traditional third version in the vein of Crystal, Emerald or Platinum that will only update minor details.

But hell - even if it did, so what? The third version games are arguably usually better than the games that came before them! I wouldn't mind another spin through the Kalos I know and love, but now with slightly improved trainer customisation options, movepool additions, larger post game content, and a VS seeker thrown in for good measure. What's wrong with that? That would be fun! Just because it's not groundbreaking doesn't mean it would suck! And it would fill in the time gap until we get gen 7!

I am for a Z version as well.

And a bigger version of Kalos. Kalos is beautiful and really looks great, except... It feels terribly empty after the Looker Chapter. There's literally NOTHING to do, outside of Kiloude... Even Lumiose, the biggest place in Pokemon, has almost nothing to do in the postgame. It's a big issue for such a nice looking place.

This is an other big plus for ORAS: they managed to make Hoenn look ALIVE even after you finish the msin story... Because you can travel all around this enormous Hoenn, since you have an INCENTIVE to do so: trainer rematches with improving teams, Collecting Flags and visiting Secret Bases and battling there as well, etc. And while you do this, you see Pokemon moving in the grass or water, or the Sky, and you see them visually represented in the overworld. Also, wingulls flying around, etc They just managed to make Hoenn feel alive, and therefore giving players an INCENTIVE to re examine the beautiful graphics they avhieved with time and effort.
And mirage spots daily as well.

In Kalos , there is prectically no incentive to get out of Kiloude in the postgame. Except maybe checking fashion updates at shops, but even that was very limited once you get most of those.
They made it beautiful , but not fleshed out.
So Kalos deserves to have an update, with an expanded region and one that doesnt feel so incredibly hollow after a while...

However, the fact it is circular make it even more complicated to improve it.

But even if it does not reach the level of ORAS Hoenn it could still be an improvement over XY Kalos.

If they don't make an improved Z, Kalos will feel inconpleted to me.

 

[Esserise]

I don't get why people are suggesting some sort of mini visual novel series, PSMD, in anime conclusion or some sort of App to wrap up Gen 6.

Because of a variety of reasons, all of which have been detailed in mine/Silktree's/etc.'s posts.

It could possibly retcon it and fix the current issues though. Clearly with all references later games made for Emerald-only and Platinum-only events, it's rather safe to assume the third versions are the "definitive" ones. It doesn't completely cancel the initial pair but it makes it easier for one to ignore said initial pair and stick with the more complete version of the story.

I understand why some people are against third versions, I'm usually against it too, but I want Z to happen both due to me being unable to accept the continuity issue that hopefully Z will fix AND regardless of all that: you have to admit XY were very very very lacking in like... everything... other than graphics. Wouldn't it be nice to give it a similar treatment to what Platinum did to Diamond/Pearl?

You have a point about Z allowing them to maximize the Kalos region's potential, and that could be a decent reason for doing it, but whatever game we get is absolutely not going to be motivated by a desire to repair a loose screw in continuity. I can guarantee you that they do not care even a fraction as much as you do.

"There's been a lot of demand from people to remake Ruby/Sapphire on social media, for example," he said. "Right now really felt like a good time to do it, and instead of doing a direct sequel to X/Y we're tying it together in some unique ways.

So yeah, if it's going to be truly unique and GameFreak isn't being misleading then there won't be a Z.

Well, one could say that Masuda is only denying the possibility of Z coming right after XY, not ORAS, and that he is using the term "direct sequel" in that context. However, I do not believe that to be the case. Obviously, I would think that he is saying that Z is altogether too obvious, and that they are doing something else. I mean, sure, he says, "For example, if after Black and White we came out with a grey, people would have been expecting that. Same thing with X/Y and having a Z straight afterwards. So we're always just trying to surprise people."

So, the goal is to surprise people, and doing Z right after XY would have been expected, so they didn't do that. Does that mean that a Z after ORAS is possible, though?

I don't think so. If anything, Z is even more expected and obvious now. I mean, it is right there in the name of the anime arc featuring, guess who, Zygarde! And of course, people here are indeed saying, "Oh, we're definitely getting a Z." See what I'm getting at? The idea of an eShop app seems outrageous and improbable because it has never been done before, but you certainly wouldn't be expecting it, would you? (Of course, how we can live in a post-B2W2 world and still have people insisting that Game Freak will never break their formula baffles my mind anyway.)

Of course, you can say that Masuda is just lying, but come on. He seems like a decent and at least straight-up guy to me, but I swear, with the frequency with which people have been telling me to disregard all of Game Freak's dirty lies is beginning to make me suspect that Masuda is secretly in league with the Illuminati, and that I need to start lining my walls with tinfoil ASAP.

 

[The Outrage]

It could possibly retcon it and fix the current issues though. Clearly with all references later games made for Emerald-only and Platinum-only events, it's rather safe to assume the third versions are the "definitive" ones. It doesn't completely cancel the initial pair but it makes it easier for one to ignore said initial pair and stick with the more complete version of the story.

Or you could "ignore" them now.

Accepting "continuity issues" (literally amounts to a line or two of text*) is your problem. If you think XY is lacking in content, a game that isn't XY won't fix that. Z would be its own game, except it would be a game with XY's content and the minimal additions you find acceptable for a third version. You want content? A new game would go beyond that, and a few lines of text is not justification for repeating history.

*Seriously, the continuity issues that arise from "Mega Evolution is Kalos-only" is next to nothing compared to Genesect's drives evidently being in the black market long before Genesect should be made, or there being multiple gene splicers. You're selective in what you ignore, so how about you take active control of your mental processes and expand that selection to that one line Sycamore said.

 

[Lufenium]

I'm sorry but disagree. Even if platinum and the likes are "better" than their predescors they're still essentially the same game with minor improvements. People want to have a different adventure not a "z" version like platinum with minor improvements over their predescors.

I second this.

While I'm happy for another go around Kalos, I think I'd rather see something new, like a sequel, or a new standalone game altogether that doesn't rely heavily on X/Y's plot points.

 

[The Outrage]

Not everyone is into visual novels, and if it's short I just expect people to watch it online and get it over with to know about Zygarde, while being disappointed that Zygarde's formes aren't playable in a new main series game they would have been willing to actually buy and play through. Those games you've listed only cost as much as they do because they were fully fledged games that came out years ago, only tweaked to work in an iOS, and as far as I know, in 999's case, the puzzle sections were removed with the text being altered to make it fit. Pokemon sells because of its gameplay with its monsters; not story.

Those games cost that much on the iOS because no one is going to pay $40 for iOS games like they would for a console game. A hard-copy of just a single game in the trilogy comes up to over $15 on sale, so let's not pretend that the price for the entire trilogy is deflated because its an old game.

"Not up to visual novels" isn't really a good argument in support for a third version either. What's being suggested doesn't necessarily have to be a visual novel, but an alternate way to handle the end of Gen VI (the one suggested by Silktree happens to be more story driven because that's his preference)--however, people are supporting buying the exact same game with minimal content added for $40.

 

[LadySasaki]

People want to have a different adventure not a "z" version like platinum with minor improvements over their predescors.

Which is why Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum hardly sold any copies, were commercially and critically hated, and are infamously considered as the worst games of the entire franchise.

Oh wait...

 

[Necrozma]

"Not up to visual novels" isn't really a good argument in support for a third version either. What's being suggested doesn't necessarily have to be a visual novel, but an alternate way to handle the end of Gen VI (the one suggested by Silktree happens to be more story driven because that's his preference)--however, people are supporting buying the exact same game with minimal content added for $40.

The bold is pretty much what matters.

People are willing to pay for it regardless of what one says about third versions, and I'm pretty sure GF knows that. People are going to buy it, minimal content or not.

 

[The Infidel]

I don't really get those who think that when Game Freak said it didnt want to be too obvious with the final installment of gen 6, they somehow meant reducing it to some add on, or scrapping the thing all together.

 

[Piplup]

not a "z" version like platinum with minor improvements over their predescors.

"minor improvements" is mostly Crystal/Emerald. Platinum really changed and added a lot and created a much better game.

You have a point about Z allowing them to maximize the Kalos region's potential, and that could be a decent reason for doing it, but whatever game we get is absolutely not going to be motivated by a desire to repair a loose screw in continuity. I can guarantee you that they do not care even a fraction as much as you do.

I'm actually really curious about that. I really wanted someone to try asking Masuda on twitter to explain how that "mega evolution never happened out of Kalos yet" statements work with ORAS being set a few years earlier yet expecting us to believe they're in the same universe. I guess he'd ignore such questions though... but it would be interesting to see what he'd have to say in case he does answer, since he seem to reply to fans on twitter although from what I've seen it's mainly about fanart and such stuff that he can just retweet and go "nice" over lol...
Even if it wasn't their main goal though, they should and hopefully will take the chance to make things right. Other than my issue with mega evo (and to a lesser extent that woman talking about the fairy type) there are other issues to consider: if there's the relation between Mauville and Lumiose that ORAS presents, how come Lumiose never references Mauville at all? It's really weird to have such a one-sided tribute to a city that never mentions your city at all. I can only hope the potential Z's Lumiose will fix that too. Also, with Zinnia talking about the Kalos war and it resulting in mega evolution and so on, I think it could be very fitting for her to visit the Kalos region at some point. She could be involved in the plot or some post-game event, something that obviously didn't happen in XY since ORAS and Zinnia weren't created yet, but can now get into there via the potential Z.
There's a lot they could/should fix and add to XY both in general and in relation to ORAS and the changes/characters it presented.
I honestly can't see why anyone would NOT be interested to see that... yes, a new gen would be more exciting, but we'll get a new gen anyway, and with PSMD/Pokkén/Go I think the franchise got a more than enough happening already that a new gen isn't really urgent. A third version can be more than enough to join the side games filling the time until the inevitable gen 7.

Accepting "continuity issues" (literally amounts to a line or two of text*) is your problem.

And being willing to accept a serious mess up in the continuity that up until ORAS mostly made sense is your problem too.
Clearly we have different opinions/views and neither of us is going to convince the other so it's really pointless to try arguing over it.

If you think XY is lacking in content, a game that isn't XY won't fix that. Z would be its own game,

A third version IS the initial paired games done right/better, so it IS going to fix XY, at least for me.
Third versions basically make the initial pair pointless. There's pretty much no reason at all for one to ever replay RS or DP instead of Emerald or Platinum, for example. Again you can argue that and different people view things differently, but it's basically how it is...

You want content? A new game would go beyond that,

A new gen will come anyway. A better Kalos won't come without a third version.

*Seriously, the continuity issues that arise from "Mega Evolution is Kalos-only" is next to nothing compared to Genesect's drives evidently being in the black market long before Genesect should be made, or there being multiple gene splicers. You're selective in what you ignore, so how about you take active control of your mental processes and expand that selection to that one line Sycamore said.

Yes the Genesect thing is dumb, but it doesn't bother me because it's hardly plot-relevant.
Mega Evolution is not merely some game mechanic, it is a HUGE plot point, and as far as I can see it is the first time they have such a major contradiction. So yes I still insist it's way more annoying than the Genesect thing or anything else you may come up with.
No I'm not forcing you to agree with me, but it'll probably be for the best if you stop trying to convince me otherwise because it won't go anywhere.

Also, just throwing another random point:
With the whole "gen 1 love" thing, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd decide to stick to their basics and return to the third version way rather than stick to BW2's idea or randomly rush into a new gen, especially when forms/megas already allows them to have sort-of "new" Pokémon in the meantime.

 

[godiego]

Mega Evolution is not merely some game mechanic, it is a HUGE plot point

Huge is an exaggeration. more than anything, Mega Evolution is simply a mechanic with a little bit of history behind it. it's like if the games added lore to the abilities or even just the existing lore behind evolution. at the end of the day i can't agree with you on the importance of the retcon that GameFreak made regarding the continuity because the premise of mega evolution was kept the same; mega evolution is still largely something that is "shrouded in mystery," that not a lot of people can pull off and is largely delegated to relevant characters in the story, and requires a strong bond. all that was really changed was the removal of the ambiguous "in Kalos" qualifier, which honestly who even knows what they were going for unless you have the original Japanese (though other languages may also help).

 

[Icy Wind]

People want to have a different adventure not a "z" version like platinum with minor improvements over their predescors.

Which is why Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum hardly sold any copies, were commercially and critically hated, and are infamously considered as the worst games of the entire franchise.

Oh wait...

You're right, but let's forget the fact that the games you mentioned sold waaay less than their predescors.

 

[Esserise]

which honestly who even knows what they were going for unless you have the original Japanese (though other languages may also help).

I am extremely hesitant to drag up this issue again, but a thought that occurred to me recently was, maybe he meant historical examples of Mega Evolution, and it was just badly translated? Like pseudo-mythic legends about Great-great-Gurkinn and Lucario. Even in XY, I thought it was absurd to expect that nobody had ever come to Kalos and just, you know, took a Mega Stone and a Key Stone and left (in fact, ORAS says that Steven did exactly that), especially in the hundreds of years since it was discovered. Perhaps the other regions just don't have any stories of Mega Evolution being happened upon in nature like that within their boundaries? The story about Rayquaza was a bit different from the Mega Evolution that people know (and it was kept secret by the Draconids), and Zinnia says stuff like, "That sure sounds kinda like Mega Evolution, huh?", and the burst of energy from the Cave of Origin is fairly recent and well-documented history. So under that logic, Kalos could still be the only region with traditional examples of Mega Evolution being dug up in the distant past as if the materials necessary had always been there without a known cause (which turns out to have been the Ultimate Weapon).

I don't know, I don't really care about it that much, and this is just a thought that I had.