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Generation VI: The Future

What will it be?


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I'm just going to address one thing but honestly I'm tired of this...

so you're openly admitting here that FRLG and HGSS are retcons? so why can't ORAS make a minor retcon (re: only in Kalos)?

FRLG and HGSS replaced RBY and GSC. ORAS did not replace XY. The potential Z can replace XY.

Again, I'm really tired and feel like I'll endlessly repeat myself so...... whoever interested can re-read my posts or something cause I won't have much to add.
I'm not really trying to make anyone agree with me or something. We're different people and different opinions/views/desires, it's cool if you disagree with mine. Let's agree to disagree rather than endlessly argue about it and just look forward to the next game, whatever it will be.

that's operating under the assumption that GameFreak intended for there to be a multiverse

I don't believe they intended on a "multiverse" prior to ORAS, but back then it was just like FRLG and HGSS rewrote and replaced RBY and GSC making them irrelevant.

While ORAS established the Megaverse split, Black and White already established that each game is its own continuity. The man who gives you the cell battery explicitly asks for a Pokemon that knows Charge from a universe where Opelucid was more/less developed.

True. I just doubt they thought too much about it beyond the basics "player can choose which version of the duo/trio happened, if the protagonist is boy/girl, which starter they picked and other Pokémon caught"
So they may have not outright considered RBY/GSC to be their own "universe" but they basically replaced them with FRLG/HGSS
 
Honestly it all comes down to the obvious fact that XY were originally planned to be in the same universe with all the GBA/DS games. That's why they had characters refer to fairy type as a new discovery and that's why Mega Evo is stated to have yet to happen outside of Kalos. Because XY was supposed to be the furthest in future point of the timeline and they didn't keep in mind the possibility of remaking older games. So if not for remakes, the original plan could work assuming every gen would be further into the future. But then ORAS became a thing...
Here's the facts:


  1. Fairy type was a recently classified type. In the world of scientific discovery, especially in a slow moving science, even a decade is recent. I doubt scientists in the game change the type chart that much considering they only have 18 types.
  2. In the real world, fields like Psychology and Neuroscience are considered young despite being older than literally anyone who is alive studying it. The interdisciplinary field of Social Neuroscience only emerged as a formal discipline within the last decade or so, and is considered young. The point I'm making? The in-universe timeline of Pokemon spans a decade at most so the discovery of Fairy type at any point even if it was a year before ORAS would be considered new.
  3. You make a claim that XY was made into a multiverse after-the-fact. It has been established that XY and B2W2 take place at the same time. If Fairy type was "new" in XY, it should have been "new" in Gen V. The only explanation is that in the non-Megaverse, Fairy has not yet been classified as its own type, and therefore, XY cannot exist in the same universe as B2W2.
FRLG and HGSS replaced RBY and GSC. ORAS did not replace XY. The potential Z can replace XY.
Did you have issue with FrLg when it was released? There was no HgSs until the tail-end of Gen IV and at the time, many people did not believe another set of remakes would happen. This means that from 2004 to 2009, FrLg presented a continuity error as big as the Fairy types you are complaining about....yet I don't recall you complaining about it every other post.

You are either incredibly selective in what you find an unforgivable sin (which was already demonstrated multiple times given the larger continuity errors created by things like Genesect's drives and the Gene Splicers) or you literally held onto the idea that there would be a GSC remake at some point....yet you can't let go of two simple lines in a game and demand that the fandom gets something subpar so you could sleep at night.

This is literally the only fandom that can only accept retcons if they remake the entire game where the one or two lines being retcon'd is coming from. Other fandoms accept that new entries in the series have the ability to retcon old entries even if they aren't direct remakes.

This fandom is ridiculous and evidently loves wasting money so they don't have to spend the minuscule amount of mental effort to forget two lines.
 
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How can you claim it is "secret-ish" when not only it seems like it's commonly knowed about by everyone but as you just pointed out is used by famous people like Lisia and Steven?

I just want to point out, the visibility of these things in-universe is very different for the characters and NPCs. We get wrapped up in the Mega Evolution hubbub because we are an up-and-coming, somewhat prodigious Pokémon Trainer. Your average NPC doesn't necessarily see it the same way, though. In-universe, Pokémon battling seems fairly comparable to a real-world sport. Now, go ahead and name some obscure football play, that has been used by a famous player.

And watch me not have a flying clue what you are talking about.

Mega Evolution is like that, basically. If people in the Kalos region can be unaware of what it is despite, as godiego said, the region have an entire local landmark dedicated to it, then why can't people who don't really follow the Contest scene?

On a tangential note, just pertaining to something that I noticed on a recent playthrough - Steven doesn't really seem to be all that famous. The Magma/Aqua grunt at the Southern Island vaguely recognized him, but guessed that he must have been a Contest star or something. And during the weather crisis, the main BuzzNav reporter asked something like, "Who could have the charisma to gather all of the Gym Leaders together like this?" She knew Steven was Joseph Stone's son, but evidently did not know that he was the Champion. Same with Diantha (also a famous Mega Evolution user, who didn't even seem to know about the "strong bond" requirement of the process). Nobody really talked about her as the Champion; she was an icon because of her movies.

If you transferred a Pokemon from Generation 3-5 to X/Y, some place on the information screen include: "This Pokemon traveled through time and SPACE"... While in Generation 5, a Pokemon from the Generation 3-4 games had the message "Apparently arrived at level --- after a long travel through time," so the idea for X/Y being in another universe from Gen 3-5 was there.

"Space" does not automatically equate to "universe." I could walk into my living room, and I will have moved through time and space.
 
I'm hoping for a Z version, but they'll probably pull out a X and Y 2. I think its a bit early for another Kanto remake, and I highly doubt they'd remake Sinnoh so soon.
 
Some of you are thinking waaaaay too much on the line about the Fairy type being "recently classified." The only purpose of that line is to inform players who were not aware of the new type addition. The line has absolutely no significance other than that.
 
I'm not going to continue this never-ending arguing but just to address few things:
1. I wasn't active here during FRLG's release era + admittedly I never even thought too much about plot details back then, I just played without thinking too much, which I guess is the better attitude to have about it sometimes...
2. if they do release a Z and do decide to fix the things I have issues with, great. If they don't, whatever, I'll get over it.
3. Time + Space = Dimensions. While "space" in general can mean literally walking into a different area, when time and space are combined together it means dimensions. So yes I agree with the claims that the "travel through time and space" thing implied different dimensions=universes. Which yes doesn't really fit with me thinking XY was not created with ORAS in mind. I'm not sure what to say about that anymore, I guess AT FIRST they planned it and started working on it without ORAS in mind but then at some point mid-development the possibility of ORAS rised and they tried to implement some ORAS tie ins (hence mega Lati being programmed in) but didn't properly go over the entire game to change ALL that should be changed.
 
People want to have a different adventure not a "z" version like platinum with minor improvements over their predescors.

Which is why Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum hardly sold any copies, were commercially and critically hated, and are infamously considered as the worst games of the entire franchise.

Oh wait...
You're right, but let's forget the fact that the games you mentioned sold waaay less than their predescors.

I'm not saying they sold better than their predecessors. I'm saying they sold. Millions. Worldwide. They did very well commercially. Which disproves your inference that people don't want them and prefer only new material. The third version are very much a 'different adventure' in their own right - just set in a familiar world.
And that's exactly my point. They sold less than their predecessors because they were set in a similiar world. Of course there are people out there who are willing to buy them, but this proves that the majority of people prefer not buying these slightly improvemed third versions.

You said they want a different adventure not an improved third version. Perhaps you meant, in general, people buy more of the first versions. I'd agree with that. But to imply that people do not want a third version at all is false.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be pedantic :p my point is only that third versions sell well. People like them. Some even refrain from buying the first two versions of each generations and actually wait for the third version because they know it will be improved. We are always going to get Generation 7 anyway, that is pretty much the only thing we can be sure of, so why not potentially Z (or something similar minus the name) in the meantime? Who is it hurting?
And a third version like platinum is NOT a different adventure. Let's drop this argument, because neither you or me are going to agree with each other, okay ?
 
Well, that depends how you define 'a different adventure'.

It's a discussion, not an argument. I wasn't challenging your point that third game sell less, merely expressing that they do sell, and therefore have value and are appreciated by the fans...but if you want to stop then stop. I'm not forcing you to continue replying o_O

Can I just say, broadly, I don't understand why over the past few weeks I've seen a few perfectly nice talks on several forums turn into ragequits. Is it that some people can't seperate their own ego from their argument and turn it personal, or is it that we're in a long news lull, getting frazzled with waiting, and are starting to break under the pressure? Maybe a little of column a and a little of column b? xD It feels like that suffocating, nervous energy in the atmosphere right before a storm, and we need a nice big news-filled deluge of rain to break the tension soon.
 
I could've sworn we already addressed the issue of gameplay changes>lore consistency a couple of pages ago? I'm all for speculation but really, let's not argue semantics here. Do you rally thing Pokemon of all game franchises is one that places an emphasis on such minute things like this? The game series notorious for an overly simple story (with a few exceptions perhaps) with a huge part of the draw being the core gameplay?

Honestly, seeing as we're in a drought, maybe it's better to...not speculate? I've personally not really been active simply because I feel at this point we're just retreading old ground. We should see a new game announcement soon and that'll give us fresh content to speculate on but for now guys remember there's nothing wrong with taking a break.
 
3. Time + Space = Dimensions.

A "dimension" in the sense of space-time doesn't imply a separate universe. Saying something traveled through time and space literally just means you traveled a great physical distance for a long period of time.

Of course, I'm more inclined to agree with you in that if Platinum was evident of anything, its that Game Freak doesn't really understand physics--so I'd go with the author's intention.

2. if they do release a Z and do decide to fix the things I have issues with, great. If they don't, whatever, I'll get over it.
The question is, why can't you get over it now. Your entire reasoning for Z (and a lot of people's) is predicated on wanting two lines of text (both of which can be interpreted as Game Freak just trying to introduce you to the concept) rewritten or removed. Like, there hasn't been a good reason for why Z should exist other than the fact that Kalos wasn't all you wanted it to be.
 
To try to get back on subject, when do you'll think Nintendo will finally spill the beans on the next game? I can't imagine that they would wait much longer considering that 2016 is almost over with.
Perhaps they're planning a big direct for early next year to talk about all things Pokémon and beyond?
Whatever the next game or games might be it seems to be big in their eyes even it we might know what it is.
 
To try to get back on subject, when do you'll think Nintendo will finally spill the beans on the next game? I can't imagine that they would wait much longer considering that 2016 is almost over with.
Perhaps they're planning a big direct for early next year to talk about all things Pokémon and beyond?
Whatever the next game or games might be it seems to be big in their eyes even it we might know what it is.
Yeah,Pokemonusually does its own thing and doesn't rely on Nintendo, but I could see a grand return of the Directs in October for their usual fall blowout, and maybe includong the reveal there, or at the least the first trailer after the reveal earlier in the month.
 
To try to get back on subject, when do you'll think Nintendo will finally spill the beans on the next game? I can't imagine that they would wait much longer considering that 2016 is almost over with.
Perhaps they're planning a big direct for early next year to talk about all things Pokémon and beyond?
Whatever the next game or games might be it seems to be big in their eyes even it we might know what it is.

I feel like it'd be an October/November reveal for the game. They show off a trailer which shows Zygarde 50% and the formes after that along with "Ash Greninja" and possibly the forms for Delphox and Chesnaught, and then announce whatever it's called and show off the boxart.

I dunno, with them going into detail about "Ash Greninja" probably sometime soon, I'd imagine it'd be the perfect time to reveal the forms for Delphox and Chesnaught as well.
 
Your entire reasoning for Z (and a lot of people's) is predicated on wanting two lines of text

Actually, that's not the only reason, there's that XY felt too rushed and boring and could use expanding on the story and characters. I think that's the main reason for the other pro-Z fans to want it, since I'm mostly alone on the whole continuity thing.
Here's a list of things I'd like to see them do to improve Kalos that aren't related to continuity stuff:
- Improve the characters of the friends group. Please let me be able to at least slightly care for any of them. The idea of a friends group is cute in theory but was rather poorly executed. Surely they can make it better?
- Diantha. Why is she so not involved in anything? Make her more plot-relevant, like get actually involved with the Team Flare stuff.
- Speaking of Team Flare... I really felt like we should have had more encounters with them before the climax. Maybe they can do that + try giving us more interesting team members? Something like Matt/Shelly would be nice...
- Elite Four rematches with improved teams, it's really confusing to me why we don't have that already in XY since that's a thing we've come to expect by now...
- More stuff to do post-game. Surely they could add more to do in the game aside from the Looker story which was great (and could be expanded too, it felt too short to me in XY) but not enough.

And of course there's the likely possibilities of new megas and potential new characters (Platinum added Charon and Looker which turned out to be rather interesting characters, with Looker becoming a regular in later games) or returning characters (it could be interesting to see Zinnia after the events of ORAS and after her talking about the Kalos events it'll seem quite fitting to see her there, either being involved with the Team Flare plot or having her own post-game story)

Again, I'm not really forcing anyone to agree with wanting Z to happen. They'll do whatever they'll do and we can't really do anything about it. I think we all presented our opinions more than enough by now.

We should see a new game announcement soon and that'll give us fresh content to speculate on but for now guys remember there's nothing wrong with taking a break.

True. I'm going to take a break from speculating and discussing. Hopefully soon enough we'll know what's happening.
 
I'm taking a bit of a break from this thread and I might reply to responses directed at me later, but what HRRlion said made me remember something that hasn't been speculated about or mentioned lately, so I'd like to bring something new to make the discussion healthier. So, while Zygarde's new Formes could be elaborated on and an expansion on Volcanion's could be done in a new game in a "Z" game, they don't exactly have anything to do with flowers themselves. Other than Malva, Lysandre and Zinnia's names being flower names themselves, there's somebody else that has to do with flowers, and that's AZ's own Floette. It could definitely be more involved in a "Z" game, and it could be catchable, or maybe given to you by AZ. It interestingly also has its own battle model, with its own Forme listed as "Eternal Flower" Floette in the Pokedex, as well as different stats from other Floette and 1 less BST than Florges, Pokemon Amie animations and it's own unique move Light of Ruin, just like how Zygarde had two unique moves!

When Mega Latios and Mega Latias were revealed to be in the game through hacking, people wrongly assumed that they'd just be given off in an event, when it turns out they were for ORAS. I don't think it's wrong to assume that AZ's "Eternal Flower" Floette is going to be in a new Gen VI game featuring Zygarde and Floette as an important story related Pokemon. It could even maybe get a Mega Evolution or a stronger Forme! There's just too much about it for me to believe that GameFreak bothered to even make it a playable Pokemon with plenty of unique traits that they wouldn't do anything with it in a new game and just leave it be.
 
You're arbitrarily assuming that Generation VII will be followed by a break in 2017 just to make your argument work.

Then what do you want in 2017? A Kanto/Sinnoh remake/sequel? If that's your answer my point stands. Z + Gen VII would sell similar units to Gen VII + FRLG2/DP2. However, the first option is more cheaper to produce because they can recycle a lot of things from XY, while in the other cases they have to do a lot of things from scratch.
 
I'm taking a bit of a break from this thread and I might reply to responses directed at me later, but what HRRlion said made me remember something that hasn't been speculated about or mentioned lately, so I'd like to bring something new to make the discussion healthier. So, while Zygarde's new Formes could be elaborated on and an expansion on Volcanion's could be done in a new game in a "Z" game, they don't exactly have anything to do with flowers themselves. Other than Malva, Lysandre and Zinnia's names being flower names themselves, there's somebody else that has to do with flowers, and that's AZ's own Floette. It could definitely be more involved in a "Z" game, and it could be catchable, or maybe given to you by AZ. It interestingly also has its own battle model, with its own Forme listed as "Eternal Flower" Floette in the Pokedex, as well as different stats from other Floette and 1 less BST than Florges, Pokemon Amie animations and it's own unique move Light of Ruin, just like how Zygarde had two unique moves!

When Mega Latios and Mega Latias were revealed to be in the game through hacking, people wrongly assumed that they'd just be given off in an event, when it turns out they were for ORAS. I don't think it's wrong to assume that AZ's "Eternal Flower" Floette is going to be in a new Gen VI game featuring Zygarde and Floette as an important story related Pokemon. It could even maybe get a Mega Evolution or a stronger Forme! There's just too much about it for me to believe that GameFreak bothered to even make it a playable Pokemon with plenty of unique traits that they wouldn't do anything with it in a new game and just leave it be.

You brought up a very good. It's strange that Volcanion hasn't been revealed yet since I'd figured it would be the first thing that GF\TPC would've shown moreover I want to know what type of form GF will give it.
I do expect a huge blowout from Corocoro next month because there's no way that they would have a hype issue this month and then show filler in the next issue
 
Then what do you want in 2017? A Kanto/Sinnoh remake/sequel? If that's your answer my point stands. Z + Gen VII would sell similar units to Gen VII + FRLG2/DP2. However, the first option is more cheaper to produce because they can recycle a lot of things from XY, while in the other cases they have to do a lot of things from scratch.
You're wrong. Platinum sold 7.5 million units compared to HGSS' 12.72 figure; that isn't "similar units" at all. As for being cheaper to produce, the main series' development costs are negligible compared to their sales, so it's a moot point.

It is in Game Freak's best interest to release 3-year generations that consist of initial versions taking place in a new region, and remakes/sequels involving an old region. Extending a generation via a third version simply means a lower number of units sold per year.
 
It is in Game Freak's best interest to release 3-year generations that consist of initial versions taking place in a new region, and remakes/sequels involving an old region. Extending a generation via a third version simply means a lower number of units sold per year.

Black 2 and White 2, the games that everyone seems to believe revolutionized Gamefreak's strategy and made 3rd versions redundant, didn't actually sell that much better than if they had been a 3rd version. Emerald shifted about 6 million, Platinum seven and a half. BW2 shifted barely 8 and a half. If you take into account that sales of 3rd versions have been steadily rising (unlike generational debut main game sales, which have been falling since DP) we may predict that "Grey" version would have sold roughly what BW2 did. Of course we can never know, but it is an accurate prediction following the pattern. It's not as if BW2 being a sequel suddenly pulled in the same numbers as the paired generational debuts.

Also, Pokemon Yellow sold better than FRLG and HGSS respectively, meaning 3rd versions have not always been less of a financial pull than remakes. Of course you could argue early installment popularity, which would be fair enough. But you could also argue that doing something quirky and fun with the 3rd version makes it a better seller.

On this note, what if GF want to do something unusual and tie in the hypothetical "Z" version game to the anime? It makes a strange kind of sense; we are being shown Zygarde in all its forme-changing glory in the anime before the games, not to mention Ashninja. And as we keep being told, Masuda really wants to surprise us. Many people have been speculating about a Yellow remake...what if we got it in spirit, if not in form? Finally another game which mirrors the anime, not the other way around? I guess it would be a fun and original way to end our time in Kalos, if nothing else!
 
On this note, what if GF want to do something unusual and tie in the hypothetical "Z" version game to the anime? It makes a strange kind of sense; we are being shown Zygarde in all its forme-changing glory in the anime before the games, not to mention Ashninja. And as we keep being told, Masuda really wants to surprise us. Many people have been speculating about a Yellow remake...what if we got it in spirit, if not in form? Finally another game which mirrors the anime, not the other way around? I guess it would be a fun and original way to end our time in Kalos, if nothing else!

I don't think Yellow is getting remake any time soon though. We already got remakes this gen which were not exactly great and Zygarde is the one getting attention with new forms, movie and the mega evolution special. Pokemon Z is what I believe is likely to happen. Maybe next gen or two Kanto can be remade but not now.
 
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