Generation VI: The Future

[Soki]

But, do you realise that this way of classifying post game content, means you just care for what was unlocked AFTER the Pokemon League?

Well "post" does mean "after" so that literally is the definition. If people were complaining about the overall content in XY they would just say 'content'.

XY's content was fine, but some people want something new to do after the main game, and XY isn't offering much in that regard. That's what the problem is. You beat the league and then you can do more battling or catch legendaries, but that's pretty much it. While in other games (DPPt, BW(2)) you still had a pretty large part of the region to explore or even a complete other region, like in (H)G(S)S. Some people want more exploring, not just more battling.

 

[Boss1708]

Well "post" does mean "after" so that literally is the definition. If people were complaining about the overall content in XY they would just say 'content'.

XY's content was fine, but some people want something new to do after the main game, and XY isn't offering much in that regard. That's what the problem is. You beat the league and then you can do more battling or catch legendaries, but that's pretty much it. While in other games (DPPt, BW(2)) you still had a pretty large part of the region to explore or even a complete other region, like in (H)G(S)S. Some people want more exploring, not just more battling.

Actually people saying XY lacks post game, also call the game content lacking. They are the same people in most cases.

My point is, saying a game lacks post game content, only because the creators were nice enough to enable us to do some of said content earlier, is a bit of hypocricy imo. (Especially when all that content, even when unlocked earlier, is left for the post game by most fans.)

 

[Soki]

Actually people saying XY lacks post game, also call the game content lacking. They are the same people in most cases.

My point is, saying a game lacks post game content, only because the creators were nice enough to enable us to do some of said content earlier, is a bit of hypocricy imo.

I repeat: some people want new content after the main game. Other games had lots of content during the main game and new content after the game. XY didn't. Nothing hypocritic about wanting something that other games did have.

 

[Boss1708]

I repeat: some people want new content after the main game. Other games had lots of content during the main game and new content after the game. XY didn't. Nothing hypocritic about wanting something that other games did have.

I think if we count all content, regardless of when it was made available, XY beats most first pair games, except maybe DP.

Of course, I am talking about content. If we talk about areas, XY only has one post game area. I criticize the emptiness of Kalos in the post game myself. Kalos feels completely empty, but that's because everything occurs in Lumiose, and the rest of the region is completely irrelevant, and gives no reasons for re exploration, but that's just bad region design. They just wanted to show off Lumiose, at the cost of the rest of the region. It is a very obvious issue of XY. I just don't count that as content, more like a planification issue.

 

[NinjutsuSen]

I think if we count all content, regardless of when it was made available, XY beats most first pair games, except maybe DP.

Of course, I am talking about content. If we talk about areas, XY only has one post game area. I criticize the emptiness of Kalos in the post game myself. Kalos feels completely empty, but that's because everything occurs in Lumiose, and the rest of the region is completely irrelevant, and gives no reasons for re exploration, but that's just bad region design. They just wanted to show off Lumiose, at the cost of the rest of the region. It is a very obvious issue of XY. I just don't count that as content, more like a planification issue.

DP have not that much content except the post game island. BW and GS are the most content filled first versions. XY's is also not bad, since there are many new features and it does have some features that only most third versions have like E4 and leader rematches.

Kalos as a region was ok. Not that linear like BW1 Unova, since there are few optional areas. Post game lacks, but it's not Gen 1 or 3 empty. The next games are probably fixing the most issues like BW2:

 

[Boss1708]

DP have not that much content except the post game island. BW and GS are the most content filled first versions. XY's is also not bad, since there are many new features and it does have some features that only most third versions have like E4 and leader rematches.

Kalos as a region was ok. Not that linear like BW1 Unova, since there are few optional areas. Post game lacks, but it's not Gen 1 or 3 empty. The next games are probably fixing the most issues like BW2:

DP Has VS Seeker rematches, Super Contests, Underground, Battle Tower, Restaurant matches, etc. So it´s good too. XY doesn´t have E4 and Champion Rematches, though. You got confused there. You can fight the E4 in the Battle Chateau, but their teams are more limited and worst than in the Pokemon League,so it is a weaker rematch than the normal one, rather than an improved rematch.

 

[Icy Wind]

DP have not that much content except the post game island. BW and GS are the most content filled first versions. XY's is also not bad, since there are many new features and it does have some features that only most third versions havelike E4 and leader rematches.

Kalos as a region was ok. Not thatlinear like BW1 Unova, since there are few optional areas. Post gamelacks, but it's not Gen 1 or 3empty. The next games are probably fixing the most issueslike BW2:

Yeah, no. In case you didn't know it, BW have more optional areas than x and y, and please, don't act like everybody thinks "linear" games are bad.

 

[Bolt Strike]

There's two problems I have with 6th gen's content:

1. Lack of areas to explore. Having new areas that open up has a huge effect on extra content and tends to bring other elements along with it, like more Pokemon, extra trainers, bonus features, etc. This is something that XY and ORAS don't really do, they have a handful of places that open up after you beat the game, but they're not very big and they're very to the point so the game feels a lot shorter because of that.

2. Lack of interesting sidequests. XY is sorely lacking in terms of sidequests, you have a couple of minor battle facilities and stuff, but nothing major like Contests, Secret Bases, Underground, Join Avenue, etc. That's a major reason why people keep saying XY has very little extra content, because it's basically just a smattering of smaller stuff and there's no real big, attention grabbing extra feature in the game. Meanwhile, ORAS does have a couple that carried over from the originals, but not much else and there's not much of interest that unlocks in post game.

Yeah, no. In case you didn't know it, BW have more optional areas than x and y, and please, don't act like everybody thinks "linear" games are bad.

Still pales in comparison to what we got in past games, where there were entire paths that were optional, not just an occasional dungeon off the beaten path.

 

[godiego]

Still pales in comparison to what we got in past games, where there were entire paths that were optional, not just an occasional dungeon off the beaten path.

don't think you actually played XY then because there are loads of side-routes and side-areas in Kalos. i would say more than most other regions except Hoenn (which is largely inflated due to the number of water routes).

 

[Bolt Strike]

don't think you actually played XY then because there are loads of side-routes and side-areas in Kalos. i would say more than most other regions except Hoenn (which is largely inflated due to the number of water routes).

Let's take a look at that:

RBYFRLG Kanto: Rt. 22, Rt. 11, Diglett's Cave, Rt. 12-15/16-18, Safari Zone, Rt. 19, 20, and Seafoam Island/Rt. 21, Unknown Dungeon/Cerulean Cave, Sevii Islands
Johto: Dark Cave, Ruins of Alph, National Park, Rt. 47, 48, and Safari Zone, Mt. Mortar, Whirl Islands, Tin Tower, Rt. 45, Rt. 46
Hoenn: Island Cave, Rt. 115, Abandoned Ship/Sea Mauville, Desert Ruins, Mirage Tower, New Mauville, Scorched Slab, Safari Zone, Rt. 123, Rt. 125, Shoal Cave, Rt. 129-134, Pacifidlog Town, Sealed Chamber, Sky Pillar, Battle Tower/Frontier/Resort, Artisan Cave, Desert Underpass
Sinnoh: Wayward Cave, Lost Tower, Rt. 212/Rt. 214 and 215, Solaceon Ruins/Safari Zone, Maniac's Tunnel, Rt. 219-221, Fuego Ironworks, Iron Island, Rt. 224, Turnback Cave, Snowpoint Ruins, Battle Zone
BW1 Unova: Rt. 16, Lostlorn Forest, Anville Town, Mistralton Cave, Moor of Icirrus, Challenger's Cave, Rt. 11-15, Village Bridge, Lacunosa Town, Giant Chasm, Undella Town, Undella Bay, Abyssal Ruins, Abundant Shrine, Black City/White Forest, Marvelous Bridge
BW2 Unova: Rt. 16, Lostlorn Forest, Anville Town, Mistralton Cave, Rt. 14, Abundant Shrine, Undella Bay/Marine Tube, Abyssal Ruins, Rt. 9, Twist Mountain, Icirrus City, Dragonspiral Tower, Moor of Icirrus, Tubeline Bridge, Clay Tunnel, Black City/White Forest, Rt. 15, Marvelous Bridge, Southeast Unova
Kalos: Rt. 22/Rt. 21, Azure Bay, Sea Spirit's Den, Rt. 16, Lost Hotel, Terminus Cave, Unknown Dungeon, Kiloude City

There's some exceptions, but in general, the amount of extra content in 5th and 6th gen is lower than past games.

 

[thatdude53]

I thought it was obvious that post game content means content strictly restricted until after the E4. Anyone who thinks XY had loads of post game content are in the minority. I want something to do for at least another ten plus ours after the E4. I can't be the only who feels this way.

 

[Icy Wind]

Still pales in comparison to what we got in past games, where there were entire paths that wereoptional, not just an occasionaldungeon off the beaten path.

You know, there is more to pokemon than exploring a few meaningless optional areas that have no effect on the game's plotline.

 

[Zeb]

You know, there is more to pokemon than exploring a few meaningless optional areas that have no effect on the game's plotline.

You know, people find value in different things than you right? You say the above like every area you visit should be linked to the main plot. Which is honestly quite silly if that's how you think a game like this should work. Pokemon lets you travel around a region and for a lot of people exploring every nook and cranny of that region is a big deal - regardless of whether some of the areas are "meaningless" and has no effect on the game's plot. It helps create a world that people enjoy and want to wander and explore, rather than everything being a set location according to the how main plot works and being funneled through it.

I don't particularly care either way on this topic (these days I'm just in it for the Pokemon themselves) but sometimes you gotta understand that in RPGs, especially ones that try to offer a big adventure (e.g. exploring a region like this) that people will like some of the "optional" areas just as much as the main areas and that doesn't make you right to try and dismiss them like you have. RPGs that are large in what they offer (usually most tbh) tend to have that effect on people because the world feels more alive the less centered around the main plot everything is (it's one reason I don't find Pokemon all that great because the entire world's social structure seems to revolve around Gyms which I find too farfetch'd... but that's for another topic).

For example, why do you think people like the different trainer classes? They don't have any effect on the plot whatsoever (generally) so should we reduce all trainer classes down to just the few that could have an effect on the plot or maybe even just the one?

Honestly, reducing an RPGs world/exploration to weighing it on whether it effects the main plot or whether it's optional, is really just a bad way to look at things considering RPGs are about so much more for a lot of people and the combination of everything they offer. (Yes, even Pokemon surprisingly.)

 

[NinjutsuSen]

DP Has VS Seeker rematches, Super Contests, Underground, Battle Tower, Restaurant matches, etc. So it´s good too. XY doesn´t have E4 and Champion Rematches, though. You got confused there. You can fight the E4 in the Battle Chateau, but their teams are more limited and worst than in the Pokemon League,so it is a weaker rematch than the normal one, rather than an improved rematch.

XY does have the rematches, but they dont have many pokemon all, but these ARE rematches. Also if you choose the black invite challenge, they are all at least Lv70. Are they good? No, but better than nothing like in RS or DP. Also had multiple restaurant matches, battle maison with more game modes, a post game story that aren't only 2 battles like in Mt. Stark

DP doesn't have more content beside the post game island than BW or GS. BW have 40% of the region after the story and GS a whole region. BW also had stadion matches, E4 rematches, the subway etc. After you have finished the post game island that takes about 3 hours to complete all routes, there really nothing more to do, since the most features got saved for the obligatory third version. BW post game was similiar with the post game areas, but have some more features like the Black City/White Forest, the E4 rematches where you battle Alder for the first time, some secret battles like Cynthia etc. I don't mean DP compared to XY, but DP compared to BW and GS.

 

[Bolt Strike]

It helps create a world that people enjoy and want to wander and explore, rather than everything being a set location according to the how main plot works and being funneled through it.

This. This is the main problem I have with the design direction of 5th and 6th gen, everything is far too streamlined and to the point and it doesn't give you as much freedom to go around and explore the game at your leisure. Which kind of an important element in an RPG.

BW have 40% of the region after the story and GS a whole region.

Stop right here. Using percentages is not a good way to compare content between games because it's relative to the size of the region. 40% of BW1 Unova is not the same as 40% of Kanto or 40% of Sinnoh and so on. And in fact, BW1 Unova is among the smallest regions in the series, so saying 40% of it is post game isn't really saying much. What that really says about BW1 Unova is that the post game is decent but the main game is way too small.

 

[Icy Wind]

You know, people find value in different things than you right? You say the above like every area you visit should be linked to the main plot. Which is honestly quite silly if that's how you think a game like this should work. Pokemon lets you travel around a region and for a lot of people exploring every nook and cranny of that region is a big deal - regardless of whether some of the areas are "meaningless" and has no effect on the game's plot. It helps create a world that people enjoy and want to wander and explore, rather than everything being a set location according to the how main plot works and being funneled through it.

I don't particularly care either way on this topic (these days I'm just in it for the Pokemon themselves) but sometimes you gotta understand that in RPGs, especially ones that try to offer a big adventure (e.g. exploring a region like this) that people will like some of the "optional" areas just as much as the main areas and that doesn't make you right to try and dismiss them like you have. RPGs that are large in what they offer (usually most tbh) tend to have that effect on people because the world feels more alive the less centered around the main plot everything is (it's one reason I don't find Pokemon all that great because the entire world's social structure seems to revolve around Gyms which I find too farfetch'd... but that's for another topic).

For example, why do you think people like the different trainer classes? They don't have any effect on the plot whatsoever (generally) so should we reduce all trainer classes down to just the few that could have an effect on the plot or maybe even just the one?

Honestly, reducing an RPGs world/exploration to weighing it on whether it effects the main plot or whether it's optional, is really just a bad way to look at things considering RPGs are about so much more for a lot of people and the combination of everything they offer. (Yes, even Pokemon surprisingly.)

Oh ok, i'm sorry because i have no idea what an "rpg" is supposed to be. I'm trying to say that "optional" areas aren't everyhthing about a game.

 

[Boss1708]

Guys, do you think Masuda and Ohmori really answered these questions on Twitter?

Because Masuda seems to imply Customisation might be in future games, when in other interviews he clearly said it is a Kalos exclusive. It is the fourth question:

All Your Silliest (And Most Important) Pokémon Questions Answered

 

[Isaac Gravity]

@Frozen ace trainer; RPG= Role Playing Game. The player, that is you, enters the game world through an avatar either an established character who can speak, has their own personality and story or an individual like the Pokemon Trainers or PMD MCs who act as our surrogates into the world. You could also say we become them as a result.

Its one of the forms of immersion as now we, as said avatar traverse the world and everything it has to offer. No matter the events scripted how each person is going to take the situation is going to be different. World building is a big thing in RPGs. So just being Point A to B to End is great in an action platformer but even with them there'll be plenty of one off routes full of challenges and such for the player to enter if they're feeling lucky and/or greedy. Options are a big thing for video games.

 

[NinjutsuSen]

Stop right here. Using percentages is not a good way to compare content between games because it's relative to the size of the region. 40% of BW1 Unova is not the same as 40% of Kanto or 40% of Sinnoh and so on. And in fact, BW1 Unova is among the smallest regions in the series, so saying 40% of it is post game isn't really saying much. What that really says about BW1 Unova is that the post game is decent but the main game is way too small.

And I am all telling about the post game. BW three citys and many features usually third versions include like E4 rematches. DP had like BW about the same amount of post game areas to explore but the traditional features like E4 rematches are missing in DP. DP main game was bigger, but BW post game was more complete. Since BW main game was fine with what it have, since the main game wasn't that much shorter, BW are still the more "complete" games for me.
BW2. GS and especially HG/SS tops both with the content.

Also bigger region doesn't automatically mean more content. Kalos was bigger than BW1 Unova, but XY was not that filled up with content like BW. Some features are missing and some are new.

 

[Bolt Strike]

And I am all telling about the post game. BW three citys and many features usually third versions include like E4 rematches.

DP also had 3 cities and Elite 4 rematches aren't exactly a huge deal.

DP had like BW about the same amount of post game areas to explore but the traditional features like E4 rematches are missing in DP.

You're making an awful big deal about Elite 4 rematches.

DP main game was bigger, but BW post game was more complete.

More complete? I don't see it. Both had plenty of areas to explore, tons of Pokemon to catch, a battling facility, and a couple of neat features and activities that unlocked. I'd say they're roughly equal.

Since BW main game was fine with what it have, since the main game wasn't that much shorter, BW are still the more "complete" games for me.

Not that much shorter? There were only 11 main game routes, 10 cities, and 11 dungeons. DP had 23 routes, 13 cities, and 11 dungeons. So yeah, DP's main game is significantly bigger than BW1's, roughly 30% bigger.

BW2. GS and especially HG/SS tops both with the content.

HGSS is kind of tricky to classify because of the two region system. Kanto is kind of post game but it's also... not, so I don't really count it.

Also bigger region doesn't automatically mean more content. Kalos was bigger than BW1 Unova, but XY was not that filled up with content like BW. Some features are missing and some are new.

That's because XY was the polar opposite of BW1 Unova, a lengthy main game but a virtually nonexistent post game.