Generation VI: The Future

[Icy Wind]

They need to do more than competitive to appeal to adults. Adults, especially the hardcore adults that have grown up with the series, don't want simple, dumbed down games with little explorationand extra content. If Game Freak is going to truly appeal to both audiences they can't continue with this trend towards simplicity, they need a formula that allows the games to be simple and complex at the same time and let the player choose the kind of experience they want.

You know, not every game in existence can appeal to everybody.

 

[Soki]

If customers don't ask themselves "Hmm... Should I choose Pokemon or Yokai?", I don't see why GF should care.

Well, games are quite expensive and most of the target group for both Pokémon and Yokai isn't rich, so they actually will ask themselves which of the games they'll buy.

 

[Bolt Strike]

You know, not every game in existence can appeal to everybody.

True, but they should strive to make their games appeal to as broad a market as possible. They're not maximizing their audience and profitability with this kind of mentality. They can't be everything to everyone but there are ways for them to keep older fans happy while still making the games accessible to the casual audience they're attracting, the two fanbases aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Soki]

True, but they should strive to make their games appeal to as broad a market as possible. They're not maximizing their audience and profitability with this kind of mentality.

Sadly more and more game companies/publishers seem to stop caring about this. Heard of Battlefront? Lots of 'hardcore' gamers have complained the game is way too easy (it's a remake of a much harder game) and even EA themselves admitted they did that on purpose so 'everyone' can play it.

And then there's GameFreak insisting people don't have time for games anymore cause 'everyone has smartphones now and play games on those'.

So I'm afraid we're not getting any harder Pokémon games anytime soon, as much as I hate that.

 

[Icy Wind]

So I'm afraid we're not getting any harder Pokémon games anytime soon, as much as I hate that.

Were pokemon games that hard to begin with? Because i've been playing pokemon since i was ~10(gen 3) and i rarely ever have trouble in any of them, and if you want a game that's "challenging" then why don't you go play a game that is meant to be challenging?

 

[Desdar300]

First off Happy Holidays you'll! Second, as I said a couple of pages ago I have no problem with Gen seven or another gen 6 game happening but if the former is going down soon then why give Zygaede any attention? The marketing is all off in that regard especially since almost everything has gone into Z mode when early promotion for thoroughly brand new Pokémon would've caused even more attention and likely broken the internet.

 

[Soki]

Were pokemon games that hard to begin with? Because i've been playing pokemon since i was ~10(gen 3) and i rarely ever have trouble in any of them

I still play Platinum and SoulSilver from time to time and they're definitely harder. Just compare Cynthia's champion battle with that of Diantha. When playing Y I don't think I've ever even touched the grass, cause training was completely unneeded, you just walk and beat everyone in your path. In ORAS I don't think I even touched one potion. It's so boring.

and if you want a game that's "challenging" then why don't you go play a game that is meant to be challenging?

... I also play games that are challenging? Some people play more games? Some people like games but wish they were a bit more challenging so they're even more fun? How stupid is this question?

 

[Boss1708]

That timing makes sense actually. Game Freak has to have been working on the next game since XY, then they saw in 2014 that the fanbase wasn't happy with ORAS and Yokai Watch was cutting into their business. But 6 months or so later they realized they bit off more than they could chew and they needed to delay the game to



A new generation wouldn't be as surprising as an old generation that changes the entire formula, so they'd get more attention. Plus, new generations typically don't have as much content, so it wouldn't be as strong a competitior.



It means putting new Pokemon in an existing region. And yes, they can do that at the same time as 7th gen, they've already toned down the number of Pokemon they introduce anyway so it's easier for them to release Pokemon in more games.



They do actually. XY has the least to offer out of any Pokemon game in the last 10 years and ORAS is a step down from Emerald and offered less than HGSS.



If they're not thinking about this at all then they're not good businessmen, the games have been selling less and less since 4th gen. Surely they're not that stupid to allow Pokemon to continue this way until it runs out of customers.



Another casual, monster battle RPG isn't in competition with Pokemon? What kind of market do you think this is?



They need to do more than competitive to appeal to adults. Adults, especially the hardcore adults that have grown up with the series, don't want simple, dumbed down games with little exploration and extra content. If Game Freak is going to truly appeal to both audiences they can't continue with this trend towards simplicity, they need a formula that allows the games to be simple and complex at the same time and let the player choose the kind of experience they want.

- Game Freak used nearly their entire staff to produce ORAS. Plus external help from other companies in order to speed up the process. There was nobody left to develop Z. They only started with Z or whatever game is next after finishing ORAS. Which is why they are taking longer. Thinking that Z will be developed for 3 years (2014, 2015, 2016) is completely ridiculous.

- Gen VI hasn't got less content than past generations. It has just as much OR MORE content. ORAS in particular added much more over Emerald than the very few features it omitted, so ultimately, you just don't like the content Gen VI offers and are trying to make it look as if all that content wasn't there. It's just that said content doesn't cater to you xD

Game Freak are giving us a lot more than you admit, and honestly, I think Game Freak and Nintendo have better marketing agents than us

- How many adults you honestly think play Pokemon for the difficulty or Battle Frontier? Very, very few. Most play it out of nostalgia, or for online play . And Game Freak caters a lot to both.

 

[Icy Wind]

I still play Platinum and SoulSilver from time to time and they're definitely harder. Just compare Cynthia's champion battle with that of Diantha. When playing Y I don't think I've ever even touched the grass, cause training was completely unneeded, you just walk and beat everyone in your path. In ORAS I don't think I even touched one potion. It's so boring.

And i restarted on my platinum last month and i didn't struggle against anybody in the region.

So yeah.

...I also play games that are challenging? Some people play more games? Some people like other games but wish they were a bit more challenging so they're even more fun? How stupid is thisquestion?

By that, i meant that the games never enphased on "difficulty". But since i didn't have trouble in my gen 4 games and you did, difficulty is entirely subjective; it all depends on the style/strategy of the player. Also, if it's the infamous exp. share that makes the game "too easy" for you then don't use it. Simple as that.

 

[Jolty94]

- Game Freak used nearly their entire staff to produce ORAS. Plus external help from other companies in order to speed up the process. There was nobody left to develop Z. They only started with Z or whatever game is next after finishing ORAS. Which is why they are taking longer. Thinking that Z will be developed for 3 years (2014, 2015, 2016) is completely ridiculous.

- Gen VI hasn't got less content than past generations. It has just as much OR MORE content. ORAS in particular added much more over Emerald than the very few features it omitted, so ultimately, you just don't like the content Gen VI offers and are trying to make it look as if all that content wasn't there. It's just that said content doesn't cater to you xD

Game Freak are giving us a lot more than you admit, and honestly, I think Game Freak and Nintendo have better marketing agents than us

- How many adults you honestly think play Pokemon for the difficulty or Battle Frontier? Very, very few. Most play it out of nostalgia, or for online play . And Game Freak caters a lot to both.

Saying "There was nobody left to develop Z" is borderline crazy lol. Even if there was evidence of Masuda saying "EVERYONE'S WORKING ON ORAS, NOTHING ELSE", that doesn't cancel out a small portion of staff starting to develop 'Z' towards the end of ORAS production. What lead you to "There was nobody left to develop Z"? cause as far as I know, you don't even think there is a Z?

 

[Bolt Strike]

- Game Freak used nearly their entire staff to produce ORAS. There was nobody left to develop Z. They only started with Z or whatever game is next after finishing ORAS. Which is why they are taking longer. Thinking that Z will be developed for 3 years (2014, 2015, 2016) is completely ridiculous.

Wait, really? They've got a lot bigger problems if ORAS is the best they can do with a full staff. Even taking the 3D graphics into account, the game feels very half-assed. They can do better than that, they just choose not to.

- Gen VI hasn't got less content than past generations. It has just as much OR MORE content. ORAS in particular added much more over Emerald than what it omitted, so ultimately, you just don't like the content Gen VI offers and are trying to make it look as if all that content wasn't there. It's just that said content doesn't cater to you xD

No, it didn't. The problem with XY and ORAS is that while they do offer a lot of extra things, most of them are small and shallow and don't really measure up to what they gave us in the past. There's simply nothing in those games that really compares to the vast post game offerings or the in depth sidequests (aside from ORAS having Contests and Secret Bases which were in every Hoenn game in the first place) of past installments.

Game Freak are giving us a lot more than you admit, and honestly, I think Game Freak and Nintendo have better marketing agents than us

That's why their games and consoles are selling lower and lower, right? Game Freak and Nintendo are so out of touch with what the market wants and makes so many questionable business decisions that if I had the same kind of technical expertise and resources they do, I honestly believe I could do better than them.

- How many adults you honestly think play Pokemon for the difficulty or Battle Frontier? Very, very few. Most play it out of nostalgia, or for online play .

A lot more than you seem to think. Adults don't like to be spoonfed, you're not going to attract a lot of them if you force that approach on them.

 

[Icy Wind]

Alot more than you seem to think. Adults don't like to be spoonfed, you're not going to attract a lot of them if you forcethat approachon them.

Considering that the pokemon main series game are generally rated as PG3+(PG7+ for x and y and oras), it doesn't matter what the "adults" say.

 

[Soki]

And i restarted on my platinum last month and i didn't struggle against anybody in the region.

So yeah.

By that, i meant that the games never enphased on "difficulty". But since i didn't have trouble in my gen 4 games and you did, difficulty is entirely subjective; it all depends on the style/stretegy of the player. Also, if it's the infamous exp. share that makes the game "too easy" for you then don't use it. Simple as that.

The exp. share is indeed one thing, but:

Gen I R/B: Last four gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen II G/S: Last gym leader has 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen III R/S: Two of the last gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon (Tate&Liza being an odd exception), champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen IV D/P: Last two gym leaders have 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen V B/W: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen VI X/Y: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon. (said 4 before, sorry, mistake)

So it is a fact that the games have become easier, at least the gym leaders and the last champion have. And for what reason? I don't think anyone ever complained about the games being too hard, so why the hell were they made even easier to a point where they're getting boring for some? That is what puzzles me the most.

 

[Jolty94]

I think the point Bolt was trying to make was that; we really DON'T like being spoon fed information, and whilst yes, the games are rated PG7+, that doesn't mean it has to be watered down to the point of no return. Evidently, it DOES matter what the adults say, cause even if it was only the young kids showing interest, the adults are the ones with the cash in their pockets. Yes, kids can cry and plead for games, but parents aren't so easily won over. Their target audience is literally ages 6-40 whether they are aware of it or not lol. With the rise and fall of sales, they can't sit there and say "ok guys, the KIDS didn't like it, let's cater to THEM, screw the adults completely", and vice-versa, which may seem somewhat contradictory on my part, but what I'm trying to say is, I think they are very much aware of how many older fans they do have.

 

[Icy Wind]

The exp. share is indeed one thing, but:

Gen I R/B: Last four gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen II G/S: Last gym leader has 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen III R/S: Two of the last gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon (Tate&Liza being an odd exception), champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen IV D/P: Last two gym leaders have 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen V B/W: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen VI X/Y: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 4 pokémon.

So it is a fact that the games have become easier, at least the gym leaders and the last champion have. And for what reason? I don't think anyone ever complained about the games being too hard, so why the hell were they made even easier to a points that they're getting boring? That is what puzzles me the most.

No it isn't. The number of pokemon doesn't correlate to the "difficulty" of the game. Whitney is a gym leader that is notorious for her difficulty(although i personally didn't have trouble with her) yet she only has two pokemon on her team!

I think the point Bolt was trying to make was that; we really DON'T like being spoon fed information, and whilst yes, the games are rated PG7+, that doesn't mean it has to be watered down to the point of no return. Evidently, it DOES matter what the adults say, cause even if it was only the young kids showing interest, the adults are the ones with the cash in their pockets. Yes, kids can cry and plead for games, but parents aren't so easily won over. Theirtarget audience is literally ages 6-40 whether they are aware of it or not lol. With the rise and fall of sales, they can't sit there and say "ok guys, the KIDS didn't like it, let's cater to THEM, screw the adults completely", and vice-versa, which may seem somewhatcontradictory on my part, butwhat I'm trying to say is, I thinkthey are very much aware of howmany older fans they do have.

And that's entirely subjective. See, this is the exact the same case as final fantasy 13; that game was almost torn apart for being "too linear" unlike the other FF games, because it simply failed to meet to the fan's personal expectations. But not every adult cares about "hand holding" or whatever. Face it, you guys can't accept changes. And seriously? You guys are overexaggerating the "downgrade" in sales of the franchise; BW sold about ~15.1 and x and y sold about ~14.1. But let's not forget the fact the 3ds had much lower sales than the ds of course.

 

[BlackButterfree]

The exp. share is indeed one thing, but:

Gen I R/B: Last four gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen II G/S: Last gym leader has 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen III R/S: Two of the last gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon (Tate&Liza being an odd exception), champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen IV D/P: Last two gym leaders have 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen V B/W: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen VI X/Y: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 4 pokémon.

So it is a fact that the games have become easier, at least the gym leaders and the last champion have. And for what reason? I don't think anyone ever complained about the games being too hard, so why the hell were they made even easier to a point where they're getting boring for some? That is what puzzles me the most.

Diantha has a full team, though... Do you mean the E4?

 

[Bolt Strike]

Considering that the pokemon main series game are generally rated as PG3+(PG7+ for x and y and oras), it doesn't matter what the "adults" say.

3+ and 7+ means that anyone that age or older can play it, it doesn't mean that only gamers ages 3-7 can play it. Adults are older than 3-7, so they are part of the audience.

The exp. share is indeed one thing, but:

Gen I R/B: Last four gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen II G/S: Last gym leader has 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen III R/S: Two of the last gym leaders have at least 4 pokémon (Tate&Liza being an odd exception), champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen IV D/P: Last two gym leaders have 4 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen V B/W: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 6 pokémon.
Gen VI X/Y: Gym leaders never have more than 3 pokémon, champion has 4 pokémon.

So it is a fact that the games have become easier, at least the gym leaders and the last champion have. And for what reason? I don't think anyone ever complained about the games being too hard, so why the hell were they made even easier to a point where they're getting boring for some? That is what puzzles me the most.

Actually, the Champion always has 6 Pokemon, but in 5th and 6th gen, the Elite 4 never has more than 4 and the Rivals never have more than 4 or 5 until post game rematches.

With the rise and fall of sales, they can't sit there and say "ok guys, the KIDS didn't like it, let's cater to THEM, screw the adults completely", and vice-versa, which may seem somewhat contradictory on my part, but what I'm trying to say is, I think they are very much aware of how many older fans they do have.

Pretty much this, yeah. Trading one audience for another like they did in 5th gen generally isn't good business sense unless you're really failing and I'm pretty sure Game Freak isn't.

No it isn't. The number of pokemon doesn't correlate to the "difficulty" of the game. Whitney is a gym leader that is notorious for her difficulty(although i personally didn't have trouble with her) yet she only has two pokemon on her team!

There's other factors in difficulty, sure, but more Pokemon does make the battle more difficult, it's just common sense. The more Pokemon you have to fight the greater the chance they can wear you down.

 

[Soki]

Diantha has a full team, though... Do you mean the E4?

Oops, you're right, saw that wrong, fixed it. It's indeed the E4 that suddenly had less Pokémon (4 instead of 5), not the champion.

There's other factors in difficulty, sure, but more Pokemon does make the battle more difficult, it's just common sense. The more Pokemon you have to fight the greater the chance they can wear you down.

This.

 

[Icy Wind]

There's other factors in difficulty, sure, but more Pokemon does make the battle more difficult, it's just common sense. The more Pokemon you have to fight the greater the chance they can wear you down.

No. Let's take blaine in rb/frlg, for example, with his team of ponyta, growlithe, rapidash and arcanine. Yeah, he uses weak NFE pokemon to fill in the gapes of his team. Did you really think they had a "chance" to bring you down? I don't think so.

 

[Desdar300]

The games have always been easy and the fact that literally thousands of people on Twitch has beaten every main-series game by just pushing buttons proves that to be true. I do think that GF should be a bit more risky though and shake off some of the negative stereotypes they created for themselves.