Generation VI: The Future

[Karamazov]

On the difficulty front, Olympia is the only Gym Leader whose Pokemon all have four moves; Wulfric and Valerie have a Pokemon with only 3 moves; Viola, Korrina and Clemont's Pokemon all have 3 moves; only one of Ramos's has four moves, and it isn't his main player; Grant's Tyrunt has 3 moves. Korrina fights you with two Lucario earlier on, and they both have 4 moves, though they apparently have the same moveset. Also, none of the Gym Leaders have Pokemon with items during Gym Battles.

For Pokemon Z/Gen VI.5/whatever, I'd like to see their Pokemon gain some good moves and items. Glancing at the movesets we have on the GL's Pokemon, here are some suggestions. (Keep in mind I'm reading what their movesets & abilities from Bulbapedia.)

Spoiler

• Ramos's Gogoat's only Grass move is Grass Knot. Give it Horn Leech early, or Seed Bomb.
• Ramos's Jumpluff should get Sleep Powder or Synthesis. Considering how fast Jumpluff is, Synthesis would probably be less annoying.
• Korrina's Hawlucha has Unburden. It could hold a Flying Gem and have Acrobatics on its moveset. This would also let her Hawlucha to counter Ghost types.
• Maybe just slap a Gem on all of the Gym Leaders' aces? /lazy
• Korrina could have a Regenerator Mienfoo instead of one with Inner Focus, and it could have U-Turn. If we're not changing its ability, give it Poison Jab to counter Fairies and hit Ghost types.
• Viola has Water Sport on her Surskit, which is decent for fighting off Fire types like Litleo, Pansear and Fennekin. But maybe her Vivillon could have an Occa Berry, an item to prevent Burns, or Powder. Also, give it Light Screen or Stun Spore, and replace Tackle with Gust.
• Maybe give Viola's Surskit Sticky Web, like in the anime? But I'm fine with it having a filler move, or only 3.
• I want to give Grant's Tyrunt Zen Headbutt, to cover his weakness to Fighting types. I'm thinking that might be a little much for the second Gym Leader, but you also have Golett nearby (which is weak to its Bite.) Inkay's also immune to Zen Headbutt.
• Clemont is a genius, but he doesn't offer much of a defense. Give his Emolga Thunder Wave and replace its Aerial Ace with Air Slash.
• Clemont's Magneton gets Rain Dance and a Damp Rock to support his Dry Skin Heliolisk. Maybe replace Thunderbolt with Thunder?
• Clemont's Heliolisk can get Parabolic Charge or Dragon Tail, like in the anime.
• Wulfric's Abomasnow gets Water Pulse to deal with Fire and Rock Pokemon? Or Wulfric changes his specialty to a type that isn't so crap. When you have your Gym Leader himself admitting that the fight can probably very easy, you have a problem.
• Stealth edit: Give Wulfric's Abomasnow a Mega Stone. He's shown to care about Pokemon in Pokemon Village, and this would make him seem more caring, in addition to making him more powerful.

 

[Desdar300]

I heard somewhere that GameFreak's AI has levels ranging from 0 (easiest) to 150 (apocalypse imminent), but the strongest trainers in-game cap out at about 120, with the average trainer being in the 80's. I'll try to find it, but I'm sure I've read it.

Easy mode could be AI with levels from 0-50, Regular mode could be AI 51-100, and Expert mode could be 101-150, then it would be a bit more fun for everyone.

You've knack for great ideas Butterfree! I would love for GF to take this approach .

 

[Bolt Strike]

I get it if your Pokemin where in the low 70s while battling the league, but anything over 75 and there is no way you weren't grinding to an extreme. With the game having a fixed exp gain from everything and no rematches available, I don't see how you were able to gain that many experience points unless your Pokemon where all traded or yiu had O powers activated.

I didn't do anything special aside from turning the Exp. Share on and battling every trainer and my Pokemon ended up around Lv. 80 by the time I beat the game.

Maybe GF should bring back the EXP system from Gen V. I know everyone hated that, but if you want increased difficulty...

Increasing grinding is artificial difficulty, it doesn't really make the game harder as much as it makes it longer and more annoying. The only way to really increase difficulty is with better AI and better team design.

 

[casanova.v2]

Are you kidding me? The older games were insanely hard. To this day, as a Pokémon veteran, having played every game as they came out starting from Blue, I have yet to even beat Lorelei, much less become Kanto League Champion. The only time I beat a Champion was when my friend traded me their Level 99 Typhlosion in Silver, which became one of my fondest companions, and when I decided to use Treecko in Emerald.

Then Generation 4 came, and I've beaten every game since. Hell, I'm doing a replay of Ruby right now and it's just as infuriating and difficult as I remember, while I was able to sweep through AlphaSapphire in less than a week (I started my replay of Ruby a week before ORAS' release, for reference).

So no, the games have not always been easy. They started becoming easy with Gen. 4 onwards, and became literal child's play in Gen. 6... Sorry, not sorry.

In blue you defeat everything with a underleveled blastoise with ice beam.

The only hard champion is Cynthia... and the only hard enemy is ghetsis. Thats gen 4 and 5.

Gen 1-3 and 6 were easy. Thats nostalgia talking for you.

 

[BlackButterfree]

In blue you defeat everything with a underleveled blastoise with ice beam.

The only hard champion is Cynthia... and the only hard enemy is ghetsis. Thats gen 4 and 5.

Gen 1-3 and 6 were easy. Thats nostalgia talking for you.

Nostalgia talking for me? How about that's you speaking for me. I didn't ask for your interpretation, I shared my experiences. My experience of playing both Generations 6 and 3 literally simultaneously. You don't believe me? Fine. Then don't reply, simple as that.

 

[Proxima Centauri B]

Mod Note: Guys Ive noticed a few rude replies here lately, please dont respond rudely to other users, if you feel a user is unfairly attacking or flaming you, report it please.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

On the difficulty front, Olympia is the only Gym Leader whose Pokemon all have four moves; Wulfric and Valerie have a Pokemon with only 3 moves; Viola, Korrina and Clemont's Pokemon all have 3 moves; only one of Ramos's has four moves, and it isn't his main player; Grant's Tyrunt has 3 moves. Korrina fights you with two Lucario earlier on, and they both have 4 moves, though they apparently have the same moveset. Also, none of the Gym Leaders have Pokemon with items during Gym Battles.

And don't forget those awful "Challenge Writ" Pokemon at the Battle Chateau. Like Diantha's Stored Power Gardevoir with no boosting moves...Korrina's Lucario with Heal Pulse in Singles...Siebold's Starmie with Swift as its only attack...Clemont's Gyro Ball Magnezone...Ugh...lol. The list goes on. And everyone has only 2-4 Pokemon, no held items either.

That's not just too easy, its downright careless design. Especially in light of how they went about the PWT. It'd be nice see them go back to that sort of team building.

 

[Icy Wind]

Increasing grinding is artificial difficulty, it doesn't really make the game harder as much as it makes it longer and more annoying. The only way to really increase difficulty is with better AI and better team design.

Considering how much people are complaining that the new exp. share makes training "too easy", i don't think bringing back the exp. system from gen 5 is a bad idea.

 

[Soki]

What post game facility do you expect for the next game? The Battle Maison again, the Hoenn Battle Frontier, a new Battle Frontier, a PW Tournament, or a brand new facility...

Personally, I expect the Battle Maison again, plus an other facility, like the PW Tournament, or a new original Facility.

The Battle Maison is easy to reuse, so I doubt they would miss the opportunity to, ambut they also said they want to surprise us, so I think it could mean a new, original Facility.

If we get the same copy/paste Battle Maison again, GameFreak wins the award for "most lazy game company that has ever existed". I'm fine with the Battle Maison returning, but dear god at least change something. Would be nice if Amie and Super Training got some changes too, still can't forgive them for simply copying those in ORAS, especially since Super Training mostly contains Kalos Pokémon.

I heard somewhere that GameFreak's AI has levels ranging from 0 (easiest) to 150 (apocalypse imminent), but the strongest trainers in-game cap out at about 120, with the average trainer being in the 80's. I'll try to find it, but I'm sure I've read it.

Easy mode could be AI with levels from 0-50, Regular mode could be AI 51-100, and Expert mode could be 101-150, then it would be a bit more fun for everyone.

THAT would be awesome. It's really all they have to do, give us difficulty modes. You did it once, GameFreak, you can do it again, please.

 

[Jolty94]

In blue you defeat everything with a underleveled blastoise with ice beam.

The only hard champion is Cynthia... and the only hard enemy is ghetsis. Thats gen 4 and 5.

Gen 1-3 and 6 were easy. Thats nostalgia talking for you.

I have to disagree. I've been doing a run through of LG recently, I have a team of five (blastoise, exxegutor, pidgeot, hitmonlee, nidoqueen), all have great movesets, and were levels 49-52 through victory road, I basically got slaughtered, and I'm very experienced. Ace trainer with a Chansey level 42- minimize, sing, softboiled, yes, so SO Easy lol. Another example would be the elite four switching out to counter the type you're using. The use of full restores a good couple of times, it was challening and awesome that I can still struggle with that, and in gen 6 the same trainer with a chansey for example will only have doubleslap lol.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Considering how much people are complaining that the new exp. share makes training "too easy", i don't think bringing back the exp. system from gen 5 is a bad idea.

Just because the training system is too easy doesn't mean making the training system too hard is a good idea. They're opposite extremes, we need a system somewhere in between. Frankly, I think they messed with the EXP system too much to begin with, it was mainly fine in 4th gen, the only real problem was that it took a while to train up low level stuff (obviously).

 

[casanova.v2]

I have to disagree. I've been doing a run through of LG recently, I have a team of five (blastoise, exxegutor, pidgeot, hitmonlee, nidoqueen), all have great movesets, and were levels 49-52 through victory road, I basically got slaughtered, and I'm very experienced. Ace trainer with a Chansey level 42- minimize, sing, softboiled, yes, so SO Easy lol. Another example would be the elite four switching out to counter the type you're using. The use of full restores a good couple of times, it was challening and awesome that I can still struggle with that, and in gen 6 the same trainer with a chansey for example will only have doubleslap lol.

Lg you said. Thats gen 3, the first games were gen 1. On gameboy. With other mechanics and bugs.

I played every single game on their original cartridges and still have them. The first generation is easy because of the simplicity of the mechanics (and the bugs) and the poor pokemon selection of the e4. On the second gen the only dificult npc is red, but that is because of the dificulty of the level grind post- Johto

Remakes are diferent, you have evs, habilities, and other things, Green is tough on gen3 remakes. On the original games is not.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

BTW, does anyone think that Pokemon~Amie should be nerfed while we're at it?

I just thought about it, but getting all those increased odds of breaking the game so easily could very well factor into some of the complaints about difficulty. lol. At the same time, its only really busted if you go out of your way to hit 4 hearts. Or...If you want to raise a Sylveon at all. Though I am curious what people think.

 

[casanova.v2]

Im replaying ORAS because of boredom. If you dont use amie. ST and exp share the game is a bit more dificult. The game doesnt need to be nerfed or made more difficult per se. Its a kids game for arceus sake, you can play with your own rules to get the complexity you need.

For example i tossed the starter to the box and now im playing with bug type pokemon found in the first routes. When a wild lv4 pokemon with boomburst (damn you dexnav! Damn yoooou!!!!) ravages your entire team with an overpowered attack you know you are facing a challenge. I dont do nuzlokes because i dont like them, but if you want challenge, you can play that mode too.

The real challenge starts when you complete the game and fight battles online. Story mode is just for new players, that is what GF wants.

 

[Zeb]

I already said for difficulty ages ago (I think it was even in this thread) that the easiest way to satisfy both sides is difficulty levels. That way these people who think the game is already easy and like it how it is can just play on normal and those of us that want a more challenging game can play on hard. It also still works for kids vs adults, if that's still an argument. Kids on normal, adults on hard. It's not rocket science and everyone is happy (well probably not knowing Pokemon fans!).

Each side can get what they want without it affecting the other side.

B2W2 hard mode, while being nothing revolutionary, gave a decent playthrough thanks to higher levels, larger teams and more hold item use by the NPCs. I can't remember if movesets were changed too, it's been ages since I played it, but that's a big thing they could look into in the next game if they didn't.

Of course this is dependent on Game Freak being normal and implementing difficulty levels in a standard way at the start of the game and not this absurd you-get-them-after-beating-the-game-and-can't-restart-or-you'll-lose-them method.

And Kara's post hits a big point pretty much on the head in regards to the games difficulty these days. Some of the trainers in game don't even have four moves (and these are meant to be "boss" style characters!). Your last battle with Tierno has his Roserade with one move for example. ONE. It's a joke really when you think about it.

@Karamazov; I like your suggested changes, but Charti (I think that's the Rock resist one?) is a berry that Vivillon could have too. Because beating Viola with Chespin is way too easy. Send it out against Surskit and click Rollout. There. You've already won. Which is ironic because you'd think the Grass-type would struggle most with a Bug gym out of Grass/Fire/Water trio, but nope!

Of course maybe resist berries at the first gym should be saved for the higher difficulty setting. Wouldn't make much sense to bamboozle new players at the first gym like that.

 

[Jolty94]

Lg you said. Thats gen 3, the first games were gen 1. On gameboy. With other mechanics and bugs.

I played every single game on their original cartridges and still have them. The first generation is easy because of the simplicity of the mechanics (and the bugs) and the poor pokemon selection of the e4. On the second gen the only dificult npc is red, but that is because of the dificulty of the level grind post- Johto

Remakes are diferent, you have evs, habilities, and other things, Green is tough on gen3 remakes. On the original games is not.

Yes, but you're missing the point, Gens 1 & 2 have equally similar and awkwardly long, fun, battles. Gen 6 trainers don't spam moves like minimize & sing, it was a common thing back in the day to feel like it was a real adventure with real challenges. And the exact same trainer from LG in Victory road is actually stronger in Gen 1, and the Chansey is even more difficult to defeat. Most of the levels of the trainers in Victory road between Gens 1 & 3 were dropped by at least 1. So, no, not much difference between the remakes difficulty and the originals.

 

[casanova.v2]

Yes, but you're missing the point, Gens 1 & 2 have equally similar and awkwardly long, fun, battles. Gen 6 trainers don't spam moves like minimize & sing, it was a common thing back in the day to feel like it was a real adventure with real challenges. And the exact same trainer from LG in Victory road is actually stronger in Gen 1, and the Chansey is even more difficult to defeat. Most of the levels of the trainers in Victory road between Gens 1 & 3 were dropped by at least 1. So, no, not much difference between the remakes difficulty and the originals.

I never posted gen6 were hard.

 

[Jolty94]

But you basically said that the mechanics that weren't present in Gen 1, make the game less challenging, which is actually not the case, the levels were higher to make up for what was potentially "missing" at that moment in time. I was just generally saying Gen 6 is annoying in that respect, not easier, just no movesets given to trainers Pokémon that benefit them or the game in the long term.

Edit: although yes, difficulty is a matter of opinion, but comparing Gen 1 & 3 saying the first didn't implement the same as the latter is partially incorrect as it was the base they worked off of, for the remakes. ORAS didn't do so well in that department, only the slight level changes that didn't matter because of the OP'd players team.

 

[Icy Wind]

Just because the training system is too easy doesn't mean making the training system too hard is a good idea. They're opposite extremes, we need a system somewhere in between. Frankly, I think they messed with the EXP system too much to begin with, it was mainly fine in 4th gen, the only real problem was that it took a while to train up low level stuff (obviously).

I didn't think it was hard at all to level grind with gen 5's exp. system. Plus, if you can combine it with this gen's exp. share, you have an easy way to grind through the game without being overlevelled.

 

[Matleo]

if the level of oponents pokemon would be somehow counted and adjusted from your strongest pokemon and the average of your all team, then that overlevell and underlevel problem of oponents would be solved.(hardness level: easy, medium, hard)