Generation VI: The Future

[Esserise]

So what, you think it's just coincidence that every box legend is in this list while tons of other legends aren't? We're not saying this is a reveal, we're saying this clearly shows the organisers consider Zygarde in the same category as they do as every box mascot legend. The link is undeniable.

The other Legendary Pokémon do not need to be listed because they are already normally allowed. The list on the site says that you can use any (non-mythical) Pokémon from 1-720. These guys only get a direct mention because they are usually banned. Now, for this competition, they are not.

So this is not even anything new. Zygarde has been among these Pokémon for as long as we have known about Zygarde's existence, because it is always included among the list of banned Pokémon, and this is just that same list of banned Pokémon.

And it isn't that they are box mascots. Again, Mewtwo isn't one. These Pokémon are simply the non-mythical ones that do not fit into one of the "minor" duos or trios and are not Gen IV's three unrelated/tangentially-related "minor" standalones (that is, Heatran, Regigigas, and Cresselia). *That* is the trait that these Pokémon all share - not mascothood.

 

[godiego]

The other Legendary Pokémon do not need to be listed because they are already normally allowed. The list on the site says that you can use any (non-mythical) Pokémon from 1-720. These guys only get a direct mention because they are usually banned. Now, for this competition, they are not.

So this is not even anything new. Zygarde has been among these Pokémon for as long as we have known about Zygarde's existence, because it is always included among the list of banned Pokémon, and this is just that same list of banned Pokémon.

And it isn't that they are box mascots. Again, Mewtwo isn't one. These Pokémon are simply the non-mythical ones that do not fit into one of the "minor" duos or trios and are not Gen IV's three unrelated/tangentially-related "minor" standalones (that is, Heatran, Regigigas, and Cresselia). *That* is the trait that these Pokémon all share - not mascothood.

i think that's the wrong approach, however. the real question is, as Silktree pointed out, why would Zygarde be banned? there's nothing really noteworthy about it to facilitate being banned. it has a 600 BST, lower than anything else on this list.

while i agree that it's probably not box legendaries (yet, at least), saying that it's not because Mewtwo seems a bit silly. though technically not a box legendary-- it hasn't appeared on a box-- it shares more in common with box legendaries.

 

[Boss1708]

All the news we are getting are basically shouting "Gen VI + Kalos + Zygarde".
At this point, I really can't see a reason to jump to a new generation. It would be very unexpected.

 

[!Z!]

The other Legendary Pokémon do not need to be listed because they are already normally allowed. The list on the site says that you can use any (non-mythical) Pokémon from 1-720. These guys only get a direct mention because they are usually banned. Now, for this competition, they are not.

So this is not even anything new. Zygarde has been among these Pokémon for as long as we have known about Zygarde's existence, because it is always included among the list of banned Pokémon, and this is just that same list of banned Pokémon.

And it isn't that they are box mascots. Again, Mewtwo isn't one. These Pokémon are simply the non-mythical ones that do not fit into one of the "minor" duos or trios and are not Gen IV's three unrelated/tangentially-related "minor" standalones (that is, Heatran, Regigigas, and Cresselia). *That* is the trait that these Pokémon all share - not mascothood.

So why is Zygarde grouped with the box mascots, and not as you say with Heatran, Cresselia etc? The reason is obvious. Like you said it only has a BST of 600. So why would it be banned along with all the other Mascots originally?

Because it is going to be a mascot.

I agree with Meta Boss to jump to a new generation as some are suggesting amongst all this build up is just illogical.

 

[Mehrunes_Bagon]

All the news we are getting are basically shouting "Gen VI + Kalos + Zygarde".
At this point, I really can't see a reason to jump to a new generation. It would be very unexpected.

It'd be the old bait n' switch

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

All the news we are getting are basically shouting "Gen VI + Kalos + Zygarde".
At this point, I really can't see a reason to jump to a new generation. It would be very unexpected.

Agreed. Xerneas and Yveltal both have 680 bst while Zygarde has only 600. Game Freak isn't going to leave Zygarde in that form when it is due to be giving a stronger form which is the complete form that we know. Plus it is the only other Kalos legendary to qualified as the next game mascot since Diancie, Hoopa and Volcanion are mythical pokemon that are only obtainable through serial code and wifi events. I can't believe that some would automatically jump to conclusion that we get gen 7 since we didn't get game announcement in the last months of 2015. Has it ever occurred to people that they might be working on something unique/special?

Pokemon Z is going to happen and we will get the announcement eventually. Some say Zygarde would be the mascot for gen 7 in southern Kalos but that makes no sense. Each gen (apart from gen 1) has legendary pokemon introduced in that gen as the mascots for that gen. I also don't think they would leave Zygarde as a post game because Giratina and Kyurem appeared in the main story in their games. It makes sense for Zygarde to have a game in gen 6.

 

[Boss1708]

Why would GF/TPC spend resources in creating more Kalos hype (C. Zygarde) if they were planning to skip a second pair of Kalos games in an unprecedented way...

 

[!Z!]

Why would GF/TPC spend resources in creating more Kalos hype (C. Zygarde) if they were planning to skip a second pair of Kalos games in an unprecedented way...

Exactly, people seem to forget the anime is just a giant advert for the games, and currently they are really promoting Kalos, Z and Zygarde, they aren't even hinting towards the next Gen, no new Pokemon have even been hinted at. They aren't promoting games that are over 2 years old either, they are building hype for the next Kalos instalment. Plus, all the time and effort, they put into designing Kalos, are they really going to scrap it after 1 set of games? I don't think so.

Not to mention, Kalos is only half of France, in the past when they have used the Japanese regions, they used the full region, then when they used NYC, they used 2/3 for Black and White, then the Western 1/3 was added in Black 2/White 2 meaning all of NYC was used. Now are people really suggesting when they decided to use France as the inspiration, they decided to only use the Northern half and move on? Completely skipping world famous cities like Marseille, Nice, Toulouse, Grenoble, and geographical areas like the Alps and Pyrenees? I don't think Gen 7 will be the Southern Half either, France is a nice place, but 2 whole Generations (6 -- 8 years) spent there, would be too much.

 

[Esserise]

So why is Zygarde grouped with the box mascots, and not as you say with Heatran, Cresselia etc? The reason is obvious. Like you said it only has a BST of 600. So why would it be banned along with all the other Mascots originally?

Because Zygarde is painfully, obviously connected to Xerneas and Yveltal. Nobody is disputing that - Zygarde belongs to a group. It isn't a standalone like the ones in Gen IV (where, if they even have connections to other Pokémon to begin with, they are either mythical (Cresselia/Darkrai) or from a previous generation (Regigigas/the golems)). But the group that Zygarde belongs to is not necessarily, automatically "box mascots."

As I say, Zygarde being included in that bunch of Pokémon is nothing new. It has been that way since 2013. Citing this as evidence that it will be a box mascot (which I am not even saying that it will not be - personally, I do not believe that it is likely to be, but I am not ruling anything out yet) is essentially just pointing out the obvious - that it is connected to Xerneas and Yveltal - and so this not-actually-new development adds nothing to either side's case. That's all I'm really saying - the only reason this is even being talked about is because Serebii was speaking broadly in his report.

 

[!Z!]

Because Zygarde is painfully, obviously connected to Xerneas and Yveltal. Nobody is disputing that - Zygarde belongs to a group. It isn't a standalone like the ones in Gen IV (where, if they even have connections to other Pokémon to begin with, they are either mythical (Cresselia/Darkrai) or from a previous generation (Regigigas/the golems)). But the group that Zygarde belongs to is not necessarily, automatically "box mascots."

As I say, Zygarde being included in that bunch of Pokémon is nothing new. It has been that way since 2013. Citing this as evidence that it will be a box mascot (which I am not even saying that it will not be - personally, I do not believe that it is likely to be, but I am not ruling anything out yet) is essentially just pointing out the obvious - that it is connected to Xerneas and Yveltal - and so this not-actually-new development adds nothing to either side's case. That's all I'm really saying - the only reason this is even being talked about is because Serebii was speaking broadly in his report.

I'm glad you admit the 3 are linked (that's more than we can get out of Bulbapedia ) but if you agree the 3 are linked, can't you see it would be odd to suddenly ditch Zygarde and give him like 0 game coverage? Especially with all this Zygarde hype and new formes seen in every other part of the franchise.

 

[Apawn:p]

Episode 909: The Strongest Mega Battle! Greninja VS Mega Charizard!!
This episode name doesn't seem at all strange at all, mainly the fact that Greninja isn't a Mega Pokemon

 

[Boss1708]

I hope Mega Greninja is a thing, just so Ash Greninja/ Fashion Ninja stays anime exclusive, I don't want that fashion bs in the main games.

 

[!Z!]

I hope Mega Greninja is a thing, just so Ash Greninja/ Fashion Ninja stays anime exclusive, I don't want that fashion bs inthe main games.

I believe this Synchronisation evolution is Mega evolution but without the need for a key stone/mega stone. Just think we have 48 Megas already, that means 48 mega stones, with more released with each instalment, soon the number would get too unmanageable, they'd need their own section in the bag, so I think this is a new mechanic where eventually you will Mega evolve without the need for Mega stones.

I think the fact he looks like Ash is just an in world coincidence (when they designed it they had Ash in mind I know) and that all Greninja's Mega evolved this way look like that, just look at the Special Greninja in the Ninja town episode the hero from the past had the same looking Greninja.

 

[Boss1708]

I believe this Synchronisation evolution is Mega evolution but without the need for a key stone/mega stone. Just think we have 48 Megas already, that means 48 mega stones, with more released with each instalment, soon the number would get too unmanageable, they'd need their own section in the bag, so I think this is a new mechanic where eventually you will Mega evolve without the need for Mega stones.

I think the fact he looks like Ash is just an in world coincidence (when they designed it they had Ash in mind I know) and that all Greninja's Mega evolved this way look like that, just look at the Special Greninja in the Ninja town episode the hero from the past had the same looking Greninja.

Then Synchros would have a big advantage over Megas: a free item slot. And Game Freak are not going to allow that. (Rayquaza is the exception).
The only way this could work is by making Synchros gain a +50 BST boost, instead of the +100 boost Megas recieve.

However I don't want any more new power up mechanics in Pokemon. I think Megas and Primals are more than enough, and coming up with more and more new mechanics could make Pokemon lose it's simplicity.

Also, if they wanna introduce more power ups please invent something better than "I become more powerful thanks to fashion". Uhh.

 

[!Z!]

Then Synchros would have a big advantage over Megas: a free item slot. And Game Freak are not going to allow that. (Rayquaza is the exception).
The only way this could work is by making Synchros gain a +50 BST boost, instead of the + 100 boost Megas recieve.

However I don't want any more new power up mechanics in Pokemon. I think Megas and Primals are more than enough, and coming up with more and more new mechanics could make Pokemon lose it's simplicity.

Also, if they wanna introduce more power ups please invent something better than "I become more powerful thanks to fashion". Uhh.

I think your missing the point, in my scenario "synchro's" are megas, it's the same thing, just without the stones. So what we call Ash Greninja, IS Mega Greninja, and were someone to have Greninjanite and a key stone, it'd look the same.

I can see them explaining it as something like, the key stone/mega stone act as a conduit, a bridge for the feelings of the trainer and the Pokemon, but if those feelings are strong enough they don't require the stones. At the moment, Mega evolution is possible as soon as you find the mega stone, but they keep stating it's about "the bond"

It would make the system much more simpler as they'd just have something like Amie to raise the bond, no need for 50+ different addition items scattered around the region.

And I don't get the bit about "powerful thanks to fashion" none of this links into customisation?

 

[Boss1708]

I think your missing the point, in my scenario "synchro's" are megas, it's the same thing, just without the stones. So what we call Ash Greninja, IS Mega Greninja, and were someone to have Greninjanite and a key stone, it'd look the same.

I can see them explaining it as something like, the key stone/mega stone act as a conduit, a bridge for the feelings of the trainer and the Pokemon, but if those feelings are strong enough they don't require the stones. At the moment, Mega evolution is possible as soon as you find the mega stone, but they keep stating it's about "the bond"

It would make the system much more simpler as they'd just have something like Amie to raise the bond, no need for 50+ different addition items scattered around the region.

And I don't get the bit about "powerful thanks to fashion" none of this links into customisation?

You didn't adress my main issue: Megas give a 100+ BST power up, at the cost of occupying thr item slot.

If synchros are megas without mega stones, and give the same +100 boost, they would offer an unfair advantage over Megas.

Also, would that mean synchros have a stronger bond than Megas? Nah. It would make Megas look half assed. Game Freak didn't create the concept of Mega Evolution only to scrap mega stones in a few gsmes. They better come with a better solution than this.

 

[Tuoko]

However I don't want any more new power up mechanics in Pokemon. I think Megas and Primals are more than enough, and coming up with more and more new mechanics could make Pokemon lose it's simplicity.

To be fair, was Pokemon ever really simple to begin with? Evolution methods as the series goes on just keep getting more and more ridiculous, then there's EVs, and so on. And didn't OR/AS imply there's more evolutions lost in time? I'd be surprised if they just went with Megas and Primals.

 

[Boss1708]

To be fair, was Pokemon ever really simple to begin with? Evolution methods as the series goes on just keep getting more and more ridiculous, then there's EVs, and so on. And didn't OR/AS imply there's more evolutions lost in time? I'd be surprise if they just went with Megas and Primals.

I think Pokemon had this beautiful simplicity (at least on the surface). And I think this simplicity was intact until gen VI.

With Megas and Primals part of this simplicity was lost. But still, they are very cool additions, and I think the little overcomplication is worth it for such cool concepts (I am a fan of both).

Now, if they go on and keep introducing more and more new boosting mechanics, they could ruin the experience. I hope they don't do that, but I agree they probably will.

I think Megas and Primals mark a line, and I don't want to see it crossed, personally. I don't want this to end up being Dragon Ball.

 

[!Z!]

You didn't adress my main issue: Megas give a 100+ BST power up, at the cost of occupying thr item slot.

If synchros are megas without mega stones, and give the same +100 boost, they would offer an unfair advantage over Megas.

Also, would that mean synchros have a stronger bond than Megas? Nah. It would make Megas look half assed.

You keep trying to distinguish the two, it's not about having an advantage over megas, as stated these would be considered megas. You're just removing the stone requirment. It wouldn't mean some have an advantage over others, as every Mega would be achievable in this way. If you do insist on it having a draw back though, a recent preview of an upcoming episode mentioned they didn't know what caused it or why it happened. It could be similar to other amie benefits, like crit hits and holding on at 1HP where they don't happen all the time, so there would be an element of luck maybe whether your Pokemon mega evolved or not. Personally though I'd find that annoying.

Game Freak didn't create the concept of Mega Evolution only to scrap mega stones in a few gsmes. They better come with a better solution than this.

Well they literally changed the rules and history of mega evolution in the game directly after they were introduced so that doesn't hold water.

XY: Lucario was the first Mega Evolution
ORAS: No Rayquaza was

XY: The trainer must have a key stone and Mega evolve has to be selected
ORAS: For certain ones like Groudon and Kyogre, no key stone is necessary, mega evolution is automatic

XY: The Pokemon must hold a Mega Stone
ORAS: Rayquaza doesn't need to hold a mega stone.

Not to mention the anime has shown Mewtwo, Diancie, Kyogre, Groudon and Rayquaza all bending the rules.

I think Pokemon had this beautiful simplicity (at least on the surface). And I think this simplicity was intact until gen VI.

With Megas and Primals part of this simplicity was lost. But still, they are very cool additions, and I think the little overcomplication is worth it for such cool concepts (I am a fan of both).

Now, if they go on and keep introducing more and more new boosting mechanics, they could ruin the experience. I hope they don't do that, but I agree they probably will.

What I am suggesting is a simplification, instead of key stones, and 50+ mega stones you just need to bond with the pokemon through amie.

I think Megas and Primals mark a line, and I don't want to see it crossed, personally. I don't want this to end up being Dragon Ball.

Funny you should mention that I think they take a lot of inspiration from Dragon Ball, Kyurem needing to absorb Reshiram and Zekrom reminds me of Cell, as done Zygarde and all it's cells. Maybe even Swirlix and Slurpuff were based on equally pink Majin Buu and his love of sweets! (I'm part joking part serious. ) And my point on Mega/Synchro could be akin to fusion, where in Dragon Ball you initially needed the Potara ear rings, one for each person, and the transformation had draw backs like being permanent, and then it got replaced with the fusion dance which was the same but without the draw backs.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I am fine with just mega evolutions and primal reversions. Don't really need the games to be overloaded with new versions of alternate forms, megas etc. I expect to see some more mega evolutions in Z, especially for the gen 6 starters.