Generation VI: The Future

[Boss1708]

I never said that they were simplifying the plot. Just that the series in general has been simplified. 5th and 6th gen's simplification was mainly in terms of content and difficulty.

Also, XY did move more towards 1st and 2nd gen style plots with most of the adventure being a relatively simple plot, most of the lore and events don't really come until near the end of the game.



I'm going to have to side with the people saying that 1st and 2nd gen style plots are too boring, it makes the game feel more lifeless that way. Focusing on the badge quest doesn't really give you much leeway to explore the region's lore or characters because you're just going to the gyms, getting your badge, and moving on. Characters in those kinds of plots are glorified punching bags with no real depth or motivation, different areas are just waypoints on your way to the Pokemon League, and legendaries are just another item on the checklist that is the Pokedex. It just all feels so artificial and dull with that kind of approach.

I have to disagree... Saving the world every game is just too predictable now. They need to recycle the plot simplicity of Gen II for a game or two, otherwise the current SAVE THE WORLD!!! plot will go stale.

Also, Johto is full of lore and proves that lore can be introduced without the need of complex plot elements.

And realistically speaking, what is the probability of a menace occuring, and involving a new trainer that has just started his journey... FOR FIVE GAMES IN A ROW!?!? There has to be one PC that gets lucky enough to set off on a journey and finishing it safe...

New kid on the block saves the day is too OU now.

 

[godiego]

You can't have a group of villains that we aren't supposed to take seriously, then hit the player like a speeding truck with critical discussions about war, greed, and genocide.

see: camp? and also maybe irony? idk, maybe it's just me, but i always saw Team Flare as really campy and ironic.

 

[Zweilous]

I have to disagree... Saving the world every game is just too predictable now. They need to recycle the plot simplicity of Gen II for a game or two, otherwise the current SAVE THE WORLD!!! plot will go stale.

I don't think recycling the older plots would be any better then recycling the "save the world" plots. The thing with the "save the world" plots is that there the only place where GF typically deviates with their stories since they don't seem to want to move away from the same old "get 8 badges, go to league, win" pattern, whether out of habit or some other reason. So not having any sort of involved secondary plot and just focusing the majority of the time on the 8 badge quest I feel would be even less interesting since there's no other intrigue in the experience as you're just going through the motions like we've done since Gen 1. Having some sort of interesting secondary plot at least adds a new element that can be experienced and explored since they can be more varied with it and thus can play around with more ideas and plot elements then they could without it.

Granted, they could do more with their secondary plots, but I feel that it's better to have them then not to make the journey stand out more from the last.

Also, Johto is full of lore and proves that lore can be introduced without the need of complex plot elements.

It did have lore, but it was pretty barebones in a lot of areas such as with Lugia. I personally feel that Gen 3 was where they started to really expand on the lore and improve on what they built on, Gen 2 was more of getting the materials for the base that it could stand on.

 

[Boss1708]

I don't think recycling the older plots would be any better then recycling the "save the world" plots. The thing with the "save the world" plots is that there the only place where GF typically deviates with their stories since they don't seem to want to move away from the same old "get 8 badges, go to league, win" pattern, whether out of habit or some other reason. So not having any sort of involved secondary plot and just focusing the majority of the time on the 8 badge quest I feel would be even less interesting since there's no other intrigue in the experience as you're just going through the motions like we've done since Gen 1. Having some sort of interesting secondary plot at least adds a new element that can be experienced and explored since they can be more varied with it and thus can play around with more ideas and plot elements then they could without it.

Granted, they could do more with their secondary plots, but I feel that it's better to have them then not to make the journey stand out more from the last.



It did have lore, but it was pretty barebones in a lot of areas such as with Lugia. I personally feel that Gen 3 was where they started to really expand on the lore and improve on what they built on, Gen 2 was more of getting the materials for the base that it could stand on.

By recycling, I didn't mean re using, but just in spirit. It wouldn't be barebones, it could have other sub plots involving side missions, etc.

And yes, Gen III started the world menace trend, and they did very well. The thing is, 3 generations in a row have copied Gen III.

 

[BlackButterfree]

By recycling, I didn't mean re using, but just in spirit. It wouldn't be barebones, it could have other sub plots involving side missions, etc.

And yes, Gen III started the world menace trend, and they did very well. The thing is, 3 generations in a row have copied Gen III.

Actually, while you do have to save everyone from Hoenn to Kalos, the demographics are widely different. In Hoenn, it's never said that the world will end (only in OR/AS, I believe...) plus FR/LG Kanto (which takes place at the same time) NEVER mentions an ecological disaster the scope of Hoenn's, so safe to assume it's only the region that's in peril.

On the other extreme, in Sinnoh, Cyrus' goal is to wipe out EXISTENCE, not the planet. Much grander scale, if you ask me.

While Plasma only wanted to conquer/freeze Unova and rule it with an iron fist. No destruction there.

Kalos was the only true region that threatened the entire planet. And even then, in AZ's story, the Ultimate Weapon was used at full blast and still only devastated Kalos and that's it.

So we've never saved the world, just regions. And we saved the universe once.

 

[Desdar300]

I'm of the sound and mind that GF needs to expand on the games and not go back to their roots for the umpteenth time. Expand on the features don't do away with them, pull a Persona and give us social Links so that we the players can bond with other characters thus allowing the game to give them more depth, allow us to have choices that impact the story in big ways which thus grants the games more playability and grants it more life. What I'm grasping at is that GF should allow the series to grow and reach new heights and not keeping relying on their roots because they can't live in the past forever . The series still has a lot of potential along with growth, there's no reason to play it safe anymore.

 

[godiego]

Actually, while you do have to save everyone from Hoenn to Kalos, the demographics are widely different. In Hoenn, it's never said that the world will end (only in OR/AS, I believe...) plus FR/LG Kanto (which takes place at the same time) NEVER mentions an ecological disaster the scope of Hoenn's, so safe to assume it's only the region that's in peril.

it's said in both RSE and ORAS that the world will burn/drown should Groudon/Kyogre fail to be stopped. though i don't really think it takes a genius to figure out where the drought/storm was headed even if GameFreak had chosen more ambiguous wording. unless you're in the 'unless GameFreak says it overtly it didn't happen' camp. as for why it's not mentioned in Kanto/FRLG, that would be because the storm/drought radiated from the Cave of Life in Hoenn; that is, it never reached Kanto or anywhere outside of Hoenn.

so that's one 'saving the world.'

On the other extreme, in Sinnoh, Cyrus' goal is to wipe out EXISTENCE, not the planet. Much grander scale, if you ask me.

still saving the world though, and that makes two.

the other two are a big more nebulous. although Ghetsis doesn't really threaten Unova or the world with physical destruction, he does pose a threat to the social order (ie., humans' relationship with Pokemon). not every save the world story precludes apocalyptic, cataclysmic events. as for Team Flare, we never really know the full scope of the Ultimate Weapon. that being said, it does seem that it would trigger some substantial differences in the world even if the blast was largely focused in Kalos.

 

[Esserise]

The point A point B dumbing down in Unova and Kalos is due to the linear region layout. Nothing to do with the plot, which is fairly complex for Pokemon standards.

The two concepts are somewhat entangled, though. Unova has a linear layout partly because the story progresses in a specific order. It's set up to encourage you to continue from one point to the next to keep the plot chugging along. Kalos was a bit less of a straight line, but not by any significant margin.

Personally, I don't mind a linear region design too much, just as long as there are a lot of optional side-paths that I can come back to. Unova was pretty decent in this regard, but not Kalos.

 

[Mitchman]

I really think they can somehow pull off using Calem and Serena again. I know I know, they have full teams and already have their starters, but an X2Y2 can alliviate that issue. First off, the rival never beat the league. So, what if you play as the rival to the protag, meaning if you choose Calem, Serena became champipn and vice versa. Second, I support eavily the idea that Zygarde Core could be the starter. Its weak enough, and they can make it in game actually have moves, unlike the Anime. Third, they are still a Hero of Kalos. It would be amazing to see an established, actually recognized character be part of the group of people who investigate the going ons of Team Flare. The rival could be someone new in the meanwhile, with everyone but the protag having achieved anything.


Would be a cool twist.

The two concepts are somewhat entangled, though. Unova has a linear layout partly because the story progresses in a specific order. It's set up to encourage you to continue from one point to the next to keep the plot chugging along. Kalos was a bit less of a straight line, but not by any significant margin.

Personally, I don't mind a linear region design too much, just as long as there are a lot of optional side-paths that I can come back to. Unova was pretty decent in this regard, but not Kalos.

Kalos' issue in this regard is that the map layout is much akin to the Pre gen 5 style, but it taked its story beatd and progression from Unova. Unova was more linear, but the maps were much more dense and content rich then Kalos, which gives it a very unique feel, and one of the best senses of exploration. If you can't understand what I said, its simple. Univa linearity just doesn't jive with the map structuring of Gens 3 and 4,which were very simillar. If they had us take whatever route we want, and gave us some choice in the middle, like what Sinnoh and Kanto did, it would have been much better.
The previous games were linear as well, lets not kid ourselves. But freedom to explore was there. Even Unova had that, with almost every route or area having a small side path that you can explore and use to train. Kalos on the other hand, had nothing. The only optional route was when you beat Laverre City gym, and there was the two routes that shared the lost hotel, but that's really it. If we had tons of those moments, then Kalos would have been a lot better. But nope, its mostly a straight line.

 

[Lufenium]

It did have lore, but it was pretty barebones in a lot of areas such as with Lugia. I personally feel that Gen 3 was where they started to really expand on the lore and improve on what they built on, Gen 2 was more of getting the materials for the base that it could stand on.

I think that was very much part of the appeal for some people. It was minimal, and mysterious, and the player had to go out of their way to find these legendary Pokemon. Not meeting them in some crazy cosmic turn of events. I think it has that stronger feeling of exploration & adventure to it.

Speaking of Gen III, the way the Regi were handled in Hoenn was brilliant. The Braille puzzles were masterfully done, imo.

 

[!Z!]

I really like the idea of starting with a Zygarde Core. Not sure how they could work it out, but would be interesting if we get a pick, or maybe it's random and we can reset.

 

[Boss1708]

I think that was very much part of the appeal for some people. It was minimal, and mysterious, and the player had to go out of their way to find these legendary Pokemon. Not meeting them in some crazy cosmic turn of events. I think it has that stronger feeling of exploration & adventure to it.

Speaking of Gen III, the way the Regi were handled in Hoenn was brilliant. The Braille puzzles were masterfully done, imo.

I agree. It was a fantastic move to make the legendaries plot centric in RSE/ORAS, and it's my favourite story (and region, and games as a whole).

But the other generations keep reusing it to the point of making Legendary Pokemon feel common.

In RS/E/ORAS it is unexpected and awesome. In the following generations it's like "oh yeah, an other legendary".

Actually, while you do have to save everyone from Hoenn to Kalos, the demographics are widely different. In Hoenn, it's never said that the world will end (only in OR/AS, I believe...) plus FR/LG Kanto (which takes place at the same time) NEVER mentions an ecological disaster the scope of Hoenn's, so safe to assume it's only the region that's in peril.

On the other extreme, in Sinnoh, Cyrus' goal is to wipe out EXISTENCE, not the planet. Much grander scale, if you ask me.

While Plasma only wanted to conquer/freeze Unova and rule it with an iron fist. No destruction there.

Kalos was the only true region that threatened the entire planet. And even then, in AZ's story, the Ultimate Weapon was used at full blast and still only devastated Kalos and that's it.

So we've never saved the world, just regions. And we saved the universe once.

I know what you mean, but personally I think RS/E/ORAS did it the best way, and every generation has been copying Gen III's structure ever since.

If the next region copied it too, it would be a bit too predictable imo.

 

[Lufenium]

I highly doubt we'd see a Core as a starter.

I can imagine a scenario where the player receives their starter as per normal, but gets the Core early in game, like we did in X/Y with the Kanto starter.

That said, Cores are officially stated (and shown) to be unable to use moves on their own, so...I'm not sure how that'd work out.

Ievery generation has been copying Gen III's structure ever since.

If the next region copied it too, it would be a bit too predictable imo.

That isn't surprising given that R/S was the series' hard reset. And it's been fairly predictable since Gen IV, really. Bless B2w2 shaking things up the way they did.

 

[Esserise]

That said, Cores are officially stated (and shown) to be unable to use moves on their own, so...I'm not sure how that'd work out.

I guess it would either be a key item, or it would be like an Egg and you could store it in the PC and then be prompted to withdraw it at relevant points in the story (like how BW and XY stop and ask if you want to retrieve Reshiram/Zekrom and Xerneas/Yveltal from the PC if you already have six Pokémon on your team).

Of course, this is purely hypothetical. I would never expect them to actually do something like this.

 

[BlackButterfree]

I know what you mean, but personally I think RS/E/ORAS did it the best way, and every generation has been copying Gen III's structure ever since.

You're just saying that because you stan for Generation 3 harder than I stan for Britney Spears. In my opinion, Sinnoh did the save the world thing best in their original Generation, specifically in Platinum. Hoenn did step it up in Generation 6, but only with the Delta episode.

 

[Boss1708]

You're just saying that because you stan for Generation 3 harder than I stan for Britney Spears. In my opinion, Sinnoh did the save the world thing best in their original Generation, specifically in Platinum. Hoenn did step it up in Generation 6, but only with the Delta episode.

I am just saying that because it is the chronological order... The first time is always fresher and original, it's an objective fact. (regardless of me being a fanboy)

But yeah, if the Hoenn plot was set in a different region, I probably wouldn't appreciate it that much, I agree. But that's the reason I said "in my opinion".

 

[BlackButterfree]

I am just saying that because it is the chronological order... The first time is always fresher.

But yeah, if the Hoenn plot was set in a different region, I probably wouldn't appreciate it that much.

First time isn't always the best time. Take smoking, or drinking, or sex, or working out as just a few examples.

 

[Boss1708]

First time isn't always the best time. Take smoking, or drinking, or sex, or working out as just a few examples.

You have a point XD But those examples are different.

My point is that nobody cares who was the second person to discover something. The first one is always considered the real inventor.

But again, it's about opinion. I guess I don't like the Hoenn plot more because it was the first one, but because it's the best one imo.

 

[!Z!]

Yeah I've long believed the Cores would be treated like eggs, but I hope we get one really early on, like the Togepi egg in Johto games

 

[NinjutsuSen]

Also, XY did move more towards 1st and 2nd gen style plots with most of the adventure being a relatively simple plot, most of the lore and events don't really come until near the end of the game.

Then you have played a different game. The events of the game are as common as Gen 3. Goal related things it started earlier than Gen 4, which started with the build up for the climax right after gym 6.
The story was also more deep than Gen 1 and 2, since the flare gang only excist because Lysander wanted a "more beautiful world", similiar reasons for Cyrus. The things that are not good about the story was the storytelling. Before Lysandre started his plan, he had Sycamore as his friend and there was probably a conversation about how "beautiful" the world really is hinted after the climax.
Also some events builded up for the climax. Invading the power plant for stealing electricity for the ultimate weapon and for the new world as an example.

I never said that they were simplifying the plot. Just that the series in general has been simplified. 5th and 6th gen's simplification was mainly in terms of content and difficulty.

What? Content varies each generation 2 and BW2 have the most content, Gen 4 in more than Gen 3 and Gen 6 more than 1 and 3. Difficulty in BW2 was also one, if not the highest in the franchise, while Gen 6 is the second easiert after Gen 2.

You can't say that after Gen 4, the difficult and content got simplified.