• Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.
  • Pronoun field selections have been updated! To ensure they show up correctly, please reselect your preferred option(s) in the Account details page. Click here for more information.

Gold and Silver DS: Discussion, Debate, Wishlists

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shiron

New Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
143
Reaction score
0
DorianBlack said:
I speculated a little earlier, though, that they might be changing around the story a little bit so that it makes sense - you have to admit, it's really puzzling in the first two generations that the professors would just randomly give you a rare Pokémon and send you on your way with very few, if any, guidelines. Hell, if Mr. Pokémon hadn't emailed Elm before you left the lab, he would have basically just been "Hi, here's a Pokémon to keep, go wander off somewhere now".

I think they're going to change it so that he loans it to yo/sends it along with you to protect you, because of the Mr. Pokémon email, rather than the email coming after you get the Pokémon. And then, when you get back, he'll see that you've gotten closer to the Pokémon, and will then give you it and its PokéBall.
Possible, but that just seems like it's just teasing the fanbase with "what could have been" ("we could have had your starter follow you all throughout your adventure, but decided to just cut it short and force it back into the ball after you give Prof. Elm an egg"). Since this is a game targeted primarily at young-kids, I don't think they'd do that.

And really, it wouldn't make any sense for a professor to give you a Pokemon without its Pokeball. "Hey, take this Pokemon to protect you. But I'm going to keep its Pokeball. If things are looking bad though, and you need to run away and withdraw it from keeping it from being severely hurt, tough luck, it's gonna die." Yeah... no.
 

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
I don't think so. I think they're just taking the Amity Square concept and letting you do it everywhere, although I'm not sure to what extent. Platinum adding in overworld sprites for all 9 forms of the starters would seem to indicate that at least you'd be able to keep your starter out even after evolution.

I'm pretty certain that for the very bare minimum of the feature, Chikorita, Bayleef, Meganium, Totodile, Croconaw, Feraligatr, Cyndaquil, Quilava, Typhlosion, and Pikachu will be able to be let out of their balls.

If they included the Amity Square Pokemon, that'd add Clefairy, Jigglypuff, Psyduck, Shroomish, Skitty, Turtwig, Grotle, Torterra, Chimchar, Monferno, Infernape, Piplup, Prinplup, Empoleon, Happinny, Pachirisu, Buneary, and Drifloon. That's 28 Pokemon. If they wanted to add Togepi and Pichu (since they're big Gen II mascots) that'd make 30.

If they did it all the way, they could give us 493.

Presumably this feature would have some minor gameplay applications - keep your Pokemon's happiness up high and they'll fetch rare items.

Again, they can't do it with all Pokémon (how would you do it with Wailord? Onix? Dialga?), and I doubt they'd implement the item-finding feature, though I could see them altering Pickup to find different items. And it would make no sense at all to only let a certain list of Pokémon walk around in an unregulated overworld area - why would a trainer let their Psyduck walk around with them, but not their Poliwag? (Not to mention that most of that list won't even be available in HGSS, being Sinnoh-native.)
 

VeggiePopper

Doc Octillery FTW
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
4,492
Reaction score
0
Again that would only work if you couldn't see the stats of said starter. Because you basically were loaned your Pokemon in Diamond and Pearl because Rowan didn't give it to you yet. But once you looked at the stats, you were automatically the OT, so it doesn't really make sense.

They could keep the OT as (???) but then I don't think you would be able to battle with the Pokemon (like you can't use Riley/Marley/Cheryl's Pokemon in D/P/P). At most you could probably just heal it but the Pokemon itself would just battle on it's own. Of course they could create a special path you can take to Mr. Pokemon without Grass. But then they'd probably have to move Mr. Pokemon's house in a special enclosed area, which could only be accessed by taking the special route with no grass.

It doesn't make any sense. If you're gonna travel through a path with no grass, and so, no wild Pokémon, why would you need a protective Pokémon?
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
4,831
Reaction score
372
Actually, that's EXACTLY the way it happens in the original GS: Elm receives the e-mail first, so he calls you to do the errand for him and for the puropose he loans you the Pokémon for protection, then lets you keep it because Oak gave you a Pokédex. So, if Mr. Pokémon hadn't emailed Elm, he wouldn't have called Gold/Kris nor given them a Pokémon. So your memory is failing a bit I think.

But as I said, you're the OT once you get the Pokemon so again there is no test for ownership. It's just like all games, they have some errand you have to do. The only thing that you would "earn" ownership over is a Pokedex and some Poke balls. But the Pokemon is yours from the get-go. The only possible example of being loaned a Pokemon is Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, but in that case once you choose the Pokemon you really can't do anything (wild Pokemon) wise until he actually let's you keep it for doing so well, so ultimately the 3rd gen example is moot.

It doesn't make any sense. If you're gonna travel through a path with no grass, and so, no wild Pokémon, why would you need a protective Pokémon?

They could easily have some storyline about how Elm is like:

Elm: Uh-oh one of these Poke balls moved, do you know which one it is?
*Player Chooses Starter*
Elm- Oh so it was Chikorita? I guess Chikorita wants to go for a walk. Oh right, which reminds me, I'd like you to go see a colleague of mine, Mr. Pokemon, he has something important that he'd like me to see. So why don't you take Chikorita along with you so it can get some exercise.

*Later*

Elm: Thank you for bringing me this egg...Oh how cute it looks like that Chikorita has grown attached to you. How about this as thanks for retrieving this Pokemon egg, why don't you keep that Chikorita. No, no it's quite all right, I'm sure Chikorita will grow better with you then it would be staying here. Likewise would you like this Totodile as well.
*Player Says yes*
Elm: Ha ha, I was joking, don't be greedy now.

Okay I was joking about the Totodile part but it could be like that.
 
Last edited:

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
Possible, but that just seems like it's just teasing the fanbase with "what could have been" ("we could have had your starter follow you all throughout your adventure, but decided to just cut it short and force it back into the ball after you give Prof. Elm an egg"). Since this is a game targeted primarily at young-kids, I don't think they'd do that.

And really, it wouldn't make any sense for a professor to give you a Pokemon without its Pokeball. "Hey, take this Pokemon to protect you. But I'm going to keep its Pokeball. If things are looking bad though, and you need to run away and withdraw it from keeping it from being severely hurt, tough luck, it's gonna die." Yeah... no.

Considering that we're talking about a world where 10-year-olds routinely go out on continent-spanning adventures with dangerous creatures and fight villainous (if incompetent) organization s all on their own, it really doesn't seem all that far-fetched. XD
 

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
But as I said, you're the OT once you get the Pokemon so again there is no test for ownership. It's just like all games, they have some errand you have to do. The only thing that you would "earn" ownership over is a Pokedex and some Poke balls. But the Pokemon is yours from the get-go. The only possible example of being loaned a Pokemon is Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, but in that case once you choose the Pokemon you really can't do anything (wild Pokemon) wise until he actually let's you keep it for doing so well, so ultimately the 3rd gen example is moot.

And who says that they couldn't change the OT status for this game? Who says you'd even have to have access to the "Pokémon" menu where you could check such things? It could just be following you, letting you battle with it, and healing itself after every battle. Weirder things have happened, and I'm just throwing out ideas. *shrug*
 

VeggiePopper

Doc Octillery FTW
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
4,492
Reaction score
0
But as I said, you're the OT once you get the Pokemon so again there is no test for ownership. It's just like all games, they have some errand you have to do. The only thing that you would "earn" ownership over is a Pokedex and some Poke balls. But the Pokemon is yours from the get-go. The only possible example of being loaned a Pokemon is Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, but in that case once you choose the Pokemon you really can't do anything (wild Pokemon) wise until he actually let's you keep it for doing so well, so ultimately the 3rd gen example is moot.

But in Generation IV that's not the case either: in the original DP you pick your Pokémon from the suitcase and after the wild Starly battle you still have to cross Route 201 (with some wild battles in the meanwhile) before getting to Rowan's lab in Sandgem and he gives you a Pokédex and ownership of the Pokémon, and since the start you are the OT.


They could easily have some storyline about how Elm is like:

Elm: Uh-oh one of these Poke balls moved, do you know which one it is?
*Player Chooses Starter*
Elm- Oh so it was Chikorita? I guess Chikorita wants to go for a walk. Oh right, which reminds me, I'd like you to go see a colleague of mine, Mr. Pokemon, he has something important that he'd like me to see. So why don't you take Chikorita along with you so it can get some exercise.

*Later*

Elm: Thank you for bringing me this egg...Oh how cute it looks like that Chikorita has grown attached to you. How about this as thanks for retrieving this Pokemon egg, why don't you keep that Chikorita. No, no it's quite all right, I'm sure Chikorita will grow better with you then it would be staying here. Likewise would you like this Totodile as well.
*Player Says yes*
Elm: Ha ha, I was joking, don't be greedy now.

Okay I was joking about the Totodile part but it could be like that.


Don't be offended but that's too stupid even for Pokémon's childish standards:
1. "Take this Pokémon for exercise" is a really, really bad excuse for giving you a Pokémon. Period. Specially when your original motive for your plot changes is that you feel the original start of the game a bad one.

2. I don't think Elm would be that happy after one of his Pokémon was stolen.
 
Last edited:

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
Actually, that's EXACTLY the way it happens in the original GS: Elm receives the e-mail first, so he calls you to do the errand for him and for the puropose he loans you the Pokémon for protection, then lets you keep it because Oak gave you a Pokédex. So, if Mr. Pokémon hadn't emailed Elm, he wouldn't have called Gold/Kris nor given them a Pokémon. So your memory is failing a bit I think.

Hmm, I could've sworn that the email came after. I'm gonna check my game and see.

EDIT: Indeed, you're right, I'd got it mixed up. Still, my theory on lending you the Pokémon rather than outright giving it to you at first could still happen - it didn't depend on the original game working the way I thought it did.

But in Generation IV that's not the case either: in the original DP you pick your Pokémon from the suitcase and after the wild Starly battle you still have to cross Route 201 (with some wild battles in the meanwhile) before getting to Rowan's lab in Sandgem and he gives you a Pokédex and ownership of the Pokémon, and since the start you are the OT.

And the plots of previous games necessarily dictate the plot of these new games how, exactly?
Remember, we've been told we're going to see game mechanics we've never seen before - maybe borrowed Pokémon are part of that.
 
Last edited:

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
4,831
Reaction score
372
ownership of the Pokémon, and since the start you are the OT.

Isn't that a contradiction? You can't be the original trainer crossing Route 201 if you are giving ownership of the Pokemon later.

Otherwise I'm confused to what you meant.

Remember, we've been told we're going to see game mechanics we've never seen before - maybe borrowed Pokémon are part of that.
Like the Spearow with mail attached in the original GSC games?
 

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
So Veggietable, I checked my games, and while you're right about Gold and Silver, in Crystal, Elm asks you to take the Pokémon before he gets the email - that's what I was thinking of.
 

VeggiePopper

Doc Octillery FTW
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
4,492
Reaction score
0
Isn't that a contradiction? You can't be the original trainer crossing Route 201 if you are giving ownership of the Pokemon later.

Otherwise I'm confused to what you meant.

I meant that even you are lent the Pokémon, the game recognizes it as yours from the start, when you said that it was not the case in recent generations.


@Dorian Black: but since this is a Gold and Silver remake, I think they'll stick to the original GS start, whicj as you pointed, is much more cohesive that the Crystal one =) I didn't know about Crystal, never played it though.
 

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
Like the Spearow with mail attached in the original GSC games?

Potentially, yeah - except these borrowed Pokémon could follow you around, maybe as a way to make sure you actually return them to where they need to go (I remember you could just keep the Spearow if you wanted). You'd probably be able to use them in battle and look at their stats, too, because the OT problem wouldn't exist with Pokémon you eventually return.

And actually, there's no reason you couldn't look at you first Pokémon's stats and see "Elm" for the OT if does end up being burrowed. And then after you run your errand, Elm could transfer OT status to you. It's not like we actually know how the whole OT thing works within the context of the games' world, so there could be a way to change it under special circumstances.
 

Zeta

Bulbapædist
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
7,789
Reaction score
715
And it would make no sense at all to only let a certain list of Pokémon walk around in an unregulated overworld area - why would a trainer let their Psyduck walk around with them, but not their Poliwag? (Not to mention that most of that list won't even be available in HGSS, being Sinnoh-native.)

A) They did it in Yellow.
B) Why would a park allow you to walk around with only 20 species of Pokemon?
 

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
I meant that even you are lent the Pokémon, the game recognizes it as yours from the start, when you said that it was not the case in recent generations.


@Dorian Black: but since this is a Gold and Silver remake, I think they'll stick to the original GS start, whicj as you pointed, is much more cohesive that the Crystal one =) I didn't know about Crystal, never played it though.

No, I think they're going to add in storyline elements from Crystal - not the ones involving Suicune, but ones that were general improvements over the originals. People have already cited FRLG not following Yellow at all as precedent for ignoring Crystal in HGSS, but they forget that Yellow isn't the true third game in Gen. I. I don't know how the plot of the original Japanese Blue differed from the Japanese Red and Green, but I'm willing to bet FRLG followed Blue where its story was better.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
4,831
Reaction score
372
1. "Take this Pokémon for exercise" is a really, really bad excuse for giving you a Pokémon. Period. Specially when your original motive for your plot changes is that you feel the original start of the game a bad one.

2. I don't think Elm would be that happy after one of his Pokémon was stolen.

1. As stupid as Chikorita dancing in place like shown in the preview. And why is it a bad excuse? I mean what are the Pokemon doing sitting on table inside their Poke balls maybe just because the player exudes battling "aura" is enough to make the Pokemon antsy (so that Elm doesn't know Chikorita wants to go with you and exercise was the only thing Elm thought of). And again this only an argument against the OT thing. A Pokemon following you, not battling, or not seeing it's stats are the only way the OT couldn't be yours from the get go. Besides I'm not arguing that he'd give you "Chikorita" because you gave it exercise but because it bonded with you. Honestly how is the worse than basically stealing a Pokemon (DP) and have Rowan not give a rat's ass other than it being happy and needs to go with you. Different start same end result. And every game I know mentions that the Pokemon bonds with you after the "errand" you usually do, so really I don't see what's so wrong with my idea.

2. Dude, some people say that seeing your Pokemon happy causes their hearts to melt. I'm sure a "happy" Chikorita would make Elm happier enough to joke around. Or if not joking he could just Bawl his eyes out and orders you to leave the lab.

I meant that even you are lent the Pokémon, the game recognizes it as yours from the start, when you said that it was not the case in recent generations
I really don't think I was arguing that, I think you misunderstood me or something. I think I always said the Pokemon is yours from the get go. I only said Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald because you really don't have the option to battle it with other wild than the Poochyena/Zigzagoon. And you are automatically transported to Birch's lab before you can travel with said chosen Pokemon. so that's makes the lending issue moot, because Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald is the only versions where you technically are lent Pokemon to protect Birch but he gives it to you before you can travel with the Pokemon to see Brendan or May north of Odale Town before you get the Pokedex. I honestly don't know how 4th gen came into the argument when I was talking about the 3rd gen.

Potentially, yeah - except these borrowed Pokémon could follow you around, maybe as a way to make sure you actually return them to where they need to go (I remember you could just keep the Spearow if you wanted). You'd probably be able to use them in battle and look at their stats, too, because the OT problem wouldn't exist with Pokémon you eventually return.
Which again would spawn the whole argument about the special route to Mr. Pokemon and if there was grass/wild Pokemon you couldn't use Chikorita as you would your own.

And actually, there's no reason you couldn't look at you first Pokémon's stats and see "Elm" for the OT if does end up being burrowed. And then after you run your errand, Elm could transfer OT status to you. It's not like we actually know how the whole OT thing works within the context of the games' world, so there could be a way to change it under special circumstances.
If the OT can't change when you trade a Pokemon or something like that Duking in XD Gale of darkness/Coliseum where some Pokemon could be traded for others, I don't see how "Elm" would change to "Player" since Elm and "Player" would have different ID numbers. Also even None Wifi, non catchable event Pokemon don't originally belong to you even if technically you are it's first trainer. Think when Silver stole that dude's Sneasel, he was going to give you Shuckle so Silver wouldn't come back, wasn't he the OT for that Pokemon.

The only Pokemon I can think of that didn't belong to you in the first place but was given to you and plausibly changing the ID number was (Lapras) from the old games. Maybe Castform from the 3rd gen game count as well. But if the OT is Elm, it's highly unlikely to change.
 
Last edited:

VeggiePopper

Doc Octillery FTW
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
4,492
Reaction score
0
Potentially, yeah - except these borrowed Pokémon could follow you around, maybe as a way to make sure you actually return them to where they need to go (I remember you could just keep the Spearow if you wanted). You'd probably be able to use them in battle and look at their stats, too, because the OT problem wouldn't exist with Pokémon you eventually return.

And actually, there's no reason you couldn't look at you first Pokémon's stats and see "Elm" for the OT if does end up being burrowed. And then after you run your errand, Elm could transfer OT status to you. It's not like we actually know how the whole OT thing works within the context of the games' world, so there could be a way to change it under special circumstances.

Well, actually at the start of Red and Blue, Oak claims the Pokémon on his desk are his, which means he was their OT but transfered the status to the player and rival, so yes, it's been proved the OT can be changed undes special circumstances as you just said (at least in the context of the game sworld, which is what you asked. Gameplay-wise that has never happened) =D


No, I think they're going to add in storyline elements from Crystal - not the ones involving Suicune, but ones that were general improvements over the originals. People have already cited FRLG not following Yellow at all as precedent for ignoring Crystal in HGSS, but they forget that Yellow isn't the true third game in Gen. I. I don't know how the plot of the original Japanese Blue differed from the Japanese Red and Green, but I'm willing to bet FRLG followed Blue where its story was better.

I said "stick to the original GS start" because it's more logic than Crystal's start, of course I support the idea of keeping Crystal's plot details that improve the original story =)
 

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
A) They did it in Yellow.
B) Why would a park allow you to walk around with only 20 species of Pokemon?

A) That was an idiosyncrasy of the Pikachu, though, not a choice by the trainer. If the trainer is willing to let their Pokémon out of their balls to walk with the trainer, why would they be allowed to do so with some but not others?

B) Amity Park is presented as a privately-owned, regulated area - you're in there, you follow the rules, and the rules stipulate certain Pokémon. But I highly doubt there's a New Bark Town Homeowner's Association that would stipulate what Pokémon you can and can't have trailing behind you at any given time in a public space. Species limits based on anything but size wouldn't make any sense at all.
 

VeggiePopper

Doc Octillery FTW
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
4,492
Reaction score
0
@ dman_dustin: Yes, I missundertood you. Sorry for that =(

Still, I think the "exercise Pokémon" as a reason for giving you a Pokémon is bad as a cold =O but that's just my personal opinion.
 

KedaseDerragar

returns!
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
1,539
Reaction score
0
I said "stick to the original GS start" because it's more logic than Crystal's start, of course I support the idea of keeping Crystal's plot details that improve the original story =)

Well, Crystal's wasn't as nonsensical as I'd originally thought - Elm said he wanted you to do it for research purposes. A little flimsy, yes, but no worse of a base to work from than Gold and Silver's. :) I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

And also, anyone else realize what gigantic nerds we are for having this full-blown debate over stuff we've extrapolated from 30 seconds of footage of the character just walking around? XD Arceus help us all when they start releasing trailers with actual substance.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom