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Gold and Silver DS: Discussion, Debate, Wishlists

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dman_dustin

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You're complaining about the aesthetics of the Global Terminal of all things? That's like complaining about two grocery stores of the same name. They have better things to develop than something that's already WELL-MADE.

Both Wal-marts in my city are entirely different, they may be the same store but they aren't exactly the same in appearance.

Why would the Johto's GTS look exactly the same as Sinnoh's?

And even if it is well-made, that doesn't mean they can't make the GTS a little more unique to the region.
 

Falconwing

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If you're going into the GTS to look at the design, you have a problem.
 

ANinyMouse

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You can partner up in the tower like D/P

That would make sense

Vaporeon - HP
Jolteon - Speed
Flareon - Attack
Espeon - Sp. Attack
Umbreon - Defenses

Their second Pokemon can just represent their stat.

If we have new Frontier Brains then I'll be fine, if they use the same ones I'll be more pissed.
I just thought of something.

You know how you battle alongside Buck, Mira, Cheryl, Riley & Marley in DPPt, right? Well, if GF was that concerned with keeping the battle frontiers identical for the Vs Recorder's sake, all five of those trainers would have to return as well.

If the Kimono Girls are your partners in the Tower in HG/SS, then you can expect new Brains as well.

Of course, I haven't proven which way it will turn out, but if you think about it this way, at least you might have a better idea of what to look for in order to finally discern the true answer to the Frontier dilemma.


You see, the biggest question here is: "Is Platinum compatible with the same servers/game engine that will be needed to send and receive Vs Recorder battles from HG/SS?" If they use different servers for each game, or if they have built in a "flash memory" or "patchable" area in relation to where Vs Recorder battles are saved and played through the game's engine, then battling alongside the Kinono Girls (or anyone new, really), as well as new Brains, are entirely possible.

If they're trying to use the Platinum Vs Recorder servers in HG/SS, and that's the only reason, then everything will likely be exactly the same, and we will most likely be given a lame in-game excuse, if anything at all, to explain why Palmer and Cheryl are in Johto.

The third option? This is the one I like the most. HG/SS's Vs Recorder is totally incompatible with Platinum's videos, and vice-versa. This allows them to do whatever they want, and likely places the reason for the identical battling facilities on time constraints. After all, it's much easier to keep a similar overworld map and game mechanics and to only have to draw a few new sprites and write some new dialogue... especially if you consider that many Pokemon in the "pool" will need new movesets, due to moveset changes in HG/SS.
 
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Falconwing

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I just thought of something.

You know how you battle alongside Buck, Mira, Cheryl, Riley & Marley in DPPt, right? Well, if GF was that concerned with keeping the battle frontiers identical for the Vs Recorder's sake, all five of those trainers would have to return as well.

If the Kimono Girls are your partners in the Tower in HG/SS, then you can expect new Brains as well.

Of course, I haven't proven which way it will turn out, but if you think about it this way, at least you might have a better idea of what to look for in order to finally discern the true answer to the Frontier dilemma.

You have a very good point. So, even more evidence that these places are different.
 

dman_dustin

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Fine, **** it I don't care.
******************************
It would be cool at least if the TM's won in the Battle Frontier were at least different than the ones in Diamond and Pearl.
 

ANinyMouse

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Fine, **** it I don't care.
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It would be cool at least if the TM's won in the Battle Frontier were at least different than the ones in Diamond and Pearl.
They most likely will have some differences.

I'm not sure they'll let you buy multiples of TMs that the leaders hand out, like Attract, Shadow Ball & Dragon Pulse. I imagine that there'll be a slight chance for the SINNOH gym leader TMs to be up for purchase, however, as a means of balancing it out.

I can't count the number of times I've needed more Stealth Rock or Grass Knot TMs, so I hope this is true...
 

Hoang

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I just thought of something.

You know how you battle alongside Buck, Mira, Cheryl, Riley & Marley in DPPt, right? Well, if GF was that concerned with keeping the battle frontiers identical for the Vs Recorder's sake, all five of those trainers would have to return as well.

If the Kimono Girls are your partners in the Tower in HG/SS, then you can expect new Brains as well.

Of course, I haven't proven which way it will turn out, but if you think about it this way, at least you might have a better idea of what to look for in order to finally discern the true answer to the Frontier dilemma.


You see, the biggest question here is: "Is Platinum compatible with the same servers/game engine that will be needed to send and receive Vs Recorder battles from HG/SS?" If they use different servers for each game, or if they have built in a "flash memory" or "patchable" area in relation to where Vs Recorder battles are saved and played through the game's engine, then battling alongside the Kinono Girls (or anyone new, really), as well as new Brains, are entirely possible.

If they're trying to use the Platinum Vs Recorder servers in HG/SS, and that's the only reason, then everything will likely be exactly the same, and we will most likely be given a lame in-game excuse, if anything at all, to explain why Palmer and Cheryl are in Johto.

The third option? This is the one I like the most. HG/SS's Vs Recorder is totally incompatible with Platinum's videos, and vice-versa. This allows them to do whatever they want, and likely places the reason for the identical battling facilities on time constraints. After all, it's much easier to keep a similar overworld map and game mechanics and to only have to draw a few new sprites and write some new dialogue... especially if you consider that many Pokemon in the "pool" will need new movesets, due to moveset changes in HG/SS.

That's a sharp observation. I didn't really expect any reappearences from Riley or anyone else. It would be interesting, to say the very least, if they were in Johto. But I just expect the Kimono girls will be replaced with placeholders if they participate in battle. So, new servers or not? That's something only Gamefreak knows, I guess.
 

dman_dustin

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I can't count the number of times I've needed more Stealth Rock or Grass Knot TMs, so I hope this is true...

I agree there are a lot of good TMs out there, and it's disappointing that some TM's are one per game. I suppose you could just buy a cheap cartridge and keep resetting, but that would take awhile.

Edit: Thinking of TM's makes me think of Move tutors, in Platinum move tutors cost shards, so what will it be this time? If its shards again they may as well just bring back the underground. Of course if there was some minigame where you win one of each shard that would be okay.

Maybe the bug catching contest?
 
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ANinyMouse

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I agree there are a lot of good TMs out there, and it's disappointing that some TM's are one per game. I suppose you could just buy a cheap cartridge and keep resetting, but that would take awhile.

Edit: Thinking of TM's makes me think of Move tutors, in Platinum move tutors cost shards, so what will it be this time? If its shards again they may as well just bring back the underground. Of course if there was some minigame where you win one of each shard that would be okay.

Maybe the bug catching contest?
Pretty sure there was a screenshot showing that at least 2 of the move tutors in HG/SS will accept BP as payment, ala Emerald :[
 

Falconwing

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Great, now I HAVE to go to the frontier to get my team the way I want.
 

Mr. Pokemon

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I think its funny that even with the Apricorn and NE Pichu, that they are bothering to make HGSS and Platinum compatible through WiFi and BF. Because I saw the HGSS WiFi Plaza and the GTS and they look identical to the ones in platinum with maybe a few exceptions here and there (Such as Sprites).
If you are worrying about Apricorns and NEP, and it's supposed incompatibility with the Platinum... then I have two easy solutions for you. First, the Apricorns. Since Platinum doesn't have Apricorns (or the Balls made from them for that matter), then the Pokemon caught in them will appear to be caught in PokeBalls when battled or traded with Platinum (or DP.) As for the NEP, if you use it in a battle with Platinum, or DP, then it would appear as a regular Pichu.

Sorry if this wasn't the point you were trying to make. I'm up late so I can't think straight.
 

VeggiePopper

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this facility is in Johto. So no boat.

I think it was previously speculated that the Tower might be in Route 40 as it was in Crystal, with the rest of the Frontier having its own, separate location, and, though I didn't support that view totally, it received some support here. So, assuming they go this way, it would be possible that then you could actually take a boat to Sinnoh's Battle Island and have the BF there. Not that I believe or support this, only saying that it could be possible and trying to add something to your point.

On the other side, I actually agree with you: it could be that they have the same facilities but different Brains (after all, all regions have an ELITE FOUR, but the actual Elite trainers are different, so this might be the case).

PS: I thought those fights were restricted to the Soul/Kris thread. Why do we have to have them here again?
 

Maxim Posthumus

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If you are worrying about Apricorns and NEP, and it's supposed incompatibility with the Platinum... then I have two easy solutions for you. First, the Apricorns. Since Platinum doesn't have Apricorns (or the Balls made from them for that matter), then the Pokemon caught in them will appear to be caught in PokeBalls when battled or traded with Platinum (or DP.) As for the NEP, if you use it in a battle with Platinum, or DP, then it would appear as a regular Pichu.

Sorry if this wasn't the point you were trying to make. I'm up late so I can't think straight.

NEP is confirmed to be untradeable.

Apricorns aren't in-bag items. They're stored in Apricorn Case, hence untradeable.

The real problem are the Balls.

But I think there's really no reason to bitch about connectivity. I think that having limited connectivity is much better than axing things because of it.

Since Kurt's Balls are included, I'm not afraid about Slowpoketail, Ragecandybar and Berserk Gene anymore. The connectivity is already limited, so they wouldn't be much more of a problem.

Because of that, I find it really stupid to ruin the game's BF just because of stupid VS Recorder connectivity.

And I rethought how stupid those VS Recorder theories are. Even if the Brains are the same, there is still the Player Backsprite, which is NOT in Platinum Data!
 

Falconwing

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I think it was previously speculated that the Tower might be in Route 40 as it was in Crystal, with the rest of the Frontier having its own, separate location, and, though I didn't support that view totally, it received some support here. So, assuming they go this way, it would be possible that then you could actually take a boat to Sinnoh's Battle Island and have the BF there. Not that I believe or support this, only saying that it could be possible and trying to add something to your point.

On the other side, I actually agree with you: it could be that they have the same facilities but different Brains (after all, all regions have an ELITE FOUR, but the actual Elite trainers are different, so this might be the case).

PS: I thought those fights were restricted to the Soul/Kris thread. Why do we have to have them here again?

Veggie, it's CONFIRMED that it's right where it was in Crystal.

As for the fights... who knows.
 

Silktree

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For the record, I suggested that Platinum's facilities have been retained not so much for the Vs Recorder, as for allowing HGSS and Platinum players to engage in tag battles together (be it through local wireless or Wi-Fi communication). Considering that the source of the Battle Hall screenshot actually focuses on Wi-Fi communication, this explanation seems rather obvious to me.

The above doesn't excuse the lack of one or two new facilities in addition to Platinum's (the official web site states that there are only five facilities), but it is possible that the effort has instead been put into a Kanto-based facility (possibly the Trainer House) with random Wi-Fi battles.

ANinyMouse said:
The third option? This is the one I like the most. HG/SS's Vs Recorder is totally incompatible with Platinum's videos, and vice-versa. This allows them to do whatever they want,
Using the same server for the Vs Recorder isn't a problem in this context: The interchangeability of the player sprites can be extended to Frontier Brains and other trainer classes. But your suggestion would be useful in certain other cases, which you and I have discussed before.

In fact, does anyone here have enough experience with the Battle Tower's Wi-Fi mode? If so, does the one in Diamond and Pearl support data for Platinum teams, which is to say that it uses the same server as Platinum's? Of course, this is a little hard to detect since Pokémon with Platinum-exclusive moves can be traded to a Diamond or Pearl game and then have their data uploaded, but someone with enough playing time should be able to assess how frequently seen those Pokémon are in the DP Battle Tower.

Similarly, what happens when a DP player and a Platinum player enter the Battle Tower's Multi-Battle mode (via local wireless)? Is the data for the opposing Pokémon generated from the DP or Platinum game?
 
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Maxim Posthumus

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For the record, I suggested that Platinum's facilities have been retained not so much for the Vs Recorder, as for allowing HGSS and Platinum players to engage in tag battles together (be it through local wireless or Wi-Fi communication). Considering that the source of the Battle Hall screenshot actually focuses on Wi-Fi communication, this explanation seems rather obvious to me.

That's exactly what I thought about now.

Also, Wi-Fi Battles connectivity doesn't require same Brains, as double battles don't include Brain Battles.

Then, the problem is, how will the Platinum player see the HGSS player? Maybe Miki is Dawn, not Kris?
 

Silktree

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Then, the problem is, how will the Platinum player see the HGSS player?
Platinum players will view HGSS players as if they were other Platinum players, or perhaps as DP ones. That is how communication between different, non-paired versions has worked since the Time Capsule in Gold and Silver, where Gold was "disguised" as Red (although this was most apparent in Crystal, where Kris literally transformed into Gold even from the Crystal player's perspective).

Edit: I've just noticed that this page lists all the games that are compatible with HGSS. It confirms that dual-slot communication with the GBA versions is possible when the games are played on DS or DS Lite units, and that PBR connectivity is also possible. I'm almost certain that it says that the games are not currently compatible with My Pokémon Ranch, but I'm awaiting a better translation to remove any doubts.

Remember that when first released, Platinum wasn't compatible with Ranch; an update fixing this problem was released in Japan two months later, but that hasn't been done elsewhere yet. For some reason, the presence of seven new Formes created compatibility issues with Ranch, but not with PBR (where the Formes automatically revert). Assuming that I'm correct about the same thing happening with HGSS, would the Pokémon Company and Nintendo really bother to update Ranch a second time just for Notched-ear Pichu? For that matter, Kurt's special Poké Balls shouldn't be an issue, as I don't believe that Poké Balls are viewable in Ranch. It seems to me that there has to be something else affecting compatibility.
 
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Mitchman

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Time machine connection with the gba games please. I personally hate the pal park. Also as a note hgss technically takes place before platinum so technically the frontier could be a Johto origined frontier.
 

Silktree

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Yaminokame has confirmed that the page states that HGSS won't even be compatible with the Platinum-updated version of Ranch. It has yet to be confirmed whether or not a new patch will be released at a later date, but I'm sure it will and that both it and the Platinum patch will be combined into one patch for other countries. The question is what HGSS-exclusive features the new Ranch version will promote.

The new web site has also reminded me that the games support communication with up to four other players, for a total of five. Considering that the Pokéthlon is meant for four players, we have yet to see where in the games a fifth player is going to be optional.

Mitchman said:
Also as a note hgss technically takes place before platinum so technically the frontier could be a Johto origined frontier.
The beginning of the Johto journey may take place before that of the Sinnoh one (although that has never been confirmed), but since the overall HGSS plot is longer, it ends after the Platinum plot. This is evidenced by the fact that Cynthia's last dialogue in Platinum has her refer to Arceus as the "Original One" without knowing its identity, whereas in the HGSS event she obviously discovers it (or is at least already familiar with it). Now, the Arceus event may require that some post-Elite Four be completed first (to unlock communication with DPPt games), but Johto's Battle Frontier will still be open by then.

If Game Freak care about the timeline at all and don't want to come up with a cheap explanation for the Frontier Brains traveling between Johto and Sinnoh all the time, we are due for new Frontier Brains.
 
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Greentyphlosion

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I just played a local Wireless battle and my Skymin was a regular Shaymin onPearl, just with Skymin's stats. They could do that assuming Vs Recorder capability.
Though I would prefer new Brains, Facilities, etc, what Ryuu said about not being able to see the Arcade on the map is interesting. Perhaps out of the five facilites, two are from Sinnoh (Hall/Castle) and two from Hoenn (Factory/Dome????) and then there's the obvious Tower.
Hmmm.
Well, I'm sure there'll be something else in Kanto, if only just the Trainer house. Better than nothing.
The more the merrier I guess.
 
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