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Gold and Silver DS: Discussion, Debate, Wishlists

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Silktree

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Now that the games have been announced, I'd like to point out definitively that Masuda may have very well been working on these games for three years now, as he was absent from Platinum's development team. It is also quite clear that even the members credited for developing Platinum, had been doing other things in the two years leading to its release (counting from the beginning of the generation). The number of new features in the remakes should reflect this.

When an IGN interviewer seemed to make a point of the lack of innovations in Platinum, Masuda's reply was surprisingly revealing. As a reminder:

IGN: The Pokemon series has stayed very similar throughout its lifespan. Are there plans to revamp the game and give it an overhaul?

Masuda: Yes, I understand that people talk about the strength and weakness of the series. And we always make our effort to increase the good things about Pokemon. There is something we want to improve and enhance all the time. There are lots of ideas out there and we want to make that idea realized to enhance the gameplay of Pokemon. There is some day soon that we can make an announcement about new stuff, so that's something you can look forward to.
He was no doubt thinking of HeartGold and SoulSilver, as Generation V is not going to be announced until next year at the earliest.
 

SaintDynamite

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LOL, we've been already speculating for two years in this thread- let alone independent speculation dating from 2003 (when FR/LG were first announced).

And hooray!! Pokémon Johto is my favorite opening <3

True that. I just felt there needed to be a little more fanfare after 4+ years of debate over these games!

Now that the games have been announced, I'd like to point out definitively that Masuda may have very well been working on these games for three years now, as he was absent from Platinum's development team. It is also quite clear that even the members credited for developing Platinum, had been doing other things in the two years leading to its release (counting from the beginning of the generation). The number of new features in the remakes should reflect this.

When an IGN interviewer seemed to make a point of the lack of innovations in Platinum, Masuda's reply was surprisingly revealing. As a reminder:


He was no doubt thinking of HeartGold and SoulSilver, as Generation V is not going to be announced until next year at the earliest.

I certainly hope so; the original Johto games brought the most innovation into the series and so I think that the remakes should reflect this.

My revised wish list;

  • The same IV/natures/EV system as the other 4th gen titles, but this is a given
  • Move Tutors
  • A Battle Tower or Frontier
  • Contests
  • The IV man from Emerald should return
  • Gym Leader rebattles
  • Elite 4 second wave
  • More post-national dex areas to explore besides Kanto; this could include but not be limited to the Sevii Islands
  • The FR/LG style Pokédex in addition to the usual one
  • Fame Checker
  • Item Deposits in the PC
  • Saving money with your Mom
  • Pokéradar
  • VS Seeker
  • D/P/Pts Berry Growing System
  • The little area visuals when you enter a place from FR/LG
  • Swarms

There are probably others I haven't thought of.

All Johto Pokémon should be available pre-national dex and should be used by trainers and more importantly gym leaders to showcase them properly. No Gen III or IV Pokémon pre-national dex, but evolution items such as the Shiny Stone could be available post-national dex in-game. Both Lugia and Ho-oh would be capturable. Entei and Raikou would be runners but Suicune could be involved in a Crystal-like plot with Eusine.

Kanto should not be the watered down Kanto; Viridian Forest and Mount Moon and the road to the Indigo Plateau should all be restored to their former glory at the very least. Likewise, Cinnabar Island could be restored although at least there was some in-game reason why it was the way it was, same with the Seafoam Islands.

Birth Island and Faraway Island should be present as item triggered events in the same vein as Emerald. Shaymin could also have an event through Kanto's white rock. Jirachi could get an Island. Navel Island could be adapted to allow Kyogre, Rayquaza and Groudon to be available as legends in the absence of Ho-oh and Lugia. Mewtwo could be a legend or else Cerulean Cave could be re-opened. Celebi would be made available through a Wi-Fi distributed GS ball.

In other news...
HEART GOLD & SILVER SOUL!!! GET HAPPY!!! :D
 

Maxim Posthumus

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The same IV/natures/EV system as the other 4th gen titles, but this is a given

Yeah. It's a sure thing. Everything meta-wise will be updated to Gen IV.

Move Tutors

Agree. They will probably be there for the old TM moves which aren't in TM set anymore.

A Battle Tower or Frontier

There'll probably be a Battle Tower in the same place as in Crystal.

I would, however, prefer a spinoff Wii game (Stadium: HGSS) which would act as game's Battle Frontier... But that's unlikely...


Don't agree on this one. They would seem out of place in the remake. FR/LG was perfectly fine without them... I don't know, I just don't want them... Not in Johto/Kanto, at least.

The IV man from Emerald should return

Don't care... I don't IV-train.

Gym Leader rebattles

YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! With full six Pokemon teams! That'll be cool!

Elite 4 second wave

Agree on this. It'll be cool also.

More post-national dex areas to explore besides Kanto; this could include but not be limited to the Sevii Islands

I'm hoping for Sevii here. I want to see them changed after three years. Also, I hope that the game DOES NOT incorporate any brand new region. I want to see familiar places only!

The FR/LG style Pokédex in addition to the usual one

Don't get this one... You mean - two Pokedex designs to choose? Or do you mean that evolution chain browsing? It would be useful, I agree.

Fame Checker

Yeah! Totally agree on this!

Item Deposits in the PC

Yeah. DPPt's unlimited bag was annoying sometimes...

Saving money with your Mom

I think that's expectable.

Pokéradar

Hmmm... Why not?

VS Seeker

NO! NO! NO! It will make the phone useless. I prefer phone... maybe with more numbers...

D/P/Pts Berry Growing System

It's an update to Gen IV. It'll be almost certainly there.

The little area visuals when you enter a place from FR/LG

YEAH! They'd be totally awesome! Especially if in 3D!


They were in the original. However, HGSS may introduce more of them.

All Johto Pokémon should be available pre-national dex and should be used by trainers and more importantly gym leaders to showcase them properly. No Gen III or IV Pokémon pre-national dex, but evolution items such as the Shiny Stone could be available post-national dex in-game. Both Lugia and Ho-oh would be capturable. Entei and Raikou would be runners but Suicune could be involved in a Crystal-like plot with Eusine.

Agree on this almost completely. Except Suicune. The games mascots are Lugia and Ho-oh. Not Suicune.

Kanto should not be the watered down Kanto; Viridian Forest and Mount Moon and the road to the Indigo Plateau should all be restored to their former glory at the very least. Likewise, Cinnabar Island could be restored although at least there was some in-game reason why it was the way it was, same with the Seafoam Islands.

No. It will outshine Johto. I really want to see the lessened Kanto. I don't want to see FR/LG Kanto again. And NO! NO Cinnabar! It would be an useless kick in Pokemon games continuity. Not to mention that there is NOTHING in Cinnabar that would have any purpose in GSC. So, better not... The only places I would like to have opened (after completing some quest) are: Safari Zone, Silph Co. and Radio Tower (at least people aren't screaming for Ghost Tower to go back...). Mt. Moon and Rock Tunnel aren't really useful and obligatory dungeons anymore. No need to remap them. Victory Road could be made more difficult, though... Seafoam should be kept as a Gym, though they might remap it and put Trainers into it, in order to make it more challenging.

Birth Island and Faraway Island should be present as item triggered events in the same vein as Emerald. Shaymin could also have an event through Kanto's white rock. Jirachi could get an Island. Navel Island could be adapted to allow Kyogre, Rayquaza and Groudon to be available as legends in the absence of Ho-oh and Lugia. Mewtwo could be a legend or else Cerulean Cave could be re-opened. Celebi would be made available through a Wi-Fi distributed GS ball.

Who knows...

I don't see Hoenn Trio on an island. Those three require plot to be caught...

I agree on Jirachi Island.

Cerulean Cave? NO! Mewtwo could either escape to Sevii or be just an event giveaway.

Shaymin - agreed. They referenced it in DPPt.

Birth and Faraway - maybe...
 

SaintDynamite

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I would, however, prefer a spinoff Wii game (Stadium: HGSS) which would act as game's Battle Frontier... But that's unlikely...

Seems likely we will get a Pokémon Battle Revolution 2 though.

Don't agree on this one. They would seem out of place in the remake. FR/LG was perfectly fine without them... I don't know, I just don't want them... Not in Johto/Kanto, at least.

I was thinking in Kanto post-Red. Perhaps that building in Vermillion that is always getting built could become a Contest hall. To be honest, I'm not too concerned about Contests because I don't personally play them, but many people do.

I'm hoping for Sevii here. I want to see them changed after three years. Also, I hope that the game DOES NOT incorporate any brand new region. I want to see familiar places only!

Sevii would be nice. I liked them.

Don't get this one... You mean - two Pokedex designs to choose? Or do you mean that evolution chain browsing? It would be useful, I agree.

That's exactly what I meant. Looks so much better IMO.

NO! NO! NO! It will make the phone useless. I prefer phone... maybe with more numbers...

Fair enough I suppose.

Agree on this almost completely. Except Suicune. The games mascots are Lugia and Ho-oh. Not Suicune.

True, but in D/P/Pt Mesprit, Uxie and Azelf had some minor plpt importance. Surely Suicune could be granted the same thing without taking away from Ho-oh/Lugia.

No. It will outshine Johto. I really want to see the lessened Kanto. I don't want to see FR/LG Kanto again. And NO! NO Cinnabar! It would be an useless kick in Pokemon games continuity. Not to mention that there is NOTHING in Cinnabar that would have any purpose in GSC. So, better not... The only places I would like to have opened (after completing some quest) are: Safari Zone, Silph Co. and Radio Tower (at least people aren't screaming for Ghost Tower to go back...). Mt. Moon and Rock Tunnel aren't really useful and obligatory dungeons anymore. No need to remap them. Victory Road could be made more difficult, though... Seafoam should be kept as a Gym, though they might remap it and put Trainers into it, in order to make it more challenging.

Here's where I disagree. If Johto is fixed up significantly, I can't see how Kanto would outshine it. Fair enough on no Cinnabar/Seafoam islands plot-wise, but it made no sense that Mt. Moon and Viridian Forest looked vastly different, the latter in particular. I'd be wiling to forgo changes to the road to Indigo Plateau but I really think Viridian Forest needs to become an actual forest again. Radio Tower and Silph Co have no reason to be open. Safari Zone should open though and offer Gen III and IV Pokémon.

Who knows...

I don't see Hoenn Trio on an island. Those three require plot to be caught...

Cerulean Cave? NO! Mewtwo could either escape to Sevii or be just an event giveaway.

Ho-oh and Lugia had plot in Gen II but were just on an island in Gen III. I honestly think, for completeness sake, these three should be somewhere. Groudon and Kyogre could get an island in the vein of Navel Island, and Rayquaza could roam? I don't even know. The details are unimportant, hey should be available somehow, even if as events. Same as Mewtwo. Also, even if Mewtwo wasn't there, what would be the harm in opening Cerulean Cave. It could be a Mt. Silver equivalent that now offers more Gen III and IV Pokémon, so not outshining Mt. Silver in itself which would offer different Pokémon.
 

H-con

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Liked the theme on Bulbapedia

A Celebi-event distributed, that can work. A Shaymin-event too. Can't imagine the Hoenn-trio though. Not very likely in my opinion.

Eusine should be in the game, and I support the idea that Suicune is stationary, as long as we don't have to catch all three before catching Ho-Oh, as in Crystal, but I doubt they'll make it this way, that would surprise me.

More memory for the phone. The VS-seeker isn't needed when you have a phone available. Item storage should return too. I can't safely deposit my Master Ball, and I'm too paranoid to put it on a Pokémon...
 

Zeta

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I would, however, prefer a spinoff Wii game (Stadium: HGSS) which would act as game's Battle Frontier... But that's unlikely...

Battle Revolution is already the Battle Frontier on Wii.

Don't agree on this one. They would seem out of place in the remake. FR/LG was perfectly fine without them... I don't know, I just don't want them... Not in Johto/Kanto, at least.

The games state contests take place in both Kanto and Johto, and it's a little absurd you can't find any proof of that.

Can't imagine the Hoenn-trio though. Not very likely in my opinion.

There will probably be a promotional ticket that will allow you to travel to an island with Groudon, Rayquaza, and Kyogre.

The VS-seeker isn't needed when you have a phone available.

The VS-Seeker allows you to rebattle any trainer on the overworld, while the phone function only allowed that to happen with a handful of specific trainers.
 

TTEchidna

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Hey, now that we've had Gigas requiring the other golems, and Crystal had Ho-Oh requiring the beasts... this could be why Pt has the birds in the first place. Lugia needs them.
 

Maxim Posthumus

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Hey, now that we've had Gigas requiring the other golems, and Crystal had Ho-Oh requiring the beasts... this could be why Pt has the birds in the first place. Lugia needs them.

You realize that the whole "Lugia is the birds lord" is actually an anime gimmick?
 

SaintDynamite

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Ho-oh shouldn't require the beasts as Lugia shouldn't require the birds. Regigigas is an optional legendary, H and L are the mascots. They should be available in the same way they were in the original G/S.

Also, a new Battle revolution would allow us to Wii it up with our good friends Origin Forme Giratina, Sky Shaymin, Notch-Ear Pichu and yonder toaster ghost of lore, Rotom. And whatever else may or may not be introduced. :)
 
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Zeta

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Hey, now that we've had Gigas requiring the other golems, and Crystal had Ho-Oh requiring the beasts... this could be why Pt has the birds in the first place. Lugia needs them.

A) Lugia being related to the Bird Trio, like so much Legendary Lore, comes only from the anime.

B) Needing the Birds would negate the need for the Silver Wing, and I don't think they would make you play through Platinum to get the Legendary on the BOX of Silver.

Also, a new Battle revolution would allow us to Wii it up with our good friends Origin Forme Giratina, Sky Shaymin, Notch-Ear Pichu and yonder toaster ghost of lore, Rotom. And whatever else may or may not be introduced. :)

I think at this point, Genus Snority has a new RPG lined up, probably with some expanded multiplayer, to be released in the next 2 years.
 

SaintDynamite

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I think at this point, Genus Snority has a new RPG lined up, probably with some expanded multiplayer, to be released in the next 2 years.

I certainly hope it's an RPG, but I'm not expecting anything more than a PBR style game. If it is an RPG then it's a welcome bonus :)
 

Maxim Posthumus

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Battle Revolution is already the Battle Frontier on Wii.

And it sucks.

Because it kills any relation with DPPt. It's like... a completely different world from the main games. While the Stadium games felt like awesome extension of main games, with the world being set in the main game reality. But, you're right, we have PBR, so Nintendo (or whoever behind them) will be too lazy to make such game.

If they released a new PBR with a more Stadium feel to it (ACTUAL Trainer classes from the games, cups, Gym Leader Castle, all the mainstream game ties, Mini-games and much more), we'll have an awesome game which will make our remakes even more exciting. Something that PBR didn't give us.


The games state contests take place in both Kanto and Johto, and it's a little absurd you can't find any proof of that.

The contest that Daisy won mentioned in one of Pokemon Journals in FR/LG? It was also mentioned that it was a several years old Pokemon Journal issue. The Contests may not be in Kanto and Johto anymore. And seriously, I just can't associate Contests with GSC reality. With all those Contest things and items, they'll just uselessly ruin the remake.

The VS-Seeker allows you to rebattle any trainer on the overworld, while the phone function only allowed that to happen with a handful of specific trainers.

That's what I mean. If VS Seeker was there, the Phone would not be needed anymore because all trainers would be already rematchable with the Seeker. Those two just don't exist next to each other...
 

Zeta

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Because it kills any relation with DPPt. It's like... a completely different world from the main games. While the Stadium games felt like awesome extension of main games, with the world being set in the main game reality. But, you're right, we have PBR, so Nintendo (or whoever behind them) will be too lazy to make such game.

I personally thought that the Stadium games felt more like the anime than the games.

The contest that Daisy won mentioned in one of Pokemon Journals in FR/LG? It was also mentioned that it was a several years old Pokemon Journal issue. The Contests may not be in Kanto and Johto anymore. And seriously, I just can't associate Contests with GSC reality. With all those Contest things and items, they'll just uselessly ruin the remake.

Just like all those islands, new moves, and the Trainer tower and all those Gen III berries and crap ruined FireRed and LeafGreen! Damn them!

That's what I mean. If VS Seeker was there, the Phone would not be needed anymore because all trainers would be already rematchable with the Seeker. Those two just don't exist next to each other...

Phone = Swarms, instead of having to rely on the darn TV in your rival's house.
 

Martonimos

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The names HeartGold and SoulSilver sounds very spiritual. I personally like those names.

This. They are unusual, yes, and if you had brought them up a few days ago, I would have dismissed them out of hand. But I have to say, I like them. I'm looking forward to the new directions the remakes go in.
 

Maxim Posthumus

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I personally thought that the Stadium games felt more like the anime than the games.

Because of those graphics, maybe. I've never viewed them to be anime-ish...

Just like all those islands, new moves, and the Trainer tower and all those Gen III berries and crap ruined FireRed and LeafGreen! Damn them!

No, islands, updates etc. were a very good and NEEDED addition to FR/LG.

Contests, however, are a different thing because they require all those things like accessories, Contest items, poffins and all that stuff needed for the Contests. That would mean reworking the game strongly (and putting giant Contest Hall somewhere in Johto) which simply does not work with GSC reality.

So, don't compare addition of Contest to trans-generational updates and adding new places.

Phone = Swarms, instead of having to rely on the darn TV in your rival's house.

Yeah but... Swarms and several calls from Elm at the beginning for the game are not really a good excuse for a phone. Trainer rematches should still be there. So, Vs Seeker is really uncalled for here. I really miss the good ole' phone. Vs Seeker with its charging is really a tired thing. Phone is way more exciting.
 

Zeta

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Contests, however, are a different thing because they require all those things like accessories, Contest items, poffins and all that stuff needed for the Contests. That would mean reworking the game strongly (and putting giant Contest Hall somewhere in Johto) which simply does not work with GSC reality.

So, don't compare addition of Contest to trans-generational updates and adding new places.

Did I forget the game forcing you to take place in contests? Is 2-minutes of an NPC giving you some extra items really going to ruin the game for you?
 

Maxim Posthumus

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Did I forget the game forcing you to take place in contests? Is 2-minutes of an NPC giving you some extra items really going to ruin the game for you?

Yeah, I'm not forced to participate in a contest. And that's why Contest are generally a gimmick. Introducing them in the anime was indeed a revolution, in the games, it was not.

And yes, a big Contest Hall and tons of additional things for contest CAN ruin the game. I'm expecting to see old good Johto in HGSS. Even if no one forces me to enter/use those things, they don't fit my view (and not only my one, I believe) of a perfect Pokemon GS remake.

Also, including of Pokemon Contests in Johto will add one technical problem to the game - Ribbons! Hoenn and Sinnoh have the regions of its acquiring mentioned in the description, so reusing old ribbons would not work. And since there are no Johto ribbons in DPPt data, it would be a big problem. Of course, they already have the same problem with items but I think I know a way to (partially) solve it. Also, the items may always be taken out of Pokemon. Ribbons can not.
 

Zeta

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Yeah, I'm not forced to participate in a contest. And that's why Contest are generally a gimmick. Introducing them in the anime was indeed a revolution, in the games, it was not.

So you don't like the Contests because you're NOT forced to do them?

And yes, a big Contest Hall and tons of additional things for contest CAN ruin the game. I'm expecting to see old good Johto in HGSS. Even if no one forces me to enter/use those things, they don't fit my view (and not only my one, I believe) of a perfect Pokemon GS remake.

And your view is the only one that matters, since you're the producer of the games. There are plently of people who would have said that allowing you to acquire ANY Pokemon besides the original 151 didn't fit their view of remaking RBGY, but . . .
 

KedaseDerragar

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Yeah, I'm not forced to participate in a contest. And that's why Contest are generally a gimmick. Introducing them in the anime was indeed a revolution, in the games, it was not.

And yes, a big Contest Hall and tons of additional things for contest CAN ruin the game. I'm expecting to see old good Johto in HGSS. Even if no one forces me to enter/use those things, they don't fit my view (and not only my one, I believe) of a perfect Pokemon GS remake.

Also, including of Pokemon Contests in Johto will add one technical problem to the game - Ribbons! Hoenn and Sinnoh have the regions of its acquiring mentioned in the description, so reusing old ribbons would not work. And since there are no Johto ribbons in DPPt data, it would be a big problem. Of course, they already have the same problem with items but I think I know a way to (partially) solve it. Also, the items may always be taken out of Pokemon. Ribbons can not.

Simple solution: Johto ribbons are kept in a case like badges are. There, problem solved.

No one's buying the "argument" that contests will somehow ruin the entire game, so you might as well quit while you're behind. :| Hell, they've got plenty of space to put them in - remember how about half of Goldenrod's map (and Saffron and Celadon's, for that matter) is empty space? Poffin house and contest hall could go right there, or even in the underground passageway that was so empty. There's no lack of space, and you're under zero obligation to do it, so why want to ruin everyone else's fun. There are a lot of players out there for whom the contests were a major revolution, whether you like it or not, and there's unarguably a contingent of players who train much more for contests than for battles.

One of the greatest things about the Pokémon games is that there are a lot of different styles of playing, and a lot of different roles to take, whether it's a trainer, a breeder, a collector, or even a contest coordinator. So how about you stop putting down the contests and everyone who enjoys them and start talking in positives for once - instead of arguing how things shouldn't be there, how about what you think should?
 
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