Gold and Silver DS: Discussion, Debate, Wishlists

[Silktree]

Items yes, but new pokemon no, its ok for some items to restrict trade, with whirlpool I can see this more, but not new pokemon, there is a difference here, like restricting rotoms formes from being traded to D/P as they were not programmed into those games. Formes of pokemon restricted I can see, for obvious reason, but entirely new pokemon I still can't see being made just yet, not even for a remake, only you can see this as far as I know.

Going into this argument again is quite futile, but there is nothing obvious about restricting trades of evolution-like alternate forms (Rotom's as the case may be), while failing to do so for actual evolutions or a new event Pokémon. In all cases, the Pokémon addition is exclusive to the new game, and the only difference regarding alternate forms is the possibility to avoid a direct ban on trading - through automatically reverting the form against the player's will.

I understand that the move would be unprecedented, but if you accept trading restrictions as a general solution, then you should also agree that there would be no drawback to the implementation of my idea.

Well, if you think there should have been a third remake to FR/LG, what extras would it have? A Battle Frontier? Which was in Emerald anyway and I doubt they could create a battle frontier in a remake, just to have one in Emerald anyway. Was there much difference between Blue to Red and Green at the time? Maybe it was because of Emerald that a third remake never happened.

I specified in my reply to your original post what additional content it would have had, and a retread of Emerald's Battle Frontier is far from it. If you didn't understand what I meant about some things (such as the various portions of unused data), we can have this discussion over private messages. But the fact of the matter is that whatever you can say against a third game to FireRed and LeafGreen, applies just as well to a Crystal remake.

 

[Mika555]

I'm thinking it would definitely be a revamped PokéGear, probably with fewer functions than the Pokétch, but also (hopefully) with a clearer map and overall better graphics - if it looked anything like the Battle Recorder interface, I'd be very, very happy.

There was a clearer map on Johto on that serebii site under the Pokeearth project. I cannot zoom in on it, but here is the link.
http://www.serebii.net/pokearth/
I must also warn you that a GS remake is look down upon on serebii website and some of the users on the will most likely flame your ideas.
Now I would also see improved graphs as well as about a few new characters who were not in the original games.

I also would like to see the characters in different clothes as well and I want what there clothes would look like. They will probably give the male and female protagonist the same hair color that Koki (Lucas) and Hikari (Dawn) had, but the question is how different will there hairstyle be. The rivals hair color will probably look slighty different in facial features, but I think that he might have the same hairstyle as was in the original games.
I also wonder if Red, Green(Blue), and Leaf(If she appears) will have slightly different clothes then they did in Pokemon FireRed and LeafGreen. Of course they will mostly like look the same as they were in Pokemon FRLG, but redressed.

 

[Silktree]

They will probably give the male and female protagonist the same hair color that Koki (Lucas) and Hikari (Dawn) had, but the question is how different will there hairstyle be.

Why would their hair colors be reminiscent of Lucas and Dawn, as opposed to the original Gold and Kris? Of course, they could be completely new as Red's was.

 

[KedaseDerragar]

I would expect though it not to work as well on a normal DS. The game engine sure works fine but with a full fledged Poketech style engine that is far far FAR more advanced is a bit pushing it. I mean the map needs to be open all the time there is the phone and the radio and not to mention more features and all this being in color. I would expect the DSi with its extra oomph in power to get some sort of exclusivity out of this. The DS would have the game pause automatically where you would need to temporarily close the pokegear while on the DSi its able from the get go. I mean both would be the same just with the DSi enhanced it works more smoothly without the pausing.

I think even the old original DS (which I have) could handle it just fine - have you seen The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass? Having persistent good graphics on the bottom screen wouldn't be a problem at all, especially since all that it's doing is throwing up an image or two and moving them around a bit, while playing appropriate sound effects. There's nothing all that complex about it.

 

[Mika555]

Why would their hair colors be reminiscent of Lucas and Dawn, as opposed to the original Gold and Kris? Of course, they could be completely new as Red's was.

Nevermind about that I was just thinking about it the wrong way, but I think they could either have a navy blue, light blue, or sky blue or even a greenish color.

 

[Shinx3000]

Ok, a few of us have different views on a remake. This is fine. But lets put some of those ideas aside for a minute and post what each of you would think happen if the remakes were being worked on now. I'll start.

First, we will get an announcement just before the 12th movie (if something else does not come up), the Johto starters and if thats what its for, the NEP will advertise it a little. The Anime will continue as normal and by end of year Ash should be past Sunnyshore and probably a Sinnoh League battles/E4 will take place.

At this stage the games should be released. They will have obvious updates and modifications for the DS, not going to be for DSi only as the only games I see DSi only will be downloadable games for it, using DSiWare.

The games won't feature any new pokemon. to maintain compatibility with trading the pokemon themselves to D/P/Pt, some can dispute this with deoxys, but its data was present in R/S whatever the reason and to keep things the way they have always been when trading pokemon to the same Gen main games of that time, a few formes like NEP could be used instead of new pokemon, like the rotoms formes in Platinum, then you could still trade rotom to D/P games

By mid spring 2010, Ash will be at the point of finishing E4 battles and a while later will be going to the Battle Frontier, and if Emerald was anything to go by, there will be on, and for a remake, it will be in Johto. Ash will probably use his Johto pokemon here to promote the remakes more and to give them screentime again as I think thats needed.

Dawn will probably do contests in Johto too. At this stage, somwhere in Battle frontier, we will get the first glimpse of Gen V pokemon, if it is to happen, maybe one character will catch one, like Brock and bonsly. This assumingly is if the show goes the way the previous Battle Frontier went, with showing us Bonsly, Electivire and Munchlax.

Then at the end of the Battle frontier or near it, maybe a character will show a Gen V pokemon, like how Gary showed Electivire. Then at this stage, Oak will tell gang about the next region or whatever, which will be around late 2010 and Gen V will happen not long after. The GS games will be around a year old by now and at the start of 2011 we will see Gen V games if it happens, the a new anime saga.

The Gen V game will usually come before the region in anime its happened this way, with exception of R/S which came same time as Advanced gen first aired in Japan.

Movie 13 will probably be released in 2010 too, around the same time as movie 12 porbably and might showcase a Gen V pokemon. Also there are a few story lines they could do: Celebi, Unown, Legendary dogs (all as I don't think they have all been in one movie)Another movie with both Ho-oH and Lugia or something related to the Gen V pokemon. (I know Celebi is probably not the best storyline to go on because its been used a few times, so why not a Xatu instead? Same principle, but different pokemon)

 

[Silktree]

There is little chance of Generation V being released by early 2011. Even under the highly problematic assumption that Generation V could be released for the DS, which would require putting the DS' successor on hold until after mid-2012 and avoiding its promotion throughout 2011, Game Freak can't be expected to develop a new generation so soon after the remakes. They will need around two years to develop a new generation to its full potential (which I don't see as being on the DS, anyway); it is very hard to argue otherwise when the gap between Diamond and Pearl and their third game, of all things, was just two weeks short of two years.

It is far more likely that we will have to contend with both Movie 13 and Movie 14 before Generation V is out.

 

[Zeta]

(I know Celebi is probably not the best storyline to go on because its been used a few times, so why not a Xatu instead? Same principle, but different pokemon)

Because Xatu isn't a legendary, can't travel through time, and is not a promotional Pokemon and can be easily obtained in the current generation, making it worthless to base a storyline or promotion around it.

 

[Shinx3000]

Because Xatu isn't a legendary, can't travel through time, and is not a promotional Pokemon and can be easily obtained in the current generation, making it worthless to base a storyline or promotion around it.

Have you seen the Johto episode where the trainer came from the future with a Xatu? In "Me, Myself and Time" I thought it was the Xatu that Calista's owned that came from the future, I don't excatly remember how, but it must have came from the future somehow.

I never said that one pokemon like Xatu could be in movie 13, maybe it and a Gen V legendary or Gen II Legendary or something.

 

[Kyoko-chan]

I believe that there should be a remake of Gold and Silver for the DS. If this came to be, a lot of pokemon fans, including myself, would be really happy. This is definitely a great idea!

 

[KingNido]

There is so much demand for a remake that Game Freak are almost obliged to make it. it was the same situation with FR/LG a few years back. there is a lot of clues/evidence pointing towards a Johto adventure but unless someone can squeeze some information out of a Nintendo/Game Freak employee nothing is certain!

 

[Zeta]

What I'm wondering is if the new evolutions will be included into the new Johto dex. As everyone remembers, one of the biggest complaints about the Gen II Pokemon was far too many weak non-evolving Pokemon and many of the Gen II Pokemon had to be caught IN KANTO. Including Wynaut, Ambipom, Murkrow, Honchkrow, Misdreavus, Mismagius, Bonsly, Sneasel, Weavile, Togekiss, Yanmega, Gliscor, Mamoswine, Slugma, Magcargo, Houndour, and Houndoom all prior to beating the Elite Four would solve a lot of complaints from regular GSC.

 

[Shinx3000]

What I'm wondering is if the new evolutions will be included into the new Johto dex. As everyone remembers, one of the biggest complaints about the Gen II Pokemon was far too many weak non-evolving Pokemon and many of the Gen II Pokemon had to be caught IN KANTO. Including Wynaut, Ambipom, Murkrow, Honchkrow, Misdreavus, Mismagius, Bonsly, Sneasel, Weavile, Togekiss, Yanmega, Gliscor, Mamoswine, Slugma, Magcargo, Houndour, and Houndoom all prior to beating the Elite Four would solve a lot of complaints from regular GSC.

I am liking this idea. Yanmega would be a great bug type to have. I know FR/LG held off evolutions to after national dex. But then there was only a few: Elekid, Magby, Pichu, wynaut and crobat in game available. This time, we have a lot more evolutions of Johto and Kanto pokemon:

Happiny, Yanmega, Mamoswine, Likiliky, Wynaut, Bonsly, Munchlax, Electivire, Weavile, Togekiss, Mismeagus, Honchkrow, Ambipom, Cleffa, Magnezone

remember, even though Johto was a big part of GSC, I assume now that Kanto will be expanded too, maybe include Sevii and that are will be (not as) but important as Johto is, even if Johto is the main region you start from.

Adding some new Gen IV evolutions would solve a few problems, like Weavile, Likiliky, Misdreavus and Yanmega.

There is little chance of Generation V being released by early 2011. Even under the highly problematic assumption that Generation V could be released for the DS, which would require putting the DS' successor on hold until after mid-2012 and avoiding its promotion throughout 2011, Game Freak can't be expected to develop a new generation so soon after the remakes. They will need around two years to develop a new generation to its full potential (which I don't see as being on the DS, anyway); it is very hard to argue otherwise when the gap between Diamond and Pearl and their third game, of all things, was just two weeks short of two years.

First, there is nothing to say they don't have ideas for the next gen, they apparently had ideas for over 1000 pokemon before, but some got scrapped and others got changed. And second, if the anime is to continue, it has to be based of the games, which will only lcan be done so long if GS is remade, then something completly new will have to be made, a.k.a a Gen V. The current series will end up being as long as the whole Advanced gen was anyway then we will probably get Battle Frontier which IMO, won't take too long to show, then something after that will have to happen if anime is to go on.

The anime has always used the games for bases, exception of Orange Islands and the games have to come first, I think, but R/S disproves that, but you can't hold of new stuff foe too long, even just for a possibliltiy of a remake.

There is nothing to say also that the next pokemon game after the next ones, will be for a DS sucessor. Yes, advancements in hand-held consoles has been happening over the years and the pokemon games have been created for the newest one out, but creating a pokemon game and creating a hand-held console are two different things. You can't just hold of a game in hopes that a new system will be created so it can be used for it.

 

[Silktree]

Including Wynaut, Ambipom, Murkrow, Honchkrow, Misdreavus, Mismagius, Bonsly, Sneasel, Weavile, Togekiss, Yanmega, Gliscor, Mamoswine, Slugma, Magcargo, Houndour, and Houndoom all prior to beating the Elite Four would solve a lot of complaints from regular GSC.

This has been discussed before, but you're the first one to suggest that only the Generation II evolutions and pre-evolutions be included, with the Generation I ones removed. You forgot the Larvitar line, but suffice to say that Misdreavus, Murkrow, Slugma, Houndour and Larvitar should all be wild Johto Pokémon in the remakes.

However, I don't agree that there was a sizable number of complaints about the in-game usage of Generation II Pokémon. I think that this is an odd statement coming from someone who has said that most players, who are young, don't mind not being able to use Platinum's alternate forms in Wi-Fi battle - simply because they don't really care about stat differences. While I didn't agree with you then, I do hold that anyone who has a hard team defeating the Elite Four with Yanma, Gligar, Murkrow, Misdreavus, Sneasel and Piloswine, which are all decent critters, isn't a good player. The in-game battles are deliberately made not to be too hard, so that even the likes of Raticate and Butterfree can be used without much problem. Now, competitive battles are a whole other story that obviously isn't part of this discussion, and there are plenty of other Pokémon, including Generation II ones, that could use an evolution but don't have one as of yet.

If to be clear, I don't think any of the Generation IV Pokémon should be obtainable pre-Elite Four. If they weren't already playable from the get-go in Platinum, there would be an incentive to break FireRed and LeafGreen's precedent - but that isn't the case. Including the new evolutions and pre-evolutions in the Johto Dex would, in fact, defeat the purpose of making the obtaining of those Pokémon dependent on cumbersome methods. Those methods, after all, were introduced so as to explain the absence of those Pokémon from the original games; if the remakes made those methods accessible from the very beginning, it would be as if Game Freak had changed their minds about being consistent with respect to canon. The minor gameplay benefits wouldn't be worth it.

Lastly, there should be a lot to do post-National Dex with the Kanto Gym Leaders and Red, as well as the potential rematches (for all 16 Gym Leaders as well as the Elite Four), new trainers (such as Leaf) and story continuation. In other words, there will be ample of time to enjoy not only the new evolutions, but also the Generation III Pokémon that should be catchable around that time. I also think that much like the Sinnoh Pokédex, the Johto Dex won't impose restrictions on trading, so that any player who really wants to use new Pokémon right off the bat can do so via trading. It won't constitute as normal gameplay, and as such won't affect the pre-Elite Four characters' teams.

First, there is nothing to say they don't have ideas for the next gen, they apparently had ideas for over 1000 pokemon before, but some got scrapped and others got changed. And second, if the anime is to continue, it has to be based of the games, which will only lcan be done so long if GS is remade, then something completly new will have to be made, a.k.a a Gen V. The current series will end up being as long as the whole Advanced gen was anyway then we will probably get Battle Frontier which IMO, won't take too long to show, then something after that will have to happen if anime is to go on.

The anime has always used the games for bases, exception of Orange Islands and the games have to come first, I think, but R/S disproves that, but you can't hold of new stuff foe too long, even just for a possibliltiy of a remake.

The anime's alleged need for a new region is entirely in your mind. The Kanto Battle Frontier saga lasted 15 months, and most viewers found it to be rushed. Your assumption that a new Johto saga can't go on for about two years is awfully convenient, if to say the least. It also boggles my mind why you seem to think that the anime is given priority over the games to the point where it determines the course of the franchise.

I am not going into another debate about whether or not Generation V can be released for the DS. Considering that the DSi's sales are lower than the DS Lite's, and that the DS Lite's sales became stagnant within less than three years, it is highly probable that a new iteration (which should logically be titled as a successor) will be released by by the end of 2011 - around the DSi's third anniversary. Game Freak will want to release a new generation for that platform.

But this is all beside the point. The "there is nothing to say that" excuse is getting quite old; the burden of proof lies on you to show that Game Freak can make do with barely over a year to develop a new generation - even for the DS. Not only have all previous generations shown us that at least two years are necessary, they've also shown us that a new generation requires around two years of pre-release promotion. What you are suggesting for Generation V would give it one measly year of being foreshadowed, which worse still, would come at the expense of proper focus on GSDS.

 

[Captain_Bird]

I believe that there should be a remake of Gold and Silver for the DS. If this came to be, a lot of pokemon fans, including myself, would be really happy. This is definitely a great idea!

I agree Kyoko-Chan. I always thought that GSC was the best game of all the first III gens. I was so dispointted with RSE that i re-bought a Game Boy Color and started some GSC tournaments with some friends of mine. I would so definetly buy the remake. But i would like it to be called Golden Sun/Silver Moon, as some internet dudes posted that it was going to be called the Gen V Remake.

 

[Shinx3000]

The anime's alleged need for a new region is entirely in your mind. The Kanto Battle Frontier saga lasted 15 months, and most viewers found it to be rushed. Your assumption that a new Johto saga can't go on for about two years is awfully convenient, if to say the least. It also boggles my mind why you seem to think that the anime is given priority over the games to the point where it determines the course of the franchise.

I never said this time the anime comes before games, just that if the anime is to continue, it will have to at some point look beyond a remake and D/P. I just mentioned R/S because those games were released the same day as the Advanced gen aired in Japan.

But this is all beside the point. The "there is nothing to say that" excuse is getting quite old; the burden of proof lies on you to show that Game Freak can make do with barely over a year to develop a new generation - even for the DS. Not only have all previous generations shown us that at least two years are necessary, they've also shown us that a new generation requires around two years of pre-release promotion. What you are suggesting for Generation V would give it one measly year of being foreshadowed, which worse still, would come at the expense of proper focus on GSDS.

Do you know what Game Freak can or can't do? I think not, I can't say I do either.

And lets not being up FR/LG remake as a basis for this remake if it happens, because it will be at a different time and some things will be different. You seem to use a lot of past information on a basis of what they could do this time, but you seem to shoot down the idea that there won't be any new pokemon added, which has never happened in the past, regardless of using Deoxys as "evidence"

it seems to me that you think I have to more or less believe what you say on many things and if I don't, I am wrong.

It is different this time than it has been, and just because things have happened the way you have said in past, who is to say that will happen this time around, given when the remakes will come.

Anyway, we should not argue like this, its pointless. We have different opinions on some things, but no sence getting into arguments over them.

 

[Silktree]

I don't enjoy these debates, either, but your timetable doesn't make much sense in my eyes. You're more than entitled to post your ideas just to let it be known what you think can happen, but I would think that you'd be interested to see other people's comments.

And lets not being up FR/LG remake as a basis for this remake if it happens, because it will be at a different time and some things will be different.

Indeed, some things will be different. Under the (fairly safe) assumption that the third game of Generation IV will be followed by a set of remakes rather than a new generation, circumstances will be different compared to what they were in 2004. But does that mean that the Pokémon Company should present the remakes as filler games in preparation for Generation V by allocating hardly any time to their advertisement? Quite far from it - what it will mean is that the companies in question have prioritized the remakes over Generation V. How they will go from there remains to seen, but cramming in both the remakes and a new generation within little more than a year isn't the most logical path to take.

You seem to use a lot of past information on a basis of what they could do this time, but you seem to shoot down the idea that there won't be any new pokemon added, which has never happened in the past, regardless of using Deoxys as "evidence"

I didn't shoot down that idea - I made a case for my own. If anything, you chose to dismiss my idea, although in your defense, you did seem to think it had some chance of occurring. What I did say was that a movie focused on a new Celebi form doesn't come across as a particularly good concept, and replacing it with something like Xatu would actually make it worse.

 

[VeggiePopper]

As far as I know, Blue wasn't going to be remade, the name WaterBlue was trademarked for use it in the international release instead of LeafGreen just like the original games. I'm form the ones that thinks that Crystal won't be remade, but instead its exclusive features are going to be included in Gold and Silver remakes. Yellow, Crystal, Emerald and Platinum are all remakes at a certain degree, so wouldn't it be stupid to have a remake of a remake?
A generation of six main games seems to me too much, even for Nintendo and Pokémon standards.

 

[Mr. Pokemon]

I've never completely understood the HM issue. It's not like the HM moves were deleted from the next games, they were just turned into TMs or moves taught by the Move Tutor. They just lost their out-of-battle use. The way it should work is, you trade a Pokemon from DPPt with the HM Defog. You trade it to GSDS. Now, before that happens, the game checks to make sure you have another Pokemon with that move. Once that check finds that you have another Pokemon with Defog, the trade goes through. In GSDS, your Staravia still knows Defog (and since GSDS is a Gen IV game, it works out fine) but instead of being able to use it out-of-battle, it's now just a regular move as if it was taught through a TM or the Move Tutor.

 

[Silktree]

I've never completely understood the HM issue. It's not like the HM moves were deleted from the next games, they were just turned into TMs or moves taught by the Move Tutor.

There isn't any real issue, but you're oversimplifying things. While it may be true that HM moves are no different to other moves once taught (except for cases of a release or transfer, where the Pokémon is lost for good), there is still the matter of the actual items. DorianBlack had thought that HMs could be held by Pokémon and thus traded to other games, but I pointed out that that isn't the case (which is the reason FireRed and LeafGreen could get away with not having a Dive HM). It was also discussed that a more significant issue could arise from making Flash a HM like in the previous three generations. If that happened, TM70 would have to contain some other move, and that would have to be addressed when dealing with compatibility with DPPt. Shinx3000 suggested limiting compatibility, but I asserted that even though it could easily be done, it shouldn't be necessary in that particular case. Instead:

The only real problem that could arise is the lack of a Flash HM, but unlike the Generation I and Generation III games, the dark caves in Generation II were optional (much like Wayward Cave in Generation IV). It is also possible that if Mt. Silver becomes integral to the story (by way of making the battle against Red relevant to another event), it will be filled with fog instead, with Defog remaining a HM.

I'd also like to add Whirl Islands as a dark place that might be relevant to another event in the remakes (even though capturing Lugia was strictly optional in the original games). Again, if that turned out to be the case (I would hope so), the caves would be accordingly redesigned. After all, Mt. Mortar (which is an optional location) required Flash in Gold and Silver, but was already lit in Crystal.

Given their descriptions, Johto's Dark Cave and Kanto's Rock Tunnel will require Flash yet again. But much like in the original games, there will be other ways to get to Blackthorn City and Lavender Town.