Mafia Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Endgame - "Decisive Fire" ~ Mafia/Indep Win!

[sharkshocker]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

I really don't see why Yato should be voted for voting somebody who hasn't voted somebody? It's true there's meta like Zexy said that should be kept in mind, but then we won't be getting anywhere if we play safe like that, and it's just a vote(it's good he brought it up though because it made the day into a serious one). GastlyGibus's "vote" of voting everyone was technically not a vote either, but then it helps the lighthearted mood and thinking he's just "laying low" as Mafia in the beginning of Day 1 where there's a lot of joke voting going around would be taking it a bit too far.

I also don't think we should pressure RS, or well, anyone for thoughts yet because there's really nothing, and whatever to make of the situation would probably be repeated thoughts which I don't think would lead to any discussion.

A vote or a non-vote can lead to some trails, mafia wouldn't like being noticed even if Day 1 seems like it's mostly joke votes.

You know what? I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a serious vote. There's a level of ridiculousness acceptable in D1, and voting someone for not placing a joke vote is a little bit off to me.

Although Yato gave his reasoning, what made you think it wasn't a joke vote?

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

You know what? I'm gonna go ahead and say that's a serious vote. There's a level of ridiculousness acceptable in D1, and voting someone for not placing a joke vote is a little bit off to me.

Although Yato gave his reasoning, what made you think it wasn't a joke vote?

Heh. Originally I had intended my own vote as a joke vote, but when Zexy questioned it a bit, I couldn't resist the urge to start a genuine discussion. That's what I love about D1, the most minor and trivial things can get everyone talking. And now we have reactions and stuff to work on.

Yato's response is interesting, I think, but I can sort of see the reasoning behind it.

Now, though, there's something else I've noticed.

UNVOTE: Yato
VOTE: Zexy

@Zexy; You've consistently stayed in the middle ground throughout every little bit of this fiasco, and all the subsequent ones. You actively post, yet defend everyone equally and don't take any stance of your own. You ask questions, but don't make any convictions. Do you have any comments on this observation?

 

[Fatima Shadow Frost Witch]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Well, yeah, it's D1, so we don't expect a wallpost about your opinions on them, but surely you've got even the most minor of opinions on them. They're the ones who've spoken most, so you have actions to base reads off, right? Like, there's got to be something you can garner from their posts, even if it's not much.

Like, say, do you think Zexy has been towntelling with trying to get us somewhere by focusing on Yato/Gliscorman, or do you think it's scummy that they tried focusing on something so seemingly minor? That's one way you can look at this for reads, though you shouldn't ignore the material that Yato & GM have supplied, either.

I'll go back and read them again then tell you

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

UNVOTE: Elysion
VOTE: Zexy

To add on to GM's wording, something Zexy did stuck out to me as well. He kept asking for other players thoughts on him, despite the attention being on RS, GM, and Yato. There was no reason for him to do that, and it just seems jumpy.

 

[Clusiana]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

He kept asking for other players thoughts on him,

Using "kept" in this situation is a bit of an over exaggeration in terms of asking people what they thought of him, though, because he only asked once, and that was directed towards me, which was an understandable question, considering how I was preaching about how every opinion is important while not offering my own. And I did use Zexy's towniness/scuminess as an example, which only begged for him to ask, as it does pose the question as to what I think if I'm bringing up "arguments" for/against him.

While his neutrality (something I'm kinda ashamed I didn't notice, haha) is a decent point, I'm not sure that it really deserves a death sentence, especially since, like, at least he's defending at all rather than leaving people to... well, not the wolves, but he could just not make the effort at all and leave it to everyone else, rather than taking it upon himself and eliminating the possibility that the person being accused could screw up in defending themselves somehow, if that makes sense? I guess that can be debunked by saying he's defending his partner or something, but... I mean, he's been making a fair effort the entire time, and it didn't seem to spike in his defenses, if that makes sense? Like, there was no desperation or anything, which I think would be present if he was afraid enough of his partner dying for him to swoop in and defend them, just him stating his opinion, y'know?

I don't think his neutrality is as scummy as it really could be, and so, I don't think this lynch is particularly founded. It's an interesting observation, though, so I do want to hear what he has to say to GM's vote.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

@Clusiana;

But you vote him because of the fact he didn't. What would it take for you to unvote him, then?

I didn't vote for RS just for not placing a joke vote. I voted RS for not even placing a joke vote. RS only stated that he was going to wait for more info. Why not place a vote - joke vote or serious vote - and get some reactions, whether they are jokes or not?
@RainbowSkittles;

Is there this much of a difference? It's Day 1 after all, there is no info around.
Well, RS is always like that, it is his meta. He says this anytime, and this had led to him being an easy Day 1 mislynch in the past.
I get your point, indeed it is reactions that you are getting, from me and GliscorMan. What is needed for discussion to begin, that is.

EDIT:

You want me to place one? I will eventually when things get started

Oh. Well, things are now getting started... thoughts on me, Yato or GM?

Interesting point. I would like to ask what do you think of me.

.

So no he did not ask just you, and the fact that he felt the need to ask at all is what makes me so suspicious.

 

[Clusiana]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

So no he did not ask just you, and the fact that he felt the need to ask at all is what makes me so suspicious.

I didn't count the first time as asking about him since he specified two other people, the ones under the limelight and therefore the ones more easily commented on, meaning that asking about himself at that point was pointless, 'cause he'd get no reply. So the first time, well, it wouldn't have mattered if he put himself as an option (actually, allowing himself to be focused on is a towntell, kinda, since it could easily point out any flaws he could have due to the attention he'd garner), and the second time, the question was basically being begged, so...

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

@Clusiana; He notably didn't put RS under that light, and you just said yourself that he begged you for your opinion on him. Again why would anyone feel the need to do that? Mafia could easily put themselves in limelight to try to look more town.

 

[Clusiana]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

He notably didn't put RS under that light,

RS was already excused due to meta.

and you just said yourself that he begged you for your opinion on him.

No, what I said was that, by what I said and my actions, it was a natural follow-up question; what I did "begged the question" as to what I thought about Zexy. He was far from begging, and you know that.

Again why would anyone feel the need to do that?

To promote discussion even at (potentially) their own expense?

Mafia could easily put themselves in limelight to try to look more town.

Null point. It's like saying that someone's mafia for towntelling, since mafia can towntell, too.

 

[jokool]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

I agree that Zexy's neutrality did jump out at me a bit, but I don't think there's enough to vote on him yet. I'd like to hear more from him though.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering, the current votes are:

Rabbit: I
Zexy: II
Momoka: I
Squall Leonhart: I
RainbowSkittles: I

 

[Fatima Shadow Frost Witch]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

I just finished reading everything

It really could go either way with anyone's possible intention so early in the game.

I would have to agree with what HumanDawn says^here

Like, say, do you think Zexy has been towntelling with trying to get us somewhere by focusing on Yato/Gliscorman, or do you think it's scummy that they tried focusing on something so seemingly minor? That's one way you can look at this for reads, though you shouldn't ignore the material that Yato & GM have supplied, either.

Hmm I think it's more a case of Zexy trying to get the ball rolling more than anything

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

@RainbowSkittles; I wasn't asking you...that was a quote of Zexy...

 

[Almonds]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

But you vote him because of the fact he didn't. What would it take for you to unvote him, then?

I'll unvote if I have no reason to keep my vote on him.

I didn't vote for RS just for not placing a joke vote. I voted RS for not even placing a joke vote. RS only stated that he was going to wait for more info. Why not place a vote - joke vote or serious vote - and get some reactions, whether they are jokes or not?
@RainbowSkittles;

Is there this much of a difference? It's Day 1 after all, there is no info around.
Well, RS is always like that, it is his meta. He says this anytime, and this had led to him being an easy Day 1 mislynch in the past.
I get your point, indeed it is reactions that you are getting, from me and GliscorMan. What is needed for discussion to begin, that is.

Meta, yes, but if thought the other way around, Skittles could actually be mafia and use meta to make himself look town since he's almost always been mislynched as town. People would be more careful when voting him for similar reasons.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Heh. Originally I had intended my own vote as a joke vote, but when Zexy questioned it a bit, I couldn't resist the urge to start a genuine discussion. That's what I love about D1, the most minor and trivial things can get everyone talking. And now we have reactions and stuff to work on.

Yato's response is interesting, I think, but I can sort of see the reasoning behind it.

Now, though, there's something else I've noticed.

UNVOTE: Yato
VOTE: Zexy

@Zexy; You've consistently stayed in the middle ground throughout every little bit of this fiasco, and all the subsequent ones. You actively post, yet defend everyone equally and don't take any stance of your own. You ask questions, but don't make any convictions. Do you have any comments on this observation?

I ask people questions and discuss to kick things off. You said it yourself, "the most minor and trivial things can get everyone talking. And now we have reactions and stuff to work on.".
This does not mean that I have clear reads on anyone yet. This is why I avoid making convictions this early on unless I am a bit more sure over someone's scumminess.

UNVOTE: Elysion
VOTE: Zexy

To add on to GM's wording, something Zexy did stuck out to me as well. He kept asking for other players thoughts on him, despite the attention being on RS, GM, and Yato. There was no reason for him to do that, and it just seems jumpy.

Using "kept" in this situation is a bit of an over exaggeration in terms of asking people what they thought of him, though, because he only asked once, and that was directed towards me, which was an understandable question, considering how I was preaching about how every opinion is important while not offering my own. And I did use Zexy's towniness/scuminess as an example, which only begged for him to ask, as it does pose the question as to what I think if I'm bringing up "arguments" for/against him.

While his neutrality (something I'm kinda ashamed I didn't notice, haha) is a decent point, I'm not sure that it really deserves a death sentence, especially since, like, at least he's defending at all rather than leaving people to... well, not the wolves, but he could just not make the effort at all and leave it to everyone else, rather than taking it upon himself and eliminating the possibility that the person being accused could screw up in defending themselves somehow, if that makes sense? I guess that can be debunked by saying he's defending his partner or something, but... I mean, he's been making a fair effort the entire time, and it didn't seem to spike in his defenses, if that makes sense? Like, there was no desperation or anything, which I think would be present if he was afraid enough of his partner dying for him to swoop in and defend them, just him stating his opinion, y'know?

I don't think his neutrality is as scummy as it really could be, and so, I don't think this lynch is particularly founded. It's an interesting observation, though, so I do want to hear what he has to say to GM's vote.

This was exactly what I was going to say, Clusiana.
I only asked once, only Clusiana, and only because she was the one who gave two different opinions on my posts. She was a bit neutral with that post, so I asked her to clear her thoughts on me up.

The fact that I am neutral should be a little normal, I just don't have clear reads on someone, this is Day 1. I have done exactly this in lots of previous games (Disney, Birth By Sleep, Futurama, and "another recent one"). As you may also know, I am the kind of person who is always willing to reply to all questions when voted and defend themselves and am not secretive. I don't really protect anyone, just explaining what I think of them.

So no he did not ask just you, and the fact that he felt the need to ask at all is what makes me so suspicious.

I did not ask about JUST me, though. I wanted RainbowSkittles to comment, on everyone who has talked by that point.

Hello, guys! Do I look scummy enough? Please, tell me, because if I do, I will have to lie low more, right?

No, I'm not doing that
Wouldn’t it be blatant?

@Clusiana; He notably didn't put RS under that light, and you just said yourself that he begged you for your opinion on him. Again why would anyone feel the need to do that? Mafia could easily put themselves in limelight to try to look more town.

What do you mean I didn't? He was the one who started it all in a sense, everyone was talking about him, and he did not. That's why I asked him if he could maybe participate by himself as well.

Of course they could, but I just found it good to kick off some discussion. I wouldn't call participating either a scumtell or a towntell, especially that early in the game.

@Clusiana; He notably didn't put RS under that light, and you just said yourself that he begged you for your opinion on him. Again why would anyone feel the need to do that? Mafia could easily put themselves in limelight to try to look more town.

What do you mean I didn't? He was the one who started it all in a sense, everyone was talking about him, and he did not. That's why I asked him if he could maybe participate by himself as well.

Of course they could, but I just found it good to kick off some discussion. I wouldn't call participating either a scumtell or a towntell, especially that early in the game.

I agree that Zexy's neutrality did jump out at me a bit, but I don't think there's enough to vote on him yet. I'd like to hear more from him though.

Well, you haven't posted much either, and here I am, trying to reply at any question you all throw at me. Would you like to ask me something yourself? If not, hope this post satisfies your Zexy-answer needs.

Meta, yes, but if thought the other way around, Skittles could actually be mafia and use meta to make himself look town since he's almost always been mislynched as town. People would be more careful when voting him for similar reasons.

All mafiosi are supposed to use their town meta to their advantage.

 

[Zima]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Thing is, Zexy, no one has to ever ask if they look town. If you're town, there's a pretty high chance you'll be seen as town with little effort. :/

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Thing is, Zexy, no one has to ever ask if they look town. If you're town, there's a pretty high chance you'll be seen as town with little effort. :/

I asked a person who gave two separate but really explicit reads on me. I just felt that "Zexy can be town but can also be mafia", when explained this throughoutly, should be questioned a little.

And as for RainbowSkittles, I did not ask about just me, but everyone who has talked at that point about his non-vote and its reactions.

 

[sharkshocker]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

I feel meta is a bit of a null point when trying to observe people. If they're consistent with their play then they'll be able to act as if they're following their meta regardless of their alignment. The thing is though, if RS's meta consists of playing passively then the possibility of his being mafia should be noted as people might just pass him off and not take notice. On any case a meta of playing passively is hard to get reads from so it's understandable why Yato would put pressure on RS.

Alright, I've had some time to look through the thread. Right now, I'm not finding RainbowSkittles all that suspicious because he always does that in every games he's in-- says he'll come back with reads and yet he rarely does so. Even though that in itself is fairly unhelpful, I don't think it's scummy of him to say so being that he always does it regardless of his alignment. The difference now though is that it's day 1, so saying that is really unnecessarily.

GliscorMan brings up a good point, but I don't think Yato ever demanded RainbowSkittles to make a joke vote. Honestly, if you discount the fact that he says he'll come back later in every game, then on its own it does look scummy. But, given what I said before, I myself am not finding him suspicious. Of course, if he keeps doing that then he's more likely to be a liability to the town and in turn that would make him a good vote candidate.

FoS Momoka
It feels like there's a disconnect between "liability to the town" and "good vote candidate" as you'd expect that they should be lynched if they're hampering the town. Can you explain what you mean on that last part?

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

I ask people questions and discuss to kick things off. You said it yourself, "the most minor and trivial things can get everyone talking. And now we have reactions and stuff to work on.".
This does not mean that I have clear reads on anyone yet. This is why I avoid making convictions this early on unless I am a bit more sure over someone's scumminess.

Yes, you're asking questions. And I appreciate that. However, you're being incredibly reserved when asking said questions. You never once include a vote for pressure, and very rarely (if at all) ask a question that could be construed as an accusation. This is what stands out to me.

The fact that I am neutral should be a little normal, I just don't have clear reads on someone, this is Day 1. I have done exactly this in lots of previous games (Disney, Birth By Sleep, Futurama, and "another recent one"). As you may also know, I am the kind of person who is always willing to reply to all questions when voted and defend themselves and am not secretive. I don't really protect anyone, just explaining what I think of them.

All mafiosi are supposed to use their town meta to their advantage.

Interesting contradiction there, no? You literally counteract your strongest argument in your defense. This appears to be a pretty serious slip-up to me, because it shows that you're getting desperate to focus the attention of the lynch onto someone else, regardless of how logical it is.

Don't get me wrong, D1 logic is always weak at best. But as of right now, you're still the best candidate for a lynch in my opinion.

 

[Zexy]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Yes, you're asking questions. And I appreciate that. However, you're being incredibly reserved when asking said questions. You never once include a vote for pressure, and very rarely (if at all) ask a question that could be construed as an accusation. This is what stands out to me.

Incredibly reserved I am indeed, but I explained that I have no reason to accuse a specific person, I don't have clear reads.

The fact that I am neutral should be a little normal, I just don't have clear reads on someone, this is Day 1. I have done exactly this in lots of previous games (Disney, Birth By Sleep, Futurama, and "another recent one"). As you may also know, I am the kind of person who is always willing to reply to all questions when voted and defend themselves and am not secretive. I don't really protect anyone, just explaining what I think of them.

All mafiosi are supposed to use their town meta to their advantage.

Interesting contradiction there, no? You literally counteract your strongest argument in your defense. This appears to be a pretty serious slip-up to me, because it shows that you're getting desperate to focus the attention of the lynch onto someone else, regardless of how logical it is.

Don't get me wrong, D1 logic is always weak at best. But as of right now, you're still the best candidate for a lynch in my opinion.

You are right on that. The fact that mafiosi do use their meta to their advantage does not mean that townspeople don't do it. Does the fact that I refer on meta mean I am mafia? Well, I am attempting to focus the attention of the lynch onto someone else, because I don't want to get lynched, doesn't it make sense? Problem is, I did not know who to focus on, which ended up on everyone focusing on me...

All D1 logic is weak, mine also. But there is not much I can do about that.

... as the phase update is really soon and I have to somehow save myself, I have to tie the votes. Almost all of the people who currently have one vote are those with a jokevote. I will:

VOTE: Momoka

not really because I find her too suspicious, but out of all the people, she has at least a case going against her, Sharkshocker's post that is.

 

[Peeko]

Re: Gundam SEED Mafia ~ Day 1 - "Its Name: Gundam" ~ 27/5/2014

Vote: No Lynch

Not enough evidence to lynch yet.