Has the Pokemon anime "jumped the sharpedo"?

[JinksChow]

Jumping the Shark - TV Tropes

Jumping the Shark is the moment when an established Long Runner series changes in a significant manner, ranging from a contrived gimmick to a full Retool. This can be the result of circumstance, though it is more often a desperate attempt to …

tvtropes.org

"Jumping the Shark is the moment when an established long-running series changes in a significant manner. This can range from something relatively small, like the introduction of a new gimmick, to something that totally changes the show, like a Genre Shift." - TV Tropes

As the thread title asks, do you think that, regardless of the outcome of the next episode, the Pokemon anime has finally "jumped the sharpedo"? Or has that moment already occured earlier in the Pokemon anime?

 

[Rockapheller]

If anything, the drop of traditional travelling would be that point imho, which was basically the core of the anime.

 

[Greninjaman]

I think it happened after Diamond and Pearl since that is when consistency and continuity seemed to have been thrown out the window.

 

[ii kanji]

I would have said yes during BW, with BW as my 'jumped the shark' moment, but the show recovered and gave us two really good (widely different, but good) series in XY and SM.

However, I feel we have now reached a new low bar. Till PM19 the series has always been at its core a feel-good anime focusing on the positive relationships between the characters and their Pokemon. Even BW had this as its essence. This series however seems to have chucked that sincerity in the bin in favour of becoming the cynical merchandise sales vehicle its critics have always accused it of being. With characteristics such as its pathetic 'episodic format' excuse, Go's unfortunate goal and the Gatchat, it is not even pretending otherwise.

Take for example how clickbait the promotional material has been. I hate it, and the thing I hate most about it is that it's a cheap trick which is working. Even if its just to say 'ugh that's obviously fake', look how much discussion that bullshit episode preview for the Suicune episode has generated? Where is the character development (which lasts longer than a single episode)? Where are the story arcs? Why does Satoshi's established personality keep going on holiday to be replaced by some uncaring fool wearing his skin?

I don't know if this is all executive meddling or maybe Yonemura really is that hapless a series constructor. All I know is that the direction this series has gone in makes it not feel like PokeAni anymore.

 

[Daren]

So, way back the term always referred to the point where a series gets markedly worse, but that definition suggests it's just a major change that often (but not always) marks a decline.

If it's the former I'm not sure it can be called before the series is over-- Johto isn't exactly a highly popular series, for instance, but AG and DP have much better reputations.
If it just refers to a drastic change than it's could be B/W for the continuity drop, or if not than definitely Sun/Moon, regardless of how good one considers it.

I guess from my perspective I'd say it jumped during Johto when the series transitioned from a story to a never ending loop. That's what I think is probably the series' biggest problem and even in the popular series' has never really changed.

This series however seems to have chucked that sincerity in the bin in favour of becoming the cynical merchandise sales vehicle its critics have always accused it of being. With characteristics such as its pathetic 'episodic format' excuse, Go's unfortunate goal and the Gatchat, it is not even pretending otherwise.

It figures the first series in many years where I decide to make a good faith effort to watch every episode once it's available where I live ended up like this.
I am very sorry for calling down this curse.

 

[Johtohfiller]

It's had a lot of ups and downs. The current series is a mix of good and bad that adds up to average IMO.

 

[Nikita Dracovish]

Honestly, and saying this as a Geewunner, it's such a nebulous term for a long-runner that has so many different fans that no one can agree. People think it got shitty when the Orange Islands were a thing, that it was shitty when Misty and/or Brock left, that it was shitty when May joined, that it was shitty when the dub voice actors were changed, that it was shitty when Iris joined, et cetera. There's such a glut of X/Y fans who shit on S/M, and both of whom shit on Journeys, and you know Journeys fans are going to crap on the next seasons when Go leaves.

 

[Greninjaman]

The thing is, there was a consistent growth in terms of character for Ash from Kanto to Sinnoh, as well as continuity. After Sinnoh is when things got ridiculous. As I said before, there was little (if any) continuity. The only continuity between the series was Unova to Kaols since Alexa traveled with Ash to Kalos, but that did not have any impact on the story. Heck, I don't recall Alexa appearing much at all during Kalos. Sure Sun and moon had continuity to the original series thanks to Brock and Misty showing up, but their appearances really didn't impact the story. You could remove those episodes where they appear and nothing would change. Chuck and Lance have appeared in Journeys, with Iris and Gary set to appear as well, but we don't know how much of an impact (if any) on the story they will have.

 

[Islander Princess]

I feel like the anime just kind of ebbs and flows without any real linear consistency at this point. So many different kinds of people watch this show, so the opinions are just as varied. Just as an example I always tend to use: I really didn't like XY, but I know a lot of fans did and hail it as Pokémon's best series. But then I absolutely fell in love with SM (which was very different than any series before it) and it totally reinvigorated my enjoyment of the anime after I had pretty much stopped watching it for a period. And there are plenty of people who hated SM and are very vocal about it. So I personally think the feeling of whether or not the show has jumped the shark is pretty subjective, because different people will react differently to whatever formula changes get thrown at them.

Right now, to me, the anime is probably at one of its lower points. I don't dislike the idea of this current series, but the execution is kind of off (travel between regions not well planned, weird tone that almost always feels too positive regardless of situation, Ash kind of feels neglected, Goh's development is hit and miss, Chloe probably should've been made a protagonist earlier or at least featured more, awful use of Team Rocket after probably their best series, etc.) and I end up feeling pretty bored during a lot of the episodes. It just feels like there's so much more potential in this particular series that isn't being taken advantage of.

But again, I've seen tons of fans who are really enjoying Journeys and probably wouldn't agree with any of those complaints. So, definitely hard to pinpoint if and when it's actually reached that point.

 

[Greninjaman]

I feel like the anime just kind of ebbs and flows without any real linear consistency at this point. So many different kinds of people watch this show, so the opinions are just as varied. Just as an example I always tend to use: I really didn't like XY, but I know a lot of fans did and hail it as Pokémon's best series. But then I absolutely fell in love with SM (which was very different than any series before it) and it totally reinvigorated my enjoyment of the anime after I had pretty much stopped watching it for a period. And there are plenty of people who hated SM and are very vocal about it. So I personally think the feeling of whether or not the show has jumped the shark is pretty subjective, because different people will react differently to whatever formula changes get thrown at them.

Right now, to me, the anime is probably at one of its lower points. I don't dislike the idea of this current series, but the execution is kind of off (travel between regions not well planned, weird tone that almost always feels too positive regardless of situation, Ash kind of feels neglected, Goh's development is hit and miss, Chloe probably should've been made a protagonist earlier or at least featured more, awful use of Team Rocket after probably their best series, etc.) and I end up feeling pretty bored during a lot of the episodes. It just feels like there's so much more potential in this particular series that isn't being taken advantage of.

But again, I've seen tons of fans who are really enjoying Journeys and probably wouldn't agree with any of those complaints. So, definitely hard to pinpoint if and when it's actually reached that point.

Your points are valid as well as true.

 

[Johtoo]

The anime hasn't been the same since Sinnoh ended.

 

[Greninjaman]

The anime hasn't been the same since Sinnoh ended.

I feel the same way. They might as well have created a new Protagonist entirely for Unova, Kalos, ALola, Galar, and so on.

 

[Johtoo]

I feel the same way. They might as well have created a new Protagonist entirely for Unova, Kalos, ALola, Galar, and so on.

I would prefer to keep Ash in the anime, but even I think this is too far. They're literally disrespecting his legacy at this point and one has to ask - what is the point? Why didn't they just finish him in Sinnoh and give him the ending he deserved? Could you imagine (for a moment) that this were Ash's final series and he ended up beating Leon after competiting in a tournament where most of his battles were in the background? Could you imagine that you were invested in his character from day 1 and this is how they decided to end him? I think my frustration doesn't stem from how bad the series is. I don't care about that. But, there are a lot of people who want Ash to get the ending he deserved and this isn't it. Not even in the slightest.

 

[Greninjaman]

I would prefer to keep Ash in the anime, but even I think this is too far. They're literally disrespecting his legacy at this point and one has to ask - what is the point? Why didn't they just finish him in Sinnoh and give him the ending he deserved? Could you imagine (for a moment) that this were Ash's final series and he ended up beating Leon after competiting in a tournament where most of his battles were in the background? Could you imagine that you were invested in his character from day 1 and this is how they decided to end him? I think my frustration doesn't stem from how bad the series is. I don't care about that. But, there are a lot of people who want Ash to get the ending he deserved and this isn't it. Not even in the slightest.

Yeah. Makes sense. Ash should have been replaced after Sinnoh (Maybe even Johto or Kanto). Especially since he had growth as a trainer and a person from Kanto to Sinnoh.

 

[Johtoo]

Yeah. Makes sense. Ash should have been replaced after Sinnoh (Maybe even Johto or Kanto). Especially since he had growth as a trainer and a person from Kanto to Sinnoh.

Also, don't get me started on how the writers have treated team rocket.

 

[Yami-no-Game]

It jumped the shark many times and while people will excuse that because the show is still airing I think there's a lot of indication that the show isn't as popular as it was even just 7 or 8 years ago.

For me the anime jumped the shark when that Takeshi Shudo guy supported the idea of dropping Misty to save TR from possibly getting the boot. It's not even that I like Misty more than them (I was glad that May got introduced), it's just that the thought of TR sticking around because of Takeshi Shudo's bias for TR seemed really selfish especially when you look back and realise that the guy wasn't part of the writing staff after Johto anyways, so what was the point of him wanting to keep TR when he was no longer going to be around to write for the show?

 

[Insanish Danish]

I would have said yes during BW, with BW as my 'jumped the shark' moment, but the show recovered and gave us two really good (widely different, but good) series in XY and SM.

However, I feel we have now reached a new low bar. Till PM19 the series has always been at its core a feel-good anime focusing on the positive relationships between the characters and their Pokemon. Even BW had this as its essence. This series however seems to have chucked that sincerity in the bin in favour of becoming the cynical merchandise sales vehicle its critics have always accused it of being. With characteristics such as its pathetic 'episodic format' excuse, Go's unfortunate goal and the Gatchat, it is not even pretending otherwise.

Take for example how clickbait the promotional material has been. I hate it, and the thing I hate most about it is that it's a cheap trick which is working. Even if its just to say 'ugh that's obviously fake', look how much discussion that bullshit episode preview for the Suicune episode has generated? Where is the character development (which lasts longer than a single episode)? Where are the story arcs? Why does Satoshi's established personality keep going on holiday to be replaced by some uncaring fool wearing his skin?

I don't know if this is all executive meddling or maybe Yonemura really is that hapless a series constructor. All I know is that the direction this series has gone in makes it not feel like PokeAni anymore.

Thank you for so masterfully putting into words exactly why I have not been able to keep up with Journeys (I think the last episode I watched was like...the 7th? The Hoenn one?). I honestly haven't been able to articulate exactly why it is I can't stand it, but this post sums it up completely.

Anyway, I would certainly not point out Journeys as the sole time the Pokemon anime has "jumped the shark" - any show that's been around as long as this one is going to inevitably have multiple examples - but this is the first time I really, truly felt like the Pokemon anime was changing, and not in a good way. Even in XY, which up until now was my least favorite series, I did still feel like the show had heart, it just wasn't my personal preference. But this...is different entirely. This is the first time that I have almost stopped caring about what was happening in the show completely (I was excited when the SM group returned, and I'm also excited about Gary and Iris's return, but that's about it). It may not be the first time the show has ever jumped the shark but to me it feels like the first time where it's been this bad. I'm still holding out a small bit of hope that this series will pick up soon, but sadly I'm not really holding my breath either.

 

[Johtoo]

It jumped the shark many times and while people will excuse that because the show is still airing I think there's a lot of indication that the show isn't as popular as it was even just 7 or 8 years ago.

For me the anime jumped the shark when that Takeshi Shudo guy supported the idea of dropping Misty to save TR from possibly getting the boot. It's not even that I like Misty more than them (I was glad that May got introduced), it's just that the thought of TR sticking around because of Takeshi Shudo's bias for TR seemed really selfish especially when you look back and realise that the guy wasn't part of the writing staff after Johto anyways, so what was the point of him wanting to keep TR when he was no longer going to be around to write for the show?

I think it's painfully obvious that the anime has declined in popularity in Japan. It's probably the reason why journeys budget looks so low or how replacing VA's is becoming more common. They obviously can't afford to do what they were once doing.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I think it's painfully obvious that the anime has declined in popularity in Japan. It's probably the reason why journeys budget looks so low or how replacing VA's is becoming more common. They obviously can't afford to do what they were once doing.

Respectfully, I have seen you claim that there was a dramatic decline in ratings and popularity with the series in Japan a few times now. Do you happen to have a source for this?

 

[Johtoo]

Respectfully, I have seen you claim that there was a dramatic decline in ratings and popularity with the series in Japan a few times now. Do you happen to have a source for this?

This was my first time? Unless you're talking about the movies. For reference, the Sinnoh movies made between 45-55 million dollars. The most recent movie only made 23 million dollars in Japan. I'm not counting Koko, because that's a little harsh. And I know tv ratings are not everything, but Pokemon Diamond and Pearl premiered to a 9.5 rating while journeys couldn't even make the top 10 rankings. I'm sure the anime is still popular, but the movies are only making less than half of what they're making in 2010 and it doesn't even appear in the top 10 anymore. It's clear there is a decline ever, but it's obviously still popular. Japan is also going through a declining population, so kids properties like Pokemon will continue to decline because of the population shift. I personally think we'll never see the anime as popular as it was during the 2006-2012 period again.