Hisuian Forms and Evolutions Discussion

[techitisJ]

I'm seriously thriiled they're adding more new Pokemon and regional variants. Hisuian Growlithe is EVERYTHING. Its just adorable and I'm really excited to see how a Fire/Rock Arcanine will look. Now the real question is will these Pokemon be available in the future?

I actually think there's a possibility we'll be able to see these Hisuian forms and evolutions in modern Sinnoh. There are those Pokemon Hideaways that can be accessed through the Sinnoh underground in BDSP, and I think I recall the Presents mentioning something about rare Pokemon being able to be found in these Hideaways. Maybe these ancient Pokemon went to live in these Hideaways?

If we don't see them there, because who knows if we will, I could see them making an appearance in a region that has a similarly harsh climate to past Sinnoh. It wouldn't be too hard to explain in-universe either. These Pokemon adapted similarly in these other regions, or perhaps they moved or were moved by people to a harsher climate if they weren't adapting properly to the changing environment.

Whether or not we see them catchable in the modern Sinnoh games, I think it would be really neat if we saw a reference to them in BDSP, whether it's a character talking about them or some sort of relic from Sinnoh's past about them.

 

[Cainhxrst]

I think the main reason I think we'll actually see more new variants/pokemon beyond what we've seen today is because it'd just feel . . . strange? if growlithe line and braviary were the only pokemon that grew differently in the hisu region, it would stick out badly imo

 

[WyndonCalling]

I'm supremely hyped; species based on Japanese cultural tropes have always been present in just about every 'dex but Hisui provides an opportunity to go in hard on this, just as Galar did. I hope that the new evolutions aren't contingent on a prior regional form, but it's been so, so long since this has happened for anything other than an Eeveelution.

Pinsir love plz

 

[Spurs1819]

When is Gen 9 due to be out? End of 2022 or 2023?

Is this the first time there's been new Pokemon released every year between generations? (I guess this is already incorrect since Arceus is out in 2022 and not 2021).

If so, this is probably going to be standard practice. Someone said that GF/Nintendo intend to release a game every year - is this true?

Because then you can clearly see now why they got rid of NatDex and created Home (which sucks, they really need to make it better)

In fact, they should probably really revamp how the NatDex is presented/organized since no game will have a complete one. Home is a start, but is piss poor still lacking functionality and has terrible UI.

Given how big the franchise is and how many spin-offs they now have, it does make sense to have a constant new Pokemon being added instead of one dump every 3 years. Interesting to see how it will grow and change from here.

 

[TheElderKing]

I hope Gen 9 would be released in their classic timeframe, so Fall 2023. Fall 2022 would be too close, in my opinion, and I think the longer timeframe between the two releases could help them.

Other then hopefully helping with the technical and graphic issues, with Legends still has (but I wasn’t expecting a graphic overhaul form SwSh), a Gen 9 game should be more complex to develop, as they have to create more cities, as well as trainer battles.

 

[Johnny Boy]

Gen 5 has been getting a lot of love this generation with regional forms. In terms of who could be next in line for a form, Mandibuzz would be an obvious choice to go with Braviary.

 

[Spurs1819]

I hope Gen 9 would be released in their classic timeframe, so Fall 2023. Fall 2022 would be too close, in my opinion, and I think the longer timeframe between the two releases could help them.

Other then hopefully helping with the technical and graphic issues, with Legends still has (but I wasn’t expecting a graphic overhaul form SwSh), a Gen 9 game should be more complex to develop, as they have to create more cities, as well as trainer battles.

To be fair the classic gap was 3.

RG-3-GS
GS-3-RS
RS-4-DP
DP-4-BW
BW-3-XY
XY-3-SM
SM-3-SwSh

Maybe covid would change that. Then again, it doesn't seem likely that BDSP or PLA will have any DLCs so having a nearly 2 year gap between PLA and Gen 9 wouldn't be normal for them I think?

 

[TheElderKing]

To be fair the classic gap was 3.

RG-3-GS
GS-3-RS
RS-4-DP
DP-4-BW
BW-3-XY
XY-3-SM
SM-3-SwSh

Maybe covid would change that. Then again, it doesn't seem likely that BDSP or PLA will have any DLCs so having a nearly 2 year gap between PLA and Gen 9 wouldn't be normal for them I think?

Sorry, with classic I meant the Fall release date, compared to PLA being released in January.
I'd actually love if Gen 9 is released in 2024, but without dlcs or explansion, in my opinion, being likely for either BDSP or PLA, I doubt they'd miss a full year.

I do hope that I'm wrong, and they'd take a year off, as in that case, there are more chances that we could see substantial technical improvements. A Fall 2024 release would mean that they'll have almost 3 years to develop a new game without working on something else in the meantime, which is something that affects negatively development. Between Gen 3 and 5, it was fine releasing remakes because the gap between each Gen was 4 years, so you'd have at least 2 years to work on the following game.

Since Gen 5, the gap between Gen became shorter, and with a remake (or sequel in the gap between Gen 5 and 6), midgen, it means you got less time to develop the new game...and with the passage on 3D things became also more complex. SwSh was even more affected by that, given that we got a new game basically every year from SM to SwSh, with USUM and LGPE being developed.

Working on dlcs possibly decreased the workload compared to a full game, but I woulnd't be sure by how much, and the fact that COVID struck right in the middle of those likely countered any positive effect that choosing dlcs over a full game would've provided. Thankfully they decided to leave the DP remakes on a different studio. I think that regardless of the artstyle, this is the way to go for the future.

Again, I won't hold much hope on a full year off Pokèmon games in 2023 (unless they'd make a BW remake, developed by a different studio...but it's too soon, in my opinion, to have that), but it's something that would benefit the franchise greatly, in my opinion.

 

[Dizzard]

I actually think there's a possibility we'll be able to see these Hisuian forms and evolutions in modern Sinnoh. There are those Pokemon Hideaways that can be accessed through the Sinnoh underground in BDSP, and I think I recall the Presents mentioning something about rare Pokemon being able to be found in these Hideaways. Maybe these ancient Pokemon went to live in these Hideaways?

If we don't see them there, because who knows if we will, I could see them making an appearance in a region that has a similarly harsh climate to past Sinnoh. It wouldn't be too hard to explain in-universe either. These Pokemon adapted similarly in these other regions, or perhaps they moved or were moved by people to a harsher climate if they weren't adapting properly to the changing environment.

Whether or not we see them catchable in the modern Sinnoh games, I think it would be really neat if we saw a reference to them in BDSP, whether it's a character talking about them or some sort of relic from Sinnoh's past about them.

The Crown Tundra actually has "extinct" Pokemon wandering around in the wild.

I think people get too caught up in the integrity of the Pokemon timeline/lore. Fossil Pokemon being catchable in the Crown Tundra pretty much shows that Game Freak aren't that worried about what makes sense.

Plus, even outside of the possibility that these forms aren't really extinct we have a Pokemon that can travel in time and portals opening up to extradimensional worlds. A portal opening to the past where you could catch extinct pokemon/forms isn't outside the realm of possibility. (and as I said earlier, Game Freak didn't even worry about going that far to explain it, they just made the fossil Pokemon regular catchable Pokemon in the Crown Tundra)

I suppose this doesn't say they'll appear in modern Sinnoh in a future game, but I don't think there's anything stopping them from showing up again someday.

 

[KirbyBulba737]

I think that while Red Stripe Basculin evolves into Basculegion, Blue Stripe Baculin might evolve into a water/ice pokèmon (The lore could be that Blue Stripe Basculin School suffer less losses compared to Red Stripe Schools and so there aren't enough souls to evolve in basculegion, and instead the Blue Stripes evolve in the cold and become part Ice.)

 

[Eeveely]

Quick question if you transfer a pikachu to SM/USUM and evolve it in alola does it become an alolan raichu? Cuz i know alolan pikachus transferred into SwSh will evolve to normal raichu

If yes then I can totally see the starters having hisuian evolutions, the lore around them is pretty vague and flexible imo

 

[TheElderKing]

Quick question if you transfer a pikachu to SM/USUM and evolve it in alola does it become an alolan raichu? Cuz i know alolan pikachus transferred into SwSh will evolve to normal raichu

If yes then I can totally see the starters having hisuian evolutions, the lore around them is pretty vague and flexible imo

The situation is different. What you’re describing for SwSh and possibly SM/USUM is a technical limitation of the games not recognizing the origin of said Pikachu, but they still evolve in Alolan Raichu in Alola, because in that region they evolve as such, and the ones transferred in Galar evolve in normal Raichu because in Galar they evolve normally.

In Legends, from what it’s said about Lavanton, Cyndaquil, Rowlet and Oshawott aren’t present in the wild in Hisui. In this case, there isn’t technical limitation to the games not recognizing in full the region the Pokémon are from (as for Alolan Pikachu if transferred to Galar), but the fact the Pokémon in question doesn’t exist in Hisui to begin with.

Again, GF could very well not care about this and have different evolutions/forms for the starters, but it’s still be incorrect to call them Hisuian forms, as they didn’t evolve differently based on this region.

 

[Eeveely]

The situation is different. What you’re describing for SwSh and possibly SM/USUM is a technical limitation of the games not recognizing the origin of said Pikachu, but they still evolve in Alolan Raichu in Alola, because in that region they evolve as such, and the ones transferred in Galar evolve in normal Raichu because in Galar they evolve normally.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the games can recognize the original game a pokemon is from since it shows a mark(like a clover if it's from gen7 and a pentagon from gen6) so the devs could totally use that to choose which form it evolves into, plus, an alolan-born pikachu can evolve into normal raichu if it's in the ultra space, so it lines up with what we know about them being an evolution having the pokemon adapt to the region it's in rather than basically being hereditary (again correct me if I'm wrong my memory is a bit foggy about this stuff)
It's still a possibility that doesn't contradict the already-existant lore imo

 

[TheElderKing]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure the games can recognize the original game a pokemon is from since it shows a mark(like a clover if it's from gen7 and a pentagon from gen6) so the devs could totally use that to choose which form it evolves into, plus, an alolan-born pikachu can evolve into normal raichu if it's in the ultra space, so it lines up with what we know about them being an evolution having the pokemon adapt to the region it's in rather than basically being hereditary (again correct me if I'm wrong my memory is a bit foggy about this stuff)
It's still a possibility that doesn't contradict the already-existant lore imo

If you’re right, then it’s an oversight from GF, or maybe it’s due to the fact that Alolan Raichu wasn’t planned to be released right away in SwSh.

Even it’s due to an adaption on the region they found themselves in, and not an hereditary thing, though, it changes little in regards of Legends’ starters. Alola influences Pikachu from other regions to
evolve into Alolan Raichu because that particular evolutions originated from there, but in Hisui there aren’t Cyndaquil, Rowlet or Oshawott in the wild. They’d the first to
be present in the region, and evolve in new forms that would be called Hisuian, for little reason. Regardless if the reason for the different form is adaption of hereditary, it’d still have taken the Pokémon specie centuries to gain the new form in reaction to the different environment.

 

[TheElderKing]

Unless the situation is different for Pokémon which entire line evolved differently in a region, like Vulpix, which would’ve taken time to change in the Alolan version, and Pokémon that only have the evolution being different, like Pikachu. But I don’t think there is anything indicating that the two work differently.

 

[Esserise]

A portal opening to the past where you could catch extinct pokemon/forms isn't outside the realm of possibility. (and as I said earlier, Game Freak didn't even worry about going that far to explain it, they just made the fossil Pokemon regular catchable Pokemon in the Crown Tundra)

You have to do some reading between the lines to notice it, but that actually is how they explained the fossil mons in Crown Tundra.

 

[blitzle stan]

I think the main reason I think we'll actually see more new variants/pokemon beyond what we've seen today is because it'd just feel . . . strange? if growlithe line and braviary were the only pokemon that grew differently in the hisu region, it would stick out badly imo

Agreed- unlike Alola or Galar where it wasn’t weird to only have a handful of regional variants because there were also so many brand new Pokémon, this game will feel weird if there are only around 10 Hisuian variants. They had to have planned for this game to be coming out only a few months after BDSP for a while now, meaning they know most people will have just played with all the Pokémon in Sinnoh. Adding in non-Sinnoh lines will help differentiate, but still… L:A is being marketed like a huge, main series game. People expect to find brand new things in main series games. Only having around 10 would be a miss.

 

[Puddle]

Braviary has been among my favourite Pokemon ever since Black and White came out, but I think I actually like its Hisuian form even more. It'll be a mainstay of my Legends team, for sure.

 

[Eeveely]

Unless the situation is different for Pokémon which entire line evolved differently in a region, like Vulpix, which would’ve taken time to change in the Alolan version, and Pokémon that only have the evolution being different, like Pikachu. But I don’t think there is anything indicating that the two work differently.

If I'm reading this right, what you mean is that for these normal-to-regional evolutions to occur, it's required that the process of evolution happens(as in the irl meaning) so that the pokemon would basically have like dna of both forms and which one gets "unlocked" through pokemon evolution depends on the region (I am not a scientist this is just the best way I thought of to explain this don't think much about it)
While that does make total sense and is a likely explanation, there is still a chance that it isn't the case, since for example the normal koffing to galarian weezing evo is explained in the shield dex entry as "during a time when droves of factories fouled the air with pollution, Weezing changed into this form for some reason." wether it's a faster version of the irl concept of evolution, making the koffing capable of evolving into either form depending on the air toxins, or that each individual koffing just learns to do that by being exposed to air toxins isn't specified(though the latter is more likely imo especially with marowak and exeggutor, or maybe it's different from species to species who knows lmao)

So if they do give the starters' evolutions their own regional forms, they could easily come up with a logical expalnation that doesn't contradict previouly set lore

 

[Puddle]

I think it's really neat how Wyrdeer, Basculegion and Hisuian Braviary were, it seems, designed to help the player travel over land, water and in the sky respectively. I'm pretty sure that's why the three of them were revealed together.