HM Moves That You Hate Most

[Rainami]

People insulting Defog need to realize that it's been buffed to be actually useful in competitive play. Sure, it sucked in Generation IV, but I'd quite like for it to regain its HM status. It would be better as a TM, but either one works.

Um, what? No clue what you're talking about, since Geosenge Town is visited before Reflection Cave, and there's no secret areas of Reflection Cave that lead anywhere besides Rt. 11 and Shalour City. Also, the only part of Geosenge that's blocked off is Team Flare HQ, and you don't need to go to Reflection Cave for that, you just go to the northwest corner of town.

During the certain event that occurs in Geosenge town, the entrances are, to my knowledge, totally blocked off. It seems Fly is required to get there...never really thought about that. How weird.

Oh, right, the worst HM move. Cut, because at least Rock Smash's defense lowering side effect can be useful. And at least Flash wasn't just a generic attacking move.

 

[Osprey]

Cut never bothered me that much. On my very first file, I had it on my Charizard, all the way to lv. 100, and I never got mad about it. I was a higher-PP lower-power move to clear opponents that weren't worth the time out of the way. The HM's I hated were Rock Smash (weak move with unreliable Defense-debuffing), Defog (waste of a move slot, and let's not get started on what happens if you decide to NOT use it...) and Whirlpool (very, very weak move with unreliable accuracy).

 

[ArvAl]

Oh, right, the worst HM move. Cut, because at least Rock Smash's defense lowering side effect can be useful. And at least Flash wasn't just a generic attacking move.

Oh come on! It's sometime useful for this HM on a battle. Not bad if you're already know how to use it though.

Cut never bothered me that much. On my very first file, I had it on my Charizard, all the way to lv. 100, and I never got mad about it. I was a higher-PP lower-power move to clear opponents that weren't worth the time out of the way. The HM's I hated were Rock Smash (weak move with unreliable Defense-debuffing), Defog (waste of a move slot, and let's not get started on what happens if you decide to NOT use it...) and Whirlpool (very, very weak move with unreliable accuracy).

There! Speaking the same language!

 

[henrymidfields]

Um, what? No clue what you're talking about, since Geosenge Town is visited before Reflection Cave, and there's no secret areas of Reflection Cave that lead anywhere besides Rt. 11 and Shalour City. Also, the only part of Geosenge that's blocked off is Team Flare HQ, and you don't need to go to Reflection Cave for that, you just go to the northwest corner of town.

During the certain event that occurs in Geosenge town, the entrances are, to my knowledge, totally blocked off. It seems Fly is required to get there...never really thought about that. How weird.

At least it's not annoying like having to use Strength/Rock Smash/Waterfall/Surf/Rock Climb to get to/through a cave/hidden location. You only need Fly for that particular moment of getting into town, and you land right in front of the Pokémon Centre.

 

[ArvAl]

It's kinda annoying when we use Fly to land on every PokéCenter instead on the other place and I've never understand why are they doing about this

 

[Battaman]

This really needs to be taken by generation.
Gen1:
Flash - try walking through Rock Tunnel (or getting Lugia in GSC) w/o Flash.
Cut, it's just bad
Strength, Surf and Fly are cool, remember this generation got awesome TMs like Water Gun and Teleport and many pokemon learn about 10 moves via level up.

Gen2:
Flash, same as above.
Whirlpool, 15pw/70acc, taking 1/16 of max health. Lord it's bad.
Cut again.
Waterfall, it's just a worse Surf.
Strength became a tad more annoying since Return is just better.
Surf and Fly are still cool.

Gen3:
Rock Smash, so, so weak.
Cut again.
Waterfall, still just a worse Surf, even worse when taking doubles into account.
Dive is annoying in battles for the same reason, but underwater is cool.
Flash is much less annoying some I can now see if I walk into a wall.
Surf, Fly and Strength is still the same as Gen 2

Gen 4:
Defog, it might not be necessary for navigation, but if you don't use it you have to deal with fog, in fact, that you don't need it makes it just so much more annoying.
Waterfall is much better now that it's physical.
The rest as before.

Gen 5:
Dunno, don't remember if I used any HMs.

Gen6:
Cut still goes strong, but the rest are not so bad anymore.

 

[Fairy Ice Ricky]

The only HM move I currently dislike is Cut, for reasons already stated (combination of low attack power and imperfect accuracy, plus its connection an annoying overworld barrier). Prior to Gen V, it was at least a nice replacement for Tackle since statistically it was always stronger, but once Game Freak decided to buff Tackle, Cut just kinda flailed around in its suckiness. I also don't understand why cut trees couldn't stay permanently cut, like what they did with Strength starting in Gen V. (But at least the cut trees look more appropriate in Gen VI.)

Flash and Defog were annoying when they were HMs (now that Flash is a TM and Defog received a buff, I don't mind them). Rock Smash was annoying when it had a base power of 20 and wasn't boosted by Technician. Whirlpool, Rock Climb, and Dive have cool overworld purposes, but they're too weak (relatively speaking for Rock Climb and Dive, compared to Strength and Waterfall, respectively). All the other HM moves were good for their power or usefulness.

 

[Sakuraa]

My least favorites are Flash and Cut. In battle they're totally useless and outclassed by other moves. Cut can be okay for when you get it, normally at the beginning of the game, but it wears out quickly and there are still better moves. It also hasn't been necessary to complete the games other than the Kanto games, iirc. Also pretty minor, but I always found it stupid that the only way to destroy these trees was to cut them down and not be able to burn them or go around them or anything else. Flash is totally useless since you can get through dark locations like Rock Tunnel perfectly fine without it.

 

[GhostFingers]

I think we should actually assign HMs as non-Normal types just so that we can use them for super-effective damage.

Cut: Steel-type (thus super-effective to Rock, Fairy, etc), 100% Accuracy.

I'd like to see (as i mentioned in a different thread) Cut's overworld attribute become merged with Fury Cutter. My logic is as follows: Cut > small trees, bug > grass. Also Fury cutter in the early game wouldn't be OP, since it takes turns to power up.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

I use cut a lot in battle if only just for pp wearing if I'm close to using struggle, other than that, it's mainly used for HM slaves in the field and reducing wild encounters in the tall grass in the case of the first three gens
flash at least had more of use in the field of gen I and II, but since gen III made it a small circle of light rather than no light, it pretty useless. (defog is useless everywhere)
strength is useful in battle and in the field
whirlpool has no use except tactical wins but since being burned and poisoned does the same thing and can last longer...
waterfall is pretty useful in battle, and it gets you to new spots for item hunting
dive and fly are useful in battle. but only fly is useful in the field unlike dive and it's tendency to be used in sidequests(dive's only good use in the field is for reaching sootopolis and the aforementioned sidequests).
surf is the best in my opinion. hard to miss, easy to execute, water type, gets you to EVERYWHERE the game needs you to go at some point. etc.
rock smash is only good in the field and nothing else.

 

[garrison-san]

Surf WAS a great battle move in earlier gens, but I've become much more hesitant to use it since Gen IV, when they made it an ally-harming move in double battles. Now I would actually say that Waterfall has the edge, at least when it's a STAB move.

Cut is easily the most annoying HM move, IMO - particularly in Gen II where it just made going back and forth between Goldenrod City and Azalea Town in order to collect pokeballs from Kurt all the more fiddly. It's frankly not a move that I'd want to inflict upon any of my active team, and I never liked the concept of a HM slave (on top of everything else they just take up space).

 

[henrymidfields]

This really needs to be taken by generation.
Gen1:
Flash - try walking through Rock Tunnel (or getting Lugia in GSC) w/o Flash.
Cut, it's just bad
Strength, Surf and Fly are cool

...

Gen 4:
Defog, it might not be necessary for navigation, but if you don't use it you have to deal with fog, in fact, that you don't need it makes it just so much more annoying.
Waterfall is much better now that it's physical.

Thanks for reminding me about Gen 1 Rock Tunnel! That was so unnavigable - you couldn't even see your PC, let alone anything else! And if I remember correctly, I don't think I was the menu (after pressing start) was really hard to see too. And yeah, Waterfall being physical was a great thing - now I can utilise my high Attack stat for my Froakie.

I think defog actually removes entry hazards now - which thankfully makes it a more useful move.

 

[Still Probably Modio]

Rock Smash and Cut are without a doubt my least favourite. The others I can deal with, but just... these moves are literally useless in a battle. I'm fine teaching my water Pokemon Surf or Waterfall, or giving my others Strenght or Rock Climb or whatever, but sheesh, I really dislike Rock Smash and Cut.

 

[garrison-san]

This really needs to be taken by generation.
Gen1:
Flash - try walking through Rock Tunnel (or getting Lugia in GSC) w/o Flash.
Cut, it's just bad
Strength, Surf and Fly are cool

...

Gen 4:
Defog, it might not be necessary for navigation, but if you don't use it you have to deal with fog, in fact, that you don't need it makes it just so much more annoying.
Waterfall is much better now that it's physical.

Thanks for reminding me about Gen 1 Rock Tunnel! That was so unnavigable - you couldn't even see your PC, let alone anything else! And if I remember correctly, I don't think I was the menu (after pressing start) was really hard to see too.

In my experience it was perfectly possible to navigate through Rock Tunnel without using Flash, particularly in later playthroughs when I was familiar with with the layout of the tunnel. Personally, I preferred "feeling" my way through the tunnel to permanently sacrificing a move slot for a single obstacle.

 

[MachDragonX]

Surf, Waterfall, and Fly are easily the best HMs. Dive is okay, but redundant with and not as good as Waterfall. The rest aren't so good.

Unlike a lot of other posters here, I don't hate Cut. Back in the first generation I almost always chose Bulbasaur as my starter and wound up teaching it Cut. It did decent damage at the time and served as a reliable replacement for Tackle early in the game. Move pools weren't expansive and it had good utility so I never resented it.

I was never impressed with Strength in battle. Maybe because I used to have a poor understanding of how the Attack and Special stats worked in the early gens, or because it was a Normal-type move and never got STAB on any Pokemon I used in game.

Flash, Rock Smash, Whirlpool, and Defog are the bottom of the barrel IMO. Flash was borderline useless from the start, Rock Smash was cool as a TM in generation 2 but awful once it became required to complete the games starting in generation 3, Whirlpool was unnecessary and had awful BP, and you didn't even need Defog in generation 4.

 

[GhostFingers]

I never liked the concept of a HM slave (on top of everything else they just take up space).

Well, they should have added more pokes per squad when they had the chance. According to research of older gens, they were thinking of changing the number of pokemon you're allowed to hold and the moves per poke when developing gen III. Sadly this didn't happen. Being able to carry for example 9 instead of 6 would alleviate some of the pressure from move-slaving.

And yeah, Waterfall being physical was a great thing - now I can utilise my high Attack stat for my Froakie.

Waterfall works great for Gyarados and Bibarel in my experience, as well as any water poke with roughly equal at and sp at

 

[LordSeliph]

Cut, Rock Smash, and Strength

 

[Bolt Strike]

Well, they should have added more pokes per squad when they had the chance. According to research of older gens, they were thinking of changing the number of pokemon you're allowed to hold and the moves per poke when developing gen III. Sadly this didn't happen. Being able to carry for example 9 instead of 6 would alleviate some of the pressure from move-slaving.

Having more than 6 Pokemon would make battling too easy, because then it's easier to cover your bases. With 6 Pokemon, you have to put a lot of thought into your team to make sure you can deal with anything they throw at you. I doubt they'll change that.

I think the best way to fix HMs would be to have a separate moveset for field moves. So for instance, if you want a Pokemon that can use Cut, you can teach it to your Pokemon without having to get rid of one of your battle moves. You could also put one move on both movesets for the good ones like Surf, Waterfall, and Fly that you might want to use for both battling and field moves.

 

[Norzan]

Well, they should have added more pokes per squad when they had the chance. According to research of older gens, they were thinking of changing the number of pokemon you're allowed to hold and the moves per poke when developing gen III. Sadly this didn't happen. Being able to carry for example 9 instead of 6 would alleviate some of the pressure from move-slaving.

Having more than 6 Pokemon would make battling too easy, because then it's easier to cover your bases. With 6 Pokemon, you have to put a lot of thought into your team to make sure you can deal with anything they throw at you. I doubt they'll change that.

I think the best way to fix HMs would be to have a separate moveset for field moves. So for instance, if you want a Pokemon that can use Cut, you can teach it to your Pokemon without having to get rid of one of your battle moves. You could also put one move on both movesets for the good ones like Surf, Waterfall, and Fly that you might want to use for both battling and field moves.

I played a certain pokemon game (can't say what it is because it's against the rules), but in that game there are items that do the same thing as the HM moves (Machete=Cut, Boat=Surf and so forth) and they are key items, i think this would solve the issues with the HM moves.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Well, they should have added more pokes per squad when they had the chance. According to research of older gens, they were thinking of changing the number of pokemon you're allowed to hold and the moves per poke when developing gen III. Sadly this didn't happen. Being able to carry for example 9 instead of 6 would alleviate some of the pressure from move-slaving.

Having more than 6 Pokemon would make battling too easy, because then it's easier to cover your bases. With 6 Pokemon, you have to put a lot of thought into your team to make sure you can deal with anything they throw at you. I doubt they'll change that.

I think the best way to fix HMs would be to have a separate moveset for field moves. So for instance, if you want a Pokemon that can use Cut, you can teach it to your Pokemon without having to get rid of one of your battle moves. You could also put one move on both movesets for the good ones like Surf, Waterfall, and Fly that you might want to use for both battling and field moves.

I played a certain pokemon game (can't say what it is because it's against the rules), but in that game there are items that do the same thing as the HM moves (Machete=Cut, Boat=Surf and so forth) and they are key items, i think this would solve the issues with the HM moves.

They probably won't do that, HMs will probably stay moves because human-Pokemon bond and stuff.