How bad was the Johto team really?

[Pokedk]

I must say that Ash's Johto Team was one of my fave-teams

Pikachu: Of course
Chikorita/Bayleef: Loved the fact that it didnt evolve to Meganium. This Pokémon had personality and it was FEMALE! And the only one of Ash's Johto Pokémon to evolve
Cyndaquil: It also had personality. It is so made for Ash and if it had evolved I would be sad, cus it was just soo cute and.
Totodile: Energetic Pokémon with lots of personality too. I really wanted it to evolve because Ash should get a stronger water type than Kingler.
Noctowl: Finally! A psychic type to Ash. AND it was an evolved Pokémon. How often does Ash catch an evolution? SHINY evolution that is.

Heracross: I was so surprices. I did'nt see it come. A big bug XD... But hey it was strong and he did not have it for long. But boy it is a good Pokémon.
Phanpy: Ash's first ground type. Ash's first baby Pokémon... This was'nt the best choise to him, but I guess it was okay.


I think that Ash's future teams was doll. The Hoenn-team sucked. It was so predicted and I did not see the big personalities.
And his Sinnoh-team. The only surprice was his Gligar but when it evolved it was back to the same rutine as before.

 

[Cybersai]

I think that Ash's future teams was doll. The Hoenn-team sucked. It was so predicted and I did not see the big personalities.
And his Sinnoh-team. The only surprice was his Gligar but when it evolved it was back to the same rutine as before.

So you're saying the future teams did not have personality, yet the Johto team did? Noctowl had no personality to speak of, Cynda's only personality was trying to get its flame lit (if that counts) and Totodile dancing is not a personality, just a quirk. Bayleef had a sweet personality though.

Saying the Johto roster had personality and the Hoenn or Sinnoh teams didn't is pretty ridiculous. In Sinnoh Turtwig has no real personality, but the others do. Corphish was Totodile done RIGHT, it was actually funny and had a personality, unlike Totodile's dancing. Sceptile and Chimchar have no personality? Torkoal and Buizel don't either according to you? Are we watching the same series?

And how are these teams predictable? Giving Ash all the starters again was boring and predictable, giving him different Pokemon like Hoenn/Sinnoh did was quite surprising. I never would have imagined Ash would get a Glalie or Gliscor, or that he'd get a Corphish instead of Mudkip. Or that Ash would evolve most of his Pokemon.

 

[Nomura]

Are you trying to say that i'm lying because if that what you are saying then you are the one with out any words of logic and is a much annoying fan then what you said about me. so you want proof well here it is cyndaquil defeated a sandslash in battle with that trainer and then he did battle scyther in the gym battle ,and defeated that gym leader steelix in battle and he also battle really good against that dewgong in the pryce gym battle,and he also defeated a exeggutor in the johto league.totodile beaten a kingdra and a charizard and that sneasel in the johto league,and bayleef brougt down that machoke in that gym battle with chuck and took down houndoom in battle. well that's all i can think of but there's all of your proof if that's not enough proof for you then i don't know what to say for you.

Maybe I should have clarified. Use proof that has not been mentioned. We are all acknoweledgeing the good things his johto team did. The things is, I can name plenty more things that his other teams did that made them better.

If you want examples you can aks...but you'll find plenty through this thread. The things is, we are not saying they suck, we are just saying that compared to his other teams, they aren't as good.

I mean, you mentioned how totodile beat a charizard. Glalie did the same thing, but it had a type advantage...far more impressive. You mentioned bayleefs win against machoke and houndoom. Well what about treecko's win against Hariyama and then one of Flannery's pokemon...both a fighting and fire type like bayleef had to deal with but it was not evolved which makes it that much better. You also mentioned cyndaquil...well chimchar beat Paul's Ursaring and then beat 2 of the ghost pokemon in Ash's 5th gym battle. Considering how much training it has had compared to cyndaquil under Ash, it has faired just as well if not better.

The fact is, anything you mention about any of his johto team members, I can come back and mention something done by one of his other pokemon from his other team that was even more impressive.

 

[emanuellburnell]

They are just as good as his other teams i'm am not going to repeat this to you again,i brought you proof about the good things the johto team did do, you need to accept that and deal with it i'm right and your wrong.

 

[Luxio2k8]

The main problem with the Johto team was they were underdeveloped. The team also had to live under the shadow of Generation I's popularity and I not only mean the Johto seasons of the anime, but everything about Generation II (remember you were able to travel to Kanto in Gold/Silver).

 

[Elementary Penguin]

Not that bad.

I thought Johto was bad. I remember waiting and waiting for Ash to get to Faulkner's city, but the amount of filler was unbearable. So, I apologize if that rubs off on my view of his team...

Well, I think this team was too:

"Oh, you don't have to be big to be strong, it just matters what you heart feels inside!"

Feraligatr and Typloshion were very popular (and still are.) No one (especially at the time of the anime/games) said, "Megnanium is my favorite Pokemon!"

So, the fans see the least favorite evolve, and nothing happen at all to the other two! At least one of them could have evolved?

Noctowl was okay addition, but Noctowl himself seemed emotionless. Don't really know much of him there, so...

Of course, that's all in my humble opinion!

 

[Nomura]

They are just as good as his other teams i'm am not going to repeat this to you again,i brought you proof about the good things the johto team did do, you need to accept that and deal with it i'm right and your wrong.

Really??? There are more people here who would have a different opinion of who is right and who is wrong.

Also, you are only spewing your opinion, and giving examples that have already been given, while I on the other hand have given examples not yet given to counter-act your examples.

Quit being a stubborn fan-boy and give me a real argument instead of this 3rd grade I'm right and that's the end of it mentallity.

 

[The Big Al]

They didn't suck as Pokemon. They sucked as characters which was a problem with the writing. I chalk it up as the writers didn't have of clue of what they were doing in Johto.

I agree with Scott. The writers were too scared of replacing the original starters. So, they never let the Johto team outshine the Kanto team. This hampered their development and battle time as they were actually with Ash longer.

And again, the writers didn't know whether they were coming or going. When your purpose in an episode was to look cute or blast TR off, there isn't much development.

They were simply victims of the suckage that was their arc. Though, I can't remember of the Johto starters ever came in to help with the Battle Frontier.

 

[Nomura]

They didn't suck as Pokemon. They sucked as characters which was a problem with the writing. I chalk it up as the writers didn't have of clue of what they were doing in Johto.

I agree with Scott. The writers were too scared of replacing the original starters. So, they never let the Johto team outshine the Kanto team. This hampered their development and battle time as they were actually with Ash longer.

And again, the writers didn't know whether they were coming or going. When your purpose in an episode was to look cute or blast TR off, there isn't much development.

They were simply victims of the suckage that was their arc. Though, I can't remember of the Johto starters ever came in to help with the Battle Frontier.

Herracross and Phanpy/Donphan were the only johto pokemon to participate in the Battle Frontier. Other than that, no other Johto pokemon participated.

 

[Cybersai]

The last episode of Johto aired in Japan in 2002.

That means its been 6 full years since Ash has used the Johto starters and Noctowl in battle. Its almost been a decade already, sheesh.

 

[MistyBrockAsh]

ok

Dude, it's okay to feel that way...but back it up.

Granted, all the goods things the johto team did where mentioned.....but compare those things to his other pokemon...and they don't match up. I mean, if it was not for Ash's Donphan and Herracros...there would be no real power coming from his johto roster.

Go ahead, dissagree....but give me real hard evidence and quit being an annoying fanboy who uses words without logic.

my hard evidence is in my thread just look at it they all had there success all of ash poke have had

 

[Nomura]

my hard evidence is in my thread just look at it they all had there success all of ash poke have had

I've already counter-acted most of the things you and eman whatever his name is have mentioned. Most other people in this thread have disputed and explained their disputes as to why the team is not as good as the rest. No one is saying they completely suck at life, but compared to his other teams they just don't match up.

 

[MistyBrockAsh]

yes but they were good i hate how they say cynaquil and others arent as good when cynadquil has had the most gym wins than an other of ashs pokemon besides charizard and pikachu

 

[Nomura]

yes but they were good i hate how they say cynaquil and others arent as good when cynadquil has had the most gym wins than an other of ashs pokemon besides charizard and pikachu

No, treecko/grovyle had the same amount of gym wins during Hoenn...actually it had a couple more than cyndaquil did. If you count Battle Frontier battles, then corphish does too. Also, Buizel had 1 win at both the 3rd and 5th gym, and then beat 2(or was it 3) of Crasher's pokemon which gives him 1 more(or a tie) to cyndaquil.

Yes, they were good...but not great. None of them ever had Charizard vs Magmar or Charizard vs Blaziken, or Charizard vs. Dragonair, or Charizard vs. Articuno. There was never a match like the one squirtle had against that starmie in which it learned hydro pump. There was never a match like Grovyle vs. Slaking or Buizel vs Lucario. They never had the hilariously awesome Muk vs. Bellsprout or Kingler's sweep in Ash's first League match. Granted they've all had some great matches...but none of them compare to any of the one's I mentioned...and there are plenty more I can mention as well.

 

[emanuellburnell]

I found this crap about the johto not being as good as the others to be a lie,the johto team were good at battles just like his other pokemon teams and another thing the writers were never to scare to replace the original starters because they did replace them with the johto starters and they did shine to say they did not have any development is what the fan base want us to think they suck which is not true at all.

 

[Cybersai]

Why have Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Charizard constantly made comebacks in the show then?

We always see them in every saga, whereas the Johto starters and Noctowl haven't appeared outside of that 1 Pallet Town ep after Hoenn ended.

 

[Mooites]

Why have Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Charizard constantly made comebacks in the show then?

We always see them in every saga, whereas the Johto starters and Noctowl haven't appeared outside of that 1 Pallet Town ep after Hoenn ended.

Well, they were the original trio. I dont care what anyone thinks, that does mean something. Those 3 and Pikachu, they made the show for a lot of kids.

Anyway, I didnt think the Johto team was bad. It did have Cyndaquil, and I love Cyndaquil. Just because they didnt evolve doesnt mean they were bad. Its just... the show seems to be more focused or favoring on evolved Pokemon/ Pokemon with a "tough" attitude. So since the Johto team had niether of these, thats probably why we never hear about em.

 

[emanuellburnell]

The reason the kanto team came back alot of times is because they were his first original team, they were there from the start of the show and the writers are not going to forget them.

 

[Nomura]

The reason the kanto team came back alot of times is because they were his first original team, they were there from the start of the show and the writers are not going to forget them.

Okay, then why was it in Battle Frontier, when it was time for alot of pokemon to make their comeback(tauros, snorolax, herracross, donphan, torkoal, etc) not one of the johto team memebers ever made their comeback? What does that say about them? If the writers aren't going to forget about his original team, and they didn't about the pokemon they brought back for BF...then they forgot to even acknoweledge his johto team at all.

Also, quit you fanbase sucks crap. This is a forum for fans of the show/manga/games. If we suck so bad, then why are you here? Fact is, that is your only argument, as you have been unable to make an arument using facts besides the facts already used. Fact is, johto team was not a horrible team, but not as good as his others. They never had battles as good as most of his other pokemon(and I'm not just talking about later generations). They never had the same charm and personality that made them so rememberable to everyone. They were just good....but not great.

 

[Rhyperior]

The only chances the Johto team will ever got to become as stronger as the others, and not relatively weak, would be the GS remake saga. Though I don't see it happening as there may be a E4 Challenge or you can say that GS remake is pointless 'cause we can got all Pokémon without it.