How could Gyms be improved upon in future titles?

[Dieter]

Obligatory "Dark-type gym", but I would like if Gyms had other uses instead of them being the Pokemon version of RPG dungeons. The museum in Black and White went a step in the right direction, serving as the plot point to obtain the Light Stone/Dark Stone later in the game. Like a science lab for example, once you beat its Gym Leader, you had access to its exclusive shop where you could get items that are not available to other shops. X and Y did have a shop that sells types of Poke Balls not sold anywhere else, but that one is way too obscure and forgettable.

Agreed, Gyms and their leaders could definitely have their functions expanded. I don't mind if not all Gym's have a secondary function, or not much of one, but something like Nacrene Gym/Museum is pretty cool. It was both plot relevant and the site of fossil revivals. Although in general I think BW did a pretty good job of making their gyms more than just a place to battle.

Alternatively, making them part of a landmark, like Lumiose Tower, is nice too. It's just always a little sad that after I beat a gym, there's no reason to ever think about it again...

Or maybe some could offer mini-games?

 

[Camille]

I'd like the Gyms themselves to have some other functions (Generation V was a step in the right direction in that regard). I'm perfectly fine with the Leaders sticking to a single type, but I'd love them to have Pokemon that have no common weaknesses (for example, a Ground-type specialist having a Nidoking/Nidoqueen/Camerupt and a Water Absorb Quagsire/Storm Drain Gastrodon, a Water-type leader with a Drizzle Pelipper and a Volt Absorb Lanturn, since both are weak to only the rare Freeze-Dry, etc), in addition to more diverse movesets and damage-reducing Berries.

 

[Kallyle]

Maybe rather than having type-based gyms, they could have gyms themed around a common weakness? Just in the mons' typing, without consideration of their abilities. Or have some of a leader's team members use moves or items to mitigate the shared weakness. It would allow players to face far more varied teams.

I think I might have mentioned this awhile back, but didn’t really go in-depth about it like you did here. This only makes me want that concept even more now!

In fact, I think having gyms based around a common weakness would be beneficial to newer players as well since it showcases the offensive properties of certain types better through experience.

 

[Feign]

Not making them type based would go a long way towards improving them for sure.

I’d prefer if they had more diverse themes, like one gym having “alien” Pokemon(Clefairy, Beheeyem ect...), another with object based Pokemon, and so on. Type based just feels stale at this point.

Up until Gen 7, the classic Pokémon League Gym has stayed about the same. With SM GF decided to shake things up by replacing this somewhat stale staple of main series Pokémon games, and the Island Trials were overall well received. However, it is likely that Gyms are to make a return in Gen 8 since they are still a beloved part of the region by many fans. GF has already shown they are not afraid to make big changes to keep new games feel fresh, that's why we can't be certain the Gyms will be reinstated in their original form.
What changes could GF make to the Gyms (or the Gym system) that will make them (even more) interesting? Let's discuss

Like people are saying, less type based would help. Going conceptual would be fun. A Mimic Badge as the 7th Gym would be great. It would have a leader who copies your team and stats exactly. I say 7th because you probably don't want it as the final badge, but you want the players team to be as established as possible. It would feel like a breakthrough moment story wise. If we ever have to go back to Kanto, the Copycat could be Saffron's new leader. She'd turn into you right before battle and her as you would mock you throughout the battle. The stage would have to be completely symmetrical so the dynamic camera while selecting moves would be disorienting and weird.

Possibly limiting the amount you can use would be good, too. Definitely not for the mimic badge... Unless she got to choose from your team of 6 so you didn't know which she'd choose.

More than 8 gyms could be fun, too. There was that fake gym in the anime, and then in Ultra SuMo. One that had teams from top players online could be fun. If any Go feature integrates with a new gen, I wouldn't be surprised to find it's this. Setting up your own gym might make it in.

Maybe your rival can be a secret leader. Or Professor. Someone story related so you don't actually need to go to a gym.

 

[RK9]

As many other have said, perhaps go with a theme instead of a type.

Something like a Drought-team where they use a couple of Fire-types, but also pull out a Grass-type with Solarbeam to nail your Ground/Water-types in the head.

Or something like Frontier Pike Lucy had in Emerald with a snake/serpentine-like team with Pokemon like Milotic, Seviper and Shuckle.

In terms of landmarks, I think Unova did really great on making the Gyms have a secondary function. I do think it would also be nice if each Gym, after hitting a certain achievement, grant you the opportunity to catch an exclusive Pokemon (Like a mon of the Gym's type with its Hidden Ability or with a certain Egg Move or something.)

 

[colours]

I'd honestly like it if Gym Leaders weren't just plants as soon as you beat them.

Like, even above the functionality of the gyms themselves, the Gym Leaders are the central part of it and one of the things that bothers me out of every single game sans BW (I think? I might've gotten this wrong) was that the Gym Leaders don't make any real effort to contribute towards the plot of the game besides giving you a badge. This was rectified a bit in SM as Trial Captains and Kahunas were given somewhat more of a spotlight, but this still could be improved upon.

It really does irk me and it feels like the Gym Leaders are like a waste of space and there's no real connection that you can develop with them because their involvement with the player is so limited.

 

[Blast]

I'd honestly like it if Gym Leaders weren't just plants as soon as you beat them.

Like, even above the functionality of the gyms themselves, the Gym Leaders are the central part of it and one of the things that bothers me out of every single game sans BW (I think? I might've gotten this wrong) was that the Gym Leaders don't make any real effort to contribute towards the plot of the game besides giving you a badge. This was rectified a bit in SM as Trial Captains and Kahunas were given somewhat more of a spotlight, but this still could be improved upon.

It really does irk me and it feels like the Gym Leaders are like a waste of space and there's no real connection that you can develop with them because their involvement with the player is so limited.

I feel you. Look at the PokéSpe manga, not every Gym Leader is of equal importance, but they all still feel like vital figures within their respective regions. The fact that some of them have bigger, returning roles, like Blaine and Misty, reflects positively on the rest of the Gym Leaders too.

GF doesn't need to flesh out every Gym Leader to max, just have most of them fullfilling a special role during the adventure or post-game with maybe one or two Gym Leaders as real important characters. I think SM definitely made a step in the right direction after XY, especially with Hapu's role. I agree BW and BW2 are the only games that nailed this aspect so far.

 

[Alola]

I'm really liking what I'm reading. One of the things on my bucket list in life is designing and executing Gym Leader Pokemon move-sets because Game Freak has failed me one too many generations; I'll actually make a Gym Leader live up to their title. Anyways, I'll add my own two cents too:

• Challengers should only be allowed to use the same number of Pokemon as a Gym Leader during a Gym Battle. I feel like this is just the fair thing to do. It makes Gym matches more stable and challenging for the player, while also preventing the cheap strategy that is strength in numbers. How exactly is a Gym Leader supposed to serve as an obstacle for a Trainer and promote growth if a challenger brings 6 Pokemon with advantageous typing to a 2-3 Pokemon fight?
• Gyms with themes would be something different and could shake the status quo without necessarily losing the status. For example, there could be a "spooky" themed Gym or a "cute" themed Gym. This would promote species diversity as well as opening up access to new battle strategies. It would also make the Gym Leaders less predictable as a result, since their parties could all have different typing. While we haven't done that before, we have had a Gym Leader who doesn't specialize in a given type.
• Having more than 8 Gyms available for challenge in a region. We've seen this implemented in the anime, where it's been implied and outright stated that there are more than the 8 canonical Gyms in a given region. If there were more Gyms, a player's journey could be radically different from another player's, greatly changing their experience and making the world less formulaic and more immersive.
• Giving Gym Leaders full move-sets and held-items for their Pokemon. Challenge Mode for BW2 was beautiful with this notion (although its execution was piss poor), as each Gym Leader was actually challenging and implemented the same strategies that the player could do at any given moment. I don't understand why with the introduction of Generation 6, Game Freak went in the opposite direction and made Gym Leaders suck with crappy, incomplete move-sets and a lack of held items among Pokemon. It really says something when Trainers on routes are more challenging than the supposed strongest Trainer in a given area.
• Having Gym Leaders use different battle styles. There should be a Double, Triple, Tag, and Rotation Battle featured by a Leader at some point. That'd change up things greatly. They could even have an Alola inspired battle, where they send out two Pokemon to your one.
• Have Gyms be integrated into natural areas such as a cave or a lake. I think making use of nature will make the Gym even more visually impressive, which will improve how they're received.

 

[IncineROAR]

Gym rematches would be awesome. Give out different rewards in the rematches too.

 

[Dieter]

• Gyms with themes would be something different and could shake the status quo without necessarily losing the status. For example, there could be a "spooky" themed Gym or a "cute" themed Gym. This would promote species diversity as well as opening up access to new battle strategies. It would also make the Gym Leaders less predictable as a result, since their parties could all have different typing. While we haven't done that before, we have had a Gym Leader who doesn't specialize in a given type.
• Having more than 8 Gyms available for challenge in a region. We've seen this implemented in the anime, where it's been implied and outright stated that there are more than the 8 canonical Gyms in a given region. If there were more Gyms, a player's journey could be radically different from another player's, greatly changing their experience and making the world less formulaic and more immersive.
• Have Gyms be integrated into natural areas such as a cave or a lake. I think making use of nature will make the Gym even more visually impressive, which will improve how they're received.

I've seen people suggest before that next gen should be more of an open world type of deal, like BotW. Until I got that game recently, I was a little sceptical about it, but now having played BotW, I definitely see how there are certain things GF could take from this style of game.

For Gyms it could indeed mean there are more than 8 throughout the region, and to challenge the League you simply need a minimum number of badges (but more could potentially give you a boost or something). BotW is also all about exploration, so maybe they could even hide some gyms? Like, one with a ninja theme for example would definitely not be in plain sight. Or you might have to finish a quest before you get to challenge a gym.

And my experience with BotW is that the game guides you, sometimes subtly, sometimes very obviously, which works. And if you're lost, or unsure of what to do, there's a map and a quest log. Just select whichever quest you want to do and a marker appears on the map. And if you go there and it turns out the environment is to difficult for you to navigate, select a new goal and come back later. Or try anyway and somehow manage on willpower and luck.

This could give Gym Leaders an additional function of providing field moves, not unlike what the Captains did. Although in my ideal game, this would be like an extra ability/skill/move slot your Pokemon get access to, if they're eligible for the move. So, to go back to the ninja gym example, the field move it provides could be teleport. If you beat the gym, you get access to the field move version and any pokemon that could learn teleport can now use it in the field (regardless of whether it's in its moveset).

But what if you don't have a Pokemon compatible with a move? Simple, let gyms provide rental services, much like Ride Pokemon. Not one you can use in battle, but it will assist you to navigate the landscape. This could either be a species that is the Gym Leader's signature, or simply one that's featured a lot in the gym.

Additionally, this could also provide mini-games you might have to beat to get to a gym. For example, the leader could come up to you if you find the location of a gym and be like "Hey, you wanna challenge my gym, which is conveniently placed at the bottom of this lake? Well, I guess I could rent you one of my Dive pokemon to try and reach it". Cue obstacle course underwater.

Lastly, I think this kind of system would also allow people who want to beat the game quickly and get to play in the competitive to do so. They could simply go for the minimum requirement to challenge the league and pick the more easily accessible gyms.

 

[Poke Dragon]

As long as Gyms don't put a limit or level requirement on my Pokemon, I'm fine with any changes. I like challenging the Gym leader with what I got, instead of being forced to use what I prefer not to have. And I 100% agree on giving Gym Leaders more importance, this is another reason why I love Gen 5 so much, it gives more importance to basically everything lore and story related.

 

[Feign]

I'd honestly like it if Gym Leaders weren't just plants as soon as you beat them.

Like, even above the functionality of the gyms themselves, the Gym Leaders are the central part of it and one of the things that bothers me out of every single game sans BW (I think? I might've gotten this wrong) was that the Gym Leaders don't make any real effort to contribute towards the plot of the game besides giving you a badge. This was rectified a bit in SM as Trial Captains and Kahunas were given somewhat more of a spotlight, but this still could be improved upon.

It really does irk me and it feels like the Gym Leaders are like a waste of space and there's no real connection that you can develop with them because their involvement with the player is so limited.

Reminds me of another reason Ultra SuMo frustrate me as they don't expand on Nanu's background, which happens during the Looker post game Ultra events. I think because they only came out a year later, they wanted Ultra to be separate from SuMo and incentivize getting both for the complete story. Somewhere between the two games is a true classic, where every character is developed instead of half. Where Lusamine goes mad due to the Ultra Beasts, but grows in time for RR. Where you beat Kukui to become champion, but before you win, Hau walks in, having just beaten the Elite 4 and then you have to face him. A reversal of Red and Blue's story. Where you Anabel and Looker as they interact with the Reckon Squad. Looker is fascinated by them and eventually leaves to go to their world for a time. Lillie goes with you to the island and decides to become a trainer. She and Gladion decide to go together, but he leaves first while she says goodbye. Then RR happens. Maybe Looker spots Giovanni before leaving with the Recon Squad. He gets to interact with Colress and the two enjoy each others studies. You get all box legendaries since they seem pretty abundant in ultra megalopolis. For a game that is so handholding and focused on characters, they really half-assed one of the more interesting places and lore they've thought up. Ultra has all of these quality of life upgrades. (the use of the y button especially) Yet they fumble on making it the definitive edition. It's almost insulting.

 

[Matleo]

gyms ? hmmm always wanted gyms without any monotyped pokemon in them and with always 3 pokemonto fight with.
with pokemon with abilities and secondary type to battle with weakness.

Nordic mitology anyone?
or gyms where the terrains or weathers are always active due too "rune stones" in them?
This ways gym leaders would not waste ability slots and move slots for calling weather or terrain for their battles and could use more diffrent pokemon then normally.
(mixed ones too used by their pokemon)

Like a gym oriented on piramids, sand and sandtorm :
rock/fighting(new with sap sipper, or a new geodude form?bulletproof?),
rock/flying(new sand pokemon),
rock/ghost (new two legged cat god Bastet pokemon with Queenly Majesty and speed 123, my favorite one)

A gym oriented on a oasis could have a water/bug, water/grass(new pokemon-snake/croc), water/dragon(new)

a gym on a cementary: shedinja, ghost/dark, ghost/dragon(new; immune to special attacks?)

a gym in a castle could have : fighting/steel(new muskeeter mouse), steel/fairy ; steel/dragon(new one)???

a forest gym with grassy terrain always activated : grass/rock(new); grass/ice(new) ; grass/dragon(new european rose dragon)

a swamp where it always rains with diffrent kind of bugs? bug/water; bug/ghost ;bug/rock?

a Stonehange gym with mist and fairy terrain always activated? fairy/rock(new pokemon); fairy/ghost(new); fairy/dragon???

a ice sea where it always hails works automatically?

a desert themed gym were sunny weather is always on? fire/water(new) ; talonflame ; fire/grass(new)

a underwater gym in a cave there is small omount of floting plates where Trick Room is always activated? (for Wishiwashi in future generations?)

Gym leaders should use more moves that force swithing out of pokemon from their and our side.
That would be more intersting .
___________________________________________________________________________
Maybe thematical gyms oriented on a pokemons:
speed; trick room slow gym or with really fast pokemon or a mix of this and that?
attack; (physical strong attackers)
sp. attack;
defense;
sp. defense;
hp(draining-restoring- heal blocking);
accuracy;
ability(shedinja+other pokes with uniqe abilities?come back for Ditto?)
inducing different status ailments?
__________________________________________

 

[SinnohEevee]

Add a Medium and a Hard Mode where:
* The AI is smarter
* The GL has more Pokémon
* Pokémon has counters
* You can only use the same amount of Pokémon as the GL (Hard Mode only)
* Some GLs may use 6 Pokémon
* GLs may have a Pokémon not sharing a type with the others but that's still similar to them (like a Charizard in a Dragon Gym).

 

[Gengarzilla]

Gonna state what's beginning to feel like an unpopular opinion: I'd prefer it if gyms retained their type focuses instead of going all out with every possible theme. Look at, say... Misty and Crasher Wake. They train Water Pokémon but are otherwise worlds apart from each other without any of these additional things. Meanwhile, among Electric type users, we have a supermodel and a war veteran. It frankly feels unnecessary if you ask me, a type speciality alone is enough to make all of these leaders unique thanks to their different personalities or occupations.

If the issue here is instead their type theme making them easier to defeat, then I have a novel idea that you can try for yourself. Stop using type advantages. It's like saying Sabrina in FRLG was easy to beat when your mate gave you six Houndoom, or that time said mate helped your Onix evolve before battling Koga. For me, much of the inherent problem comes from us playing too smart for these games. I recalled lots of people having difficulties with Fantina in Platinum but I never felt pressured with Payback Machamp roflstomping her team.

 

[Dieter]

Gonna state what's beginning to feel like an unpopular opinion: I'd prefer it if gyms retained their type focuses instead of going all out with every possible theme. Look at, say... Misty and Crasher Wake. They train Water Pokémon but are otherwise worlds apart from each other without any of these additional things. Meanwhile, among Electric type users, we have a supermodel and a war veteran. It frankly feels unnecessary if you ask me, a type speciality alone is enough to make all of these leaders unique thanks to their different personalities or occupations.

That's not the issue though. Even with an elemental theme, there are plenty of directions a leader's design could go in, as you already illustrated. Admitted, they could involve leaders a little more with the plot sometime and have them make an actual impression rather than "oh yeah, those exist...".

You're right though, that their designs compared to each other tend to be pretty distinct, especially so in later generations. But even comparing Falkner and Winona already shows a huge difference, if not only because of the order they appear in, as the first and the sixth gym leader encountered. And comparing Skyla and Winona, both the 6th leader, also still shows a huge difference. So, it's generally not so much in design, other than the lack of involvement in anything (and that's a reason BW was so popular).

If the issue here is instead their type theme making them easier to defeat, then I have a novel idea that you can try for yourself. Stop using type advantages. It's like saying Sabrina in FRLG was easy to beat when your mate gave you six Houndoom, or that time said mate helped your Onix evolve before battling Koga. For me, much of the inherent problem comes from us playing too smart for these games. I recalled lots of people having difficulties with Fantina in Platinum but I never felt pressured with Payback Machamp roflstomping her team.

You're right. But you're also wrong. Cause you assume outside help in a lot of your examples, but even without that there are leaders you can just bowl right over with one Pokemon with a type advantage. I don't even think it's us playing too smart when the game literally tells you about type advantages for every gym. You're clearly guided in that direction. The problem is that it becomes incredibly glaring when the 4th to the 8th gym each can be easily defeated simply by having one Pokemon with a type advantage. That doesn't mean you're playing way too smart, it simply means their teams are freakin unbalanced.

Let's take Winona again as an example, because of her dreaded altaria. Coming up to her gym you might be like "Oh, a flying type gym leader! Well, I guess it's a good thing I've trained an electric type!" and you proceed to happily beat up the gym trainers. And then you get to Winona. The first pokemon she sends out is a swellow, and although it's fast and has moves to help it evade your attacks, you beat it with little trouble. Next up is a skarmory, which is a little though, but it too has that electric type weakness. By now your electric type pokemon is not on full HP anymore, but you figure it's still good to go. Then she sends out her altaria. Not only does it not have a weakness to electric type attacks due to its dragon-type, it also has earthquake, which is super effective against your electric type! You hadn't expected this!

Now, of course altaria has weakness, just like any other pokemon. those are rock, dragon, and ice. But by this point in the game, you won't have encountered any ice types yet. The only dragon types you will have encountered by then are altaria, vibrava, and flygon. But if you caught a swablu, it probably hasn't evolved yet when you challenge Winona. And to get vibrava or flygon you'd had to have caught a trapinch in an optional dungeon. Which also probably hasn't evolved yet when you challenge Winona, unless you're over-levelled. Rock types are more common, you might have a lairon or a graveller on your team, or maybe you backtracked to catch a nosepass after you obtained rock smash. But those all are weak to ground type moves and they're not very fast. And remember the problem we had in the first place, earthquake? Well, you can see the issue here I think.

What about ice type moves? The most likely options you'll have encountered by now are TM13 (Ice Beam), which can only be obtained with 4000 coins in the Mauville Game Corner, OR be found in the Abandoned Ship, which is an optional dungeon. And a compatible pokemon, although that is a lot less difficult to come by in this case, cause a lot of pokemon available in the Hoenn region are compatible with ice beam. But that's several steps you must have taken before you start your battle, and that's less likely when rock and electric types were so readily available.

And of course there's castform, which you received right before challenging the gym for saving the Weather Institute. But castform is pretty fragile and has to depend on powder snow, which is not very strong nor does it get STAB, or it has to set up hail first and use powder snow or weather ball (with STAB now)

So while Winona is far from impossible to defeat, having a type advantage didn't mean she automatically was easy to defeat. An advantage is just that, something that might give you an edge over your opponent. Unless they've got something to counter that.

Compare that to Siebold, an E4 member who should pose a challenge. The only trainer in the region better than him is supposed to be the Champion, while the other E4 members are his equals. But he's got only 4 pokemon, compared to your 6, and nothing to properly counter a speedy electric type. Sure, his gyarados has earthquake, but if electric types tend to be fast, so chances are he won't even be able to use it. And it's got ice fang to deal with grass types, but really, you're gonna use a grass type on a gyarados? And his only other pokemon that could deal with a grass type has x-scissor. So once those two are taken out, a single grass type could wreak absolute havoc. Or you could just leave that speedy electric type to continue its reign of terror. All that when both quagsire and whiscash are readily available in Kalos (and gastrodon and seismitoad are technically also available, albeit through the friend safari). And for those grass types, lapras and cloyster are both available in the region, the latter of which even makes sense thematically.

At first I was gonna use Kiawe, Lana, and Mallow as an example, but I think their totem pokemon actually pose a decent challenge. And they're not gym leaders either so... Like the only 'criticism' there is that you do them in the order water>fire>grass, and each area provides you with plenty of pokemon of that element to get you ready for the next challenge. And SuMo/USUM are far from the only games to do that. When simply changing the order to fire>water>grass already changes the experience. A similar occurrence right before challenging Valerie, route 14 is absolutely filled with poison types. Her mawile doesn't even know a fairy type move, it's her only way of countering poison types, and non of her three pokemon have a way of dealing with basically anything that could threaten her mawile. And she's the sixth gym leader to be challenged! By that time, a player should be experienced enough not to need so much handholding...

So, while you're right that challenging a gym with a team made entirely of pokemon with a type advantage (or overlevelled pokemon for that matter) will easily negate any challenge a gym leader might pose, there's also a difference in HOW a gym leader might utilise their team

 

[ShinxDaSphinx]

There could also be a new system where gym leaders have different tactics instead and several types based off the tactic. ex. All-out offensive gym leader using Fighting, Psychic, Fire, Dragon, and Electric types, Stall leader using Water, Rock, Steel, Flying, and Poison, and Balance using Grass, Ground, Ghost, Dark, Ice, Fairy. (IDK about Bug and Normal)

 

[al_the_bard]

More trainers, or you can repeatedly battle the trainers before you take on the gym leader.

 

[Blast]

More trainers, or you can repeatedly battle the trainers before you take on the gym leader.

I don't know about rebattling Gym Trainers. It seems like it'd become too easy to simply grind in order to defeat the Gym Leader, since you receive more EXP for KOing Trainers' Pokémon. At least with wild Pokémon it takes longer, so the player is discouraged from using a tactic like that.

 

[Matleo]

There could also be a new system where gym leaders have different tactics instead and several types based off the tactic. ex. All-out offensive gym leader using Fighting, Psychic, Fire, Dragon, and Electric types, Stall leader using Water, Rock, Steel, Flying, and Poison, and Balance using Grass, Ground, Ghost, Dark, Ice, Fairy. (IDK about Bug and Normal)

or the regular type based gyms with it too too seperate from the past ones? or each of their pokemon with diffrent purpose in battle? or a whole tactic like you suggested. If that with all gym leaders be dual type around one base type it would work well.
Bc the Elite four also is out there.