How do we feel about dual type attacks?

[MicManGuy]

In the sylveon video, where it shows her doing the weird space thing and then shows vaporeon and glaceon, maybe she was combining their attacks in some way?

 

[Rainbow]

I would love a way to combine attacks for double/triple battles. Preferably if they worked like the Triple Finish in Brawl.

 

[Noivern]

Dual-type attacks? That's a whole new can of worms that I'll gladly take.

Though, I probably would prefer the effectiveness to be an average of both types in question. No 0x damage just because one of the types is 0x when the other isn't. This would also help keep some value in the power of single-type moves, as they can be consistently 2x given the right circumstances.

(This would also mean that, assuming that the effectiveness scale doesn't change, we'll have... 0x, 0.25x, 0.5x, 0.75x, 1x, 1.5x, 2x. Seems to be a lot of less than 1s, though.)

 

[pastabender]

Dual typed attacks in terms of double battles would be awesome, but the way I read the rumour in my mind, I thought of dual typed attacks that were single attacks? And I have no idea how that would really work.

 

[Reddigans]

I'm pretty open to the idea of dual-typed moves, but I feel like the type multipliers of actual combo moves would get out of hand. From what's been posted so far, multi-hit attacks which alternate types, Aves' hybrid and modal (adaptive) moves, and moves that deal damage of a different type (e.g. ice move dealing fire-type damage) are excellent ideas . I would love to see a mix of these in-game.

 

[Stratelier]

One problem with dual-type attacks: What happens if you hit a single-typed Pokemon and both elements are supereffective? Does that mean 4x? BUT it violates the idea that single-typed Pokemon just cannot have double weaknesses. So here's an idea:
- To calculate the damage from a dual-typed attack, its constituent elements are compiled into a single, "hybrid" element.
- This hybrid element multiplies the effectiveness of the types that comprise it, BUT the modifer caps out at 2x. So if both attack elements would be supereffective against a type (e.g. Fire+Flying vs. Bug), it still only does 2x damage. Likewise, if both attack elements would be resisted (e.g. Fire+Flying vs. Rock), it does 1/2x instead of 1/4x.
- Then compute damage as if it were a single-typed attack.

For example, say Fire Punch is typed as dual Fire/Fighting. We know that:
- Fire does 2x against Grass/Ice/Bug/Steel, half against itself/Water/Rock/Dragon.
- Fighting does 2x against Normal/Ice/Rock/Dark/Steel, half against Bug/Poison/Flying/Psychic, zero to Ghost.

Therefore, we can combine the above to get:
- 2x (NOT 4x) against Ice/Steel
- 2x against Normal/Grass/Dark
- Normal against Bug/Rock
- Half against Fire/Water/Poison/Flying/Psychic/Dragon
- Zero against Ghost

And then we simply calculate it against the opponent's type the same as we doe for single elements. HOWEVER this still leaves the very thorny issue about immunities. Namely, if the above hybrid element is non-effective on Ghosts, you can no longer Fire Punch a Froslass or Shedinja (vulnerable to Fire, immune to Fighting). What to do about that? No easy answer. Perhaps a vulnerability in one type cancels out an immunity on the other (like PMD, where an immunity is replaced by double-resistance), but that's starting to get too complicated.

 

[Urilikya]

Frankly I like the idea of the "dual-typed" attacks where we have, say, a fighting type attack that does damage as though it were fire, thus getting the fighting STAB, but being super effective against Pokemon that are weak to fire type attacks.

But straight dual-type attacks are way over powered.

 

[Stratelier]

Not entirely. The hybrid Fire Punch I just described (when compared to the current, pure-Fire Fire Punch) gains effectiveness to Normal, Rock, and Dark, but loses effectiveness to Poison, Bug, Flying, and Psychic (not to mention Ghost). That's a net loss of two types you can use it against.

 

[mulqxvi]

They can change the super effective multiplier to be something other than 2x. Maybe they can just change some of the non-intuitive match-ups. Then we'll can have 2x, 1.5x, 1x, .75x and .5x.

They can limit moves to types that are only 1.5x as effective. Then a double weakness would be 2.25x, slightly better than current single weakness but not as crippling.

 

[Aves]

Dual type attacks is probably the most provocative unconfirmed rumor left from the pokebeach source which correctly predicted a number of other things so far. I think that opens this discussion to more serious consideration of how dual type attacks will be handled.

If the rumor is correct, this provides a pretty good opportunity to retcon a lot of moves with only one type before. I could also see signature moves being made for pokémon with unusual type combinations. But quite a lot rests on the manner of implementation. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having very high multipliers in a very small minority of cases, especially since higher than 4x is more overkill than really being more powerful. It's just about the cool factor of it.

 

[GreatLiver]

I mean the way the pokebeach rumor worked wasn't truly dual type attacks. It was just attacks with a dichotomy between stab type and damaging type. Completely plausible as opposed to weird damage calculations from actual dual type attacks.

 

[DragonKahuna]

It would be a mess up. They're unnecessary.

 

[pokemaniac0103]

no.it would be to complicated

 

[Stratelier]

I mean the way the pokebeach rumor worked wasn't truly dual type attacks. It was just attacks with a dichotomy between stab type and damaging type.

Was that actually what the rumor said? After all, what I remember was it only used the buzzword of "dual type" with no further explanation.

Currently, the type of a move dictates two things:
- Its effectiveness against the target's type
- Who gets STAB from it

We already expect that a move of a given type will have both of the above qualities, that point is non-negotiable. You cannot have a move that does type A damage but grants +50% power only to type B -- however note this does not rule out the possibility of a move granting +50% to more than one type.

 

[Ditto91]

I'm not quite sure what to choose atm I just don't know what to do for it. :/

 

[faucin]

GF is going to use dual type attacks as a sneaky way to overpower lucario even more

mega lucario + bullet punch steel/fighting = double adaptability boosted STAB + priority = OP

 

[Stratelier]

I don't think it will work that way. Besides, Mega Lucario already gets Adaptability which is basically a "double STAB" already.

 

[faucin]

yeah i know, i was joking on GF tendency to make strong/popular pokes a lot more stronger rather than giving some love to the forgotten ones

 

[epicparker]

I feel like if they're doing it then it's gonna be in the next Corocoro. If it's not, then it's not happening. This is a huge game-changer (literally) and it wouldn't be one of those things you find out after the game is released.

 

[Stratelier]

So by now we can confirm that one dual-type move exists: Flying Press. It's a signature move of Hawlucha (but Sketchable) and considering what Hawlucha is, it totally fits. (It's also just plain fun to watch.) The move is labelled as purely Fighting type (so it grants STAB solely for Fighting Pokemon) but it has both Fighting+Flying type effectiveness, making it effectively a single hybrid element. Note that Fighting and Flying's respective strengths and weaknesses do not overlap, but do cancel each other out (in the case of Rock, Steel, and Bug types) -- it's SE against a total of five elements (Normal, Grass, Ice, Fighting, and Dark), resisted by five (Electric, Poison, Psychic, Flying, Fairy) and has no effect on Ghost (without Foresight).

So any final thoughts on the subject as a whole? Hawlucha's Flying Press isn't exactly a gamebreaking move (with only 80 power and no side effects beyond the mixed element type), and IMHO I think other dual-types are potentially possible (it is noted that if Flying Press is used under Electrify it becomes essentially Electric+Flying; Electric and Flying's strengths and weaknesses also do not overlap), provided it fits the design of the Pokemon wielding it.

Though I still theorize that if you take two moves with mutual effectiveness against a single target type, their modifiers do not stack (because you can't be allowed to do 4x damage against a single-typed Pokemon).