BDSP How faithful do you think these remakes will be?

[Kallyle]

While I do think quite a few of Sinnoh's features that all the installments share will be included (minus the Game Corner for obvious reasons), there's a few features I have to question on the topic of their return for various reasons:

1. At least a portion of the Sinnoh's Super Contest will definitely get cut.
   1. The dress-up section: This worked back then because the Pokémon were sprites. However, we have since transitioned to 3D models for said Pokémon. I highly doubt that we're going to get detailed outfits for every Sinnoh Pokémon that aren't awkwardly placed, especially if you take into account how there might be the full 493 Pokémon roster the Generation 4 games contained.
   2. The dancing section: Once again, this worked because the Pokémon were sprite-based. Trying to replicate those simple movements in 3D would seem pretty awkward, especially in comparison to BDSP's already-divisive chibi style. And again, I highly doubt there was enough time to implement dance moves for the whole roster of these games, let alone all 493 Pokémon that existed at the time of DPPt's release.
2. Amity Square(?): I'm a little iffy on whether this might get cut or not. What I'm talking about isn't the location itself, but rather its functional purpose. In the Sinnoh games, this was the only place where you could let your Pokémon follow you, even though the roster was limited to a select few. You could take a stroll through Amity Square will these Pokémon, with different species allowing you to pick up a different roster of items that could be used to decorate/dress-up your Pokémon in Super Contests. Since the functionality of this area was likely a test-run for the ability of all Pokémon being able to follow you almost everywhere in HGSS (which doesn't seem to be the case with BDSP), combined with the likelihood of the dress-up sections of Super Contests likely getting cut, there's little reason for said area to function like it did in DPPt due to its gimmick now amounting to a reduced version of something subsequent games expanded upon. In that case, is it even worth making Amity Square like it was in the original Sinnoh games?
3. Poffin Baking mini-game: Unlike the other features on this list, baking Poffins in a mini-game format would be fairly simple to implement and wouldn't be considered outdated due to it being so similar to SwSh's curry-making mini-game. However, I doubt that this will come back for the sole reason of how ORAS simplified Berry Blending for making Pokéblocks, which removed the mini-game aspect entirely.
4. Pal Park: The whole location's existence is a transfer hub combined with a catching mini game. Considering both Pokémon Bank and Pokémon Home offer more direct transfers that don't require any sort of mini-game, Pal Park in its previous form would seem like annoying obstacle at best unless they somehow repurposed the area.
5. The Great Marsh's Safari Game: Seeing as how ORAS converted Hoenn's Safari Zone into just another area where you can battle and catch Pokémon, I kind of expect the same thing to happen to Sinnoh's Great Marsh in BDSP.
6. DPPt's Battle Tower(?):We know that the Battle Frontier is highly unlikely to make it into the games since Masuda views such content as too much for the target audience because smartphones, but this time I'm wondering if we'll even get a Battle Tower in this installment.
   1. For a while, TPCi seem to have been content with doing a copy-paste of the generation's respective Battle Tower clone despite how little sense it might make (especially with the Battle Maison in ORAS rather than giving us Hoenn's Battle Tower). With the advent of Dexit and BDSP likely not sharing a good portion of SwSh roster due to Dexit, this becomes a big obstacle if not outright impossible.
   2. BDSP isn't being developed by Game Freak, but rather ICLA. This might give us hope that we get something other than a copy-paste of SwSh's Battle Tower (namely DPPt's Battle Tower instead). However, there is also a chance that this results in the games not getting a Battle Tower at all since they would have to code it from scratch. Keep in mind that is the first time that this studio is developing a mainline Pokémon title; they might not know how to properly implement a standard Battle Tower before the games get released. I can't and won't hold this against them.
7. Mythical Pokémon Events: Given the tendency of TPCi to just have Game Freak directly distribute the Mythical to us via Mystery Gift instead of giving us an item that gives us this whole event allowing us to capture the Mythicals ourselves, the absence of these types of events wouldn't be surprising in the least. The best hope we have for such events is if they get incorporated into (a) post-game story/stories like Deoxys in ORAS's Delta Episode.

As I have pointed out, there's a good chunk of obstacles in terms of how faithful BDSP will be in terms of features that the original Sinnoh games contained. This isn't to say that none of these features can/will be implemented into the remakes, but those that do get in will be either simplified or require a bit of reworking. You can only be so faithful when the mechanics, hardware, and the franchise's philosophy have changed quite a bit since the games you are remaking were first released.

 

[charlycicero]

I think it's mainly going to be like the original DP, but with Platinum's Dex, a post game arc for Giratina, and a few QoL features. I wouldn't expect any major new features for this game aside from maybe Megas (which isn't really new as much as returning from more recent games).

This. I would certainly hope for a Delta episode parallel to ORAS to obtain Darkrai, Shaymin and the like, but maybe I'm asking for too much.

 

[Greninjaman]

I don't see why there is all the hate for the chibi-style. The overworld sprite for the 2D games are pretty much chibi. XY, ORAS, and LGP/E have 3D chbi models. I don't see the hate.

 

[charlycicero]

I don't see why there is all the hate for the chibi-style. The overworld sprite for the 2D games are pretty much chibi. XY, ORAS, and LGP/E have 3D chbi models. I don't see the hate.

Strictly speaking, ALL Pokémon human characters are chibi-styled in the games. Who ever thinks that such big heads are realistic? The human proportions in all Pokémon media (save for a few exceptions) are cartoonish and never even close to a real human's. I know because I studied the human body quite extensively for my drawing classes.

Perhaps the chibi style in BDSP is much more exaggerated, but still.

If anyone doesn't believe me, compare the human characters in the Detective Pikachu movie on even in Pokemon Go to the Pokémon themselves. Then compare the human characters in the games / anime to the Pokémon. Especially the heads.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

While I do think quite a few of Sinnoh's features that all the installments share will be included (minus the Game Corner for obvious reasons), there's a few features I have to question on the topic of their return for various reasons:

1. At least a portion of the Sinnoh's Super Contest will definitely get cut.
   1. The dress-up section: This worked back then because the Pokémon were sprites. However, we have since transitioned to 3D models for said Pokémon. I highly doubt that we're going to get detailed outfits for every Sinnoh Pokémon that aren't awkwardly placed, especially if you take into account how there might be the full 493 Pokémon roster the Generation 4 games contained.
   2. The dancing section: Once again, this worked because the Pokémon were sprite-based. Trying to replicate those simple movements in 3D would seem pretty awkward, especially in comparison to BDSP's already-divisive chibi style. And again, I highly doubt there was enough time to implement dance moves for the whole roster of these games, let alone all 493 Pokémon that existed at the time of DPPt's release.
2. Amity Square(?): I'm a little iffy on whether this might get cut or not. What I'm talking about isn't the location itself, but rather its functional purpose. In the Sinnoh games, this was the only place where you could let your Pokémon follow you, even though the roster was limited to a select few. You could take a stroll through Amity Square will these Pokémon, with different species allowing you to pick up a different roster of items that could be used to decorate/dress-up your Pokémon in Super Contests. Since the functionality of this area was likely a test-run for the ability of all Pokémon being able to follow you almost everywhere in HGSS (which doesn't seem to be the case with BDSP), combined with the likelihood of the dress-up sections of Super Contests likely getting cut, there's little reason for said area to function like it did in DPPt due to its gimmick now amounting to a reduced version of something subsequent games expanded upon. In that case, is it even worth making Amity Square like it was in the original Sinnoh games?
3. Poffin Baking mini-game: Unlike the other features on this list, baking Poffins in a mini-game format would be fairly simple to implement and wouldn't be considered outdated due to it being so similar to SwSh's curry-making mini-game. However, I doubt that this will come back for the sole reason of how ORAS simplified Berry Blending for making Pokéblocks, which removed the mini-game aspect entirely.
4. Pal Park: The whole location's existence is a transfer hub combined with a catching mini game. Considering both Pokémon Bank and Pokémon Home offer more direct transfers that don't require any sort of mini-game, Pal Park in its previous form would seem like annoying obstacle at best unless they somehow repurposed the area.
5. The Great Marsh's Safari Game: Seeing as how ORAS converted Hoenn's Safari Zone into just another area where you can battle and catch Pokémon, I kind of expect the same thing to happen to Sinnoh's Great Marsh in BDSP.
6. DPPt's Battle Tower(?):We know that the Battle Frontier is highly unlikely to make it into the games since Masuda views such content as too much for the target audience because smartphones, but this time I'm wondering if we'll even get a Battle Tower in this installment.
   1. For a while, TPCi seem to have been content with doing a copy-paste of the generation's respective Battle Tower clone despite how little sense it might make (especially with the Battle Maison in ORAS rather than giving us Hoenn's Battle Tower). With the advent of Dexit and BDSP likely not sharing a good portion of SwSh roster due to Dexit, this becomes a big obstacle if not outright impossible.
   2. BDSP isn't being developed by Game Freak, but rather ICLA. This might give us hope that we get something other than a copy-paste of SwSh's Battle Tower (namely DPPt's Battle Tower instead). However, there is also a chance that this results in the games not getting a Battle Tower at all since they would have to code it from scratch. Keep in mind that is the first time that this studio is developing a mainline Pokémon title; they might not know how to properly implement a standard Battle Tower before the games get released. I can't and won't hold this against them.
7. Mythical Pokémon Events: Given the tendency of TPCi to just have Game Freak directly distribute the Mythical to us via Mystery Gift instead of giving us an item that gives us this whole event allowing us to capture the Mythicals ourselves, the absence of these types of events wouldn't be surprising in the least. The best hope we have for such events is if they get incorporated into (a) post-game story/stories like Deoxys in ORAS's Delta Episode.

As I have pointed out, there's a good chunk of obstacles in terms of how faithful BDSP will be in terms of features that the original Sinnoh games contained. This isn't to say that none of these features can/will be implemented into the remakes, but those that do get in will be either simplified or require a bit of reworking. You can only be so faithful when the mechanics, hardware, and the franchise's philosophy have changed quite a bit since the games you are remaking were first released.

This is an absolute worst case scenario I dread.

 

[RileyXY1]

This is an absolute worst case scenario I dread.

And of course, most of it is inevitable due to hardware changes and precedent.

 

[Esserise]

At least a portion of the Sinnoh's Super Contest will definitely get cut.

1. The dress-up section: This worked back then because the Pokémon were sprites. However, we have since transitioned to 3D models for said Pokémon. I highly doubt that we're going to get detailed outfits for every Sinnoh Pokémon that aren't awkwardly placed, especially if you take into account how there might be the full 493 Pokémon roster the Generation 4 games contained.
2. The dancing section: Once again, this worked because the Pokémon were sprite-based. Trying to replicate those simple movements in 3D would seem pretty awkward, especially in comparison to BDSP's already-divisive chibi style. And again, I highly doubt there was enough time to implement dance moves for the whole roster of these games, let alone all 493 Pokémon that existed at the time of DPPt's release.

I really don't think this are as big of a problem as you're thinking.

You're not going to get highly detailed outfits for all 493 Pokémon, but when were the Contest outfits ever "highly detailed"? They were mostly silly accessories and some environmental objects, and for that you can probably just use assigned attachment points, like how fetch works in Pokémon Camp. It wouldn't be jaw-droppingly amazing, but it could get the job done.

Similarly, I don't think the simple movements of "right, left, front, and jump" would look that awkward with the 3D models. No more awkward than when a Pokémon uses Tail Whip, anyway. Plus, there's a lot of Amie animations that they could probably repurpose as well.

Amity Square(?): I'm a little iffy on whether this might get cut or not. What I'm talking about isn't the location itself, but rather its functional purpose. In the Sinnoh games, this was the only place where you could let your Pokémon follow you, even though the roster was limited to a select few. You could take a stroll through Amity Square will these Pokémon, with different species allowing you to pick up a different roster of items that could be used to decorate/dress-up your Pokémon in Super Contests. Since the functionality of this area was likely a test-run for the ability of all Pokémon being able to follow you almost everywhere in HGSS (which doesn't seem to be the case with BDSP), combined with the likelihood of the dress-up sections of Super Contests likely getting cut, there's little reason for said area to function like it did in DPPt due to its gimmick now amounting to a reduced version of something subsequent games expanded upon. In that case, is it even worth making Amity Square like it was in the original Sinnoh games?

So long as you still give players a reason to play around with it, sure they could keep it. In fact, my above comment about Amie animations has me wondering if this game will have some kind of affection-building feature like Amie/Refresh/Camp, and maybe Amity Square is the answer - it's definitely appropriate from a thematic standpoint.

Pal Park: The whole location's existence is a transfer hub combined with a catching mini game. Considering both Pokémon Bank and Pokémon Home offer more direct transfers that don't require any sort of mini-game, Pal Park in its previous form would seem like annoying obstacle at best unless they somehow repurposed the area.

True enough, Pal Park is a relic and I think it will be treated as such. There's the usual suggestions of what they could do, like making it into a GO Park (but that would get in the way of those sweet, sweet monetized HOME transfers) or a spot for catching regional variants, but I do think it's more likely that they just shut it down.

The Great Marsh's Safari Game: Seeing as how ORAS converted Hoenn's Safari Zone into just another area where you can battle and catch Pokémon, I kind of expect the same thing to happen to Sinnoh's Great Marsh in BDSP.

Good.

DPPt's Battle Tower(?):We know that the Battle Frontier is highly unlikely to make it into the games since Masuda views such content as too much for the target audience because smartphones, but this time I'm wondering if we'll even get a Battle Tower in this installment.

1. For a while, TPCi seem to have been content with doing a copy-paste of the generation's respective Battle Tower clone despite how little sense it might make (especially with the Battle Maison in ORAS rather than giving us Hoenn's Battle Tower). With the advent of Dexit and BDSP likely not sharing a good portion of SwSh roster due to Dexit, this becomes a big obstacle if not outright impossible.
2. BDSP isn't being developed by Game Freak, but rather ICLA. This might give us hope that we get something other than a copy-paste of SwSh's Battle Tower (namely DPPt's Battle Tower instead). However, there is also a chance that this results in the games not getting a Battle Tower at all since they would have to code it from scratch. Keep in mind that is the first time that this studio is developing a mainline Pokémon title; they might not know how to properly implement a standard Battle Tower before the games get released. I can't and won't hold this against them.

Again, I think this is kind of overestimating the difficulty involved in the task. Frontier is deffo not happening, but the Battle Tower isn't that complex, and I'm sure GF would be willing to share the coding architecture with ILCA since this is a mutually beneficial partnership. I don't think it will be a copy/paste of SwSh's Tower, but I don't see why they couldn't replicate the one from the original DP. It's just pitting you against a streak of Trainers and drawing from a pool of randomized Pokémon.

 

[Bolt Strike]

True enough, Pal Park is a relic and I think it will be treated as such. There's the usual suggestions of what they could do, like making it into a GO Park (but that would get in the way of those sweet, sweet monetized HOME transfers) or a spot for catching regional variants, but I do think it's more likely that they just shut it down.

The issue with just shutting down Pal Park is what else is there to do in that part of Sinnoh? It's a dead end stretch of routes, there aren't any Pokemon that you can't catch somewhere else in Sinnoh, so unless you really like battling every single trainer in Sinnoh, what else is there to do there? I feel like there should be something there to justify those routes' existence, otherwise they may as well just cut all three routes (and that would just leave a gap in the numbering that would raise questions to newer fans).

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I don't see why there is all the hate for the chibi-style. The overworld sprite for the 2D games are pretty much chibi. XY, ORAS, and LGP/E have 3D chbi models. I don't see the hate.

At least 3-4 people have highlighted the art style inconsistency in the other thread. The chibi style is fine and has its charm, but the BSDP version of it isn’t coherent. Other users have expressed it way better than I ever could.

 

[Almonds]

I wonder if any of the characters are going to get a redesign. So far, Lucas, Dawn, and Barry look exactly the same. It is a little disappointing to be honest, when we have seen major redesigns for May and Brendan who got new outfits that were better suited to Hoenn's climate. They even got contest outfits that match the Contest Pikachus Cute and Cool.

I really hope the characters (gym leaders, stat trainers, E4, Cynthia, Team Galactic) get new designs. It doesn't affect the gameplay, yes. But a character redesign would give a fresh look.

 

[Cute Charm]

The new designs are probably going to be saved for Legends.

 

[Aulos]

I expect these games to be faithful to a flaw. You know, kinda like Ocarina of Time 3D, where you're just playing the exact same game with slightly updated visuals.

I hope I'm proven wrong, but such a conservative visual approach definitely hints toward a conservative gameplay approach as well.

 

[Norzan]

You know, kinda like Ocarina of Time 3D, where you're just playing the exact same game with slightly updated visuals.

It made the Water Temple less cancerous to complete by allowing Iron Boots to be used with just a button.

Watch that change somehow be bigger than any in the Gen 4 remakes, which would be really sad.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I expect these games to be faithful to a flaw. You know, kinda like Ocarina of Time 3D, where you're just playing the exact same game with slightly updated visuals.

I hope I'm proven wrong, but such a conservative visual approach definitely hints toward a conservative gameplay approach as well.

It's funny, because that's how most remakes tend to be. 1:1 recreations of the game with at best one new feature and maybe a handful of tweaks. Pokemon fans are actually somewhat spoiled in that regard, the only other IP I've seen that makes larger changes is Metroid. Now I do agree that remakes should be less faithful like past Pokemon remakes, especially in an era where you can just throw old games on a digital storefront, but that's actually not the status quo for the industry.

 

[Cute Charm]

To be fair, they can't necessarily drop the DS games on the eshop like they can the first 3 gens. They'd take some editing or split screen ala Punch Out arcade for the battles to work. Like yeah, they can just bind the Poketech to Y, but the battles would need to have their menus edited big time.

Maybe that's why they've done something like this. To give people who missed out on Gen 4 a chance to play a Gen 4 game outside of the DS or unofficial emulators.

 

[SeanWheeler]

I just hope they are not TOO faithful. There are Legendaries that were left out of their home regional Dex. It's time for Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, Phione, Darkrai, Shaymin and Arceus to be documented in a regional Dex. The part about needing to see every Pokémon before earning the National Dex? I've been begging for that for a long time. And the National Dex has to go up to 898, not 493. Forget what they said about never making a game containing every Pokémon again. That was a big mistake that caused a lot of backlash. And if Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl are so faithful that they only have HALF a National Dex in the post-game, that would leave 63 Pokémon still trapped in Pokémon Home, which includes the Unova and Kalos starters. Okay, Oshawott is in Legends Arceus, so 60. A minority but we can't leave a poor Ducklett, Litleo or Pikipek stuck there. The Battle Frontier? After how it was replaced with a Battle Resort, the remakes owe us Platinum's Frontier. The Game Corner? With it censored by Europe's laws, it's impossible to bring it back as it was.

 

[KirbyBulba737]

At least 3-4 people have highlighted the art style inconsistency in the other thread. The chibi style is fine and has its charm, but the BSDP version of it isn’t coherent. Other users have expressed it way better than I ever could.

Could you give me a link?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Could you give me a link?

Disclaimer: other users have obviously come up with their own opinions, I’m just quoting their analysis here. I haven’t had enough time to make a detailed one with issues specific to myself so far.

Pokémon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl General Discussion

Right because this: Is normal human anatomy which the models are based upon.

forums.bulbagarden.net

The use of shading and lighting makes some models like Barry's and Dawn's look borderline photoshopped in and not clear.

 

[Norzan]

Remakes straddle a very thin line. You make them too faithful to the original to a fault, you make people wonder why they should be even buy the game if it's too much like the original. But you change too much and you wonder why they didn't just make a new game, or at least a sequel.

For me personally, a remake has to take all good parts of the original (and possibly improve them), improve the bad parts, and add content that feels in place with the original to justify its existence. When the company says they are making a faithful recreation along with trying so hard to emulate the original style, it's an huge red flag.

Yes, we have only one trailer (i swear this is becoming a meme), but so far it seems they are trying so hard to emulate the original, it sends me bad vibes.

 

[Esserise]

You make them too faithful to the original to a fault, you make people wonder why they should be even buy the game if it's too much like the original. But you change too much and you wonder why they didn't just make a new game, or at least a sequel.

I disagree to an extent - I think there's more reasons why people might be interested in a remake than "I feel like I'm in the market for the same experience I had before, but different enough that it doesn't feel the same." With Pokémon, it can be pretty hard to find second-hand original copies of RSE and DPP that are both 1) not eye-gougingly expensive, and 2) authentic. People might be interested in what those games have to offer, but maybe they either can't afford them or don't want to risk receiving a bootleg copy. From that position, remakes of those games can come as a relief. I mean, I've certainly seen a few people say things like, "I never got a chance to play the originals, so this is cool."

Particularly in the case of Diamond & Pearl, I think there's a lot of improvement to be had simply by updating the game to newer hardware. I do own copies of Diamond and Pearl, but even if BDSP are a complete, exact 1:1 copy of them in terms of content, from my perspective, I'd still rather play the newest ones since the originals were mired by technical flaws (I don't actually want to deal with tortoise-tier text print and surfing and save and HP scroll speeds in 2021), and no longer have access a lot of their interactive features due to the shuttering of Wi-Fi services.

For example, for my part, I can't think of much that I think needs to change about the original Black & White when the time for a remake comes. I already really like the game. There's maybe a couple of things I'd change here and there, but nothing major. If I were in the mood to revisit those games, I think I'd like the option to play a version of them that's faster, has newer conveniences, and can still connect to the Internet, because those shortcomings are one of the main things that deter me from replaying the copies I have.

(That being said, that's if I were in the mood. But I am generally much more interested in radical reimaginings such as Legends: Arceus. I'm definitely happier that we're getting BDSP in addition to that, and if I had to pick only one, I'd take Legends. Likewise, in a scenario where I have to choose between Legends: Unova or SpectralonWhite & VantaBlack, I would take the former, the more novel one. But a lot of people might feel as though Legends: Arceus doesn't really capture the nostalgic experience of DP, and is too different from them compared to previous remakes in the series, with a sense of, "How come Kanto, Johto, and Hoenn were accurately reproduced, but Sinnoh got reworked from the ground up into something that no longer resembles the old games?" - Precisely what your second sentence proposes.)