How Much More Fleshed Out Could Misty, Iris, and Serena's Goals Have Went/Be?

[Cinderfella]

Hello All, Back again.

Watching X and Y and reading commentary about Serena's goal as well as keeping in mind those who felt Misty and Iris' goals left much to be desired-I wondered: what could the writers have really done to flesh each out more or currently right now with Serena's.

With Misty and Iris-focusing on one type, while challenging and to some may be mundane, ultimately is commendable I think. They've both been down to battle in tournaments and competitions and are never scared to back down. Shit, they even each beat Ash once-even if albeit they were questionable victories.

Serena's, on the other hand, while it could gather a lot for character development, as it already has. Ultimately, to a lot of people, it is a rip off of Appeal rounds and is just dress up or cooking contests with one's pokemon. People also taking issue with it being solely for girls is also something to ponder about.

For Misty and Iris-the issue seems to be the lack of a general competition, like Ash, May, and Dawn had-and to an extent Serena-that would challenge their pokemon's strengths and ultimately make them stronger. Misty freaking Idolized Loreli (Prima) from the games and they didn't even go anywhere with that.

Serena, could very well have a portion in her showcases that would allow her pokemon to grow in strength as well, not just applause.

Misty and Iris have the strength desire in their goals, while Serena has the consistency in her's. If the writers took a little bit of each and applied them to each girl's journey, I don't think many people would have complained or be complaining about Serena's goal currently.

Thoughts?

 

[Snowy]

Honestly, the female companions are pretty underutilized in my opinion. Especially when it comes to goals.

Misty followed Ash around, using her bike as an excuse but I'll ignore that for the time being... Her goal? To be a water pokemon master, I believe. What does that mean?! How do you know when you have "mastered" water pokemon? The same argument goes for Iris.

The anime has never specified what being a pokemon master has entailed, and it has never specified what being a dragon master or a water pokemon master entails.

What I like to interrupt Misty and Iris' goals are is that they are traveling to learn as much as they can. It's a great goal in theory... one that has no end point...

But it did make for a boring anime story. With May, Dawn and Serena, their goal is tangible. There IS an end point. We got to see weather or not they achieved their goal by the end of their series.

The same goes for the male companions. Why was Cilan following Ash? Who knows? :-s. Brock's goal was also to learn as much as he could, and eventually he was given an end goal AFTER he departed from Ash. And Clemont? I have no idea.

To directly answer the question in your subject line... MUCH. I believe the anime should take half the focus it gives to Ash and divide that up between the companion characters and their goals.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Both Misty and Iris suffered from a similar kind of problem. They both kept talking about how they wanted to be a Water type/Dragon type master, but they didn't do nearly as much during their runs to help get closer to their goal. Iris was in more battles than Misty, but they were full of pretty cheap wins and pretty much every accomplishment was handed to her on a silver plate instead of being the result of actual effort. Misty's battles that didn't involve Team Rocket were more infrequent by comparison and she had fewer memorable Pokemon as well.

They both needed to be in some kind of competition that helped with their goals. While we don't know what exactly it takes to become a Pokemon Master in the anime, Ash getting Gym battles and competing in the region's League helps to make him become a stronger trainer and closer to his dream. Some kind of similar competition for Water and Dragon Pokemon so that Misty and Iris would have to battle frequently would give them something more to work for than a vague term like being a master and could provide more of a reason for them to travel with Ash than being the token female character of the group. It might have also helped Misty to leave more of her Pokemon behind in the Gym at some point when most of them lacked personality and so that she could have captured some duel Water type Pokemon in the second generation. It would have provided more variety to her team and made it easier to give them different movesets.

The Pokemon Showcases so far have been basically glorified Contest appeals. To be fair, they aren't bad glorified Contest appeals from what I've seen and Serena has gotten some good focus episodes from her desire to be in the Showcases and training for them, but it definitely feels like they've put more limitations by making it all about the appeal and looking pretty for the audience. If I didn't know that Contests were in the anime for a long time like the target audience probably does, maybe I'd be more into it Showcases, but it's kind of difficult to be that invested in her goal when I've seen something similar to it done in a more engaging manner. I'd like for them to include a battle round just to spice things up a bit, but then they might as well have made it into Contests, so I'm not sure what they could do to make that goal significantly better. It is something more to work with than becoming a Water or Dragon type Master and Serena has actually put in effort on screen to make it as a Pokemon Performer, but being glorified Contest appeals still holds it back for me.

 

[Alola]

Simply put, Serena needs more screen-time regarding her goal, to completely flesh it out. Compared to Ash, she rarely gets episodes that revolve around: her training, making new combinations, practicing designing Contest Appe-Showcase outfits, the Showcases themselves and the like. This makes her goals and victories seem less credible and notable. They don't give us the nitty gritty pain that comes behind those results, like they mostly did with Dawn. For example, during her last Showcase, Serena performed a very beautiful appeal with Braixen and Pancham. But did we ever see her train her Pokemon for said appeal, after Braixen's evolution? No. But we get several episodes of Ash training and developing his party's strength for Gym Battles (Ash vs Viola, Grant, Clemont etc), which makes them all the more appreciated and creditable.

It would also help if she caught more Pokemon and showcased a wider variety of talent from her party (you can use six Pokemon in a Free Performance! think of the possibility!), rather than having Braixen light it up as Pancham does whatever.

Additionally, Serena's goal has an unfortunate timer. It also has had a severe lack of time to develop. By the time she entered her first Showcase, the gang had pretty much covered Central Kalos and 80% of Coastal Kalos (think of all the towns/cities that could have had Showcases). She won her first Showcase after Ash won his sixth Kalos badge (and he is soon approaching his 7th). This leaves her victory and future victories with a sense of rush, since the writers undoubtedly will attempt to have the Kalos Queen Competition and Kalos League occur around each other. I was all for Serena taking her time and figuring out what she wants to do in life, but I'm going to be very upset if she starts pulling out BS victories with fire n'rocks because the writers are late for a deadline. We've seen some pretty neat Performances that rival hers, if not better. And speaking of which, the performances should get better as the Princess Keys have a ranking system. Which means that Serena's competition realistically will be that much tougher. I feel that she should lose again, but where is the time?

Then there are the trivial things like how her respective field has essentially been featured in two past female companions journeys and the fact of how sexist and unimaginative the Showcases can be (Seriously, Jessie's Beauty and the Beast idea was creatively beautiful).

At this point, I don't know what the writers can do to give Serena's journey more substance. A possibility would be for her to keep the pace she is going and simply have her respective tournament finale after Ash's Kalos League, but I seriously doubt that would happen.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

For all three mentioned girls there existed ALOT of potential (still does) to be done more with their aspirations, goals and interests.
Regardless of what we got in end with mishandling not meaning there did not existed hidden material and plehora of ways through which likable, charming and gripping storyline of greater impact could be written for all three of them.

To start things of there is:

- MISTY:
Misty water pokemon master career gave out false impression to many people of this being "highly limiting idea which had nowhere to go!". Mixing lack of focus on her dreams and storyline with existence of potential as whole.

But truth is Misty dreams were like open book having so many believable, plausible ways through which her passion and huge love for water pokemon could been explored delivering highly creative and innovative storyline.

It still can because Misty never became water master, her future was left completely undefined staying at gym due to lazy sisters expressing desire to travel again in chronicles not abandoning her career she pursued. Making her story ultimately unfinished and uncleared.

But lets cut the chace and get back on main point and that is in what ways Misty water pokemon master goal could be expanded:

One of very convenient ways is in writers expanding on what sea priestess Maya said and Whirl Cup introduced about sea water heroes and whole connection to water master title(Whirl Cup legitimately introduced events you need to enter and win in order to achieve this title, it just wasnt explored enough). Introducing new water tournaments for Misty to compete in, come closer toward her dream and make name for herself among other experts worldwide.


Comprised of all kind of diverse tasks. Like underwater battling testing trainer adaptability and performance under stressful and un expected situations battling other water specialists. There could be made races with obstacles where opponent can use attacks in stopping opponent or slowing them down. Big tournaments hosted by prestigue trainers like Wallace or E4 Siebold gathering creme among water specialists.

Having Misty and others who pursue water master title having to work on catching pokemon with specific features to have adequate team for every challenge. Developing team which can be good on ground, steel surface, under the water or in air sounds like pretty interesting recipe for unique, viable adventure.

Lets face it; if writers could create anime exclusive events called pokemon performance for Serena. They could had surely done same for Misty having unique tests, events through which pokemon could battle and be promoted.


There could be whole arc revolved around Misty fulfilling her side dream of meeting legendary water pokemon, trying to reach to its feelings, understand their secrets and true nature making her more understanding and knopwledgeable about water pokemon. Which is required from water masters knowing how to develop strong bond and perfect synchronization with water pokemon(something Misty is still in process of learning with her problematic Psyduck reflecting that).

New concept such as mega evolution with Misty trying to mega evolve her pokemon like Gyarados delivers only even more material to expand on this storyline.

Dive into Misty bugphobia by introducing water species like Surskit who is half bug evolving in Masquerine. Exposing Misty to one of biggest fears she has recalling pasr and what caused her to start despising bugs(like they did witg her Gyarados trauma),. Fighting inside between her love for water pokemon and dislike for bug species creating impediment and obstacle for her to advance as water trainer. Not making differences and double criterioa on water pokemon based on her prejudices.

Or her knowledge, skills, inelligence and bond with pokemon being tested by examinators sanctionazed by poke league committee based on Misty performance reporting results to higher authorities. Deciding if she would come in consideration to be promoted to E4 member of water pokemon or be noticed for her exceptional results by E4 members like Lorelei herself deciding to take her as their apprentice.

With Misty not being sure if she is good enough to succeed and leave out good impression on evaluators feeling despondent, sad and unsure of herself searching for strength and reassurance of having enough appeal and talent to make it all the way through.

Potential was/is HUGE.

Reason why this didn't happened during her time was out of numerous reasons i believe. Not only pokemon anime was still very young, it was originally planned to end after Kanto. But writers themselves weren't sure in what direction they wanted to take characters as Takeshi Shudo blogs mentioned several times. About disagreements between themselves and pokemon director being lost at that time with various ideas going around in what they wanted to make out of this anime.

This brings us down to:
-IRIS :
With Iris compared to Misty we have to be realistic and take in consideration hiw chain of element tournament in similar style to Whirl Cup wouldn't be possible for both practical and story management reasons.

Considering how dragons as pokemon specie are simply too scarce and rare not having enough rich pool of options to create substantial filled with diversity storytelling covered through benchmarks oriented specifically toward this type(it would be viable with more abundant and versatile pokemon types like water or flying type, but definitely not dragons).

BUT there existed plenty of other ways through which her dragon master goal could be developed.

For start whole subplot about Axew which was main reason behind Iris even starting journey could been taken somewhere. Living up to its purpose of serving as catalyst through which Iris would learn how to read and better understand dragon emotions establishing close bond. Eventually evolving it all the way to Haxorous fulfiling her baby dragon dream and showcase her growth. In coming closer toward achievement of her dragon master career.

Writers could touch on Iris special powers, such as ability to enter inside dragon minds and memories seeing their past and how they feel(like she did with Dragonite). Explaining from where this ability of hers come from? From who she inherit it(possibly parents?) and have Iris character go through struggles and selfquestioning of whether she should be using this special gift as one of means to achieve her dream of becoming dragon master. Or choose harder way not relying on it going through dilemma of: did she deserved to posess this power?

They could had Iris catch more dragon pokemon to better go in hand with her favoritism and specialty in training one pokemon type. Instead of Excadrill and Emolga being her primary battlers before she got Dragonite. Problem on which her rival Langley addressed as well.

Soeaking of which whole rivalry with Langley who was basically bone hunter on dragon trainers could be fleshed out and make substantial character developmernt both for her and Iris out of it. Giving to feud between them actual closure and provide serious challenge for Iris to overcome convincing Georgia how dragons are valuable pokemon having their qualities.

Cover through existence of dragon master Iris met in person(Drayden)what steps and exams specific title of dragon master entails as whole. Whole connection of this dream to dragon village and elders being amenable in assigning this title to trainers. And what Drayden himself needed to do and overcome to earn that same title proving himself as worthy enough(maybe even mention famous clan of dragon masters being lead by Lance Grandfather).

And last but not the least there is:
-SERENA:
Regarding Serena basically whole skeleton and set up through which her growth can be measured is already made. Through pokemon version of super idol in real life. By having competitions based on beauty, cooking, dancing in fancy dresses and fashion. As sexist as thst may seem due to being forbidden for males to compete.

But there are ways through which Serena dream could gain more substance and diversity.

Such as introducing somesort of competing rounds in master class where girls could evaluate qualities and attributes between themselves. In creating new combination of pokemon techniques and coreography in Free Performance rounds to determine who is better. Allowing to rival themselves actually instead of everything being left to audience.

Maybe some sort of battling as well being expected from Kalos Queen to know how to battle with her pokemon testing strength of bond achieved between girls and their pokemon.

Explore on whole notion of Pokemon showcase being in past judged by judges rather than audience. Being considered possibility of old system being restored under incentive of retired star Palermo. Setting up bar higher for competitors.

Introducing to Serena through Palermo and Elle world of prestigue and glamour this career carry within itself and expose her to pressure and high expectations which come once you gather fans and become famous. Going through fear and insecurity of not knowing if she will be able to cope with it. Etc, etc.
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Epilogue:
In reality there existed/exist lot of meaningful, entertaining and versatile eways through which each of this girls goals and dreams could be explored more.

However sometime due to either lack of writers experience and knowledge in handling something adequatelly, misunderstandings and lack of communication happening between pokemon staff itself in what to make out of someone story and anime(this sabotaged Misty in way due to lot of conflicting ideals and opinions circulating between those who organized story during mr. Shudo reign) or under game influence(since pokemon anime puts advertizing always infront of quality of story sadly).

Caused that some characters were never given chance to live up to their full potential leaving much more to be desired.

On behalf of what dragon master and water pokemon master careers entail:
Dragon master career as far as i recall involves to learn how to understand "hearts of dragon pokemon" and raising into strong battlers with title being given by elders from village. To those who proven to be exceptionally crafty and posess lot of understanding and clear perception about what are dragon pokemon needs and strength.

While for water master goal. It was stated to become stongest water trainer in world. Judging by Misty worshipping E4 Lorelei wanting to reach such power creep one day implied to mean becoming E4(given they are titled as type masters in games being best mono specialists in world).

Perhaps water master goal was most explained during Whirl Cup through sea priest Maya and professor Elm talk. How winner of that ancient tournament with long tradition gets "Alpha Omega of Water Pokemon!"title which was one of names sea heroes( in Japanese convoluted form of water masters)used to obtain using power of water spirits knowing how to read hearts of water pokemon becoming like one.
Being one of tasks required to enter and win in order to come closer toward water master dream progressing forward on more significant level.

Both Misty and Iris suffered from a similar kind of problem. They both kept talking about how they wanted to be a Water type/Dragon type master, but they didn't do nearly as much during their runs to help get closer to their goal. Iris was in more battles than Misty, but they were full of pretty cheap wins and pretty much every accomplishment was handed to her on a silver plate instead of being the result of actual effort. Misty's battles that didn't involve Team Rocket were more infrequent by comparison and she had fewer memorable Pokemon as well.

With Misty i can give her some slack given how writers were just starting out with series being in their craddle. Not to mention OS followed different formula being more Ash centric and according to mr. Shudo blogs pokemon staff still contemplsted in what they really wanted from pokemon anime to become. Mr. Shudo even admitted how there existed plots and ideas for Misty which never had chance to be used and characteristic of her career resembling cogent story didnt happened until Atsuhiro Tomioka took care of her goal in Whirl Islands, when battling Coastline gym leader, evolving her pokemon etc with departure preventing any possible follow up.

For Iris writers already had enough knowledge and experince to provode something more concrete out of her career. Especially with Axew subplot whoch went nowhere. Provide some build up and foreplay prior to catching Dragonite, with Iris possibly going through breakdown feeling shes not ready to own dragon of sich calliber etc. Take her rivalry with Georgia somewhere delivering it actual closure. Clear up connection between elders and dragon village with dragon pokemon master. Etc.

Making it all that more jarring and disapoointing in how writers handled her journey. Ending wasted unfortunately like most plots in BW as result of poor planning and disorganized writing.

Misty actually battled more than Iris did(even outside of TR episodes, something i noticed after finishing my rewatch last year), but i guess her duels were less memorable for most fans probably not remembering most of them. Due to not taking place as often in tournaments like it was case with Iris.

They both needed to be in some kind of competition that helped with their goals. While we don't know what exactly it takes to become a Pokemon Master in the anime, Ash getting Gym battles and competing in the region's League helps to make him become a stronger trainer and closer to his dream. Some kind of similar competition for Water and Dragon Pokemon so that Misty and Iris would have to battle frequently would give them something more to work for than a vague term like being a master and could provide more of a reason for them to travel with Ash than being the token female character of the group.

Not sure if i would call them just token females though, especially Misty. Who was coach and mentor to Ash, voice of reason in keeping Ash ego under control or Brock hormones when going wild. Gave identity to cast through her flirty, courageous, feisty and strongwilled personality.

Along with having crush subplot for Ash, her dreams of becoming water pokemon master and passion for water types through which she gained her identity and purpose behind living, flawes, insecurities and imperfectiond to desl with(Gyarados, inferiority complex imposed by sisters, evaluation of pokemon by exterior sometime or lack of confidence) and that journey still isn't over.

Receiving notable characer development in maturing and changing as person(because she underwent character development regardless of how it was handed imo).

Still i agree how both Misty and Iris needed more substance and focus put into their dreams and goals of becoming type masters respectively. Providing more content in their development and organization of story.

It might have also helped Misty to leave more of her Pokemon behind in the Gym at some point when most of them lacked personality and so that she could have captured some duel Water type Pokemon in the second generation. It would have provided more variety to her team and made it easier to give them different movesets.

Well realistically her starfish pokemon due to lack of anthropomorphic characteristics couldn't efficiently display their emotions. Goldeen didn't showed any personality either.

But all other Misty pokemon had personality(especially Corsola, Poliwhirl/Politoad, Gyarados, Psyduck, even Horsea although he was in cast for so short that character couldn't be fleshed out).

Capturing more of pokemon in second generation delivering higher variety in her team would be highly appreciated, I recall she wanted to catch several new pokemon like Quagsire, Chinchau, Mantine etc. but only Corsola capture came to realization.

Although Hoenn introduced even bigger variety of dual water pokemon, shame she couldn't stick around for that saga. Because she could really benefit from all kind of water themes there.

But i digress.

 

[ManUtd22]

Both Misty and Iris suffered from a similar kind of problem. They both kept talking about how they wanted to be a Water type/Dragon type master, but they didn't do nearly as much during their runs to help get closer to their goal. Iris was in more battles than Misty, but they were full of pretty cheap wins and pretty much every accomplishment was handed to her on a silver plate instead of being the result of actual effort. Misty's battles that didn't involve Team Rocket were more infrequent by comparison and she had fewer memorable Pokemon as well.

They both needed to be in some kind of competition that helped with their goals. While we don't know what exactly it takes to become a Pokemon Master in the anime, Ash getting Gym battles and competing in the region's League helps to make him become a stronger trainer and closer to his dream. Some kind of similar competition for Water and Dragon Pokemon so that Misty and Iris would have to battle frequently would give them something more to work for than a vague term like being a master and could provide more of a reason for them to travel with Ash than being the token female character of the group. It might have also helped Misty to leave more of her Pokemon behind in the Gym at some point when most of them lacked personality and so that she could have captured some duel Water type Pokemon in the second generation. It would have provided more variety to her team and made it easier to give them different movesets.

I am more agree with you in these two Paragraph. To me, I hate the way when Misty beat Ashin the world cup in the silver place. It is so awful. I always laugh when I see Psyduck vs Lickytang. Psyduck don't feel any of lickytang's lick is so comedy, however Misty didn't do anything in that match. But you feel that she isn't that trainer who know everything even if she thought that in the first episodes. I hate her in the first episodes. I hoped ash back his slap to her when she slap him in the first episode. I hate her attidude two. but now you feel she belong to the group by days. I hate what she did to chikorita and todotile in the unbearable episode. I see her episode with the crying marrile. She said that illusion confrotion to ash that he and hoothoot became good just for her and when this happened to her with larvitar, she blamed ash for that. However I still see she became more unjoyble than Iris.

Iris in the another hand, Everything with her is wrong and wrong. I just hate what the people said that it will be a lot of development with her story when she, ash and cilan will be in her villege and when she back the same thing that happenend in the deino, lost Axew, axew and dragon rage episode, Excidrill, episode, don battle, beating Gorgea and beating Carbenet, with beating Dawn, with dragonite happened in the villege of dragon with she back. the same happened with dragon master gym leader clyra. I just hope that drayden that choose her friend in the villege instade of choosing this awful charater. She, Trip and Cameron are the most trrible characters in all anime

to serena, To me, their is unfair to let the fans choose the winner of kalos queen. Look to the serena's episode when she lose. She didn't do anything but because ash, clemont (citron), and his sister are serena's friend they chose her but next time i feel she will her best and i hope that for her and for Jessie too.

but you feel she always recongnize ash because she now that ash who change her life. you feel that she try everythingshe had to learn about pokemon.

 

[jnsharley13]

I think Misty could have been fleshed out more, but unfortunately Togepi got in the way of that. I like May and I think she's a well-balanced character, but after a bit I started to like her less and less. I guess I just couldn't buy that May actually wanted to become a Pokémon Coordinator the rest of her life, when she clearly said in earlier episodes that she wanted to be famous like a TV personality (coordinators and TV hosts are not the same). Dawn was pretty fleshed out, but she was pretty meh to me, and she had too many rivals that each lacked character. Serena is fine and I like her so far. She has her own hobbies like cooking and that's just fine, and she shows that she's a competent person who can let go of the past, and she cuts her hair (in Asian countries hair-cutting is symbolic for change) after saying to herself that she'll let go of that well-meant but impossible goal to be in a relationship with Ash.

 

[Necrozma]

She has her own hobbies like cooking and that's just fine, and she shows that she's a competent person who can let go of the past, and she cuts her hair (in Asian countries hair-cutting is symbolic for change) after saying to herself that she'll let go of that well-meant but impossible goal to be in a relationship with Ash.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's not why Serena cut her hair. And she still has feelings for Ash.

Anyway, I think it would have helped if they aimed for non-vague titles. I mean, Pokémon Master, Dragon Master, Water Pokémon Master - these are all so vague and there aren't really any specific requirements that have to be met in order for them to accomplish their goal, you just try to be a good (Water/Dragon) Pokémon Trainer...and that's pretty much it.

As for Serena's goal, I don't think it needs fleshing out.

The goal of becoming Kalos Queen is pretty well-defined - you participate in Pokémon Showcases in order to win a Princess Key. Once you win three Princess Keys you are eligible for the Master Class tournament in which you have to win in order to attain the title of Kalos Queen. Very simple and straightforward.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Anyway, I think it would have helped if they aimed for non-vague titles. I mean, Pokémon Master, Dragon Master, Water Pokémon Master - these are all so vague and there aren't really any specific requirements that have to be met in order for them to accomplish their goal, you just try to be a good (Water/Dragon) Pokémon Trainer...and that's pretty much it.
.

It may be vague but to be fair rough picture of what this titles represent is already known, as well some of requirements. I mentioned this in my first post, but ill be more elaborative this time:

Pokemon master means becoming strongest pokemon trainer in world asccording to what we heard from Ash several times.

Being already defined how collecting 8 badges, and winning regional league earns you right to enter Champion league. Being one of steps you need to overcome in order to come closer toward that title after you defeat E4 members and champion of specific region.

For Misty water pokemon master goal it was stated to mean becoming strongest water trainer in world. Whirl Cup established connection between "Alpha Omega of Water Pokemon!" winner of that tournament receives and water pokemon master title during whole talk about sea spirits, water heroes etc. Proving to be one of tasks Misty has to win in order to reach her dreams.

Not to mention based on her interest for E4 Lorelei as i covered in previous post and desire to become strong like her one day as mentioned in Orange Islands(something her game counterpart also expressed)planning to leave gym to travel and grow stronger(said in her fame checker in HGSS and Gold Silver). Or fact that E4 members are considered strongest mono trainers in world(in games they're apparently labelled as type masters with E4 Siebold being water master).

Indicates strongly how becoming E4 might mean becoming type master depending on type you specialize in.

For Iris it was stated if im not mistaken how to become dragon master you need to learn how to reach to dragon pokemon hearts and understand their feelings having immense knowledge about them. Achieving perfect synchronization with your pokemon working like one(something Iris started to have moderate success when battling Clair temporarily being able to read Dragonite mind in battle).

With dragon master title being given by dragon village. On top of that in games Lance grandfather is elder of famous clan of dragon masters. So even in games titles like dragon master, water master etc do exist.

Admittedly we didn't received all pieces of puzzle with path to get there being unpolished and unexplained in some aspects. Due to all tasks and test you need to enter and win not being explored and explained (something which could been changed being more explained if writers dive deeper in Ash story or ever revisit Iris/Misty stories).

But primary objective of what this careers entail is known and confirmed if you ask me.

 

[MrMeowPuss]

They could have been MUCH more fleshed out!

Misty really should have been the second protagonist (I know Pokefan123 has mentioned in another thread that Brock, Ash and Misty were all meant to share the spotlight) and there was so much potential for her to grow. The Pokemon anime has unlimited potential so the writers could have easily came up with ways to keep her story interesting. If they had explored Misty's relationship with Ash more that could have created a lot more story lines too.

I personally feel like Serena's character has received next to no development. I'm up to date with the dub and while Ash nearly has all his badges, it feels like Serena has barely even got a chance to do her showcases. The Pokemon series really needs to take Ash's companions more seriously and give them the development they deserve.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Type specialization is really silly to begin with. I'm willing to wager my bottom dollar that that exist primarily for two reasons. The first being to make the games easier. The second being to make the characters more distinguishable by giving most of bosses pun names and elemental themed designs.

A fire wizard makes sense because the wizard is doing all the spell casting so, if you want burn things really well you don't waste time learning zapping spells. However the trainer isn't the one fighting so, what's the point? I mean people irl life use mono teams because they find it cool or for a self imposed challenge. But the thing is pokemon training isn't just a game to Pokemon from their perspective as fictitious beings it is real life. Nobody goes to college says "Hey I know my future prospects and ego are on the line but, wouldn't it be cool if I type all my essays with stones hanging on strings tied to my fingers?" and stays committed to it.

At the end of day Iris and Misty's goals are about being strong battlers. So why not compete in the league? If their answer is "As a mono trainer I'd get wrecked." then that would be basically saying their choices are suboptimal. I mean all the elite 4 are monotype trainers so, specialization must have a long term benefit lore wise. So show the audience what it is the kinda do a little to make gym matches more intense.

 

[Solar Beam]

Hm...I don't really know why, but I think Misty is the first one of the three to have a step in her dream of being a strong Water-type trainer. A Gym Leader specializes in one type, so if Misty proves to challengers how well she works with Water Pokemon, her reputation will become positive. I don't really know why people think her being a Gym Leader is a detriment because it's very beneficial to her, in my opinion.

Iris...well, she's doing something different from Misty. She's probably going to go around challenging Dragon-type trainers and catching Dragon-type Pokemon along the way. With the way she battled and lost to Clair, that's probably what I think she's going to do. Drayden also wants her to be Opelucid City Gym Leader, so after she trains, she'll become a Gym Leader that will strengthen her love for Dragon types.

Serena, I think her development is rather slow, but it's fitting for her since she's not much of a battler. She's looking for her dream, and then she found one, like normal people. She messed up, and decides to cut her hair and change her outfit as a resolve to work even harder and to never give up again.

It's slow because I'm sure showcases are like an audition program. I've seen several Korean shows where trainees from a popular agency gather and work hard to perform and to see if their hard work allows them to debut as an idol. Some get eliminated, some get through. It's a slow process, but it seems quite fast due to edits. It reminds me of Serena.

Serena's showcase episodes are slow because she has to go around and practice. If she gives the same performance, people would be bored. It's slow because people expect greater things from her. I'm probably someone with an unpopular opinion, but I think Serena's slow development is very fitting for her because she's slowly achieving her goals. My dream is to be a writer, and I'm always working hard on writing stories and sending them to literary magazines (that's a VERY slow process--even slower than Serena's. Heck, I submitted a short story to a literary magazine back in May, and I still don't have an email reply to that magazine even though it's September already)

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Hm...I don't really know why, but I think Misty is the first one of the three to have a step in her dream of being a strong Water-type trainer. A Gym Leader specializes in one type, so if Misty proves to challengers how well she works with Water Pokemon, her reputation will become positive. I don't really know why people think her being a Gym Leader is a detriment because it's very beneficial to her, in my opinion

Its not that gym is viewed as detriment. I mean i dont perceive it that way myself.

But can position of gym leader who use water pokemon make someone water type pokemon master?
Not really.

Being overlooked how main reason aside from being fed up with sisters behind Misty leaving her position as gym leader when traveling and meeting Ash was to pursue dream of becoming water master. If she could achieve that goal as gym leader, she wouldn't go on journey in first place.

How not gym leaders, but E4 members are strongest mono pokemon type trainers in world with water master involving to be strongest water trainer in world(in reality E4 member). With Misty wishing to become recognized and powerful like E4 one day(if her fascination over Lorelei is something to take in account).
Most of all it was already showed in Whirl Cup how competing and winning in specialized tasks like this serve as stepping stones, benchmarks in someone coming closer toward acquiring title of water pokemon master. Just like contests do for coordinators, or gym badges for Ash who wants to become pokemon master.

And this is something which shouldn't be ignored or taken easily because as i mentioned in previous posts. There was accentuated specific connection between this kind of tournaments(Whirl Cup) and whole water master dream Misty wanted to accomplish. Meaning entering this specific tournaments and winning them is required/desierable to make name for yourself worldwide and overcome procedures to earn this prestigious title.

I believe gym can help in Misty achieving her dreams partially. But is it enough and provide required knowledge, experience and all kind of innovative techniques which you can only learn by traveling, entering competitions and meeting other type specualists/experts. Allowing someone to achieve mastery over type of pokemon they specialize in?

I have to be realistic and say no(not even close) for all mentioned reasons.

 

[BlackButterfree]

All of the girls' goals were pretty ignored, minus May and Dawn.

Misty - Wants to be a Water-type Pokémon Master. To me, that would probably entail beating the very best Water-type Trainers out there (Juan, Wallace, Crasher Wake, Cress, Marlon and Siebold) while also catching and/or encountering every Water-type Pokémon (124, according to Bulbapedia). Instead, she follows Ash around because she has a crush, while using her bike as an excuse, is most well-known for owning a FAIRY type, which she later released in her penultimate appearance in the show, and she's now currently stuck in Cerulean City as its Gym Leader where the newest Water-type she's been exposed to is Luvdisc. Though in defense of her little crush, Ash HAS met pretty much every Pokémon out there, so staying with him would've helped her goal for sure.

Iris - Wants to be a Dragon-type Pokémon Master. Again, she'd have to defeat the Dragon-type specialists (Lance, Clair, Drake, Drayden and Drasna) while encountering every Dragon-type Pokémon, of which there are 40. She does nothing to further this goal and in fact consistently gets beaten by other Dragon-type users, such as Drayden.

Serena - Wants to be what is essentially a beauty pageant contestant, and win the title of Kalos Queen. Considering how Serena is the girliest companion since Dawn (both are obsessed with fashion and hair and other pretty things), this is actually a good goal for her. But like... I don't care about it. It has no equivalent in the manga, no equivalent in the games, no equivalent in any spin-off and so I'm bored with it and it doesn't interest me. Maybe if it was an actual fashion show and she was a model, I'd be interested since the games actually do put quite a focus on style, but then it wouldn't be Pokémon-related.

But every Pokégirl has been fleshed out personality-wise, and I think we can all agree that the first three were the best. Iris was a bit annoying and Serena is still too shallow to care about.

 

[UxieLover1994]

Instead, she follows Ash around because she has a crush, while using her bike as an excuse, is most well-known for owning a FAIRY type, which she later released in her penultimate appearance in the show, and she's now currently stuck in Cerulean City as its Gym Leader where the newest Water-type she's been exposed to is Luvdisc.

Togetic was a Normal-type in Generation III (when Misty last appeared), and it's Bulbapedia article still treats it as Normal/Flying. Same goes for other Fairy-type Pokémon, manga or anime, that hasn't appeared in Generation VI.

 

[Paladin Elric]

Here are a few things that Veronica Taylor had to say about Misty and May:
(in the first clip it starts 2 minutes in and the second is 1:20)


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhvWOzHb3o8


This is her response to Ash and Serena:


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdWPQjQ474U

 

[Lucifer Angel]

About Serena I could of her goal about wanting to become Kalos Queen could have been introduced. Earlier in the anime as it could have been worked on with more character development.

 

[Cybersai]

Out of curiosity could someone summarize what Veronica says in those youtube videos? I don't really want to watch through the whole thing.

 

[Paladin Elric]

In the first one, she talks about what it was like playing both Ash and May, along with amusing insight on Misty's role early in the series.
In the second one, she gets asked about Ash and Serena and isn't very familiar with it.
In both videos, different subjects get discussed, so it'd be good to fast forward to the parts mentioned. But I recommend viewing them. She says some cool things.

 

[NettFox]

In the first one, she talks about what it was like playing both Ash and May, along with amusing insight on Misty's role early in the series.
In the second one, she gets asked about Ash and Serena and isn't very familiar with it.
In both videos, different subjects get discussed, so it'd be good to fast forward to the parts mentioned. But I recommend viewing them. She says some cool things.

Why could they not keep her, Eric, and Rachel on the show. Now they're based in LA and Eric is retired so that is never gonna change anytime soon unless they jumped through hoops for it. I mean I hear how MLP is scratch track dubbed with someone filling in for Twilight/Tara Strong though that is a western based animation so its probably different for that scenario. Yet why don't they have some form of parallel in recent Pokemon dubs for XY if they can afford to redub soundtracks that most find lacking and poor in comparison to the original. I can find the replacements to be good on their own roles yet not as replacements for the original charm of the main characters they replaced when it came to Ash and J&J which is all most really want to hear out of them in Pokemon while COTD and recurring can be voiced by anyone else. Still that's just some disappointment over PUSA replacements that linger.