How would you feel if Goh Fully Evolved all 3 of his Starters?

[Rainbow-Rain]

Since this has started becoming a bit of a Topic

I've noticed some people on Twitter are happy with the possibility and others are not.

Should Goh have all 3 Fully evolved Starters?

Considering all 3 of the Galar Starters Final Stages are more Popular than their Bases, there's a possibility, Goh could get all 3 of his Starters fully evolved.

With Cinderace already here and Sobble confirmed to be evolving very soon,
Do you think Grookey will evolve as well?

I have seen people state Reasons why they wouldn't be happy with the possibility:

-Ash has never had 3 Fully Evolved Starters in a single Generation before before

-Goh might be getting things handed to him on a Silver Platter and will undeniably become a "Creator's Pet"

-Having Sobble and Grookey fully evolve will take away Cinderace's "unique-ness" (I disagree with this personally)

-Some people just don't like the Final Stages

-This might destroy Hop's chances of appearing (A lot of people like him)

On the other hand, I've seen Reasons people say they would be happy for the following reasons:

-People would get to see their favorite Final Stage Galar Starter on the Main Cast

-That the Marketing Curse could be over and another Trend would be broken

-There would be no "Piplup/Oshawott/Chespin/Rowlet" aka the Unfunny Comic Relief Gagmon on the Main Cast

-This will help Goh fill his Pokedex and maybe catch Mew

-This might destroy Hop's chances of appearing XD (A lot of people also hate him)

What do you think?

 

[Kurolegacy]

Personally, I’d completely hate it because it would just be yet another notch to the special treatment that is reserved to Go and nobody else. Almost 25 years of the anime in which the cast actively used their Pokémon and we could never have the entire trio of starters evolve because at least one had to be designated the cutemon yet the time that they choose to break that trend, they give all 3 to the guy who barely does anything with the Pokémon he catches. At that point, we’d have fully evolved starters doing possibly the least interesting activity out of any previous saga that gave us some great moments with fully evolved starters (sans poor Torterra).

 

[Emmy]

I am completely indifferent.

 

[skiittylalis]

should all of gohs starters fully evolve?? short answer from me: HARD NO. i think a lot of things about the possibility of goh obtaining three fully evolved starters relates to some key issues of goh himself but this is journeys what problems DONT stem from the experiment of goh

i TOTALLY agree with all of ops reasons. ash has never gotten a fully evolved starter team in the 7 regions hes pocketed monsters so having not only the "rookie" of the series, but the rookie who detests battling obtain three powerhouse pokemon just feels INCREDIBLY unfair to ash. ash regularly trained his pokemon to help them grow stronger and thats what you have to do in the games to help your pokemon evolve!! meanwhile, as just stated, goh hates battling. raboot/cinderace was already tiptoeing the line because scorbunny battled like twice before evolving and raboot did another two or so battles to evolve into cinderace, so it felt super contrived for a pokemon owned by a kid who never trains his pokemon to evolve to final form before episode 50. and sobble is supposed to evolve after ONE episode of focus?? ash mostly earns his pokemons evolutions (there are a few exceptions like charizard but those are far and few) by helping them unlock their true potential, while goh does practically nothing in terms of actually WANTING his pokemon to get stronger

this in turn pushes goh even closer to the dangerous territory of a creators pet!! creators pets tend to get everything for doing nothing because "this character is the best one in the story they deserve everything to reflect how awesomely important they are" and once again: goh doesnt do much with the galar starters (before someone says "sobble episode" i will admit that he doesnt do NOTHING but one focus episode is NOT enough to warrant saying he trains with them) so it would come off as the writers pampering goh and handing him something ash just wasnt able to do in 23 years on a silver platter and would 100% cement his fate as a creators pet/marty stu

also something op didnt mention: more focus on the galar starters because they HAVE to have at least one episode dedicated to them to "prove" they deserve an undeserved evolution would once again tip the scale of balance in favor of goh. we all know journeys has balance issues and having goh get even more focus episodes when ash desperately needs SOMETHING to do rubs me the wrong way. i know goh is the new kid and the series new kids need focus to develop them but 1) the writers ironed out gohs flaws WAY too fast so imo hes become a very stagnate character and 2) what can i say gohs focus is overpowering and suffocating ash we've heard this one before

this point doesnt relate to the anime at all and i despise the galar starter final evos (what happened to pocket MONSTERS these look like anthros) but maybe thats a little reason i would hate to see it. but the tldr of this post is that giving goh three fully evolved starters when he hates battling and never does anything with his pokemon feels like another way the writers are trying to force goh to be ashs "equal" in less than half the time it took characters like dawn or may to reach this same level, and it not only undermines ash as he was never able to fully evolve three starter pokemon in a single series, but other companions because they would look like theyve accomplished jack compared to goh despite working harder than he ever has

 

[swiftgallade46]

I am honestly indifferent as to the fact that I’m they are Goh’s Pokémon, but I am happy that they are all finally fully evolving. The whole “Goh is handed everything he gets/is a writers pet” phrase is repeated after nearly everything he does. It really has lost any meaningful connotation.
One of Hop’s main Pokémon has always been Dubwool, so I don’t think this discounts him from appearing either.

 

[Kurolegacy]

Also in response to some of the reasons that it’s apparently good:

-People would get to see their favorite Final Stage Galar Starter on the Main Cast:

Why should the Galar starters be deemed so special that people get that fan service now but not in the prior series. Hell, it’s not even a sure fire good thing even then. For example, I absolutely love Cinderace and Inteleon but hate the fact that I won’t get to see them doing anything remotely interesting. Even should they be used in wild battles, those simply don’t compare to trainer battles in which Pokémon battle in unorthodox ways that you wouldn’t see them doing as wild Pokémon.

-That the Marketing Curse could be over and another Trend would be broken:

As I’ve stated before, breaking a trend doesn’t mean that something interesting comes of it especially when it feels like it’s done simply for the sake of doing it. As it stands, the trends they’ve broken thus far haven’t led to anything truly interesting to take its place.

-This might destroy Hop's chances of appearing XD (A lot of people also hate him:

That’s honestly a terrible mentality to have. Like him or not, Hop had an important role within the story of gen 8 and to either it him entirely or give him the Hau treatment would be terrible writing especially given that he’s Leon’s brother.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

That’s honestly a terrible mentality to have. Like him or not, Hop had an important role within the story of gen 8 and to either it him entirely or give him the Hau treatment would be terrible writing especially given that he’s Leon’s brother.

Tbh this is actually a good reason to not want Hop to show up. (Same for Bede for that matter)

I honestly can't see what the Writer's can do with Hop at this point except giving him the Hau treatment (in which in that case his only purpose would be to show-off a Starter's Final Stage Evolution and nothing else)

His important role in the games has already been hijacked by Gou in the DD Arc
Bede's storyline is incredibly blotched too.

The only Galar Rival that would be usable without having force any major changes is Marnie (and that's only because Marnie wasn't really relevant to the story to begin with)

 

[Kurolegacy]

I am honestly indifferent as to the fact that I’m they are Goh’s Pokémon, but I am happy that they are all finally fully evolving. The whole “Goh is handed everything he gets/is a writers pet” phrase is repeated after nearly everything he does. It really has lost any meaningful connotation.
One of Hop’s main Pokémon has always been Dubwool, so I don’t think this discounts him from appearing either.

Simply because something is repeated doesn’t make it invalid. As people have said numerous times, Go simply doesn’t work for the things that he’s given. Compare his treatment by the writers to any past main character and there is a stark contrast. Past characters actually had struggles with their Pokémon and were seen working with them which in turn the Pokémon grew stronger under their care. Meanwhile, Go isn’t. He’ll instead get maybe one time of focus with a Pokémon and then just be handed his prize as if he’s earned it. It’s honestly annoying to watch how easy Go has it compared to everyone that’s come before him considering it makes him come across as a writer’s pet.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Simply because something is repeated doesn’t make it invalid. As people have said numerous times, Go simply doesn’t work for the things that he’s given. Compare his treatment by the writers to any past main character and there is a stark contrast. Past characters actually had struggles with their Pokémon and were seen working with them which in turn the Pokémon grew stronger under their care. Meanwhile, Go isn’t. He’ll instead get maybe one time of focus with a Pokémon and then just be handed his prize as if he’s earned it. It’s honestly annoying to watch how easy Go has it compared to everyone that’s come before him considering it makes him come across as a writer’s pet.

It loses meaning when it’s used after anything he does. I’m not saying he’s rightfully earned everything he’s done, but the opposite certainly isn’t true and it gets tiring to listen to this phrase on repeat whenever he gets/does anything. Goh has earned plenty.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'm fine with it, or at least I'm not against the idea at the moment. I haven't caught up with the Netflix releases yet, so I can't judge on Raboot's evolution yet, but since I was relatively fine with Scorbunny's evolution despite being rather sudden, I'm probably not going to be bothered on how it becomes Cinderace. Sobble eventually becoming an Inteleon is a given after it started to admire its evolved form. I don't know if I see Grookey evolving at the moment, but it was just recently caught. The whole complaint that Ash never got all fully evolved starters of a generation before feels kind of moot to me. Just because it never happened to Ash doesn't mean that Goh isn't allowed to get three fully evolved starters.

I'm not sure if it's really giving him Pokemon on a silver plate either. I didn't really get that impression with Raboot and it's hard to judge that with Drizzle or Grookey's possible evolutions when none of those have happened yet. Compared to other instances of characters getting Pokemon handed to them with little to no effort, such as Dawn's Togekiss, Iris' Dragonite and arguably Ash's Goodra, Cinderace doesn't frustrate me in that sense. I'm more baffled at just why they wanted to rush through its evolution within the first year rather than being upset that it happened, especially if Journeys is going to last more than three years like some people speculate. It does limit what they can do with Cinderace, but it doesn't give me the impression that Goh was handed a powerful Pokemon for nothing exactly either.

As for Hop, I don't think that this really hurts his chances to appear, mainly because I'm not sure how good his chances are at this rate anyway. His role in the Darkest Day arc was pretty important for his character development, but even without factoring that in, I don't think that they could handle his storyline particularly well. If they wanted to adapt his storyline for the anime, they ideally needed to introduce Hop a lot sooner. I don't want Hop to get the SM Hau treatment. If they want to bring in Hop just to showcase Grookey's evolved forms, I'd prefer it for Goh's Grookey to evolve instead. That would be the better option out of the two in my opinion.

I'm willing to see how these evolutions are handled before being upset about it.

 

[Kurolegacy]

It loses meaning when it’s used after anything he does. I’m not saying he’s rightfully earned everything he’s done, but the opposite certainly isn’t true and it gets tiring to listen to this phrase on repeat whenever he gets/does anything. Goh has earned plenty.

It might lose meaning to you because you’re indifferent to these thing about Go, but the fact that it resonates so much within the fandom, it has merit. And of course a complaint is going to be repeated when nothing is ever done about the issue that’s the cause of it. Why would a complaint disappear if the underlying issue is still present?

 

[swiftgallade46]

It might lose meaning to you because you’re indifferent to these thing about Go, but the fact that it resonates so much within the fandom, it has merit. And of course a complaint is going to be repeated when nothing is ever done about the issue that’s the cause of it. Why would a complaint disappear if the underlying issue is still present?

I would agree, but that isn’t the case. What’s happening is some people have a bias against Goh and are therefore writing off all or at least the vast majority of his actions and accomplishments as him being a “Writer’s Pet” instead of evaluating things individually. Is it objectively wrong to say classify his actions this way? No. Does it make it lose meaning? Yes.

Edit: And, by the way, in regards to your first sentence: these are my own thoughts. I’m not speaking for anyone but myself and those who happen to agree with me. I really couldn’t care less what resonates with the fandom; that’s not how I form my opinions.

 

[Unireon]

I can't see how making the three fully evolved starters join the Main Cast counts as fanservice....
They will vanish after a few episodes, look how Aceburn hasn't done anything meaningful in the last episodes.

I don't think that that is fair for any Pokemon, especially Starters that represent their Generation/Region.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I would agree, but that isn’t the case. What’s happening is some people have a bias against Goh and are therefore writing off all or at least the vast majority of his actions and accomplishments as him being a “Writer’s Pet” instead of evaluating things individually. Is it objectively wrong to say classify his actions this way? No. Does it make it lose meaning? Yes.

Edit: And, by the way, in regards to your first sentence: these are my own thoughts. I’m not speaking for anyone but myself and those who happen to agree with me. I really couldn’t care less what resonates with the fandom; that’s not how I form my opinions.

Except even when you look at him in a vacuum without thinking of any other character, it doesn’t change the fact that we do not see him put in anything more than the bare minimum of effort with anything yet be rewarded for it. We hardly ever see him train his Pokémon with instead most of their time being dedicated to them just standing there like fixtures yet after a single point of focus he’s earned his Pokémon evolving? What kind of development is that supposed to be? Surely doesn’t feel earned. He doesn’t practice but just watches Ash and suddenly he can imitate Ash’s unpredictable style and battle well despite having a different mindset to Ash? Doesn’t feel realistic. Have an episodes plot have the stars align simply so he can get what he’s after no matter how contrived? Doesn’t feel realistic. Considering just how much the writers have things go his way, it’s no wonder people deem him a writers pet. In really any series where you follow a character’s story, when things go as easy as they have for Go, those characters aren’t the most interesting ones to follow because of the lack of conflict or challenge. And for Go, the writers have been tipping the scales too much in his favor far too fast.

 

[Daren]

I voted that I don't care, but thinking about for a bit I believe all the starters being shown off as fully evolved protagonists is long overdue. The great majority of players will fully evolve theirs in the games, after all.

Can't change my vote officially, though.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Spoiler

Except even when you look at him in a vacuum without thinking of any other character, it doesn’t change the fact that we do not see him put in anything more than the bare minimum of effort with anything yet be rewarded for it. We hardly ever see him train his Pokémon with instead most of their time being dedicated to them just standing there like fixtures yet after a single point of focus he’s earned his Pokémon evolving? What kind of development is that supposed to be? Surely doesn’t feel earned. He doesn’t practice but just watches Ash and suddenly he can imitate Ash’s unpredictable style and battle well despite having a different mindset to Ash? Doesn’t feel realistic. Have an episodes plot have the stars align simply so he can get what he’s after no matter how contrived? Doesn’t feel realistic. Considering just how much the writers have things go his way, it’s no wonder people deem him a writers pet. In really any series where you follow a character’s story, when things go as easy as they have for Go, those characters aren’t the most interesting ones to follow because of the lack of conflict or challenge. And for Go, the writers have been tipping the scales too much in his favor far too fast.

Never said anything about looking at him in a vacuum. Some people are just very reductive when it comes to looking at him as a character and tend to ignore things he actually does to earn or explain how he accomplishes certain things.

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

I can't see how making the three fully evolved starters join the Main Cast counts as fanservice....
They will vanish after a few episodes, look how Aceburn hasn't done anything meaningful in the last episodes.

I don't think that that is fair for any Pokemon, especially Starters that represent their Generation/Region.

I can at least understand why People prefer that over seeing them go to Hop.

Look at what happened to Decidueye last Generation.

It only showed up like 3 times and jobbed nearly every appearance it made.

It lost to its own Base Stage which stings even worse

Every single Generation, there's at least one fan of a certain Starter who has to dread seeing their fave show up with the Rival and cementing their only appearences as getting their ass kicked by Ash's Pokemon or worse their own Pre-Evos


I can see why people would rather see Their favorite Starters become background characters rather than that embarrassing fate

 

[Yuukii]

Never said anything about looking at him in a vacuum. Some people are just very reductive when it comes to looking at him as a character and tend to ignore things he actually does to earn or explain how he accomplishes certain things.

Serious question. What has he earned by putting in more than minimum effort?

 

[Vulpes Incarnatus]

Never said anything about looking at him in a vacuum. Some people are just very reductive when it comes to looking at him as a character and tend to ignore things he actually does to earn or explain how he accomplishes certain things.

sadly for you, most of the genuine stuff he earned is a very very tiny minority and completely overshadowed by every other 'earning' that has been through the bending of the writing fates to favor him

calling people reductive and saying their proper criticisms have 'lost meaning' is quite unprofessional of you

 

[swiftgallade46]

Serious question. What has he earned by putting in more than minimum effort?

Drizzile, the Eating Contest, a bunch of his captures, seeing Zapdos, evolving Scyther...plenty more I don’t really feel like listing. But yeah, at least plenty more than people give him credit for.

sadly for you, most of the genuine stuff he earned in a very very tiny minority and completely overshadowed by every other 'earning' that has been through the bending of the writing fates to favor him

Nah, that’s just your opinion. I’m not sad about it because I don’t find it to be true. I just continue appreciating his character how I’d like to. I’m still free to talk about it here.

calling people reductive and saying their legit criticisms have 'lost meaning' is quite unprofessional of you

Let’s not try to frame this personally for no reason. I specifically said “some people”, not all. I also said these are specifically my opinions and perceptions. What’s “unprofessional” is trying to spin a simple disagreement into something it isn’t.