Preview HZ001: The Pendant of Beginning, Part 1 ・HZ002: The Pendant of Beginning, Part 2

[Articfoxgamez]

Side thing, what's up with the song in the Japanese preview? Was it just removed from the English version due to not having English lyrics or is it like, the opening or something?

 

[Kurolegacy]

As long as Liko still gets a full team of 6 I'm fine with her goal not being super battle focused.

Well if they don’t give her any kind of battle focused goal but give her a full team, she’d need to have something that allows her Pokémon to shine. We don’t want another Go situation where her Pokémon don’t do much beyond standing around.

 

[Articfoxgamez]

Well if they don’t give her any kind of battle focused goal but give her a full team, she’d need to have something that allows her Pokémon to shine. We don’t want another Go situation where her Pokémon don’t do much beyond standing around.

I mean, if they are adventuring could always have the Pokemon help solve puzzles or whatever. Easier to do that with just 6 Pokemon than however many Goh had. (That and she still has to deal with the rival person every now and again)

 

[Eitarou]

There’s actually a third option they could have gone with: Manzana Academy, which is an option for an interview in-game.


Now that I think about it, this is likely the reason we start in Kanto in the first place: to have the two protagonists be able to meet each other!



I really wish they would have named the school after a fruit to keep up the Gen 9 theme naming for the revealed schools. Besides, what does quartz have anything to do with Kanto anyhow? It just sounds like some random name unless they plan on having the boarding school take place in Pewter City (in which case Brock better be the health instructor).

"Sekiei" is the Japanese name for the Indigo Plateau.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

My issue is that I'm skeptical of them being more willing to have a battle active female lead when they have been avoiding that for years.

Past is past. It doesn't matter what happened in the past. Even then, most of serious battles Satoshi had in JN were against female characters, so it's not like they were against using them in battle related stuff.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Well, old shoes left behind, shiny new shoes for the road. Can’t say I have high expectations for this, but it sure has my interest.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Well, old shoes left behind, shiny new shoes for the road. Can’t say I have high expectations for this, but it sure has my interest.

Like Satoshi do, it's sometines harder to give up on the old and recognizable.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Past is past. It doesn't matter what happened in the past. Even then, most of serious battles Satoshi had in JN were against female characters, so it's not like they were against using them in battle related stuff.

No, I think it does matter what happened in the past. I don't think that having new characters and a new status quo will necessarily change any of the writing issues the anime has or that they won't have similar kind of problems going forward. And yes, they had Ash against plenty of female characters in Journeys, so they weren't against having girls in battles. My point is that not having a proper female lead in Journeys was a huge problem and I don't think having Ash battling female characters in the series, most of which were from the games, really changes that. They didn't make battles exclusive to just boys, but not having a proper female lead and instead had the main cast just be Ash and Goh still gave off some sexist implications, whether or not that was intentional.

 

[Poke Trey]

Still continuing with the show will be so hard to do after today. Still, gonna give this another shot.

 

[BigDocFan]

To me, Liko struggling to bond with Sprigatito at first isn't surprising, curious to see how they'll go about being the first of friends

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

No, I think it does matter what happened in the past. I don't think that having new characters and a new status quo will necessarily change any of the writing issues the anime has or that they won't have similar kind of problems going forward.

No, but new director and staff does.

 

[Hidden Mew]

No, but new director and staff does.

They may still have the same kind of writing problems or perhaps new ones. Having new people behind the creative team might help, but I'm not confident that it will drastically change everything about the anime writing wise either.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

They may still have the same kind of writing problems or perhaps new ones.

You can't use "We don't know if she's a battler yet" and then "I have no proof but they might do it" in same argument. What's the point of complaining about things that might happen or not? It's just bad faith for the sake of having bad faith.

 

[Jaye]

My issue is that I'm skeptical of them being more willing to have a battle active female lead when they have been avoiding that for years. Regardless of being the new main lead, it's hard for me to see them being willing to make Liko more into battling when they didn't even want a proper female lead in just the previous series.

This makes zero sense.

Misty, May, Dawn, and Iris all battled. We've had a plethora of female rival characters who battled. Being a female character was never an impediment to being a battler in this show, so why would it be with Liko? If anything, the plot as we know it makes it even more likely she's going to be battling because the central conflict seems to be revolving around her and the pendant, and this show traditionally uses battles to resolve its conflicts.

You're basically saying that because Chloe didn't battle, we're not going to get another female battler, even though Chloe existed in the same series as Marnie, Bea, Korrina, Cynthia, Diantha... the list goes on. She's very much an exception, not a rule.

You can hardly compare her to Liko. Chloe was a supporting character from the start, while Liko is front and centre of all of Horizon's marketing and being given main protagonist status. She's clearing being given a greater importance in this series than Chloe got in hers.

 

[Unireon]

As for now; I am more interested on Roy, his character, background, goal and development.
Currently Riko seems more like a Satoshi-rehash attempt, this opinion could change.

Despite my concerns about Paldea being shafted, I will give this series a shot.

 

[Hidden Mew]

You can't use "We don't know if she's a battler yet" and then "I have no proof but they might do it" in same argument. What's the point of complaining about things that might happen or not? It's just bad faith for the sake of having bad faith.

I don't really see my response as saying "I have no proof but they might do it" exactly. All I have been trying to say is that I don't have a lot of faith about them making Liko more battle active because of how they've handled female leads for the past few series. I know that she isn't in the same role as Serena, Chloe, etc, but when they have been avoiding battle active female leads for so long, I just don't have a lot of confidence that it will be significantly different for Liko, even with her being the main lead. I am not trying to say that you're wrong and I'm right or anything like that. I am trying to explain why I am not particularly optimistic about how they'll handle Liko. I don't expect a complete shift from how they've handled writing female characters for years even with her being the main lead. That is all.

This makes zero sense.

Misty, May, Dawn, and Iris all battled. We've had a plethora of female rival characters who battled. Being a female character was never an impediment to being a battler in this show, so why would it be with Liko? If anything, the plot as we know it makes it even more likely she's going to be battling because the central conflict seems to be revolving around her and the pendant, and this show traditionally uses battles to resolve its conflicts.

You're basically saying that because Chloe didn't battle, we're not going to get another female battler, even though Chloe existed in the same series as Marnie, Bea, Korrina, Cynthia, Diantha... the list goes on. She's very much an exception, not a rule.

You can hardly compare her to Liko. Chloe was a supporting character from the start, while Liko is front and centre of all of Horizon's marketing and being given main protagonist status. She's clearing being given a greater importance in this series than Chloe got in hers.

I don't think that I've been clear enough here. While I have been bringing up Chloe as a recent example, I have also mentioned that they've been avoiding battle active female leads for years. This did not start with Chloe, but something that has been an issue for a better part of a decade. This is a big reason why I don't have a lot of confidence that it will be significantly different with Liko. It is not just because of Chloe or just because this is coming right after Journeys. I've also tried to say that I don't think that she'll never battle or run away from battling. I just have my doubts about her being a battler or having a battle active goal.

And yes, there were other female trainers battling in Journeys, but I already said that I don't think that negates the issue with not having a proper female lead in the cast. It didn't make Pokemon battles exclusive for boys exactly, but I think having the main cast being two boys while the token girl mostly stayed on the sidelines still gave off some questionable implications there, even if that wasn't the writers' intent, and I don't think having Ash battle against a few female trainers negates that.

 

[Jaye]

I don't think that I've been clear enough here. While I have been bringing up Chloe as a recent example, I have also mentioned that they've been avoiding battle active female leads for years. This did not start with Chloe, but something that has been an issue for a better part of a decade. This is a big reason why I don't have a lot of confidence that it will be significantly different with Liko. It is not just because of Chloe or just because this is coming right after Journeys. I've also tried to say that I don't think that she'll never battle or run away from battling. I just have my doubts about her being a battler or having a battle active goal.

And yes, there were other female trainers battling in Journeys, but I already said that I don't think that negates the issue with not having a proper female lead in the cast. It didn't make Pokemon battles exclusive for boys exactly, but I think having the main cast being two boys while the token girl mostly stayed on the sidelines still gave off some questionable implications there, even if that wasn't the writers' intent, and I don't think having Ash battle against a few female trainers negates that.

The premise for this argument is still flimsy. We had ONE series where the female lead wasn't as prominent as her male counterparts, immediately being proceeded by a new series with a female lead who is MORE prominent than her male counterpart, yet you're using the exception as the reason to be sceptical about how they're going to treat Liko. You're trying to use a recent pattern to intuit how a new character is going to be treated in a franchise that has shown itself very willing to change things up whenever it wants to.

To demonstrate this, if we say Misty, May, Dawn and Iris were all battlers, we'd assume Serena would be to, if we're going by the pattern. Yet, she, Lillie, Lana, Mallow and Chloe weren't heavy battlers. The pattern's been broken. So should we assume Liko would follow in their footsteps? Well, no, because history suggests there're no set rules they have to follow. Like how SM threw out the journey concept. Or how Journeys threw out the singular region concept. Or how Ash went from losing his major battles to winning them. Or how they decided Ash and Team Rocket are no longer going to be part of the show. We can't use the show's history and track record as a predictive tool. The only thing we can use is the information immediately available to us, and that information is Liko is involved in at least two battles in the first episode and possesses an object a seemingly antagonistic group is after, which might lead to future battles. There's nothing there that should cause us to doubt Liko will be involved in battles throughout this series.

 

[Hidden Mew]

The premise for this argument is still flimsy. We had ONE series where the female lead wasn't as prominent as her male counterparts, immediately being proceeded by a new series with a female lead who is MORE prominent than her male counterpart, yet you're using the exception as the reason to be sceptical about how they're going to treat Liko. You're trying to use a recent pattern to intuit how a new character is going to be treated in a franchise that has shown itself very willing to change things up whenever it wants to.

Again, I don't know if I'm being clear. I am not basing this just on one series or on one female character. This is based on how multiple female caracters have handled through multiple series. I'm not just focused on Chloe as the exception here to judge how Liko will be handled. I am looking at how female characters have been handled since BW, which makes me skeptical at how well Liko will be handled.

To demonstrate this, if we say Misty, May, Dawn and Iris were all battlers, we'd assume Serena would be to, if we're going by the pattern. Yet, she, Lillie, Lana, Mallow and Chloe weren't heavy battlers. The pattern's been broken. So should we assume Liko would follow in their footsteps? Well, no, because history suggests there're no set rules they have to follow. Like how SM threw out the journey concept. Or how Journeys threw out the singular region concept. Or how Ash went from losing his major battles to winning them. Or how they decided Ash and Team Rocket are no longer going to be part of the show. We can't use the show's history and track record as a predictive tool. The only thing we can use is the information immediately available to us, and that information is Liko is involved in at least two battles in the first episode and possesses an object a seemingly antagonistic group is after, which might lead to future battles. There's nothing there that should cause us to doubt Liko will be involved in battles throughout this series.

I'm not saying that they won't break this pattern with Liko. I'm saying that I'm skeptical about how they'll handle her because of female characters through various different series. I don't think ignoring the show's track record makes sense here. If they haven't been interested in having more battle active female leads in a long time, that doesn't give me a lot of confidence that they'll suddenly change their minds with Liko. Being involved in two battles early on doesn't necessarily mean she'll have a battle active goal.

 

[Broseph08]

I don't think you can compare Liko to any of the female companions. She's not the new Misty/May/Dawn/Serena, she's the new Ash. There's never been a female protagonist in the Pokemon anime so far, just deuteragonists at most. I've always been sure she'd be a battler since reveal and this trailer made me even more confident about that

 

[Snoozer41]

Again, I don't know if I'm being clear. I am not basing this just on one series or on one female character. This is based on how multiple female caracters have handled through multiple series. I'm not just focused on Chloe as the exception here to judge how Liko will be handled. I am looking at how female characters have been handled since BW, which makes me skeptical at how well Liko will be handled.


I'm not saying that they won't break this pattern with Liko. I'm saying that I'm skeptical about how they'll handle her because of female characters through various different series. I don't think ignoring the show's track record makes sense here. If they haven't been interested in having more battle active female leads in a long time, that doesn't give me a lot of confidence that they'll suddenly change their minds with Liko. Being involved in two battles early on doesn't necessarily mean she'll have a battle active goal.

A few points.

-People don't always stick to their old habits and can change their approach over time, including writers. Some of the staff may have felt a female traveling companion with a battle active goal wasn't necessary after DP. But with the lead character now being female they might deem it necessary to go back to writing like they did for May and Dawn.

-The new/promoted staff members, especially the female director might have pushed for Liko to have a battle active goal. With this being a new series they may have been granted more freedom than previous years and are now able to write female leads differently.

-It's possible for Liko not to have a battle active goal but still battle in nearly every episode. She might be portrayed as the type of character who doesn't like initiating battle but is willing to fight if it means protecting others or if some obstacle is in the way of her main goal. For example, she might need to acquire a rare item but the only way to do so is enter a competition. Not wanting to become a powerful trainer, capturing legendaries or whatever else doesn't prevent her from battling the antagonists, the wild Pokemon of the week, or helping her Pokemon evolve or learn new moves.

-This is still being promoted as an action adventure series and I don't see why they would choose Liko as the main lead if she isn't involved in most of the conflicts. It would make more sense to promote Roy and Friede more heavily if Liko is going to be on the sidelines cheering them on during the majority of the action scenes. I don't doubt they will probably be portrayed as more experienced and or battle obsessed than her but that doesn't mean she won't be involved in 50% or more of the series battles.