I really appreciate...

[Water Pokémon Master]

...you guys constantly using my information and never providing one bit of credit.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Intense_Fight_in_the_Destroyed_Sky_(TCG)

That's a prime example. Check my latest news story and then check that page. Check the history for even more proof.

This is a disturbing trend I have seen with many of the TCG pages on Bulbapedia since Bulbapedia first started covering the TCG, and I truly do not appreciate it. Using information is fine when you provide a source and credit it properly with a link. Taking it as if you talked to your own sources in Japan and were sent the information, then pretending it is yours by not providing where the info came from is flat out wrong and misleading.

I also love how you guys will credit every other site for every little thing, but when it comes to mine, you act like its forbidden. Even with my Mr. Hidaka interviews, I had to point out that on the GS Ball page, I was not even mentioned. Many of the TCG pages are verbatim of my own news stories. In fact, if my site did not exist, I would say that you would be missing many of your TCG pages all together.

I shouldn't have to be calling you guys out on things like this - you should know better. I haven't said much about it until today, but I have in the past, and no one has done anything. I feel embarrassed for having to be the "mean guy" and coming in here to attract negative attention to myself, but really. It's not that hard to provide credit when it is blatantly obvious to people "in the know" where you get most of your TCG info from.

 

[Archaic]

Considering that the vast majority of our staff avoid your site like the plague, it's really not obvious at all to any of us that there's been any copying of information by a regular user, until someone actively brings it to our attention. We're not omnipresent, as much as it may seem so sometimes. If and when a copyright violation is brought to the attention of our editors, we will check it and make a ruling.

I have to admit though, just looking at the information on the linked page, it's all very basic. Certainly, you don't own the information, and except for them using similar wording to you (which I honestly haven't bothered to check, but I'll take your word for it for now), I don't see any other reason for which you should be credited for that. We've had this discussion before with starter desk lists WPM. You do not own every piece of TCG info to have ever graced your site. Hell, none of us own any of this Pokémon info really, since we're not the originators or creators of that information (a translation doesn't make you an originator/creator, though an exclusive interview would be). What copyright protects is not the information itself, but the presentation and wording of it.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Avoid it like the plague? You know that's not true. The writers of many of your TCG pages sure don't seem to be, and I'd be embarrassed if the people supervising them didn't know where all the info was coming from.

And I'm not talking about copyright. If that were the case, no site would have any claim over other site's information, and I wouldn't be here.

What I am talking about is common courtesy. Like I said, I haven't really cared in the past. You guys went around crediting Serebii for releasing English named when D/P came out, yet when your whole page is a blatant ripoff of all of the people's on my site's hard work, it's okay not to credit us? All of the evidence on that page shows you got all the info from our news posts. And you think it's okay to just take that information without giving a single reference? I don't think so. And I don't know any webmaster who would let someone else get away with that. Did you guys work to put that info together? Did you scour the internet and locate people across the world to get it? No. One person took the information of many and put it on a page (among others). You simply took it from another site (even an accidental error that's on our page). Don't pull this "oh, if it's not your copyrighted info, anyone can take it." That's not how the internet and websites operate, and you know it. That won't fly with most people.

If you are not going to provide credit when it is insanely obvious where the info originated from, and that the info only is found only there (which it is), then don't take the info. It's as simple as that. I really can't believe I have to explain things like this to someone who knows better.

 

[Archaic]

Who says that the writers of our TCG pages are actually site staff? More likely than not, they're regular Bulbapedia members, not staff. As for what I said...it's not an insult. We *do* avoid your site, for our own personal reasons. Hell, I think there's only 2 or 3 staff members now, if that, who even play the TCG (myself no longer among them). And they simply prefer the 'gym for our TCG info.

As far as common courtesy goes, apparently you didn't get the message. We didn't put that info up there. We will investigate claims like the one you've made if and when they come to light, but we can't possibly check every page every single day for changes that may have been made in error by regular users who are not actually part of the staff of the site.

And as for Bulbapedia's info being taken....perhaps you haven't got the message about it being a wiki? Read the usage license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5/). Long story short....yes, most of Bulbapedia's info can be taken (some conditions and exclusions may apply, again, read the license).

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

lol.

Alright then. Fair enough. You're checking into it.

I'm glad this doesn't have to be some stupid drawn out thing.

 

[Transfinite]

Ah, brings me back to the days of Serebii devotees accusing PokespecialTK of stealing Coronis' story summaries, even though none of us had actually read those summaries before we wrote our own... Of course they were similar, they were based off the same goddamn manga.

WPM, what do you expect Bulbapedia to have on its TCG pages besides accurate and up-to-date info on what each set consists of? If it's the same as what's on your website, then congrats, your information is accurate too. Should the card listing on Bulbapedia be different from the one on your site? Should the 'pedia page not mention the introduction of the "Lost Zone" or the first card to have a retreat cost of five? Or should it make up completely random information so as to distinguish itself from your page?

When two websites report nothing but the facts, there's likely to be some similarities.

Archaic, is it okay if I call him an idiot?

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Of course the info will be similar. It's where you GOT it from that's what at issue. You didn't collect the info, and you don't have access to where it came from. Just like you credited Serebii and other sites for little things they exclusively revealed, you should do the same for other sites too.

 

[Sunain]

Archaic, is it okay if I call him an idiot?

Hah, you just did.

I've checked the article, and there is NOTHING from your site that hasn't already been reported here on the forums, other Pokemon news sites, or the Official Pokemon Card Game websites. As Archaic said, you do not have the exclusive rights to post information on the TCG.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Uhh sorry Sunain, but nothing on this set has been reported on BMG. Also mind pointing out where there is info on the other stuff related to the set that hasn't been revealed on the official site? Most sites who have "other" info got it from mine, and most of those sites provided credit. That's why I am making such a big deal out of this, especially when we are the only site with connections to people who get the set before it is officially released. Everyone in the TCG community knows how to provide credit for such things, but apparently, you guys do not. It's understandable since you guys don't specialize in it.

 

[Transfinite]

WPM, are you aware that we do have Japanese-speaking contributors to the Bulbapedia, as well as *gasp* people who live in Japan? Japan isn't some mythical far-off land that only you have access to.

In addition, the Bulbapedia page you linked to was created on June 21. The first mention of the expansion set I can find on your site was today, July 8.

 

[Sunain]

Both #Bulbagarden and #Pocketmonsters chatrooms discuss things that aren't posted on the websites. Pocketmonsters.net also posted information before you did about the Lost Zone (http://pocketmonsters.net/index.php?start_from=7&ucat=&archive=&subaction=&id=&) from the Pokemon Sunday episode, so smarten up and stop complaining.

In addition, the Bulbapedia page you linked to was created on June 21. The first mention of the expansion set I can find on your site was today, July 8.

http://imageboard.pocketmonsters.net/Sunday/res/75.html <-- June 7th.

HEY WAIT, YOU STOLE THE LOST ZONE CONFIRMATION INFORMATION FROM US THEN DIDN'T YOU?! </sarcasm>

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

@ Ketsuban: My archives aren't up yet. Only the current month is. And yes, I know you have people who speak Japanese, but they aren't product distributors or people who work at such companies.

@ Sunain: When you posted that story it was laughable. We already knew about the Lost Zone months and months ago, right after the previous set was released. So you smarten up. You're not a TCG site. Anything that derives from "official" sources is usually already long known.

And yes, I am making an idiot of myself by showing off and continuing to post (though I wasn't showing off first - I'm setting the record straight), so let's all just stop for now.

 

[Sunain]

@ Sunain: When you posted that story it was laughable. We already knew about the Lost Zone months and months ago, right after the previous set was released. So you smarten up. You're not a TCG site. Anything that derives from "official" sources is usually already long known.

Most reputable Pokemon news sites don't report on rumours. As soon as the information was confirmed which it was on Pokemon Sunday, it was promptly posted.

As for TCG site, Bulbapedia is challenging your current monopoly in the TCG information area and that is what is pissing you off. Now that you have competition, all you can do is bitch and complain that they are 'stealing' your information, which isn't the case.

Hey, did you guys here, a new TCG expansion is going to be announced in Japan soon! Better put a copyright on any information now before its too late!

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Well sure, it is about competition. I'll admit that. But it's not exactly competition when you are essentially stealing from one to make the other better. Right? It's unfair. Sorry, but many people have even come to me to tell me how you guys have my info. This isn't just something stupid and little that I am bringing up. It's been going on. This was the tip of the ice today.

EDIT: And again, we had "official" confirmation from people who work at the companies about the Lost Zone. So, it was official, but unofficial, but still official, so we posted it as confirmed.

EDIT #2: You are still missing the point, Sunain. Or do you just not want to acknowledge it? It's not about the information, it's about where it comes from. If Serebii has a "secret source" that provides him with info and you take it, God strike you down! So why am I treated differently for TCG content? All I want is some credit. I'm not asking you to take it down. I'm asking you to do the PROPER thing. You not doing it seems to be telling me that you don't even want people to know about the site and where you get your info from. Yet you'll still take from it, eh?

 

[Sketch]

The whole owning thing makes me laugh. Since you like slap watermarks on things all the time, WPM.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Well yeah, you spend hours finding cards, buying cards, organizing them, scanning them, editing them, and adding them to the site! And then someone is going to steal them? Maybe I'm just greedy (I probably am), but I don't like my work being taken by others when I have spent forever getting everything together.

The difference with your wiki is that it is a lot of people's work. With my site, it's mainly 2-3 people. So, we have to work harder, and we don't appreciate our info being "assimilated" by another site that feels it has the right to take the work of others without giving credit for their time and effort.

 

[Transfinite]

Basically what this boils down to is WPM thinks he has a monopoly on this information, so if another site winds up putting the same stuff up, obviously we stole it from him. LOGIC GUYS. LOGIC.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

This is what it boils down to.

It boils down to that we have sources who we have close relationships to who send us information. It is what makes our site unique. You, being a more general site, have taken what makes our site unique UNFAIRLY. It wouldn't be such a big deal if you got the info yourselves and had your own sources (well actually, in that case it would probably turn into pointless fights like Serebii has with sites who have their own sources).

And I don't know why it's even debatable about if you guys took the info. Check the time stamps of the page and the time stamps on my front page. It's pretty obvious. It's even organized in the same way. We were missing Machamp's scan and you have missing information only for Machamp. Use your head - it is LOGIC.

So, get your own sources. Don't "steal" from someone else to add to your "perfection." Bulbapedia is like the Borg - assimilate everyone and everything. Unfairly and immorally, too.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Who's this "you" you keep refering to? Given that it's a wiki, we can't control every last thing people put up, nor can we verify sources on every last tidbit.

And we're hardly a collective or hive mind. If we were, we wouldn't have had to disable certain functions or even have mods on it at all.

 

[Sketch]

I was referring to your non-card information. Like how you slapped your watermark on the fake Sky Forme image.

Your site is a source of information...and a source is a source...