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I think Game Freak is trying to win back the Gen 1-3 crowd?

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I am an original player of this thing called pokemon. I for 1 am very excited for Kalos. As a gen 1 starter I think the mega evo's are a great idea. The old pokemon needed some new life breathed into them. (Not to take away from them as I adore the original 151, just opinion) I also like the dif. mega evo's for x and y. (I for 1 think Mew2 x looks bad ass. Imagine raw physical psychic moves, and I love how his body ripples with power.)
 
XY
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XY is OBVIOUSLY trying to appeal to genwunners, I can't believe anyone is even doubting that...
We know pretty much everything about the game by now and we can clearly see XY had 2 goals:
1) appeal to genwunners and bring back some of the people who abandoned Pokémon
2) focus on the "cosmetic" side of things, like improved graphics / updated cries / character customization and so on... which is laying the basics for future gens
The actual new gen suffered from this, having so few actual new Pokémon... at first I was a bit mad over this, but I guess it's all for the better due to all the improved features and new ideas which future gens will benefit from
 
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People who have abandoned pokemon completely are very unlikely to return no matter what GF do. What having all the gen 1 pokes will do is make those who have stuck with the series feel comfortable, rewarded & happier with the new games. I am a genwunner but have played & enjoyed all the games, I loved gen 5 but all those new pokemon without the old was a bit overwhelming at times. I can recite types for most of the 600+ pokemon but trying to learn 156 in one go was a hell of a lot.

The amount introduced in gen 6 is low but manageable when combined with all the new features, as they are for the most part great pokemon; new unexplored type combos & some great designs.

Don't forget us genwunners have given game freak an awful lot of money over the years.
 
Lovely
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XY is OBVIOUSLY trying to appeal to genwunners, I can't believe anyone is even doubting that...
We know pretty much everything about the game by now and we can clearly see XY had 2 goals:
1) appeal to genwunners and bring back some of the people who abandoned Pokémon
2) focus on the "cosmetic" side of things, like improved graphics / updated cries / character customization and so on... which is laying the basics for future gens
The actual new gen suffered from this, having so few actual new Pokémon... at first I was a bit mad over this, but I guess it's all for the better due to all the improved features and new ideas which future gens will benefit from
The 'appealing to old fans' is only a secondary effect. GameFreak's number one priority is not to 'spread nostalgia' - it's to gain profit by selling their games. Who is likely to buy their games? The adults who left pokemon? The adults who aren't even interested in gaming anymore? The advertisements of Pokemon - even the awesome Mega-Charizard - has no effect on people who left pokemon long ago. In fact, it's likely to 'disturb' their nostalgia. Why do you think there's the famous "My childhood is ruined" every time a modified version of the old pokemon appears?

Always remember that their primary target audience are CHILDREN. They have no intention on trying to win back the old people who don't even care about their games anymore.
 
XY
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XY is OBVIOUSLY trying to appeal to genwunners, I can't believe anyone is even doubting that...
We know pretty much everything about the game by now and we can clearly see XY had 2 goals:
1) appeal to genwunners and bring back some of the people who abandoned Pokémon
2) focus on the "cosmetic" side of things, like improved graphics / updated cries / character customization and so on... which is laying the basics for future gens
The actual new gen suffered from this, having so few actual new Pokémon... at first I was a bit mad over this, but I guess it's all for the better due to all the improved features and new ideas which future gens will benefit from
The 'appealing to old fans' is only a secondary effect. GameFreak's number one priority is not to 'spread nostalgia' - it's to gain profit by selling their games. Who is likely to buy their games? The adults who left pokemon? The adults who aren't even interested in gaming anymore? The advertisements of Pokemon - even the awesome Mega-Charizard - has no effect on people who left pokemon long ago. In fact, it's likely to 'disturb' their nostalgia. Why do you think there's the famous "My childhood is ruined" every time a modified version of the old pokemon appears?

Always remember that their primary target audience are CHILDREN. They have no intention on trying to win back the old people who don't even care about their games anymore.
Of course the target audience is and always will be kids and new fans, but still... can't deny they're trying to appeal to these who played the gen 1 games, wether they sticked to Pokémon or left it... for new fans it's all new anyway since they're not familiar with the past games, they'd get it anyway, it's not like appealing to the gen 1 fans is at the cost of appealing to new fans...
Also, while some might react as you said, some ARE actually getting interested... so maybe they succeeded in winning back at least a few certain people
 
Lovely
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XY is OBVIOUSLY trying to appeal to genwunners, I can't believe anyone is even doubting that...
We know pretty much everything about the game by now and we can clearly see XY had 2 goals:
1) appeal to genwunners and bring back some of the people who abandoned Pokémon
2) focus on the "cosmetic" side of things, like improved graphics / updated cries / character customization and so on... which is laying the basics for future gens
The actual new gen suffered from this, having so few actual new Pokémon... at first I was a bit mad over this, but I guess it's all for the better due to all the improved features and new ideas which future gens will benefit from
The 'appealing to old fans' is only a secondary effect. GameFreak's number one priority is not to 'spread nostalgia' - it's to gain profit by selling their games. Who is likely to buy their games? The adults who left pokemon? The adults who aren't even interested in gaming anymore? The advertisements of Pokemon - even the awesome Mega-Charizard - has no effect on people who left pokemon long ago. In fact, it's likely to 'disturb' their nostalgia. Why do you think there's the famous "My childhood is ruined" every time a modified version of the old pokemon appears?

Always remember that their primary target audience are CHILDREN. They have no intention on trying to win back the old people who don't even care about their games anymore.
Of course the target audience is and always will be kids and new fans, but still... can't deny they're trying to appeal to these who played the gen 1 games, wether they sticked to Pokémon or left it... for new fans it's all new anyway since they're not familiar with the past games, they'd get it anyway, it's not like appealing to the gen 1 fans is at the cost of appealing to new fans...
Also, while some might react as you said, some ARE actually getting interested... so maybe they succeeded in winning back at least a few certain people
Agreed with the bold. It MAY work somewhat, but its the minority that MIGHT return. If they do, GameFreak earns extra money. Even if they don't, it wasn't GameFreak's main priority so nothing lost.
 

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People quit Pokemon for such dumb reasons, that I don't think they could be won back. They have plenty of fans and don't need to satisfy the ones who've quit.
First of all, i don't think that the people in charge of such a company; in charge of the so well rememberd "pokemon" would rely on coincidences. Also, i would like to point out that the main reason why they started to "change" things around in pokemon (replacing characters; adding other forms of battleing like contests, etc) was because they were getting less and less rating. The thing is, that all of these things didn't get as much rating back as they hoped for, so they kept on going and going with the renewals; carelessly leaving behind good storylines that in my opinion, just as most starting-animes, needed some time to become "famous", but weren't obsolet at all. So what happened after that? As many great tv productions, they went for the most "easy" way to please a different audience, one centered on children (or so is thought, since is a common belief that all that's needed to please them is humour, many colours and some funny scenes), an audience that lasts 4 years (from 6 to 10, Im not saying that teens don't watch it, but they are not the main audience and compared to children they are minority) because for some reason, they just quit watching it (so what do they do? they re-invent the show, starting with new characters, even making the lead characters learn all, or at least some of the things they had alredy learnt in previous seasons so that the new kids don't get lost, and from there on...)
The reason why some of us quitted pokemon was because of those "changes", so greatly welcomed by the ones who feel satisfied by reppetitive plots and bright colours (don't get me wrong, is not something bad at all) However, since pokemon first became attractive for some of the things that were abruptly removed from the anime show, people started to leave it behind. I don't think that that is a dumb reason, personally. After all, i (as probably many other) am an integrant of an audience that despite everything, still is deeply attatched to a show she used to watch since her childhood, that sadly isn't what it used to be. So, if trying to get such an impact on the audience back is a mistake, then, i'd be shocked. I think they must have thought of awaking the ol-passion in some ol-viewers, but haven't put much thought into it (or just, doing it wrongly), specially as long as the ratings hang in there


Who is likely to buy their games? The adults who left pokemon? The adults who aren't even interested in gaming anymore? The advertisements of Pokemon -
Also, just a curious fact, in Japan anime and videogames is so welcomed by children just as by adults. Anime has never been restricted to children, and the number of young adults and adults that play games keep on growing day by day (is well known that the addiction they may cause is particulary strong in Japan, devouring young men and women from the age of 8 or so- which would be when the addiction starts- to the amazing age of 46) And unlike in the USA and all the american countries, "cartoons" are not only for children.
I think is actually high time they realize that by entretainning an audicence that lasts 5 years, having to spend a lot of money into new desyngs and new scrypts to re-found pokemon season after season; they are wasting more money than they could earn. I have never in my life worked in a tv studio, i have no right to talk about their work and what implies since i don't know; nor to demand things that they might not even be able to produce (who knows? perhaps in Japan the media has a sort of deal with the tv productions so as to tell viewers around the world "Hey! guess what? Pokemon is reinventing itself and has doubled its ratings" if you don't watch it, then you are a wobbuffet!" or something. Japan earns an interesting deal of money from exporting animes and mangas folks, specially protection and name, don't get fooled. Is the most influent country that produces this worldwide-demanded product, just think of it) So then, just to sum up, slightly but surely, i think they (finally) try to get concieve a balance: not so repetitive and monotonous that after 5,6 years the audience gets fed up with it but not so complex so as to stop being directed to children
 
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I don't think they're trying to "win back" that crowd.

Now I've seen some people coming back this gen (I observed a good number of people coming back last gen too) but...to say this gen is somehow catering to a certain crowd is a bit much. The stereotypical crowd being catered to does not like change, they come back when things go back to how they prefer it to be, not when things get turned on their head and messed with.

A little aside I don't imagine this is true for most people, but I personally felt the most nalstalgic while playing white. It was just like the first time I played red back when I was 12, I didn't really know what most of the pokemon were, and there were no familiar faces to offset that and drag me back into the present. It was essentially a brand new experience but an old experience at the same time because of it. I wish more older players saw the new games like this rather than lamenting that their old favorites are eclipsed, so maybe from this perspective it could look like GF is trying to win back the older crowd by using old pokemon...but I don't really feel that is the base intent since those same people are so protective of the older designs and are probably flipping out over things like mega evos and stuff.
 
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The whole thing Pokémon's primary target is children is some idea that has really stuck on the West side of the fandom.
I think whole Game Freak has promoted several times, how they want pokémon games to appeal to as wide audience as possible. It doesn't matter to them how old the person is, they just want that everyone plays their games, newcomers, old fans, children and adults alike.

I know it's a bit of a taboo to like cute fighting monsters as adult especially in the West, but one of the main ideas behind pokémon is that it appeals to everyone, no matter what.
Way back in 2004, Junichi Masuda posted a great blog post about this idea:

"In interviews people often tell me
that Pokemon is a game for kids.

But I’m not too preoccupied with the question
if something is just for kids or not.

Hide-and-seek or jumping rope is just for kids?

I don’t think so.
Grown-ups too have a great time playing it.

But we adults know there are more complex
and fascinating games around us.

And as there is no limit in pursuing the urge to find
something more complex and exciting,
if you only care about these things
before you know it the games you create become
something that only you can play and enjoy.

Games that ordinary people enjoy
and games that are complex and fascinating
are in inverse proportion.

The same thing goes for music, doesn’t it?

If you ask what kind of music is popular to people of all ages,
the answer may be children’s songs.
I think Pokemon is like that when people call it a game for kids.

Our goal is to create children’s songs that have universal appeal
and that people all over the world can enjoy.

But it’s very difficult!
Because, as we go on making games and get used to it,
we tend to be interested in more difficult and complex games.

We ought not to forget our original intentions, indeed.

See ya."


So far they have succeeded rather well, don't you think?
 
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First of all, i don't think that the people in charge of such a company; in charge of the so well rememberd "pokemon" would rely on coincidences. Also, i would like to point out that the main reason why they started to "change" things around in pokemon (replacing characters; adding other forms of battleing like contests, etc) was because they were getting less and less rating. The thing is, that all of these things didn't get as much rating back as they hoped for, so they kept on going and going with the renewals; carelessly leaving behind good storylines that in my opinion, just as most starting-animes, needed some time to become "famous", but weren't obsolet at all. So what happened after that? As many great tv productions, they went for the most "easy" way to please a different audience, one centered on children (or so is thought, since is a common belief that all that's needed to please them is humour, many colours and some funny scenes), an audience that lasts 4 years (from 6 to 10, Im not saying that teens don't watch it, but they are not the main audience and compared to children they are minority) because for some reason, they just quit watching it (so what do they do? they re-invent the show, starting with new characters, even making the lead characters learn all, or at least some of the things they had alredy learnt in previous seasons so that the new kids don't get lost, and from there on...)
The reason why some of us quitted pokemon was because of those "changes", so greatly welcomed by the ones who feel satisfied by reppetitive plots and bright colours (don't get me wrong, is not something bad at all) However, since pokemon first became attractive for some of the things that were abruptly removed from the anime show, people started to leave it behind. I don't think that that is a dumb reason, personally. After all, i (as probably many other) am an integrant of an audience that despite everything, still is deeply attatched to a show she used to watch since her childhood, that sadly isn't what it used to be. So, if trying to get such an impact on the audience back is a mistake, then, i'd be shocked. I think they must have thought of awaking the ol-passion in some ol-viewers, but haven't put much thought into it (or just, doing it wrongly), specially as long as the ratings hang in there
Your entire post is devoted to the anime, but we're speaking about the games. So, to put it shortly: yes, stoping playing a video game because of its accompaining anime is indeed a dumb reason. I't's like quitting soccer because you don't like Captain Tsubasa.

Regarding the bolded segment: what are you talking about? Those changes were introduced because the anime is adapted from the games, and said mechanics (contests and ditching out old characters) appeared first in the games, so it was only natural to adapt those elements into the anime as well, it doesn't have anything to do with ratings. And even if you take into consideration the games as the reason they introduced those mechanics, they weren't brought in because of declining ratings, or in this case, declining sales - The elements you are referring to (contests and odifying the cast) were first introduced in Ruby/Sapphire. The games before those were Gold/Silver, which even to this day are the pinnacle of the series, both critically and sales-wise; therefore, there wasn't any need to change the formula, at least in terms of popularity.


The whole thing Pokémon's primary target is children is some idea that has really stuck on the West side of the fandom.
I think whole Game Freak has promoted several times, how they want pokémon games to appeal to as wide audience as possible. It doesn't matter to them how old the person is, they just want that everyone plays their games, newcomers, old fans, children and adults alike.

I know it's a bit of a taboo to like cute fighting monsters as adult especially in the West, but one of the main ideas behind pokémon is that it appeals to everyone, no matter what.
Way back in 2004, Junichi Masuda posted a great blog post about this idea:


Our goal is to create children’s songs that have universal appeal
How can you use that quote o prove that Pokémon games are not for children when even in that same quote he admitted that the games are indeed made with children in mind. "children's songs that have univeral appeal", which translates to "children's games that also happen to be enjoyed by adults". In the end, they make games for kids. If if is also popular among adults as a side effect, that's fine and dandy, but they are clearly targeted at kids.
 
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Lol I saw this thread title and laughed. Short of ramming a knife through my heart I'm not really sure what more they could do.
I'm seriously having doubts for the first time ever about whether to buy these games.
As a proud Genwunner I've grown used to Nintendos attacks, they want us gone, we are the guests who have outstayed our welcome, they eventually caved in and gave us the GS remakes we were demanded, but they hoped we would go away after that.

With Mega Evolution i feel they actualy pushed away Gen 1-3 fans even more away since most of the Gen 1-3 fans think GF butchered some of the pokemons of those gens by giving them mega evolutions.
This is very true. They have taken fan faves and butchered them, Mewtwo Y, Gyarados, Gengar etc.

XY is OBVIOUSLY trying to appeal to genwunners, I can't believe anyone is even doubting that...
We know pretty much everything about the game by now and we can clearly see XY had 2 goals:
1) appeal to genwunners and bring back some of the people who abandoned Pokémon
They failed. I don't know anyone who's thinking of getting back into Pokemon, I know a few thinking whether to bother anymore at all.

I don't think they're trying to "win back" that crowd.

Now I've seen some people coming back this gen (I observed a good number of people coming back last gen too) but...to say this gen is somehow catering to a certain crowd is a bit much. The stereotypical crowd being catered to does not like change, they come back when things go back to how they prefer it to be, not when things get turned on their head and messed with.
Correct, I don't like seeing the most badass character from my childhood (Mewtwo) being made to look like a girly Alien. Or having the ending of one of my favourite games (red and blue) retconned to include Mega Evos (Origins). I don't like the coolest type (Dragon) being given their ass handed to them, by FAIRIES!!! Nintendo are trying to belittle Genwunners.

If this is Nintendo trying to win me and my friends back, God knows what they'd do if they wanted me to leave, come at me with an Axe???
 
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"Butcher" is a strong word, its more of an overkill of their design. Mega Lucario and Garchomp are accurate examples with the additional spikes.
 
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I'm not sure how a 'genwunner' mentions the Gold and Silver remakes, but misses the Green and Red remakes.
 
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I'm not sure how a 'genwunner' mentions the Gold and Silver remakes, but misses the Green and Red remakes.
FRLG were completely different. They were unexpected, there was no massive push to get Nintendo to make them. Are we glad we got them? hell yeah. But you can't compare it with the almost campaign style reverence for the GS remakes. The term Genwunner is a little misleading most love both Gen 1 and Gen 2, but Genwunnerandtooer doesn't really have the same ring to it. Basically Gen 3 is when the rot set in. Gen 4 they still pandered to us a bit but we had to push them, Gen 5 they really wished we'd go away, now in Gen 6, they're almost outright hostile.
 
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Sigh... Yes, they totally did megaevolutions because they hate 'genwunners' and want to wreck the games for you. Sure.

I'mma just go over here now.
 
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Sigh... Yes, they totally did megaevolutions because they hate 'genwunners' and want to wreck the games for you. Sure.

I'mma just go over here now.
No they did Mega Evolutions as they've grown lazy and complacent, they wrecked the designs of favourites such as Mewtwo, to anger Genwunners.
They took the most awesome Pokemon from Gen 1 and took out its cool and made it a girly looking alien. They even made it a woman in the film, which also you know completely ignored the real Mewtwo and tried to retcon him from existence. It's about mocking us, and our memories, remember we were supposed to forget about the GS Ball and Porygon.
 
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Sigh... Yes, they totally did megaevolutions because they hate 'genwunners' and want to wreck the games for you. Sure.

I'mma just go over here now.
No they did Mega Evolutions as they've grown lazy and complacent, they wrecked the designs of favourites such as Mewtwo, to anger Genwunners.
They took the most awesome Pokemon from Gen 1 and took out its cool and made it a girly looking alien. They even made it a woman in the film, which also you know completely ignored the real Mewtwo and tried to retcon him from existence. It's about mocking us, and our memories, remember we were supposed to forget about the GS Ball and Porygon.
I can already see them at Gamefreak:
Junichi Masuda : You know what we should in Gen 6? Create Mega Evolutions to piss off Genwunners, that'll teach them.
Ken Sugimori: That's a great idea! Let's make them cry and we should feed on their tears as we destroy the designs of Gen 1 pokemons.
Everybody in the room: Muahahahahahahaha! We are evil!

Are you for real???
 
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Sigh... Yes, they totally did megaevolutions because they hate 'genwunners' and want to wreck the games for you. Sure.

I'mma just go over here now.
No they did Mega Evolutions as they've grown lazy and complacent, they wrecked the designs of favourites such as Mewtwo, to anger Genwunners.
They took the most awesome Pokemon from Gen 1 and took out its cool and made it a girly looking alien. They even made it a woman in the film, which also you know completely ignored the real Mewtwo and tried to retcon him from existence. It's about mocking us, and our memories, remember we were supposed to forget about the GS Ball and Porygon.
I can already see them at Gamefreak:
Junichi Masuda : You know what we should in Gen 6? Create Mega Evolutions to piss off Genwunners, that'll teach them.
Ken Sugimori: That's a great idea! Let's make them cry and we should feed on their tears as we destroy the designs of Gen 1 pokemons.
Everybody in the room: Muahahahahahahaha! We are evil!

Are you for real???
You ignored what I wrote. Mega Evolutions are because they got lazy and didn't want to create new Pokemon. Polish off a few beta designs add them to the game, and change the type and stats slightly, easy money.

Mega Evolutions would have happened regardless, but if they can throw a few rocks at fans who've outstayed their welcome then that's a bonus for them.
Nintendo don't care about old fans, one of them even laughed at a guy when he asked about a potential Majoras Mask remake.

Am I supposed to care?

I don't!
 
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Sigh... Yes, they totally did megaevolutions because they hate 'genwunners' and want to wreck the games for you. Sure.

I'mma just go over here now.
No they did Mega Evolutions as they've grown lazy and complacent, they wrecked the designs of favourites such as Mewtwo, to anger Genwunners.
They took the most awesome Pokemon from Gen 1 and took out its cool and made it a girly looking alien. They even made it a woman in the film, which also you know completely ignored the real Mewtwo and tried to retcon him from existence. It's about mocking us, and our memories, remember we were supposed to forget about the GS Ball and Porygon.
I can already see them at Gamefreak:
Junichi Masuda : You know what we should in Gen 6? Create Mega Evolutions to piss off Genwunners, that'll teach them.
Ken Sugimori: That's a great idea! Let's make them cry and we should feed on their tears as we destroy the designs of Gen 1 pokemons.
Everybody in the room: Muahahahahahahaha! We are evil!

Are you for real???
First of all,I find it very amusing watching you complain about all the terrible things Gamefreak is doing, and yet here you still are.

Second of all, your opinion is highly subjective. I for one find mega evolutions a great idea. It gives us yet another way of battling, and forming strategies, which is wildly appreciated by many Pokemon fans.
 
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Mewtwo in M16 is an entirely different entity to the one that appears in M1. The female voice actress was chosen to help create this difference, not the other way around. If Mewtwo is male in the M16 dub then that's a different matter altogether. That's a case of bad choice on TPCi's behalf, not the franchise in general.

Mega evolutions don't ruin anything. They are entirely optional. The original Pokemon you seem to love so much are still in the game. Just don't use their mega evolutions. It isn't hard. No-one is forcing you to use them. Want to battle competitively without using them? Then stick in tiers where mega evolutions don't present a huge issue.


Nintendo don't care about old fans, one of them even laughed at a guy when he asked about a potential Majoras Mask remake.
Oh my god. Seriously? Are you kidding me? Please tell me you're kidding. Please.
 
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