Ice needs a buff; will SwSh deliver?

[Poneto]

⚠ WARNING: this is probably very long and boring. Don't say you weren't warned lol. ⚠TLDR: Does Ice need a buff, and if so, how would YOU do it? (Or if not, y?)

I really hope Ice gets a buff next gen, it's such a neglected type. And that's a damn shame if you ask me; as a great man once said, what's cooler than bein' cool?

GF isn't averse to altering the type chart in subtle ways, often for balance reasons. Case in point: Gen V, when Steel stopped resisting Dark and Ghost; this probably happened to balance the offensive boost Steel receive with the creation of the powerful Fairy-type. However, despite this tendency for tinkering, GF has never seem to felt the need to give some buffs to Ice. In fact, they nerfed it in Gen II by taking making Fire resist Ice (previously Ice dealt neutral damage to Fire). And I find that strange because objectively Ice is the worst type.

Not sold on the negatives of Ice? Ok, sure, it's a pretty good offensive type: four other types are weak to it, one of which is the least resisted, powerful Dragon. In fact, before Fairy, Ice was the only non-Dragon counter. Ice moves also famously pairs well with several other strong move types. Electric and Ice are so popular they are often known as BoltBeam (after the common combo of Ice Beam and Thunderbolt), much loved by virtue of being the least resisted type combo going, hitting almost everything for at least neutral damage. Ice moves also goes well with the versatile Water type, which counters several of Water's counters (Dragon, Grass).

But that only makes Ice moves good ... being an Ice-type isn't so great. Consider the following:

• (Almost) No resistances: Ice is the second least resistant type. Technically Normal has less resistances (0), but Normal also has a full-on immunity to Ghost, which is a lot more useful than a resistance. This is especially true when your only resistance is to your own type, since any situation it omes into play, each Ice-type will be on a level playing field, both resisting each other, whereas, say, Grass has a clear advantage over Electric, which Grass resists one-sidedly.

• Ice's weaknesses are very strong: of particular note are: Steel (the best defensive type, and one of the handful of Fairy counters); Fire, not only a stellar attacker but also the second most resistant type after Steel (for some reason); Rock, which has many dangerous and widespread offensive moves like Stone Edge and Rock Slide; Fighting, whose members often have scary strong offensive stats too, on top of their natural type advantage over Ice mons.

• Worst "Special Ability": Many types have a special subgimmick in which they have a monopoly over a thematically appropriate mechanic of the game, and gives them a unique flavour and battle style:
  • Ghosts can always run away
  • Fire can't be burned, fire moves often inflict burn
  • Electric can't be paralysed, electric moves often inflict paralysis
  • Poison & Steel can't be poisoned, poison moves often poison
  • Dark is immune to Prankster
  • Grass is immune to spores & powders, and Grass have lots of restorative/status moves
  • Flying is immune to ground effects

What's Ice's gimmick? Freeze (FRZ). The problem? FRZ is terrible. There is no status to inflict it, you have to rely on chance. However, because Ice is best played offensively (c.f. Weavile) you don;t have the time to wait around for it to proc; you want to faint or heavily damage your foe before that, otherwise your Ice-type is toast. And even when FRZ occurs, all the opponent has to do is use a Fire move to remove it (and as mentioned above, Fire moves are very common).​

• Worst Weather: hail does 1/16th damage to non-Ice health per turn for 5-8 turns, which is only half health (over 8 turns) at best. And as aforementioned, that is much longer than you can expect a typical Ice-type to stay on the field. It also makes Blizzard 100% accurate, but that's useless to physical attackers. Some abilities activate from Hail, but there's no innate power boost Ice mons get just for being Ice in Hail, you absolutely have to be running a Hail gimmick to benefit. Meanwhile, all Water moves get 1.5x power in Rain, Fire moves get a 1.5x boost in Sun, and Rock types get a 1.5x Sp. Def boost in Sand. Just for existing.

• Fairy nerfed Ice: Don't get me wrong I love Fairy, I train fairies, it's great. But Fairy really stole Ice's niche at countering Dragon. This reduced Ice's offensive capacity somewhat, which is very problematic because that used to be the one area Ice was unchallenged in.

Taken together, this means that although Ice moves are good, Ice Pokemon are very bad, and only a handful stand out. So, what do? Tbh, I think if Ice just got some defensive buffs to its type match-ups it would be solid. The best proposal I think is just to make Ice resist the types weak to Ice. These would be Dragon, Ground, Grass and Flying. Dragon and Ground in particular would be great resistances for Ice to have for the sake of the metagame as a whole, since 1.) Ground is arguably the strongest offensive type 2.) Dragon is the least resisted type, only resisted by Steel, and even after Fairy is still very powerful due to the high base stats of its members.

Here are some more off-the-wall ideas:

• Make Fire weak to Ice: Fire needs heat as much as Ice needs to avoid it, it makes logical sense for both types to be weak to each other. It would also make sense in the meta, since, let's be honest, Fire is a bit OP; its amazing both offensively and defensively. Fire could definitely stand to take the nerf. Also, it would be the first pair of types to be weak to each other since Bug and Fighting in Gen I.

• Make Ice resist Bug: This one makes logical sense, but I could understand if it would upset Bug fans too much, since Bug is already the most resisted type (7).

• Make Ghost resist Ice: thematically, Ghost is the type most connected to Ice after Water, as cold is very symbolic of death. Giving Ghost an Ice resistance would balance Ice's new defensive power if these other ideas were used.

• Make Ice and Water resist each other: Again, makes logical sense. More importantly, however, it would be the second pair of types to resist each other (currenty the only pair is Bug and Fighting).

• Make all Ice-moves 50% more accurate in Hail: This would give Ice types a power boost in Hail equal to what other types get in favorable weather.

• Rework FRZ: Perhaps it could be a Sp. Atk version of paralysis i.e. 25% chance to not o anything per turn + 50% Sp. Atk drop. Cold does give you brainfreeze

Those are all my ideas. I sincerely hope Galar uses at least some of them, cause it's so sad seeing a type I really like get sidelined generation after generation. What do you all think? Do you have any ideas for how to buff Ice? Do you even think Ice needs a buff? I wanna hear!

 

[hanecco]

Ice definitely needs a buff, and i like all of your ideas. However, one thing I think would really help ice-types is if they were given stats which actually suit the fast/frail offensive strategy they often go for. A lot of Ice types have really high defense for some reason, which ends up useless because of what is supereffective against them (fighting), and really low speed, which doesn't help them a lot.

 

[Matleo]

still needs a buff but maybe next gen can deliver too. or a legendary?

-ice would need a protect like move that freezes oponent by contact

 

[L4PR4S]

k

 

[Zorchic]

Ice was already buffed hugely this generation, in the form of Galarian Darmanitan.

Despite Galarian Darmanitan's pure Ice typing, which is horrible defensively, it has managed to rise all the way to Ubers, the highest Smogon metagame. Galarian Darmanitan has two fantastic Abilities, Gorilla Tactics and Zen Mode, and an amazing Attack stat of 140. Gorilla Tactics acts like a Choice Band, and players have been stacking the Choice effect in competitive play by giving Galarian Darmanitan a Choice Scarf or Choice Band to hold. These factors have all contributed to Galarian Darmanitan's competitive success.

Not to mention Kyurem; all of its forms are widely-used, and it might as well be the most viable Ice-type Legendary Pokémon, if not the only one. (I can't think of any others at the moment.) In fact, Black Kyurem got buffs in Dragon Dance and Icicle Spear this gen, which helped it rise from the Smogon OU tier, the tier below Ubers, to Ubers.

To think that a pure Ice-type Pokémon with a 480 base stat total is in the same tier as some Legendary Pokémon is almost unbelievable, considering that the Ice type has four weaknesses and only one resistance. But again, Galarian Darmanitan is pretty much a glass cannon. I can't think of any relevant defensive Ice-types.

 

[Enzap]

A single powerful Pokemon doesn't equal a buff for the type on the whole. Darmanitan doesn't change the fact that it has hardly any resistances and is weak to some of the most common and powerful attacks out there. If more ice types were fast sweepers then it would be less of a problem but that seems a bit off theme since ice is not really a fast acting force of nature.