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Ice Types: The Underdogs Again?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Video Games' started by Blob, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. SinnohEevee

    SinnohEevee Well-Known Member

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    Let Ice resist Dragon.
     
  2. Matleo

    Matleo Member

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    why? ice paired with steel can resist dragon and if with fairy then its immune.

    If we make ice resist dragon or any other type it could get messy in future.
    This way we could start to think what else ice should resist or be neutral...
    fighting, psychic, ghost, water, electric ... should I count further?

    Ice would need its own Shield Trap version and many new moves and abilities combos, then it will rise.

    We still can get more ice/ghost and other good combos with good abilities and moves that will make a great change+ older pokes may get stats boost and moveset buff in future.

    Imagine a ice type pokemon with:
    Lighting Rod(imagine a new ice/flying poke),
    Flash Fire,
    Motor Drive
    Volt Absorb
    Storm Drain(ice/fire; ice/rock or ice/ground),
    Disquise,
    Aftermath,

    Levitate was used but who ice is super effective vs ground..

    In reality we do need more dual typed ice types of types that were rarely used like ice/grass(Abomasnow was slow , we would need a fast one), ice/flying, ice/psyhcic, ice/ground, ice/rock and those that were never used before.
    A few new pseudolegendary or non legendary ice/dragons?
    maybe a mega ice/dragon Lapras?
     
    #82 Matleo, Mar 25, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  3. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    But.., then you get a double weakness to fire, a double weakness to fighting. And Ice IS super effective to dragon, so it should be able to resist it. There are no ifs and buts to it.
     
  4. Nitro Indigo

    Nitro Indigo Don't you think it's kind of strange?

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    Yeah, that bothered me ever since I learned about the new type chart...
    I'd prefer a defence boost, to differentiate it from sandstorm, and because most of Ice's weaknesses are more "physical" types.

    Years ago, I saw someone suggest that Game Freak made an Ice-type version of Stealth Rock called Stealth Icicle.
     
  5. Matleo

    Matleo Member

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    maybe to make it good balanced out with psychic and dark?


    what about the typed based abilities like dark did get that it is immune to Prankster?

    Think of it if ice should get reduced damage from burn and poisoned status?
    I know there are burning ice cubes and that poisons cant get frozen or need lower temperatures...

    What about this think of Throat Chop and mix it with Drain Punch,
    lets get a "Cold Snatch" ice type move that could have 75 BP, be physical, inflicts damage, and up to 50% of the damage dealt to the target is restored to the user as HP., also prevents the target from using fire moves for two turns. (this could be good for Crabominable, Abomansow, Frosslas, Beartic and new ones or seperate it into two moves if you want, but Ice needs )
     
    #85 Matleo, Mar 26, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2017
  6. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    How will 'cold snatch' render anyone unable to use fire moves? If you 'snatch' cold from someone, and heal your HP, then technically it should make the target warmer, therefore making it able to use fire moves, and if you want to go even more realistic, then it should increase the power of fire moves for two turns, since the target will be devoid of cold, or heated.
     
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  7. FlowerMagician

    FlowerMagician Blooming...

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    If you want to prevent Fire moves, then "Cold Snatch" should become Cold Bestowal. Give rather than take.
     
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  8. Matleo

    Matleo Member

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    wanted to call it "Heat Snatch", but Cold was more a alussion to the type and "snatch" itself.

    Or steal the heat and let the target Cold, unable to use fire type moves, the name of the move itself maybe a problem, but I see this would really need to be done as a attack.
     
  9. Harmful Heron

    Harmful Heron Crimson Fighter

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    Just make a bunch of fast ones. That's what ice needs more than anything.
     
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  10. G-Panthera

    G-Panthera King of Planet Panthera

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    The Ice Type should have a good buff. For me, that would be the following:

    Resistances: Ground, Water, Dragon, Grass
    Super Effectiveness: Water is added to the mix, giving it the coveted five-types coverage aside Ground, Grass, Flying and Dragon.

    Status Effects:
    Frostbite - Effects akin to Poison, as someone else mentioned this. I like it.
    Freeze Effect - increase probability from 10% to 30%

    Buff Effects: Hail - 50% Increased Def and S-Def. Lowers accuracy of other type moves, such as Grass, Water, etc.

    Status Move Effects:
    If any new Ice-type moves were to be made, we need moves akin to Quiver Dance, Dragon Dance, etc. Make something up in that field.

    Last but not least:
    Arctic Zone (Field Move): Increases Speed stat of all Ice type Pokémon by 50%
     
    TechSkylander1518 likes this.
  11. Morningstar

    Morningstar Memeber

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    I am of the opinion thatGF is unlikely to change type-charts without adding a new one, so I think that is out unless Fairy or another type proves to be too strong like Dragon and Psychic were.

    Regardless I can see a few other ways (I think I made or participated in similar topics before)

    • Buffing Hail: Given i also lurked the Stars thread, I am aware that using the "they haven't done it before" precedent alone is preposterous, but considering that they went out of their way to include terrains that boost different types than the weathers, I'm still ruling an Ice Terrain out as unlikely. However there is nothing preventing GF from Buffing Hail (and Sandstorm) to be simialr in scope. All that's needed is the 50% boost to Ice-type attacks.
    • More exclusive Moves: Ice is one of a few types that seem to be based on RPG elements. Along with Fire, Thunder and arguably Grass. Such types have a 90 BP attack with 100 accuracy, a 120 BP attack with lower accuracy and some distinctions, a 90 BP Physical attack, a status ailment, and a common theme for Pokemon designs (The Birds for starters, and to a lesser extent the Beasts and OG Eeveelutions). The problem is that Fire and Electric types often have stronger moves or moves that are better that are limited to their type. While Ice Beam, Blizzard and their counterparts often have wide distribution. Aurora Veil and Freeze Dry are steps in the right direction, but they might need mroe to count.
      • Note, the aforementioned "archetypes" for moves are not limited to those 3. 90 BP Special moves are common among most types and Focus Blast and Hurricane also exist.
      • Ona side note: A counterpart for Freeze Dry is also possible, but for Fire-types instead of Water-types. The idea being that Fire is another move for offensive pokemon and because Dry ice or a sufficiently cold environment can put out fire or make it harder to thrive.
    • Focus: Ice-types tend to be on the defensive side. Which is a problem because of its type interactions (and that the Pokemon type chart is not arbitrary, there is a logic and a reason for most type interaction.) As well as problems with redundancy (Steel is better as a defensive type due to having more resistances). With that said, i have two ways to refocus that.
      • Keep the focus on defense, but instead of just slapping high defense on everything, try to focus more on regenerative properties. Ice by its very nature can heal wounds when cold and moisture is present, so abilities that can capitalize on that like a Hail-specific Rain Dish or a move that can absorb the damage instead (with the same caveat inherent to Protect) would go a long way in helping them be a unique type of tank rather than just Steel but worse.
      • Focus more on attack, instead of defense: As they say, the best defense if a good offense. Ice's niche if often used against Dragon and Ground-types, but the pokemon themselves often lack the offensive power to utilize them fully. The exceptions such as Weavile are popular because they can. If they were to become the rule, not the exception than ice-types might be seen ina different light, instead of a bad defensive type, they could become glass cannons.
    • In the unlikely event of a new type (and with it a change to the type chart): I'd say that Ice should resist the new type (if its logical to do so), as well as Ground, Flying and maybe Dragon. Even if their focus was shifted to glass cannons, they still would have to switch in to these pokemon to be effective, Water benefits from its resistances as well as the aforementioned restorative properties caused by Rain-dependent abilities and Water Veil (Something Grass also gets, but well).
     
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  12. Nitro Indigo

    Nitro Indigo Don't you think it's kind of strange?

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    Ice Body...
     
  13. Morningstar

    Morningstar Memeber

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    Oh. My point of its potential as a type that tanks by HP recovery still stands. Actually, now that I think about it, another ability could be useful to that end. Water Absorb (Only Ice-type that so far as Lapras).
     
  14. Joshawott

    Joshawott The Possibly Fake

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    I've seen Ninetales get a lot of competitive play this VGC season, but even then, everyone acknowledges how frail it is. The problem, is that with few exceptions (Alolan Ninetales, Weavile), GameFreak keeps on designing Ice-types to be slow and bulky, when it's probably the worst defensive typing. Then, when they finally do make faster offensive Ice-types, they're paired with secondary typing that doubles an existing weakness (Alolan Ninetales - Steel, Weavile - Fighting).

    We have had decent type-pairings surface, but on unfortunately mediocre Pokémon. Mamoswine's Ice/Ground typing is workable but that 80 base speed is not, whereas Froslass has the speed but is let down by mediocre Sp.Atk (and is outclassed by Gengar in the Ghost category anyway).
     
  15. Matleo

    Matleo Member

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    - a ice type version of First Impression (Winter Rush)
    - a ice type that can use Powder
    - a ice freezing contact ability (freeze status needs to change and react to more types, abilities(fur coat, thick fat))
    - a ice draining move
    - a ice type with Disquise ability
    - ice type ball or blast move (to match with the ability Bulletproof)
    - ice type pokemon with Bullet Proof, Heatproof and other interesting abilities
    - ice type move that power doubles when oponent is frozen

    better movesets with Torment and other moves that could help ice types deal better with their weaknesses.

    -new ice/dark defensive, sp.defense and hp oriented
    -new ice dragon
    -new ice/ghost
    -new ice psychic with oposite stats to Jynx
    -fire/ice ; new ice/electric; ice/poison, ice/bug, new fast ice/steel
     
    #95 Matleo, Apr 14, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2017
  16. Nitro Indigo

    Nitro Indigo Don't you think it's kind of strange?

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    *Disguise is Mimikyu's gimmick.
    Frost Rotom...
     
  17. Random_Pyro

    Random_Pyro Hypnopony!

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    Erm no, grass does not need yet another type that resists it. It's already resisted by 7 other types and weak to 5.
     
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  18. Matleo

    Matleo Member

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    Levitate was Gengars gimmick long time, some abilities should be used a little more , then we could get more pokemon. Especially with diffrent typing.

    hello?
    a new one with other stats, ability and moveset?
     
  19. Harmful Heron

    Harmful Heron Crimson Fighter

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    I'm in favor of ice resisting fairy. A nerf to fairy is a buff to ice since fairy cut into ice's dragon slaying trade. So that's a win win for ice. I feel like ice resisting electric would be a good idea. 1) it makes sense ice is a bad conductor 2) While electric doesn't need a nerf electric wouldn't be that hurt by it.
     
  20. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    Levitate isn't gengar's gimmick. It can be used any time, and many Pokemon have levitate.w