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Ice Types: The Underdogs Again?

Discussion in 'Pokémon Video Games' started by Blob, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. Matleo

    Matleo Active Member

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    In gen I it was. Then other pokes got it too.

    If they reallly want a new start , then gen 2 should introduce back some older elements like other evolutions method.
    We did get a ice stone with alolan ninetales.
     
  2. Nitro Indigo

    Nitro Indigo Don't you think it's kind of strange?

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    Abilities didn't exist until Gen 3...
     
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  3. Matleo

    Matleo Active Member

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    my bad, yes but in gen III not many did have them, later on more could get the same and Disquise is not Wonder Guard. I think more pokes especially future ice, grass, ground types would deserve it.
     
  4. Nitro Indigo

    Nitro Indigo Don't you think it's kind of strange?

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    17 Pokémon had it in Gen 3.
     
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  5. BigBadButterfree

    BigBadButterfree the Destroyer

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    Even Weezing had it in gen 3, another gen 1 poison-type Pokémon.

    I think the problem with disguise is that it's an ability made specifically for one Pokémon. Mimikyu was made with that idea in mind. If they wanted to give disguise to another Pokémon, they would have to base that Pokémon specifically around having a disguise. Sure, it could go to an ice type. But that's not gonna help ice types as a whole.

    Also, off topic but I have to ask, is there some reason you always spell disguise as "desquise?" I just see it a lot and have to know the reasoning lol.
     
  6. Morningstar

    Morningstar Memeber

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    On the other hand, the are abilities where the only difference is the name. Such as Huge Power and Pure Power, or Cloud Nine and Air Lock, or Wmp out and Emergency Exit. It's possible that GF could make an ability that functionally the same as Disguise, but with a new name.
     
  7. BigBadButterfree

    BigBadButterfree the Destroyer

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    Hm, I actually hadn't considered that. That's a very valid point. I still stand by what I said though, one ice type with an ability like that is just... one decent ice type. To improve ice as a type, we don't need new Pokémon that are good. Something needs to change with the type itself. Like resistances or special effects or something.
     
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  8. PartTimePokemonMaster

    PartTimePokemonMaster Part Time Pokémon Master

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    I'd hate to sound like a broken record but I have a few suggestions:
    1. create more offensively oriented ice types, because these slow tanks don't mesh well with such a fragile type
    2. create more (unique) dual types to make up for the weaknesses like another electric/ghost or adding poison/fire + ice types (and bug/normal + ice for the lols)
    3. give the ice type a quiver dance/dragon dance move that boosts speed and an offensive stat
    4. create more ice types with defensive abilities like levitate/water absorb and filter, or create more ice types with offensive abilities like technician/huge power/etc.
    5. Lastly, give ice-types a wider move pools, and preferably weaker forms of Ice Burn and Freeze Shock
    I think it is highly unlikely that they will rebalance the ice and that, conceptually, the type is supposed to be frail. In my opinion, the only thing they can do is create ice types that are hard to kill... I mean knock out.
     
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  9. Nitro Indigo

    Nitro Indigo Don't you think it's kind of strange?

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    What would be the best type to pair with Ice defensively?
     
  10. Morningstar

    Morningstar Memeber

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    Steel on a general note, but that would bring with it an increased weakness to two types they are already weak to (Fire and Fighting), Water neutralizes the ire weakness, but is still vulnerable to Fighting, and Psychic and Ghost would neutralize Fighting weaknesses but would still get problems with Fire, and neither would help the Steel Weakness one bit. And then there is the 4th weakness, Rock. Pairing it up with one of the types that damage ice super effectively wont work because not all types resit themselves, Fighting doesn't resit itself, and neither does Rock, and Steel would make its other type weaknesses worse as already explained.

    An Ice type would need Heatproof to free up the secondary type so that it could be able to stop more than 1 weakness. Or be part ground and a more offensive mon to be able to stop 3 of the types that deal SE damage (Rock, Fire and Steel) to it before they can attack it.
     
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  11. PartTimePokemonMaster

    PartTimePokemonMaster Part Time Pokémon Master

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    If you mean truly defensive (like the ones most likely to survive a few hits) then the "best" type combinations are ice/water ice/electric both with four 2x weaknesses and no 4x weaknesses.

    EDIT: But it also depends on how they build these 'mons. For example, a ice/fire type you trade steel & fire weaknesses for water & ground (+ a 4x rock weakness), but if you give this 'mon freeze dry/flash cannon/thunderbolt then potentially it could withstand its weaknesses.
     
  12. GhostLucario

    GhostLucario Ghost maniac

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    I've mentioned before that Ice needs to resist Water and/or be super effective against it. For the sake of gameplay balance. It may not be logical but it doesn't need to be. Water still only has two weaknesses.

    Ice should also resist ground (only grass, bug and flying resist it and its SE against 5 types!) and I don't know... flying? As long as it continues to have only a resistance to itself, it will be bad, because any sort of type combination will often result in more weaknesses (some of those being x4) than resistances since few of the weaknesses it has are neutralized by those combinations.

    They should also get a 50% Sp Def boost in Hail... Rock types got it, why not Ice?

    The other thing is that GF continues to create defensive Ice types and gives them limited options in terms of utility moves (no reliable recovery, no way to induce status, bad abilities) Aurora Veil was a step in the right direction but it's usefulness is limited to hail and only a handful of pokemon get it, etc.

    Ice is not well suited to be a defensive type for the reason stated above. Being offensive is the best bet but it needs stronger moves (physical ice type moves are a disgrace, with either low BP or low accuracy) and better abilities. How many ice types get Snow Cloak and Ice body? those abilities are bad. They need things like Heatproof, an Ice type Gale Wings (regardless of the nerf), Regenerator etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
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  13. Matleo

    Matleo Active Member

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    maybe for new pokemon or megas, not everything needs a pikachu mantle on it to use a disquise, some may look like wood or have eyes from there wings.

    Flavor text - "Once per battle, the shroud that covers the Pokémon can protect it from an attack."

    Yes the name of that ability, maybe I write sometimes to fast and that's the reason, Im not a native speaker, but I dont know if thats a good excuse. Sorry for that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  14. BigBadButterfree

    BigBadButterfree the Destroyer

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    Haha you don't have to be sorry, I was just curious, that's all.

    And yeah, I think it would be neat to see what another Pokémon with that ability would look like. Cuz they'd have to design it specifically with that in mind. Or, like @Morningstar suggested, it's possible to have a new ability that functions the same way.

    For an ice type (to keep in line with this thread), I could see something where it's covered in some kind of ice shell that takes the initial hit much like Mimikyu's disguise.
     
  15. Bob Fizzle

    Bob Fizzle OBEY THE BEARD

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    Icy Shell - protects the user from damage for one attack, then breaks. If the attack makes contact, the attacker takes damage as they would from iron barbs or rough skin.

    The ability could already work for existing ice types, such as Bergmite/Avalugg, Snorunt, or Regice, plus a few new 'Mons.
     
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  16. Matleo

    Matleo Active Member

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    I feel we may get a ice type with Dazzling and Queen Majesty but also then is need for fire type priority moves , increased and decreased priority.

    A ice type with Bulletproof (ice/steel tiger) could be good if they would add more fire type moves to that list,

    Magic bounce or a new ability of my idea: "Kings Majesty" - Royal Highness (blocks fang, bite crunch, slash, sword, blade,saber, spear, hammer,"weapon" moves, something like 35 moves) wanted a ground/fairy hog, boar with it, but a ice king ice/ground, or ice/rock based on a small mammal could work with it. Taking how many moves it would need to block.

    Could see really a new ice/flying pokemon , snow owl.
    A snow panther and snow rabbit.
    A fast ice/fighting.



    Could this ability be rebootet, re-used in same battle when the oponent or user would get switched out.
    a Ice/ghost, snowman pokemon with this could be very interesting.+ would could be Snow Shel, frozen snow is also very hard.

    It would be good to have more ice types with posibbility of moves to switch out user or oponent.