Idea!

[Missingno. Master]

OK, I assume we're all familier with the notion that COTD's Pokémon are clearly not notable enough for their own articles, unless the Pokémon in question is something of a COTD itself. Now, I have an idea that could change this somewhat. We make pages that include all COTD's Pokémon, with one page per season (one page per region would be WAAAAY too large). For instance, the first one would include from Samurai's Pinsir to Melvin's Exeggutor, and so on, and would be called "COTDs' Pokémon (Season 1)". Obviously, this would exclude the quick cameos, like the Dunsparce in Team Shocker. And there could be special pages for Gym Leaders and Frontier Brains' non- main Pokémon (I believe there was a (failed) idea a while back, which involved creating a page for Bugsy's entire team in the anime- something like that could work, and also solve the Tate&Liza, Tucker, and Luana problems, as they used two Pokémon equally), as well as any main characters' Pokémon deemed non-notable (such as James's Hoppip and Ash's Seaking), and also for rivals and minor/recurring characters (Paul's Stantler, Gary's Dodrio, Professor Oak's Dragonite, Angie's Shinx, Zoey's Finneon, Conway's Slowking, ect.)

So how does this sound? I've been toying with this idea for a while now, wondering if it would be any good, but now I'd like to know what the others thing.

 

[Memo326]

Eeh... I'm not sure it would be a good idea. I definitely think we should have info on minor individual Pokémon, but this doesn't seem a very logical way to me. I'd say we should rather put subsections on a CotD's page with the info; every CotD has his/her own page anyway.

Now that we're on the subject... Magnedeth told me to revive an old thread, but since the topic of notability has been brought up again anyway, here's a copy-paste of what I put on his notability subpage. ([bp]User talk:MAGNEDETH/Notability[/bp])

In my opinion, there are Pokémon like Little Pink, Anabel's Metagross and many others on this page - that have too little to talk about that don't deserve their own page, but still have some pertinent information that should be somewhere, such as appearances, moves, VAs, etc, since, like Politoad666 said, as an encyclopedia we do aim to be as complete as possible. And, actually, Pokémon owned by important characters automatically have some degree of notability because of the characters themselves. Someone over at the Rose (Ritchie's Taillow) talk page even mentioned how they appreciated the info. Because of this, I think we could reach a compromise or middle point between having-its-own-page and a-mere-mention-on-the-trainer's-page notability, through a table like this [[bp]User:Memo326/Sandbox#Animé Pokémon Owned[/bp]](in this case Marina being the example) that puts the info on the Pokémon on the actual trainer's page. So, what do you think?

And now that I think of it, it could even be subsections instead of a table, which might actually make it easier. So... what do you think?

 

[Missingno. Master]

Eeh... I'm not sure it would be a good idea. I definitely think we should have info on minor individual Pokémon, but this doesn't seem a very logical way to me. I'd say we should rather put subsections on a CotD's page with the info; every CotD has his/her own page anyway.

Now that we're on the subject... Magnedeth told me to revive an old thread, but since the topic of notability has been brought up again anyway, here's a copy-paste of what I put on his notability subpage. ([bp]User talk:MAGNEDETH/Notability[/bp])



And now that I think of it, it could even be subsections instead of a table, which might actually make it easier. So... what do you think?

That's actually not too bad an idea. I think I like that better, really.

 

[Memo326]

I hate how nobody seems to care... I'm just afraid that if I drastically change Marina's page without discussing first, I'm gonna get awful backslash, much less any other semi-major character's page.

Anyway, I made an example of how characters could have a subsection with their own Pokémon in [bp]Urara[/bp]'s page, as I figured she's such a minor character that nobody would care much. I picked her, as opposed to any other CotD, because I could actually take screenshots of her Pokémon.

So... should we go on with it?

 

[Missingno. Master]

I hate how nobody seems to care... I'm just afraid that if I drastically change Marina's page without discussing first, I'm gonna get awful backslash, much less any other semi-major character's page.

Anyway, I made an example of how characters could have a subsection with their own Pokémon in [bp]Urara[/bp]'s page, as I figured she's such a minor character that nobody would care much. I picked her, as opposed to any other CotD, because I could actually take screenshots of her Pokémon.

So... should we go on with it?

YES. Me like. It goooooood.

 

[Martonimos]

And now Kenji's reverted it...

 

[Jioruji Derako]

It's a pretty good idea IMO, to start listing Pokémon on the CotD articles. Just keep it in line with the previously defined style, I'd say; I would use a character like [bp]Steven Stone[/bp] as an example.

I'm not sure why KenjiGirl reverted, but I'm sure she has a reason. I can ask her to weigh in here or something, so we can get a bit of consensus before anyone does anything too big.

Geo - a.k.a. Jioruji Derako

 

[Memo326]

*sigh* Nobody seems to pay attention to the forums... Oh, well, I guess that's how it is on a wiki; I'm not really sure how well this board is for discussing things about the 'pedia, as I think most people expect discussion on a talk page or something. I'm not really sure if much Bulbapedians see this board regularly.

Anyway...

It's a pretty good idea IMO, to start listing Pokémon on the CotD articles. Just keep it in line with the previously defined style, I'd say; I would use a character like Steven Stone as an example.

What do you mean like Steven Stone? I don't see any Pokémon listing in the style I did... Meaning, in his animé (and manga) section, his Pokémon are only listed along with their sprite (the same way they are right now with all other animé characters). On the other side, the listing on his game Pokémon are in a party template, which wouldn't be suitable for animé Pokémon, since they sometimes have more than four moves, they don't have levels, and have much more to write about, which is the point of expanding the sections in the first place.

I also want to say that, though I'm starting with CotDs (as they are minor and therefore less controversial), my thoughts about the Pokémon section could expand to other animé characters (like [bp]Marina[/bp], as I've already stated), possibly solving problems of notability of certain Pokémon, which have certain relevant info but not enough for their own article. Even Ash's Pokémon could have these sections (giving a brief description paragraph and linking to the main article, of course), which would make possible to talk about, for example, Ash's Seaking or one of his rented Pokémon without it having its own article, or having a clumsy sprite table and notes at the bottom. (See [bp]Ash Ketchum#Temporary[/bp]).

A character who already has something similar to what I'm going for is the [bp]Pokémon League entrance exam instructor[/bp], though I'm not so sure the infoboxes are the way to go, since most of the info on them is unknown, and what little is known is already stated (or could be stated) on the paragraph itself. Take away the infoboxes and, well... we end up with a format similar to the one I put up at Urara's page. =D

Oh, and I've already put up a message in Kenji-girl's page, so that we can discuss it all here. =)

 

[Kenji-girl]

The reason I don't approve of it is because it's too much work and unbalanced.

We'd have to about each Pokemon that every COD has had. That means that we have to obtain pictures of them an upload them to the archives. Now that would probably equal about 1000 pictures. Also will have to go back and watch some episodes to see what a COD's Pokemon did in that episode. It's stupid to waste our time with something this useless. Also we took a long time adding party tables and making custom sprites for all these Pokemon, and now you just want to throw that all away? Just think about how complicated its going to be with trainers of multiple Pokemon like Mewtwo. Are you going to right a paragraph on every single one of them? You're going to have to, there is no picking and choosing.

I'm also not fond of this going on without me knowing. As head of the anime department, changes should go through me first instead of just going ahead with it. This is a massive change you're talking about.

Bottom line, it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is that users who are addicted to adding pictures are going to add them and then not write anything about the Pokemon. The pages are going to look bad with a ton of blank spaces in them. Sure you're thinking "Oh don't worry, I plan to write about every single one." But let me tell you. You won't commit to it and we're just going to have a shit load of uncompleted tasks.

This just seems to me a way of getting around the ban on pages of COD's Pokemon. It's not allowed because they are not notable. Though I admit some are and deserve there own pages, such as the Froslass in this weeks episode, as she was more important than the COD was. I don't call Urara's Wormadam a notable Pokemon and we don't need a bio about it after it only appeared for a few minutes. The most notable Pokemon are usually ones without trainers. How are we going to give bios on them? No trainer! Is that very fair?

However, if you do wish to just put a short summary of what the particular Pokemon did in that episode underneath the party table in a list format, then maybe that could work. I just think that this is a bad idea and it's going to lead to a ton of unfinished work.

 

[Kenji-girl]

*sigh* Nobody seems to pay attention to the forums... Oh, well, I guess that's how it is on a wiki; I'm not really sure how well this board is for discussing things about the 'pedia, as I think most people expect discussion on a talk page or something. I'm not really sure if much Bulbapedians see this board regularly.

Since when is going to the forums a requirement? I should have at least been asked on my talk page what I thought of it before you submitted it... How am I supposed to know that there was a discussion here? I'm not a forums person and I don't like coming here unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Memo326]

Since when is going to the forums a requirement? I should have at least been asked on my talk page what I thought of it before you submitted it... How am I supposed to know that there was a discussion here? I'm not a forums person and I don't like coming here unless absolutely necessary.

Sorry, I'll make sure to discuss things more often in your/the article's/someone else's talk page(s) than here, and to actually know who is in charge of what sections... =)

About CotD's Pokémon... Yeah, I suppose it would get kind of hectic, and would just end up in a huge to-do list. My original plan, as I said before, was to apply this to the semi-important or recurring characters (think Casey, Jimmy, Richie...), but when Missingno Master suggested the CotD's... I though, why not? Plus, doing it with a CotD would make a small-scale example... But, true, it would be too much unnecessary work.

However, about doing this on semi-important characters... That might work with issues of notability (like, is [bp]Little Pink[/bp] notable?) That way, semi-notable Pokémon will get some info written about them without having their own page. That, IMO, would be much more manageable (as recurring characters are much less in number then CotD's) as well as more useful. What would you think about that? (I figure I should put this on your talk page as well... =)

 

[Martonimos]

You really ought to make a habit of checking the forums more often, Kenji, or at least this section of them.

 

[Jioruji Derako]

In response to Memo, yes, perhaps Steven Stone is a bad example; that doesn't go into any detail on his Pokémon, it merely lists them. You version of Urara would be a better example.

I'm also not fond of this going on without me knowing. As head of the anime department, changes should go through me first instead of just going ahead with it. This is a massive change you're talking about.

That would be a good reason to keep an eye on the forums, nobody's hiding anything here. I was personally going to drop a note on your talk page to get you to check, but like mart mentioned, it would also be easier if you checked the forums every so often.

Anyway, I think it could be done, but Kenji-girl brings up good points; there's a good chance it'll end up with a lot of blank spaces.
However, I think with the right style layout, it could be done. We don't need a lot of detail, just stuff like when the Pokémon was seen, maybe notes about the moves it used, minor stuff that would generally be on a more notable Pokémon's page.
With the right layout, perhaps defaulting to just a picture of the Pokémon 9not neccessarily an anime screenshot, normal sprites work fine too), then it wouldn't be a big deal if a Pokémon didn't have any info listed. Make it almost like how we handle the Notes section; it's not always in the article, but when we have trivia or notes, the section gets added. I believe we could do something similar for the CotD Pokémon as well.

Geo - a.k.a. Jioruji Derako