International Politics Thread

[Big Lutz]

Five members of the terrorist organization ANTIFA have been charged with domestic terrorism after the shooting of a cop led to a raid on their “autonomous zone”

Five Antifa members are charged with domestic terrorism in Atlanta

Five members of Antifa are in custody on domestic terrorism charges after they were protesting outside of a planned police training center in a predominantly black area of Atlanta.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How these autonomous zones are not charged with sedition in a similar vane as the January 6th rioters, I have no idea.

 

[DearEagleZ]

Out of curiosity, is there anything specific you don’t like about Stein, or is it just his party?

The party in general. I believe they're no better than the Republicans.

 

[There Is No Arceus]

Five members of the terrorist organization ANTIFA have been charged with domestic terrorism after the shooting of a cop led to a raid on their “autonomous zone”

Five Antifa members are charged with domestic terrorism in Atlanta

Five members of Antifa are in custody on domestic terrorism charges after they were protesting outside of a planned police training center in a predominantly black area of Atlanta.

www.dailymail.co.uk

How these autonomous zones are not charged with sedition in a similar vane as the January 6th rioters, I have no idea.

these autonomous zones are not charged the same way because they have thus far made no attempt to overthrow a democratically elected government. I agree that the existence of these autonomous zones is not ok, but it isn't comparable to jan 6. It's terrorism, but it's not sedition.

 

[Big Lutz]

these autonomous zones are not charged the same way because they have thus far made no attempt to overthrow a democratically elected government. I agree that the existence of these autonomous zones is not ok, but it isn't comparable to jan 6. It's terrorism, but it's not sedition.

I would say insurrection is different from sedition as they are not trying to overthrow the government. Instead they are taking land and creating their own government not recognized by the United States and saying it is not governed by the laws of the United States. Ala the confederate government, I just think the crimes should be treated similarly.

 

[Volphied]

these autonomous zones are not charged the same way because they have thus far made no attempt to overthrow a democratically elected government. I agree that the existence of these autonomous zones is not ok, but it isn't comparable to jan 6. It's terrorism, but it's not sedition.

Of course it's not comparable. But you have to remember that whataboutism is a necessary part of right-wing attempts at whitewashing and minimizing the insurrection of Jan 6.

The attack on the Capitol is a terrible black stain on the Trumpist movement, which is why they're so desperate to find something comparable to it that they can pin on leftists.

Fox News and the entire rest of the conservative disinformation sphere have been working very hard the past years to shift people's attention away from the far-right coup attempt. Over-hyping some lame autonomous zones is just their latest busted trick. Grasping at straws is all they have left.

PS: The Daily Mail is a banned source on Wikipedia. To quote Wikipedia: Its use as a reference is now "generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist", and it can no longer be used as proof of notability. It can still be used in reference to an article about the Daily Mail itself. Support for the ban centred on "the Daily Mail's reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism, and flat-out fabrication".

Wikipedia's co-founder Jimmy Wales backed the community's choice, stating: "I think what [the Daily Mail has] done brilliantly in this ad funded world (is) they've mastered the art of click bait, they've mastered the art of hyped up headlines, they've also mastered the art of, I'm sad to say, of running stories that simply aren't true. And that's why Wikipedia decided not to accept them as a source anymore. It's very problematic, they get very upset when we say this, but it's just fact.

 

[Big Lutz]

Of course it's not comparable. But you have to remember that whataboutism is a necessary part of right-wing attempts at whitewashing and minimizing the insurrection of Jan 6.

Fox News and the entire rest of the conservative disinformation sphere have been working very hard the past years to shift people's attention away from the far-right coup attempt.

You don’t considered sedition and terrorism a major crime?

PS: The Daily Mail is a banned source on Wikipedia. To quote Wikipedia: Its use as a reference is now "generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist", and it can no longer be used as proof of notability. It can still be used in reference to an article about the Daily Mail itself. Support for the ban centred on "the Daily Mail's reputation for poor fact checking, sensationalism, and flat-out fabrication".

Wikipedia's co-founder Jimmy Wales backed the community's choice, stating: "I think what [the Daily Mail has] done brilliantly in this ad funded world (is) they've mastered the art of click bait, they've mastered the art of hyped up headlines, they've also mastered the art of, I'm sad to say, of running stories that simply aren't true. And that's why Wikipedia decided not to accept them as a source anymore. It's very problematic, they get very upset when we say this, but it's just fact.

Cool, is there anything in the article that is incorrect? Multiple sources have covered this, stating the shooting of an officer happened and the charges of terrorism. Otherwise all you are doing is complaining about a source with out addressing the content.

 

[Volphied]

I mean, if we really have to compare 5 arrested eco-terrorists to someone, then why not to the ongoing spate of attacks targeting power infrastructure?

Attacks on power substations are growing. Why is the electric grid so hard to protect?

Suspicious activity at power substations has been on the rise even before attacks at two North Carolina substations in December. Here's what to know.

eu.usatoday.com

Ah, the reason why we're not comparing it to these incidents is because these attacks are done by [[drum roll]]:

In February, three men who ascribed to white supremacy and Neo-Nazism pleaded guilty to federal crimes related to a scheme to attack the grid with rifles.

In a news release, Timothy Langan, assistant director of the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division, said the defendants "wanted to attack regional power substations and expected the damage would lead to economic distress and civil unrest."

Oh my, they're far-right terrorists. Fox News/Daily Mail can't use them in their daily rants about the eeeeeviiiiiil ANTIFA.

 

[Big Lutz]

I mean, if we really have to compare 5 arrested eco-terrorists to someone, then why not to the ongoing spate of attacks targeting power infrastructure?

Attacks on power substations are growing. Why is the electric grid so hard to protect?

Suspicious activity at power substations has been on the rise even before attacks at two North Carolina substations in December. Here's what to know.

eu.usatoday.com

Ah, the reason why we're not comparing it to these incidents is because these attacks are done by [[drum roll]]:

In February, three men who ascribed to white supremacy and Neo-Nazism pleaded guilty to federal crimes related to a scheme to attack the grid with rifles.

In a news release, Timothy Langan, assistant director of the FBI’s Counterterrorism Division, said the defendants "wanted to attack regional power substations and expected the damage would lead to economic distress and civil unrest."

Oh my, they're far-right terrorists. Fox News/Daily Mail can't use them in their daily rants about the eeeeeviiiiiil ANTIFA.

I think attacking the power grid is terrorism be it the neo Nazis that attacked the stations or the eco terrorists that attacked the stations ( both left and right wing groups have been accused of attacking power stations ), The difference being is neither the neo Nazis or the eco terrorists took over the power stations and declared it separated from the United States. Nor did they to my knowledge kill someone, unlike ANTIFA in this situation.

 

[Volphied]

I believe it's necessary to repeatedly point out how staggeringly crappy the Daily Mail is as a news source. Compare it to something like this:

Five Arrested for Domestic Terrorism Charges at Site of Future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center

UPDATE - 6/23/2023: The GBI is aware of DeKalb County District Attorney Sherry Boston’s decision to withdraw herself from the investigation into those who committed crimes related to the future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center. The Georgia Attorney General’s Office has been the lead...

gbi.georgia.gov

Notice any difference between this press release and the crappy Daily Mail "article"? Why yes, it was the Daily Mail that maliciously inserted all those references to ANTIFA.

Is it still surprising that Wikipedia banned people from citing the Daily Mail? (also know affectionately as the "Daily Heil" for their past cheerleading for British nazis. No really, read up on their history)

ANYWAY. I have a suggestion for this thread: Let's stop linking to crappy click-bait articles from tabloids that love to play loose with facts. This thread deserves a higher quality of journalism than this.

Another Suggestion: Let's not link to old articles from the previous year. Why is this old stuff being selectively reposted anyway? It's obviously no longer on the front page of the Daily Mail, so the only way one could have found it is from one of those crappy FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW chain emails that the disinformation sphere loves so much. Or maybe it was cross-posted from some other dubious outrage aggregator on Twitter. But hey, if Lutz doesn't mind then I can start dumping old article after old article of right-wing terrorist attacks in the US. A simple google search is all I need to create a long list.

 

[zoroarctic]

Some non-US news: New Zealand leader Jacinda Ardern announces shock resignation before upcoming election | CNN

Can’t say I blame her; if I had to deal with all the things she did, I’d probably burn out a lot faster.

The party in general. I believe they're no better than the Republicans.

What makes you think that? Not trying to interrogate you or anything, I’m genuinely curious.

 

[Big Lutz]

I believe it's necessary to repeatedly point out how staggeringly crappy the Daily Mail is as a news source. Compare it to something like this:

Five Arrested for Domestic Terrorism Charges at Site of Future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center

UPDATE - 6/23/2023: The GBI is aware of DeKalb County District Attorney Sherry Boston’s decision to withdraw herself from the investigation into those who committed crimes related to the future Atlanta Public Safety Training Center. The Georgia Attorney General’s Office has been the lead...

gbi.georgia.gov

Notice any difference between this press release and the crappy Daily Mail "article"? Why yes, it was the Daily Mail that maliciously inserted all those references to ANTIFA.

Is it still surprising that Wikipedia banned people from citing the Daily Mail? (also know affectionately as the "Daily Heil" for their past cheerleading for British nazis. No really, read up on their history)

ANYWAY. I have a suggestion for this thread: Let's stop linking to crappy click-bait articles from tabloids that love to play loose with facts. This thread deserves a higher quality of journalism than this.

Another Suggestion: Let's not link to old articles from the previous year. Why is this old stuff being selectively reposted anyway? It's obviously no longer on the front page of the Daily Mail, so the only way one could have found it is from one of those crappy FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW chain emails that the disinformation sphere loves so much. Or maybe it was cross-posted from some other dubious outrage aggregator on Twitter. But hey, if Lutz doesn't mind then I can start dumping old article after old article of right-wing terrorist attacks in the US. A simple google search is all I need to create a long list.

If you want to link to only government articles that is up to you. However I have noticed that whining about sources is usually a rabbit hole that kills any and all discussions.

So again I ask, is there anything inaccurate about the article? You say that ANTIFA is not mentioned in the government report, are you saying ANTIFA is not taking over the area?

If you want to post sources about current right wing attacks feel free to do so, we can do that. If you want to get into a pissing match of ANTIFA vs Far right Extremist attacks then why not make a thread? So we do not dirty up this one with old news.

Btw here is the current article, I apologize I got caught up with the raid a month ago with the shooting today by an ANTIFA Chud. They are planning a day of rage in the next few days. However this is all from the same ANTIFA cell.

Georgia trooper stable after being shot, protester killed near controversial 'Cop City' police facility site

A Georgia State Patrol trooper was shot and a protestor was killed during a confrontation near the site of the controversial "Cop City" Atlanta Police Department training facility on Wednesday, the Georgia Department of Public Safety confirmed.

www.fox5atlanta.com

Antifa protesters in Atlanta are calling for 'Night of Rage' against cops after fatal shooting

 

[dig]

Right guys, this is getting heated.

Cool it, or we'll close the thread for a bit.

 

[Volphied]

Right guys, this is getting heated.

Cool it, or we'll close the thread for a bit.

Can I at least post this music?

It's topical.

 

[DearEagleZ]

What makes you think that? Not trying to interrogate you or anything, I’m genuinely curious.

Mostly because both parties have presidents that commited war crimes (Bush for the RepParty and Obama and Biden for DemParty.)

 

[zoroarctic]

Mostly because both parties have presidents that commited war crimes (Bush for the RepParty and Obama and Biden for DemParty.)

I take it you watch a lot of online progressive media?

 

[Volphied]

Mostly because both parties have presidents that commited war crimes (Bush for the RepParty and Obama and Biden for DemParty.)

Don't forget Trump. The guy who pardoned war-criminals.

The War-Crimes President

When violence is directed at those Trump’s supporters hate and fear, they see such excesses not as crimes but as virtues.

www.theatlantic.com

Donald Trump is a war-crimes enthusiast.

This is not an exaggeration, a mischaracterization, or a misrepresentation. As a candidate, the president regaled his audiences with vivid tales of brutality, some apocryphal, and vowed to imitate them.

On the campaign trail, Trump frequently invoked a false story about General John Pershing crushing a Muslim insurgency in the Philippines with bullets dipped in pig’s blood, declaring, “There was no more radical Islamic terror for 35 years!” He vowed to impose torture techniques “a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding.” Trump declared that he would “take out the families” of terrorist suspects, assuring skeptics that the military would not refuse his commands, even though service members have a duty to refuse orders that are manifestly illegal. “If I say do it, they’re going to do it.”

Although Trump was talked out of authorizing torture by his advisers, the president’s ardor for violations of the laws of war has manifested itself in his decisions to intervene in war-crimes cases on behalf of the defendants. In four separate cases since the beginning of his presidency, and for the first time in the history of modern warfare, an American president has aided service members accused or convicted of war crimes, against the advice of his own military leadership.

The clearances eroded the rule of law, as well as institutional safeguards against authoritarianism and the politicization of the military. But they were also a rational extension of Trumpist nationalism, which recognizes no moral, legal, or institutional restraints on the president worth upholding, and which sees violence against outsiders as a redemptive expression of national loyalty. Even the cynical invocation of legal restraints on warfare can provide a modicum of protection for civilians, but Trump would do away with this meager safeguard in pursuit of political advantage, in part because he does not see the people whom those restraints protect as fully human to begin with. In the long run, Trump hopes to do with the U.S. military what he has done with the police and immigration enforcement: forge the institution into a partisan weapon for himself to wield against his enemies, using the promise of impunity for crimes against the weak or despised.

 

[TheCapsFan]

After further discussion, the staff has in fact decided to lock this thread for the time being while we continue to discuss the future of this thread on the forums. We will provide an update when we come to a conclusion.

 

[pokemoll]

Following discussion with the moderation team at large, we have come to the decision to close the International Politics thread until further notice; this comes following the previous closure of the American Politics thread.

Whilst it is to be expected that differences in opinion should occur in any political discussion, the heated, circular nature of the posts here has largely drowned out any attempts at civility. Politics-centric threads have a tendency to inspire (often unintentional) baiting behaviour, and this was no exception.

For the time-being, this thread will not be reopened or revived, and we will be discouraging any political discussion in Outside the Box. There are an unlimited amount of appropriate spaces to debate politics online (and off); please refrain from simply redirecting these conversations to profile posts.