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Is Pokemon losing steam?

sc190191

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In answer to the question of the thread, definitely not, they are still growing the brand and making loads of money. But I kind of commiserate with the theme of the thread.

I have felt that for a long time they have stopped producing some of the little extras they had for so long, and really only focus their efforts on anything that has the direct impact of increasing revenue. Of course, some should argue this is how any company should operate. Also you can argue that even the little extras I'm referring to created goodwill with fans (well duh) and was extra advertising, so it really wasn't any different and that now they have developed new ways to advertise while trying to connect with an ever-changing demographic.

At least from my perspective, I respected the artist in some of the older writers/designers, who went the extra mile to add little things that gave life to the games/anime/etc. Some examples of things tend to be missing now include sitting in chairs, looking in trash cans, reading posters/pictures on the wall, watching tv programs in the games, having a lot more to do in post game, etc. In the anime side, it is extra side episodes, Pikachu shorts, animated versions of other games (sometimes whole episode worth), etc. Are these things really worth that much? Not really. Did they exist just out of love? Probably not, they were part of making a game feel complete that is deemed no longer necessary, they were advertisement that they feel now isn't worth the effort, etc.

Like most, when I was younger I was more naive, I knew less about business at the time, and really felt a lot was being done for the love of the subject, when truly it had a strong advertising effect (as can obviously be seen from my passion for the subject), so the nostalgia I feel for the franchise (which is in no way limited to Gen 1-2) was developed from this and is part of why I have played every Pokemon game, watched every anime episode (even though I despise it now), etc. Point being, their branding/advertising worked then, and the way they have changed it probably works now, it just isn't as designed towards "us".

It is sometimes sad to remember that something most of us love so much only exists to make money, but it really does, and it does a damn good job of it.
 
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IncineROAR

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In terms of game quality, yeah I think the games have been losing steam.

But sales of the games were steady through Gen 6 and 7, and I see senior citizens playing Pokemon Go... so no Pokemon as a whole isn't in decline.
 

geebraprint

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Gen 4 was definitely my low point in terms of interest and being impressed with the games. The graphical jump was so little from gen 3, the sprites still didn't move, nothing in the plot seemed fresh, the designs were weak IMO, etc etc. Then they did a soft reboot in gen 5 and my interest peaked, and then the graphics and designs skyrocketed in gen 6, etc etc.

My point is, everyone will have their subjective view of where the franchise has gotten stale, and it seems for some that time is now. You all need to remind yourselves that it is just that- subjective. An opinion. I think the series is soaring right now. Tons of room for improvement, but by no means failing or stale. The preorders for SwSh show that to be the general consensus.
 

madokami3971

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First of, I'm not saying that they're running out of ideas, I'm just saying that since Gen 6, GF and The Pokemon Company have began to downgrade themselves. Everything is there, but they're starting to forget their true roots aside from Gen 1.

This is how I see the whole situation of Pokemon and the state of Game Freak at the moment...

Gen 1 - 3 (The Rise)
Gen 4 (The Peak)
Gen 5 (The High Noon)
Gen 6 - 8 (The Decline)

Perhaps it's to do with the changing times we're living in where mobiles and transactions are all the rage, at least Pokemon are trying to be generous compared with most. I don't think they'll ever be like the past 5 Gens since transitioning to 3D, in which is already proving to be more than they can chew. What people will think is a renaissance is but a bubble rising from the sinking wreck that is about to burst hard unless they turn things around.

I truly want SwSh to succeed, I am buying the games because I've longed for them, however I don't think they would make it as impressive as Gen 3, 4 or 5 were, and instead just want to be safe by making it something like Gen 7. Until they come out, I am trying to give the games some hope of improvements.
It’s not loosing steam, and if I’m being totally honest, I really do feel like Pokémon is improving as time goes on. I think Unova, Kalos, and Alola were great, Hoenn was cool, Kanto and Johto were meh, and I didn’t really like Sinnoh. And, so far, I think Galar is going to be amazing.

Moving on...really don’t understand why you think Pokémon can be compared to a ship that’s about to sink, and why you think mobile games are contributing to that.
 

SpinyShell

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really don’t understand why you think Pokémon can be compared to a ship that’s about to sink, and why you think mobile games are contributing to that.
Not OP but some people believe mobile games have led GameFreak to prioritize them over the core games—I even saw one person theorize that GF had Dexit solely to purposely sink SwSh so that more people would play the mobile games—and has caused them to oversimplify said core games.

I personally don’t think mobile games are killing Pokémon, and my only issue is that TPCi seems to prefer mobile spin-offs to console ones.
 

madokami3971

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Not OP but some people believe mobile games have led GameFreak to prioritize them over the core games—I even saw one person theorize that GF had Dexit solely to purposely sink SwSh so that more people would play the mobile games—and has caused them to oversimplify said core games.
That’s an extremely stupid theory, Jesus Christ-
 

swiftgallade46

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Mobile Pokémon games have literally nothing to do with any perceived decrease in main series game quality. If anything they improve them with added features like Go connectivity (although I personally never used that).

They are developed independently and exist to tap into an obviously booming market demand and bring in new fans who wouldn’t otherwise be exposed to the series. They supplement the games; they don’t detract from them.
 

SpinyShell

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They are developed independently
A sizable amount of people believe GameFreak makes most of the mobile games outside of GO (at least on r/pokemon), even though in reality I think they’ve only developed one themselves (I think it was either Duel or Quest). Some folks were upset with Masters because they thought GF made it and that was bad because something something Dexit, even though I think a company called DeNA is behind (most of) it.
 

Esserise

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Mobile Pokémon games have literally nothing to do with any perceived decrease in main series game quality.
I think what people usually mean there is that Game Freak's perception of how people play mobile games influences their design choices when it comes to core games, e.g. Masuda saying that the games' trending toward being easier is because it makes the games more accessible to people who are now so spoiled for options when it comes to entertainment that can easily fill up their time, because all they need is a smartphone, which wasn't really a factor back in 2004. So if you don't like the games being easier or having less single-player content in the post-game, it's easy to zero in on mobile games as being the cause to blame.
 

swiftgallade46

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I think what people usually mean there is that Game Freak's perception of how people play mobile games influences their design choices when it comes to core games, e.g. Masuda saying that the games' trending toward being easier is because it makes the games more accessible to people who are now so spoiled for options when it comes to entertainment that can easily fill up their time, because all they need is a smartphone, which wasn't really a factor back in 2004. So if you don't like the games being easier or having less single-player content in the post-game, it's easy to zero in on mobile games as being the cause to blame.
The way I’ve been reading it (based on the theory quoted above for example) is people think that TPCi/GameFreak are shifting their focus towards developing mobile games and this is causing the main titles to suffer in quality.

Developing the main games to be similar in difficulty/ease to mobile games could be negative (RIP Battle Frontier), but it could also subjectively be a good thing in a lot of ways. By all means, move away from time-consuming grinding and overcomplicated mechanics. You won’t hear complaints from me.
 

madokami3971

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Losing steam no...but I do think we are approaching a turning point, but I couldn't tell you what that turning point is.

All I can hope is that the turning point is for the better....
I....really don’t understand the turning point you’re talking about. I know you “can’t” tell us what it is, but could you at least try?
 

KrspaceT

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I....really don’t understand the turning point you’re talking about. I know you “can’t” tell us what it is, but could you at least try?
Basically the issue involves the current fan vs developer clashing that came from Dexit and everything that followed.

(BTW, here is a question I am not sure the answer for, with how many leaks have come out about Sword and Shield game stuff that is accurate, any reason we haven't gotten a leak about what the mood is at Game Freak post Dexit reveal?)
 

madokami3971

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Basically the issue involves the current fan vs developer clashing that came from Dexit and everything that followed.

(BTW, here is a question I am not sure the answer for, with how many leaks have come out about Sword and Shield game stuff that is accurate, any reason we haven't gotten a leak about what the mood is at Game Freak post Dexit reveal?)
Thanks for explaining. It’s a super small vocal minority, so I doubt anything bad will happen.

(regarding employee mood at Game Freak, I doubt they’re hit hard by Dexit or anything.)
 

swiftgallade46

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(BTW, here is a question I am not sure the answer for, with how many leaks have come out about Sword and Shield game stuff that is accurate, any reason we haven't gotten a leak about what the mood is at Game Freak post Dexit reveal?)
Probably because a) most of the leaks are fake b) the real leaks we get aren’t necessarily from people who work at GameFreak and c) they probably assume people would rather hear about game features over developer-mood
 

KrspaceT

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Probably because a) most of the leaks are fake b) the real leaks we get aren’t necessarily from people who work at GameFreak and c) they probably assume people would rather hear about game features over developer-mood
1: .....Yeah, you are aware about some of the VERY uncannily accurate stuff that has popped up, right?

2: _ no response

3: Are you kidding, if you had audio that had Masuda, say, say 'F_Ck Western Fans' and leaked it online, you would get a lot of internet attention and fame.
 

TechSkylander1518

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1: .....Yeah, you are aware about some of the VERY uncannily accurate stuff that has popped up, right?
It was all in one leak. Compare that to the dozens of fakes we've had, it's not inaccurate to say most of it's fake.
3: Are you kidding, if you had audio that had Masuda, say, say 'F_Ck Western Fans' and leaked it online, you would get a lot of internet attention and fame.
Yeah, tons of attention, and then you'd be in trouble because they would know exactly who you were because you'd be in the room recording it. (Unless you believe that somebody broke into Game Freak and planted bugs...) It'd have to be translated anyways, since Masuda doesn't speak English, and we've seen how translations can be misinterpreted.
 

swiftgallade46

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1: .....Yeah, you are aware about some of the VERY uncannily accurate stuff that has popped up, right?

2: _ no response

3: Are you kidding, if you had audio that had Masuda, say, say 'F_Ck Western Fans' and leaked it online, you would get a lot of internet attention and fame.
1) It’s...all documented in the leak repo thread. We have maybe 3 fully credible leaks and the main one seems to come from a native English speaker not a GF employee.

3) ...So then the logical conclusion one would draw is that nothing of that nature has occurred? That or anything that has happened isn’t worth leaking.
 

lapisora

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Part of it is what colours said - we've grown up and played other RPGs which outstrip Pokemon in terms of graphics, mechanics and story, but Pokemon games are not meant to be the best of the best; they're meant to be malleable, simple games anyone can enjoy. There's a mismatch between our expectations and Game Freak's vision.

Another thing is how far technology has progressed. Imagine playing a 3D MMO shooter on your 2010 smartphone - if you had suggested that at the time, I would have laughed. Now that gaming smartphones are a thing, we expect a console, which is literally dedicated to gaming, to produce something far higher quality than what a phone is capable of. However, Pokemon games have remained largely the same in terms of content and execution, for better or for worse. Your opinion will depend on whether or not you think Pokemon should be a visionary, boundary-pushing game, or what it's always been - a simple adventure for all. (See first paragraph.)

My opinion is that the franchise has regressed in some ways (mechanics, difficulty level/challenge, events) and improved in others (lore, story, characters, settings). It's not on a total downward trend.
 
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