SwSh Is Pokemon losing steam?

[Mega Meganium]

i know im late to this thread, but I think GF/Pokemon as a company has way too many ideas. They def aren't running out, as ive said many times before, they have a lot of ideas they just dont know how to "execute" them

I find the problem is that they introduce new ideas (contests, movies, pokeathlon, Secret Bases, Megas, Z moves, horde battles, SOS battles, the list goes on) and then drop them as soon as the next sequel, thus not giving those ideas a chance to realize their potential.

That might be part of the reason why the main series tends to be late to the game in improvements.

 

[Cute Charm]

I think they did keep the secret base idea. They just ditched it for a couple generations (5 or 1 depending on RSE or ORAS) and brought it back as your campsite.

Contests lasted through Gen V despite going through a name change.

Amie/Refresh/Camp are all slightly upgraded versions of the same thing.

Hoard battles probably got cut because they were pushing the limit of how many models can be on the screen at once without severe lag.

Nothing says SOS battles aren't returning. Especially since they're the slightly less laggy version of Hoard battles.

A lot of the ideas they have get brought back down the line. So maybe Pokethon and Movies will too. The latter more so if they decide to do a California, B.C., Toronto, or maybe New Zealand based region or something in the future.

The only thing that needs to be kept and expanded upon are the battle gimmicks. Who remembers rotation battles? No one. The biggest travisty was that megas needed to be expanded upon and there needed to be more Pokemon that could mega evolve. Z-moves could have been connected to Mega Evolution somehow and only Megas could use them. Gigantamax could have been the end result, the most powerful form that only lasted 3 turns. But nope, they're 2, soon to be 3, orphaned concepts.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I think they did keep the secret base idea. They just ditched it for a couple generations (5 or 1 depending on RSE or ORAS) and brought it back as your campsite.

Gen V actually technically had this too, though it was restricted to the Dream World.

 

[Zamajedi]

For me it is gaining it. With the new anime,live action movie and SwSh it is coming off as much more interesting. Maybe older fans are just burnt out.

The reason people think Gen 1-2 were the best is purely due to nostalgia. If you really look at it, the stories were meh and the pokemon could be really boring and unoriginal. They were mediocre. Gens 3-5 were where Pokemon starting stepping up their game, having better graphics, cooler pokemon, better story lines, etc. But the reason everyone hates Gen 5 is how they "have unoriginal pokemon". This sentiment makes me so mad. Are pokemon like Chandelure, Golurk, Victini, Leavanny, Volcarona, and Heatmor "unoriginal"?! Gens 6-8 are actually doing really well. The graphics look great, the Pokemon are amazing, the stories are awesome, and yet people hate Galar because it won't have pokemon that fit into the feel of the region. Is it really that big of a deal that Tropius won't be in Galar? NO! That's like being upset of a 24 pack of crayons when you wanted 48. That's not the amount it will have. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Having pokemon that fit the region is a really good and makes it feel much more realistic

 

[Cute Charm]

Gen V actually technically had this too, though it was restricted to the Dream World.

I mean, if we're getting technical...Secret Bases and the dream world house were just upgraded versions of your room from GSC.

Which makes me wonder what you can do with the inside of your tent if anything.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I mean, if we're getting technical...Secret Bases and the dream world house were just upgraded versions of your room from GSC.

Which makes me wonder what you can do with the inside of your tent if anything.

TIL your room was customizable in GSC

 

[Silktree]

Realistically, there is a good chance that SwSh will meet Game Freak's sales expectations despite Dexit. Do they deserve that feat? Not in my opinion.

Everything they've revealed has been underwhelming except for most Pokemon, which are "okay" and not really what I'm looking for anymore (especially when I can't help but think that they're taking old Pokemon's spots for an undetermined period). The Wild Area is a glorified template for a better take on the feature in the next generation, and that's really the only thing that has intrigued me. Camp is actually an idea I had last year, but I feel pretty indifferent. The less said about Dynamax, the better. I won't deny that I'm hard to please, but SwSh being hailed as the most ambitious Pokemon games yet really pisses me off; graphics aren't everything, especially when they're pretty average.

In terms of other media, the Detective Pikachu movie was a risk worth taking that ended up being decent, albeit not a smashing success. It would be unfortunate if they didn't do another live action movie, or if they insisted on making it a sequel which would ensure smaller box office numbers. As for the anime, the upcoming series is doing something different (unlike the games), but the execution really depends on how they handle the older regions. If they just make them generic and barely distinguishable except for the Pokemon (if that), that's a big no no from me. It's pretty unprecedented for me to be more interested in the anime than the games, and that says a lot.

 

[Diamandis]

Realistically, there is a good chance that SwSh will meet Game Freak's sales expectations despite Dexit. Do they deserve that feat? Not in my opinion.

Everything they've revealed has been underwhelming except for most Pokemon, which are "okay" and not really what I'm looking for anymore (especially when I can't help but think that they're taking old Pokemon's spots for an undetermined period). The Wild Area is a glorified template for a better take on the feature in the next generation, and that's really the only thing that has intrigued me. Camp is actually an idea I had last year, but I feel pretty indifferent. The less said about Dynamax, the better. I won't deny that I'm hard to please, but SwSh being hailed as the most ambitious Pokemon games yet really pisses me off; graphics aren't everything, especially when they're pretty average.

In terms of other media, the Detective Pikachu movie was a risk worth taking that ended up being decent, albeit not a smashing success. It would be unfortunate if they didn't do another live action movie, or if they insisted on making it a sequel which would ensure smaller box office numbers. As for the anime, the upcoming series is doing something different (unlike the games), but the execution really depends on how they handle the older regions. If they just make them generic and barely distinguishable except for the Pokemon (if that), that's a big no no from me. It's pretty unprecedented for me to be more interested in the anime than the games, and that says a lot.

Regardless of how you personally feel about the games, this is actually one of Gamefreaks most ambitious pokemon games to date as in its not following the same old linear patter as most of the previous gens. No matter how much you are displeased with how GF and Pokemon are taking the direction of these games, you have to admit that everything they are doing this gen is completely new and different from what we've seen before.

Also, are the graphics that bad? I mean i really don't play too many games but from how the way previous games looked this is truly a step up in the right direction

 

[Cute Charm]

I think a lot of the problem that people have with the game stems from people wanting Breath of the Wild: Pokemon Edition and being let down about getting yet another Pokemon game. Its the same thing that happened with Animal Crossing. People wanted a 3D town like the race track in Mario Kart, but got the layout of the previous titles but with massively updated graphics, dynamic weather conditions, and sheep wearing shirts. Which I would say is a massive improvement on New Leaf, but it still ticked off some people because it wasn't exactly like the track.

The lesson is that people really need to keep their expectations low. Especially with Pokemon. I thought it was common knowledge that Game Freak takes half a generation to learn the hardware they're dealing with. Like how ORAS looked visually better than XY and SMUSUM looked better than ORAS. To me, Let's Go's graphics looked closer to ORAS, just decompressed and scaled up. Which was pretty much a step back from SMUSUM. Sword and Shield looks like the logical next step after Gen VII.

Either way, if people don't like these games due to the graphics, then there's always the games after. Like the third versions or the DPPt remakes. There's also still the obligatory second gen on the Switch that will look completely stunning since they figured out the hardware. But by the time the Switch U happens...it will be back to the same complaints again.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

as in its not following the same old linear patter as most of the previous gens.

There's no confirmation of that? In fact, according to the Affleck leak, the story is still linear.

you have to admit that everything they are doing this gen is completely new and different from what we've seen before.

It seems to me that it's mostly about building off of things, not totally new stuff.

• Dynamax and Gigantamax is made to use the concepts of Megas and Z-Moves in a new, more balanced way
• The Wild Area is supposed to improve on exploring routes, and also combines overworld encounters with random ones
• The stadium gyms are building on regular gyms
• The trainer cards build on the previous photo-taking stuff
• Camp builds on Amie and Refresh
• Cooking builds on Poffin and PokeBlock making
• Regional evolution builds on regional forms

It's not bad that they're doing that, I like that they're building on what we already like. But it doesn't seem like "completely new and different" content.

 

[Silktree]

Yep. It's all based on previous features in some way, which may be fine for most people but I need to see some actual innovation. In recent generations, we had Fairy, Mega Evolution, regional variants, Z-moves and Totem battles, which weren't that creative but showed some thinking outside the box. Now, the Wild Area is just about the least they could do to satiate BoTW fans, but it feels like a bigger Safari Zone with the non-random encounters introduced in LGPE. It also seems to be rather sparse from videos and critics' reports. I might feel differently if you could actually observe Pokemon do something interesting outside of battles like in Snap, but that is surely not the case here.

The graphics are a natural step up from SM, but they're pretty average for people who have played other Switch games and even PS3 or Wii U titles from almost a decade ago. I don't mind them, but to see the "detailed" environments passed off as a justification for certain shortcomings is just a bit annoying. They should either go all out with the graphics or admit that content takes precedence (I'd prefer the latter), but this mishmash isn't working for me.

 

[Cute Charm]

The thing is...pokemon has always been handheld. The main team has always worked with handheld hardware that may be a generation or two behind the current home console. Of course it's not going to be visually stunning like other games that have been on home consoles for the past decade in a half.

Despite having one of the most successful franchises ever Game Freak might as well be comparable to an indie company rather than something like in-house Nintendo R & D or SquareEnix or Capcom or whatever. So comparing Pokemon to games made by those companies is like comparing apples and oranges.

Also, licencing the main series out to Nintendo as a whole would just make the game feel like more like a spin off then a main series game. So if you think that will fix the problems the game has always had, then yeah. That will just cause more problems and complaints about how it doesn't feel like pokemon.

 

[Mega Meganium]

It’s not that the games are bad or getting worse, it’s that they’re not improving at the pace of the hardware and the rest of the video game market I think.

Nothing about Generation VIII (apart from maybe the whole not every species coded into the game thing) is worse than other entries in the main series. In fact, for the most part Generation VIII will likely be the best yet. But the thing is better for a main series Pokémon game =/= impressive quality for a major Switch title, and that’s what’s leaving people unsatisfied.

 

[BlueWaves]

It’s not that the games are bad or getting worse, it’s that they’re not improving at the pace of the hardware and the rest of the video game market I think.

Nothing about Generation VIII (apart from maybe the whole not every species coded into the game thing) is worse than other entries in the main series. In fact, for the most part Generation VIII will likely be the best yet. But the thing is better for a main series Pokémon game =/= impressive quality for a major Switch title, and that’s what’s leaving people unsatisfied.

Agreed. Thing is Pokemon has been really slow as a franchise in the era of the video game market. For example, it still lacks multiple save files while every other RPG has them, JRPG or not. Or releasing enhanced version with 80% of the same content in an era of DLC seems to be what vexing fans off. Or no difficulty settings to name a few. In fact, here's a video on what Pokemon is missing
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i44D-XLqLc&t=207s


And honestly, Pokemon is so rich to the point that TPC and GF could just decide to retire and give the work to literally anyone else ( Not that Nintendo would let them- let alone GF ). But even if that's not the case, one failure is going to ruin them- there that rich.

 

[Mega Meganium]

Agreed. Thing is Pokemon has been really slow as a franchise in the era of the video game market. For example, it still lacks multiple save files while every other RPG has them, JRPG or not. Or releasing enhanced version with 80% of the same content in an era of DLC seems to be what vexing fans off. Or no difficulty settings to name a few.

In hindsight, the fact that it took 20 years to replace HMs kinda says something about how late to the game this franchise is in making basic improvements. Or how about the fact that it’s the Switch era now and you still can’t have more than four moves at once?

 

[Phosphene]

Or how about the fact that it’s the Switch era now and you still can’t have more than four moves at once?

Eh, GameFreak actually looked into changing the number of moves and came to the conclusion that four is the magic number. There are plenty of examples of GameFreak being behind the times, but I wouldn't say the four move limit is one of them.

 

[godiego]

But the thing is better for a main series Pokémon game =/= impressive quality for a major Switch title, and that’s what’s leaving people unsatisfied.

but when have pokemon games every been impressive for any platform?

 

[Phosphene]

but when have pokemon games every been impressive for any platform?

Wasn't gen 7 pushing the limits of the 3DS, which is why it was so laggy at times?

 

[RileyXY1]

Wasn't gen 7 pushing the limits of the 3DS, which is why it was so laggy at times?

The Gen 7 games lagged mostly because of the Pokemon models. They were HD right from the start so they didn't have to continuously update them with every new console.

 

[BlueWaves]

Wasn't gen 7 pushing the limits of the 3DS, which is why it was so laggy at times?

That was for the old 3DS. If you played it on the New 3DS, the games were fine.