SwSh Is Pokemon losing steam?

[colours]

"game freak is running out of ideas" is a statement that's about as old as pokemon gaming itself, and it's tiring to hear every single generation with no objective evidence so far and it's basically saying "i don't like this change".

 

[AngryBinacle]

There are some real fundamental wrongs with the game (no real difficulty, lack of exploration, etc.), but it's not running out of ideas.

I still like this better than a third version / sequel.

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Well what is your dream Pokemon game then? What is it that you truly want for a Pokemon game? Because I'm not hating you for loving the game, I'm just warning you, like so fewer people are doing of where your money should be spent? Should you want a game with less Pokemon and expect to pay more for them in DLCs, or have them transfered over from Home to an already empty main game? I'm only addressing that there's nothing to offer for this DLC, all it is is just USUM all over again, but much more dumb down and less features (because some features are probably moved to mobile games such as Pokemon Masters). This isn't really a DLC, more than this is just a fix. I mean sure, we are all guilty of this, I'm just asking when is the line in the sand drawn?

Quoting TheUnluckyTug - "If we can't give our opinions about what's going on in the show (or game) currently? What's even the point of having a fandom (or this forum) to begin with? What, so we can all group together and only share our "positive" opinions about the show (game)? Yuck! No thank you! I think I'll stick to my freedom of speech, thank you very much."

 

[swiftgallade46]

Well what is your dream Pokemon game then? What is it that you truly want for a Pokemon game? Because I'm not hating you for loving the game, I'm just warning you, like so fewer people are doing of where your money should be spent? Should you want a game with less Pokemon and expect to pay more for them in DLCs, or have them transfered over from Home to an already empty main game? I'm only addressing that there's nothing to offer for this DLC, all it is is just USUM all over again, but much more dumb down and less features (because some features are probably moved to mobile games such as Pokemon Masters). This isn't really a DLC, more than this is just a fix. I mean sure, we are all guilty of this, I'm just asking when is the line in the sand drawn?

Quoting TheUnluckyTug - "If we can't give our opinions about what's going on in the show (or game) currently? What's even the point of having a fandom (or this forum) to begin with? What, so we can all group together and only share our "positive" opinions about the show (game)? Yuck! No thank you! I think I'll stick to my freedom of speech, thank you very much."

Where I choose to spend my money is my business and my business alone. If the game (subjectively!) is not acceptable in your opinion, that has no bearing on whether or not I will buy the DLC because I happen to firmly disagree.

And, respectfully, that quote is rather irrelevant in this context. Not a single person has asked you not to state your negative opinion. Disagreeing is not the same as silencing you.

 

[Phosphene]

I'm only addressing that there's nothing to offer for this DLC

Eh, that's your opinion. Not everyone thinks this DLC has "nothing to offer," and I say this as someone who has little interest in purchasing it currently. I even brought up the Kubfu towers--that's content right there.

all it is is just USUM all over again, but much more dumb down and less features

How is the DLC "just USUM all over again"? It's not an enhanced version like USUM was, it's a DLC expansion with entirely new areas. I also don't see how the DLC is more dumbed down/featureless than USUM nor how you could make those claims considering we know very little about the DLC.

(because some features are probably moved to mobile games such as Pokemon Masters).

Why would features meant for a console RPG be moved to non-RPG mobile games that GameFreak has little/nothing to do with?

 

[Grass Type Gardenia]

Eh, that's your opinion. Not everyone thinks this DLC has "nothing to offer," and I say this as someone who has little interest in purchasing it currently. I even brought up the Kubfu towers--that's content right there.

How is the DLC "just USUM all over again"? It's not an enhanced version like USUM was, it's a DLC expansion with entirely new areas. I also don't see how the DLC is more dumbed down/featureless than USUM nor how you could make those claims considering we know very little about the DLC.

Why would features meant for a console RPG be moved to non-RPG mobile games that GameFreak has little/nothing to do with?

How could people who love a franchise regardless be so blind with Peter Pan Syndrone from the fact that The Pokemon Company since Go have moved focus to mobile because that market makes a lot of money. They just want to make their games to make far more money with less effort spent. Is that what you really want from something that you love so dearly?

You love the franchise because it's a brand and it's fun to play. And I agree, it is fun, however the graphics pictures a different story that GF should ignore improving. They were best with 2D sprites, it's clear they are not good with 3D. They are behind Mario and Zelda when it comes to evolving a franchise. It's no wonder why Pikachu is the mascot, (they never want to evolve), and why Ash and Gary's Japanese names are based on Satoshi wanting to be better than Miyamoto. Well he did, as a juggernaut. But compared to effort, is a little short from what Miyamoto did 24 years ago on the N64.

Unless the company change themselves, it will never get any better.

 

[Phosphene]

How could people who love a franchise regardless be so blind with Peter Pan Syndrone from the fact that The Pokemon Company since Go have moved focus to mobile because that market makes a lot of money.

Irregardless of the fact that TPCi is giving more focus to some Pokemon mobile games, GameFreak isn't going to cut out features meant for an RPG and put them into a mobile game that they have almost nothing to do with. It makes zero sense for GameFreak to pivot towards mobile games when they typically have very little involvement in them (I think the only mobile game that GameFreak had any major involvement in was Quest, though I could be wrong). They are most likely going to continue focusing on console games because that's probably where most of their profits come from and because they primarily make games for consoles, not phones.

They just want to make their games to make far more money with less effort spent. Is that what you really want from something that you love so dearly?

Eh, I'm starting to get the feeling that the emptiness of SwSh was a little more than just laziness and greed. I mean, the game was developed in about two years (though concept work started in 2016), roughly half the time that it took to create BoTW.

Is that what you really want from something that you love so dearly?

While I disagree with some of your statements regarding SwSh and the DLC, does not mean that I am in full support of them. As I stated before, I was initially very wary of the DLC (and you can probably even find posts about me claiming that it feels cash-grabby), and I still am to some extent. And I was somewhat disappointed with SwSh (which in some part plays into why I am not really that interested in buying the DLC at the moment), especially compared to Mario Odyssey and BoTW, and do feel that it has several issues.

You love the franchise because it's a brand and it's fun to play.

What? I play the franchise because I'm a sadist who enjoys watching enslaved monsters beat each other up, not because of this thing you call "fun."

Okay, jokes aside I do enjoy the games because they're fun, though not because Pokemon is a brand.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

How could people who love a franchise regardless be so blind with Peter Pan Syndrone

Peter Pan Syndrome, an adult believing they are still a child, does not have anything to do with someone's perception of other people.

the Pokemon Company since Go have moved focus to mobile because that market makes a lot of money.

And what evidence do you have to prove that? Look at how Pokemon's abandoned updates for mobile games like Quest and Magikarp Jump, and compare that to how they're actively put in DLC for the console games.

It's no wonder why Pikachu is the mascot, (they never want to evolve), and why Ash and Gary's Japanese names are based on Satoshi wanting to be better than Miyamoto.

Reading symbolic interpretations into decisions made 20 years ago doesn't really prove your point. This isn't an English novel, there's not some hidden meaning to find there.

 

[swiftgallade46]

You love the franchise because it's a brand and it's fun to play.

Respectfully, who are you to tell me or anyone else why we love the franchise? My enjoyment has nothing to do with it being a brand. I enjoy the characters, world-building, battle system, designs, and gameplay. And that’s just the main series titles.
If you don’t enjoy it then fine, but don’t project your thoughts and feelings into the minds of others.

 

[BlueWaves]

The newest Sword and Shield Expansion Pass trailer doesn't look too impressive. It feels more like an overpriced patch than a DLC, not worth the $30. I mean at least with other DLC games such as Skyrim and Fallout 4, you get your money's worth, especially when there's a lot to do in the main game itself. With SwSh however, it just feels less like an effort made game like games before and more of a cash grab. The DLC makes Gen 7 look better. The only things that are worth appreciating is the returning Pokemon, that's it. The ''Galarian Star Tournament'' was something that should have been in the original game, and the Regional Forms is just GF grasping straws at this point.

If they were really out of ideas, they should have just said they are not making any more new Pokemon games in order to recharge their creative ideas, and are instead focusing on remakes instead.

Yes, I will be giving them a try, but after what happened with SwSh, I'm doubtful that they will ever improve. Even the things fake leakers come up with sound more entertaining than what GF originally did.

I can definitely see some complaints on the DLC. For, the traditional 3rd version, if you did not pick up Diamond and Pearl because of poor pacing as well as poor type distribution, you could pick up Platinum, which fixed all those problems as the same price of Diamond and Pearl.

The DLC, on the other hand, has positives, like you don’t have to give up your saves for the same adventure with additional content, as well as reintroducing existing Pokemon. That being said, DLC probably won't improve the base game. It doesn't improve the existing dungeons, fix the technical errors of the Wild Area, or improve character arcs of Marnie or Bede. Platinum fixed these problems from Diamond and Pearl by introducing the Distortion World, improving Surf Speed, as well as giving Cyrus a much needed backstory to help understand his motives. Based on the trailers of the DLC, it doesn't appear to fix the small size of Glimwood Tangle or provide more fleshing out on Bede and Marnie. The main draw of DLC should improve on an already great game- not fix the problems- like reintroducing Pokemon that don't exist in the base game despite GF saying there are no plans to add missing Pokemon. Makes it feel like they did Dexit to make money off the the fact that every Pokemon has a cult following.

Anyway, everyone has a reason to purchase the DLC, and mine is that I play competitive Pokemon so having the newly reintroduced Pokemon will be a valuable asset when team building as well as Gigantamax Soup for making Gigantamax less of a pain to grind. Everyone has their reasons for wanting the DLC and should you not try to force your views on others like that.

That being said, it's worth noting that one handheld base version + enhanced version ( Pearl + Platinum ) is cheaper than the expansion pass + Console Base Version ( DLC + Shield ) being a total of 80$ for the former two, and 90$ for the latter two.

"game freak is running out of ideas" is a statement that's about as old as pokemon gaming itself, and it's tiring to hear every single generation with no objective evidence so far and it's basically saying "i don't like this change".

How is the DLC is any way proof that GameFreak is running out of ideas? Much of the stuff in the DLC is unique to the DLC. I mean, I don't recall any previous games having a quest line where you go into one of two towers to train a little legendary in order to evolve it, for example. If GameFreak was truly out of ideas, I figure the DLC wouldn't even exist; instead we'd probably have something like a third version that's essentially an enhanced version a la Platinum, Emerald, or even USUM.

The Problem is not that their running out of ideas, but rather they are recycling old ideas constantly. 4 Grass Primates in Gen 8? Another Fighting/Dark Bear after Pangoro? Another unicorn despite their being already 2 while they could have made a Pegasus instead?Here's a comprehensive list on " What isn't a Pokemon " on Smogon by Pikachu315111.

And what evidence do you have to prove that? Look at how Pokemon's abandoned updates for mobile games like Quest and Magikarp Jump, and compare that to how they're actively put in DLC for the console games.

Mobile games are a concern for TPC and GF. They said in multiple interviews that XY had significantly reduced difficulty due to people having smartphones/computers to sway them away from console gaming. With Eurogamer on Let's Go, they openly said that the game was made easier to progress due to mobile games being so dominant for children. TPC is trying to compete with the mobile game department for sometime now, with a total of 9 mobile games, though only two are popularly endorsed, those being Masters and Go. Its probably a Japanese thing though, because mobile games are the most popular form of gaming in Japan currently.

 

[AngryBinacle]

Mobile games will never compete with big consoles.

 

[colours]

let's not forget that alongside bringing the old ideas back, they do come up with some new ones. credit where credit is due, is all. i've personally been more of a fan of a lot of game freak's objectmons and how well they're designed, for one. i can understand the frustrations of the same old idea being recycled, though it doesn't bother me a whole lot on a personal level. minor annoyance at best.

 

[AngryBinacle]

let's not forget that alongside bringing the old ideas back, they do come up with some new ones. credit where credit is due, is all. i've personally been more of a fan of a lot of game freak's objectmons and how well they're designed, for one. i can understand the frustrations of the same old idea being recycled, though it doesn't bother me a whole lot on a personal level. minor annoyance at best.

Object 'mons are not a real group, though, most of them have such odd, interesting or mystical backgrounds, you can't possibly put them in a homogenous group.

Their designs are sometimes far more original than cat #7. Not that I hate the cats.

Anyway, this isn't really a feature.

 

[colours]

Object 'mons are not a real group, though, most of them have such odd, interesting or mystical backgrounds, you can't possibly put them in a homogenous group.

you're right, they're not a real group by any means. they're something that i personally call the inanimate object inspired pokemon. that's getting into semantics territory, though. it's easier for me to group pokemon like klefki, vanillite family, honedge family, etc. into an easily, more identifiable group (again, for me).

 

[TechSkylander1518]

they are recycling old ideas constantly. 4 Grass Primates in Gen 8? Another Fighting/Dark Bear after Pangoro

You're reducing these down to their similarities, though. They all have their own unique inspiration, it's not like Game Freak said "Okay, let's set out to make another Grass-type primate, and see what we can use to justify it."

And this isn't exactly new to Gen 8, either. Look at Gen 3- we had another Poison snake (Seviper, after the Ekans line), two Water-type whales (Kyogre and Wailord), two Dragon/Flying dragons (Salamance and Rayquaza, after Dragonite), a Dark-type canine (Poochyena line, after the Houndour line), another Bug-type line consisting of a larvae, cocoon, and butterfly (Wurmple, after Caterpie), another big lazy Normal-type (Slaking, after Snorlax), another Fighting-type based on a fighting sport (Hariyama line, after the Machop line), another Normal-type cat (Skitty, after Meowth), another Grass-type based on a flower (Roselia, after Sunflora), and another Ice-type seal (Spheal line, after the Seel line). (If we include Pokemon intended to be counterparts, we could throw in Feebas and Plusle/Minun, but that seems too far IMO.)

Heck, we actually have, in total, four Dark-type canines- Zorua line, Houndoor line, Poochyena line, and the Nickit line- but because Grookey and Zarude are in prominent roles for their generation, it's easier to notice the repeated species there, so that line gets thrown around a lot.

(Also, 4? I only count three- Pansage line, Grookey line, and Zarude)

Another unicorn despite their being already 2 while they could have made a Pegasus instead?

G-Rapidash is literally an alternate form of the first unicorn, so I don't really know why you'd be upset that they'd reuse an original concept for a form that is supposed to be a reimagining of the original concept.

Mobile games are a concern for TPC and GF.

You'll notice I was asking this in response to the claim that they've "moved focus". I never said they didn't care about mobile, I'm saying that it's not more of a priority than console games.

TPC is trying to compete with the mobile game department for sometime now, with a total of 9 mobile games, though only two are popularly endorsed, those being Masters and Go.

Neglecting seven mobile games is not exactly something you do if your goal is to prioritize mobile games.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Why do you play pokemon if you hate it now?

 

[toastghost]

Me when I got a notification from this thread:

Me when I saw all the discourse, drama and hatred:

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that mobile games are a threat to the main series at all. I can't see the main series going mobile only, so nothing to worry about.

 

[Virbank Video]

I’m tempted to wait until the DLC is released before I pass judgement...but, you know... each to their own.

These threads always remind me of the fact that some fans are unaware of just how massive Pokémon actually is. Which is totally fine, I was too up until a few years ago.

Is Pokémon “losing steam”? That was the original question, right? The answer is objectively no. Now excuse me while I browse shirts with Pokémon on them selling for like a billion pounds. (How I would love to be able to justify buying one of those).

Seriously though in response to the OP, whether you continue with Pokémon or call it quits, whether you buy the DLC or not, that’s your prerogative - just like how it’s the prerogative of other people (including myself) to stand by something they love, acknowledge the fact that it has obvious flaws but decide to focus on the positive anyway. Deep down, do I honestly believe that Game Freak will ever come out with a Pokémon game which I will think is better than what were, in my opinion, the peak of the franchise - Black and White? No, I don’t. But am I going to continue buying the main series games on the day they come out? Absolutely. Because, man... even as a grown ass man, Pokémon still has the ability to take me to a place that no other game can. Pure, unfiltered, magic and joy.

Sorry... I got a tiny bit misty eyed and off topic there lol.

I just had to reply because I’ve seen the same stuff posted by the same user a few times now.

 

[Nodqfan]

No, it is not losing steam, the critics like the OP have just become more vocal.