Is there an Japanese-Western fan opinion divide affecting things?

[KrspaceT]

Was thinking this when the recent 'why friendly rivals are a thing' interview dropped.

In the anime, it is generally known that the fandoms have very different preferences, which is why BW, XY, and SM are swings in the East, West, East direction in where it is more popular.

Is that affecting the games too? Are the changes we don't like here, things the Japanese fandom wants? Do they prefer the nicer rivals, for example.

Or any of the other things we generally don't like here?

 

[Kallyle]

I’ve been wondering about that myself. However, I don’t think the Japanese fans appreciate Game Freak stripping down features from past games any more than we do. Maybe they wanted simplicity and a less-mean rival, but that doesn’t make the way Game Freak is doing things more desirable to them either.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

Personally I never really cared for the mean spirited rival. Blue sucked. There, I said it. I don't find some little punk insulting me as incentive to get better and always read his defeat quotes as more a sore loser trying to play it off as cool than a kid who still thinks he's better than me. At least with Silver there's character growth and sort of an explanation as to why he is the way he is.

I'd say there is a sort of divide in play, though I'd say gamefreak tries to cater towards a more western audience than anything else.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Meh, I never really cared about jerk rivals, but I don't like friendly rivals either. I want someone who's kind of annoying because I want the satisfaction of beating an annoying person at their own game, this is why I liked Barry as a rival so much. The rival doesn't need to be necessarily jerkish in order for them to be annoying.

 

[Blast]

I don't think it's as simple as a strict divide between two regions (if you can even call 'the West' a region). It's not like every Japanese fan likes friendly rivals and every 'Western' fan enjoys mean rivals, as has already been proven here. There are many more factors, such as age, gender and previous experience with Pokémon games that should be taken into account, along with the views of the creative team at GF.

Of course it's possible that in general there is a clear preference between regions, but you have to wonder how much that effects GF's decisions. They're making a game for a global audience, not just for Japanese or German fans. Also, I doubt you'll get much feedback on here from native Japanese, you'll be better off asking around on Japanese forums or on 2ch.

 

[Ereshkigal]

I've actually kinda wondered if the Western audience figures in that heavily. Some of their decisions, like LGPE, make no sense from a Western perspective. But from a Japanese perspective, they might make perfect sense. And we know GF refused to go main console for years because Pokemon is primarily a portable game, and portable gaming has always been more popular in Japan (unlike the U.S., where home consoles and computers are long-time champions).

Plus, Japan gets a lot of special events, deals, and releases the West simply does not.

So, I think it would be better asked if there is a divide in the Japanese fanbase.

 

[Icy Wind]

Some of their decisions, like LGPE, make no sense from a Western perspective. But from a Japanese perspective, they might make perfect sense.

I don’t know, I don’t think Japan is happy about the lack of 600+ Pokemon in LGPE anymore than the rest of the world. Or the lack of content.

And we know GF refused to go main console for years because Pokemon is primarily a portable game, and portable gaming has always been more popular in Japan (unlike the U.S., where home consoles and computers are long-time champions).

Every Nintendo handheld has sold better in America than Japan. For example, the DS sold 30+ million units in Japan while it sold 50+ million in the Americas.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Actually, Japan barely received any exclusive events this year, maybe that's a start to blur lines between regions to make it fair? But if it's to make it fair, why not just make the Japanese exclusive stuff available anywhere else as well? This is the same problem that Splatoon 2 is having, there are gear that are accessible in the Japanese version that aren't accessible in any other version, despite the fact that we also read mangas of any franchise.

 

[Ereshkigal]

I don’t know, I don’t think Japan is happy about the lack of 600+ Pokemon in LGPE anymore than the rest of the world. Or the lack of content.

I dunno... There might be some who are. Japan is really, really big on remastered, updated remakes and ports... compared to the West, where such typically do far poorer.

Every Nintendo handheld has sold better in America than Japan. For example, the DS sold 30+ million units in Japan while it sold 50+ million in the Americas.

Japan has about 2/5ths the population of the U.S. Almost every video game system sells more units in the U.S. because of that. Proportionately, the DS did better in Japan.

Actually, Japan barely received any exclusive events this year, maybe that's a start to blur lines between regions to make it fair? But if it's to make it fair, why not just make the Japanese exclusive stuff available anywhere else as well? This is the same problem that Splatoon 2 is having, there are gear that are accessible in the Japanese version that aren't accessible in any other version, despite the fact that we also read mangas of any franchise.

We need to wait and see. Maybe the start of a new pattern? Or was it just a slow year?

 

[Feign]

Personally I never really cared for the mean spirited rival. Blue sucked. There, I said it. I don't find some little punk insulting me as incentive to get better and always read his defeat quotes as more a sore loser trying to play it off as cool than a kid who still thinks he's better than me. At least with Silver there's character growth and sort of an explanation as to why he is the way he is.

I'd say there is a sort of divide in play, though I'd say gamefreak tries to cater towards a more western audience than anything else.

He was barely a jerk. He was more of a tutorial disguised as a player, that taken at face value, clearly enjoyed your friendship and would mostly just tease you.

 

[Feign]

I don’t know, I don’t think Japan is happy about the lack of 600+ Pokemon in LGPE anymore than the rest of the world. Or the lack of content.

Every Nintendo handheld has sold better in America than Japan. For example, the DS sold 30+ million units in Japan while it sold 50+ million in the Americas.

It's pretty clear LGPE are a flawed product and Game Freak are aware of it. There is no reason to announce the 2019 games unless they don't believe their product will satisfy the base. As has been laid out, these are mainline games. They're not "all new", but they carry the Pocket Monster name in Japan where spinoffs are called Pokemon. Imagine announcing ORAS and then saying, "Don't worry, we're working on the next entries and here is the general time you can expect them." It's a disastrous marketing strategy unless you really want longtime fans to know they aren't being ignored. Hence:

Think of it like this: The Pokemon Company can't just not have a game where children aren't the audience on Switch. So they can compromise their vision of 2019 being an evolved game that's not entry level, or they can release LGPE first in the hopes that more people have a switch, children have their entry to Pokemon, and some of the people buying it for the GO version of Yellow are old fans who will then be drawn in and already have a switch for something that's going to be an experiment for them. Judging by Masuda's interviews, he feels very stilted and going against some of his central design ethos.

What I think happened is Game Freak saw reactions to that leaked (maybe purposefully*) Lapras screenshot and they were not positive. They can't not promote LGPE and they also can't say, "wait for 2019" because that means less sales. It's definitely being felt back home judging by Masuda on the defense, and the inclusions of Alola variants and megas just make what's missing stand out more. They got a bunch of awards in Japan for Sun and Moon and they're dropping almost all of what made those work to revert to a Gen VI style game with GO mechanics. Here is the reason listed for Ultra SuMo winning a CESA award of Excellence in Japan:

Set in the nature-rich Alola region, the story tells the secret of the legendary Pokémon, Necrozma. More than 400 kinds of Pokémon appear, with all the legendary Pokémon who featured in the past series, and "Team Rainbow Rocket" consisting of the antagonist group leaders of the previous installments in the series. The game can also be said to be a culmination of the series, and it has received a great deal of support from Pokémon fans, people playing Pokémon for the first time in a long time, and new Pokémon players, due to the large amount of gameplay possible and the enjoyment level.

And 2017:

New adventures are set in the “Alola region”. Everything evolves in the game: “trials” to battle with Nero[?], “Poké Ride” to ride a Pokémon for travel, moreover, “Z-Move” to unleash a powerful attack, a new communication feature “Festival Plaza,” and so on. This completely new version attracted many fans from children to adults. The game won the award by gaining such supporters.[/QUOTES]

So it's definitely not just us feeling it. (Although Festival Plaza, Japan? You sure?) Unfortunately, this was likely in development too long to change and delay unless they also delayed 2019, as the chances of them releasing a non-entry game on a system without an entry game is pretty much zero. I think we all want the same thing here, we just need to stop extrapolating information based on a game releasing in a month that they need to sell. Them admitting flaws before a product even releases is bad business. That's all it comes down to.

*Considering the spaceworld Gold leak and Meltan "leak", I feel something is afoot.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

It's pretty clear LGPE are a flawed product and Game Freak are aware of it. There is no reason to announce the 2019 games unless they don't believe their product will satisfy the base. As has been laid out, these are mainline games. They're not "all new", but they carry the Pocket Monster name in Japan where spinoffs are called Pokemon. Imagine announcing ORAS and then saying, "Don't worry, we're working on the next entries and here is the general time you can expect them." It's a disastrous marketing strategy unless you really want longtime fans to know they aren't being ignored. Hence:

View attachment 114150

Think of it like this: The Pokemon Company can't just not have a game where children aren't the audience on Switch. So they can compromise their vision of 2019 being an evolved game that's not entry level, or they can release LGPE first in the hopes that more people have a switch, children have their entry to Pokemon, and some of the people buying it for the GO version of Yellow are old fans who will then be drawn in and already have a switch for something that's going to be an experiment for them. Judging by Masuda's interviews, he feels very stilted and going against some of his central design ethos.

What I think happened is Game Freak saw reactions to that leaked (maybe purposefully*) Lapras screenshot and they were not positive. They can't not promote LGPE and they also can't say, "wait for 2019" because that means less sales. It's definitely being felt back home judging by Masuda on the defense, and the inclusions of Alola variants and megas just make what's missing stand out more. They got a bunch of awards in Japan for Sun and Moon and they're dropping almost all of what made those work to revert to a Gen VI style game with GO mechanics. Here is the reason listed for Ultra SuMo winning a CESA award of Excellence in Japan:



And 2017:

The reason they had to say gen 8 was coming in 2019 is because there was widespread confusion with the LGPE trailer drop. Several hours after the trailer was put up, the official twitter announced that gen 8 was coming later. It has nothing to do with the product itself, but the people who were confused as to why "gen 8 is starting with a Yellow remake".

The whole idea behind LGPE is to pull in a younger audience than usual and to serve as an entry level game to people who don't normally play mainseries pokemon games.

 

[Feign]

The reason they had to say gen 8 was coming in 2019 is because there was widespread confusion with the LGPE trailer drop. Several hours after the trailer was put up, the official twitter announced that gen 8 was coming later. It has nothing to do with the product itself, but the people who were confused as to why "gen 8 is starting with a Yellow remake".

The whole idea behind LGPE is to pull in a younger audience than usual and to serve as an entry level game to people who don't normally play mainseries pokemon games.

Ugh. My reply got eaten by refresh. Darn system memory.

Anyway, you're incorrect in the first paragraph. They released the trailer during a press event that journalists were tweeting about. They also announced 2019 at that event. They planned to announce both at the same time and any confusion wasn't a factor. That they didn't release anything other than it was an all-new core game that longtime fans could look forward to should show their confidence in the game being enough. It wasn't.

I agree with the second half wholeheartedly and I keep trying to communicate that. People just keep basing things of LGPE as if it is going to impact the rest of the franchise. The characters did not get less jerky solely because of graphics. Gladion had a part in Sun and Moon. Hugh and Calem both were standoffish. What's going on is that people aren't understanding LGPE is for children. He was open about it before the backlash started really kicking in.

Marketing has decided the best option is to try and push this as made equally for old and longtime fans when its clear as day it is something we can enjoy, without being made for us. That's why Masuda seems so weird lately. Even still, he said this:

Before release of Black 2 White 2, which are generally beloved games around here. The difference is those games were made for everyone because each game had to be. What's happening now is Pokemon Go is affording them the opportunity to create a supplemental introduction to Pokemon while focusing on a dedicated, next-level gen 8. People trying to make sense of LGPE are missing the point entirely. He said what he said about rivals to defend LGPE, not future decisions. Everything right now is to promote one game and not the franchise. It's why I keep bringing up his quote on mothers in the kitchen.

They designed a game to appeal to someone who isn't playing it.

That will never be the case for a new generation and should be taken in context. I don't mind if people are disappointed. I just think the hyperbole about the franchise is silly when you look at things from a business angle and what has been said.

 

[Poke Dragon]

People just keep basing things of LGPE as if it is going to impact the rest of the franchise.

Except that it will, Masuda himself said on Nintendo Everything that he wants to make Let's Go the basis for the next 20 years of Pokemon.

 

[Prof. SALTY]

Except that it will, Masuda himself said on Nintendo Everything that he wants to make Let's Go the basis for the next 20 years of Pokemon.

What he means is (arguably) up to interpretation. I say arguably because literally in that same quote he talks about how he wants to add more variety in gameplay going forward but haters kinda just ignore that bit.

I feel like he's just saying this is a 'fresh start' of sorts; a way to get new fans involved and introducing a series of games running along side the mainseries games.

I'm looking forward to seeing more variety in pokemon games and for a new generation of fans to get involved.

 

[Silktree]

The opinions on the Japanese forum Matome aren't very different than what you see on western forums. The more important question is what kids (not forum-savvy aficionados) will think about LGPE compared to the 3DS games, but good luck researching that outside of anecdotes.

Everything evolves in the game: “trials” to battle with Nero[?], “Poké Ride” to ride a Pokémon for travel, moreover, “Z-Move” to unleash a powerful attack, a new communication feature “Festival Plaza,” and so on.

The most popular feature here is PokeRide and it's been carried over in some sense. I don't see people complaining about the return of gyms or the absence of Z-moves, let alone the Festival Plaza. And I'm sure that even in Japan a lot of people will hesitate to call USUM the culmination of the series.

 

[Dieter]

Every Nintendo handheld has sold better in America than Japan. For example, the DS sold 30+ million units in Japan while it sold 50+ million in the Americas.

Yeah, but Japan has a population of 'only' 126.8 million, while the US alone already has a population of 325.7 million. So maybe the absolute number of units is higher, the area of distribution of also much bigger. So their sales are actually better in Japan, based on what you said.

 

[Dieter]

Except that it will, Masuda himself said on Nintendo Everything that he wants to make Let's Go the basis for the next 20 years of Pokemon.

You might be better off reading the source first, which is a partly paraphrased and partly quoted and translated article too, but which already presents a different narrative. In the interview he's talking about the success and influence of GO and the article says 'Masuda has high hopes that Pokémon: Let’s Go will give the series a boost big enough to last that long [the next 20 years]. “The biggest thing I feel with Let’s Go is really hoping that it’s going to serve as sort of a base or starting point for the next 20 years of Pokémon,” he says'.

So basically, he's hoping that the LGPE will create a new following that will stay with the franchise another twenty years.

 

[Silktree]

If the new base like LGPE, they will not want to see its features disappear.

 

[Ereshkigal]

The opinions on the Japanese forum Matome aren't very different than what you see on western forums. The more important question is what kids (not forum-savvy aficionados) will think about LGPE compared to the 3DS games, but good luck researching that outside of anecdotes..

Ah, this is good info. In that case, I don't know what Masuda is drinking to think this is a good idea.

And, you can research it, but first you need a time machine...