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Is this proof that Guzma was actually abused by his parents?

Vchanfan

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Someone that posted this said the translation mentions beating someone black and blue.
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As I understand it, that’s a Japanese idiom, basically meaning to lose very decisively.

I think USUM makes it pretty clear he was talking about getting beat in a Pokémon battle.
 
I dunno why folks assumed that he was abused by his parents? Sometimes I feel like the fandom just likes to add dark and edgy subject matter into the franchise for no reason. :/

I mean, Sun and Moon already have a fairly dark storyline relative to every other mainline Pokémon game. And it’s fairly easy to interpret something the wrong way.
 
I dunno why folks assumed that he was abused by his parents? Sometimes I feel like the fandom just likes to add dark and edgy subject matter into the franchise for no reason. :/
Like when some people thought the Hi Skitty doll in ORAS was a dead Skitty. I still get a kick out of that.
 
I dunno why folks assumed that he was abused by his parents? Sometimes I feel like the fandom just likes to add dark and edgy subject matter into the franchise for no reason. :/

In fairness, I think it's certain that there is friction between Guzma and his parents. So it's relatively easy to misread certain cues as suggesting that the situation is worse than it is.

In Guzma's old house, we see a duffel bag full of "broken and bent" golf clubs. His father also says this:

> "It's good for kids to experience their own journeys, but running away without even word to your parents is another thing entirely. I tried to set that boy of mine straight, but when I did, I was the one who got beat..."

(This is the line that includes the phrase "got beat black and blue" in Japanese, but like I said, from my research into the subject, I've been lead to believe that the phrase is being used idiomatically.)

Some people read this as the dad saying that he intended to use corporal punishment in order to discipline Guzma for running away, until Guzma turned the tables and "beat" his dad. And then more people connected that to the golf clubs in the corner of the room, inferring that Guzma's dad had tried to use one of those clubs to beat him with. Another thing that some people have taken up as evidence is Guzma's talk about smashing things in frustration, and with him saying "Guzma!!! What is wrong with you?!" to himself after losing. The idea being that Guzma is mirroring the abuse that he went through by smashing things and scolding himself in the same way that his father did to him.

But to me, I think this is reading too deeply into things. The golf clubs in the corner could be damaged because Guzma has always had a short fuse that caused him to smash things whenever he got frustrated, which is something that I'd say we're led to believe happened quite a bit in his youth because his strength was never recognized in a way that satisfied him (this is explicitly why he gravitates to Lusamine, because she offers him praise). Look at his room - there are a bunch of bronze trophies and one silver, which his mom says he won for competing in battle competitions, but there are no gold trophies. He's always been in second or third place.

As for what his dad said, it's like... this is Pokémon, y'know? I get that Pokémon can have dark moments - just look at N's backstory - but what seems more likely? That Guzma's dad tried to "teach him a lesson" through abuse with a weapon that could have very easily killed a young Guzma or left him severely wounded (to say nothing of the moral implications of Guzma reconnecting with his parents in the post-game if his father did something so outrageously horrific), or that they had a dispute and attempted to settle it in the way that virtually every single dispute in this universe is resolved, through a Pokémon battle? (Which Guzma then won, and probably latched onto as validation of his own strength. A "See, I proved you wrong, old man!" sort of thing.) Compounding this is the dad's additional post-game dialogue that got added in USUM:

> "That boy of mine came waltzing back home after all this time, so I challenged him to a battle... and I got beat bad. Kids really grow up fast, don't they? And that boy of mine grew up to be huge!"

This firmly puts the phrase "got beat" into the context of losing a Pokémon battle.

But really, this was kind of a recurring problem with the Alola games, as you can see with the similar misconception that Lusamine's neglectful behavior was subtly influenced by Nihilego for years and years ever since Mohn's disappearance, even though that's not really how Nihilego works and even though the game portrays Lusamine as having never seen Nihilego until our first trip to Aether Paradise. In fairness though, I don't want to put all the blame on the fans for these misunderstandings, because perhaps the existence of the misreadings is a sign that the story wasn't clear enough in communicating its ideas.
 
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WHen you go to Guzma's house and stumble upon the battered clubs, it's pretty much heavily implied he got abused as a kid.
 
Like when some people thought the Hi Skitty doll in ORAS was a dead Skitty. I still get a kick out of that.
Funny you mention the Hi Skitty doll. I've never heard the dead Skitty theory, but if you read the letters by the kid who owns the doll (Professor Cozmo), it's implied that his father works a lot, so his mom is having an affair and their marriage is falling apart. So yeah, people can get really edgy at times, but there's already some darker elements to the Pokémon world, even if it's just in subtext.
 
WHen you go to Guzma's house and stumble upon the battered clubs, it's pretty much heavily implied he got abused as a kid.
I think the interpretation here is meant to be that he tried playing golf, was not very good, and broke the clubs out of frustration. It seemed like more of a commentary on his temper rather than a suggestion that the clubs were used to beat him.
 
I think the interpretation here is meant to be that he tried playing golf, was not very good, and broke the clubs out of frustration. It seemed like more of a commentary on his temper rather than a suggestion that the clubs were used to beat him.

I don't think so.

Between none of the prizes being a first place one and his tendency of lashing out when he doesn't come out as 'number 1', his father's dialogue, the battered golfclubs and Guzma's own dialogue of beating stuff down and scolding himself when he loses, it's pretty clear that he got abused for not being "good enough" and it still affects him.

Especially with Lusamine being the only one acknowledging his strength causing him to offer his aid, pretty much indicating that even despite winning a lot of trophies, he still got abused because his dad didn't deem him strong enough cause it wasn't a first place trophy, and refusing to acknowledge him. (Which, if you win so many trophies, certainly someone will acknowledge you.)
 
I don't think so.

Between none of the prizes being a first place one and his tendency of lashing out when he doesn't come out as 'number 1', his father's dialogue, the battered golfclubs and Guzma's own dialogue of beating stuff down and scolding himself when he loses, it's pretty clear that he got abused for not being "good enough" and it still affects him.

Especially with Lusamine being the only one acknowledging his strength causing him to offer his aid, pretty much indicating that even despite winning a lot of trophies, he still got abused because his dad didn't deem him strong enough cause it wasn't a first place trophy, and refusing to acknowledge him. (Which, if you win so many trophies, certainly someone will acknowledge you.)

//tw abuse/violence

I don’t recall what his father’s dialogue was exactly, but I’m just reluctant to believe that Pokémon would intentionally make references to physical parental abuse especially with a weapon. Granted, it is rather vague so it isn’t wrong by any means to interpret it that way, but I just feel like his own self-doubt is more likely. Either way, he would still be vulnerable to manipulative validation from others such as Lusamine.
 
Between none of the prizes being a first place one and his tendency of lashing out when he doesn't come out as 'number 1', his father's dialogue, the battered golfclubs and Guzma's own dialogue of beating stuff down and scolding himself when he loses, it's pretty clear that he got abused for not being "good enough" and it still affects him.
A lot of this evidence is stuff already accounted for in swiftgallade's interpretation lol. You can't refute a theory that says "Guzma broke the clubs because he got upset when he wasn't the best at something" by pointing to the broken clubs and the trophies that show he wasn't the best at something- that's evidence already in the theory. And Esserise's post above has a pretty good analysis of why it makes more sense to think his dad's dialogue was "beat" in the context of a Pokemon battle and not actually being abused.
 
Content warning for abuse

Let’s look at the dad’s epilogue sentence again:

> "That boy of mine came waltzing back home after all this time, so I challenged him to a battle... and I got beat bad. Kids really grow up fast, don't they? And that boy of mine grew up to be huge!"

Personally speaking, the idea of that kind of happy-go-lucky reconciled dialogue coming from an abusive monster who clobbered his son with a nine-iron just makes my stomach turn. It’s like, holy shit dude, this man should be in jail, not having a cheery reunion with his victim at the old family homestead.
 
Child abuse is a serious topic and I'm glad that the franchise hardly focuses on it. Lillie being emotionally abused by Lusamine was already bad enough, I wouldn't want Guzma to be in a similar situation.
 
Thank you for the deep analysis, Esserise. That makes a lot of sense.
I didn't know about the Professor Cozmo letters. That's pretty dark in itself too. Having stuff like that in the game is why, to me, it's understandable people can interpret other matters in the game as darker than they are.
 
WHen you go to Guzma's house and stumble upon the battered clubs, it's pretty much heavily implied he got abused as a kid.
Yeah there seems to be alot of child abuse in this game. If guzma had sweet supportive parents why did he run away from home? The pokemon did not have an effect on lusamine right away. It is pretty obvious she did most of that horrible stuff on her own. I think in this game they were trying to show different forms of struggles and how someone handles it. Lusamine mistreated her kids because they are a reminder that her husband is not there. Guzma's parents abused him because he was not perfect. They have this image issue thing if you noticed. His mom was sweet but only cause she knew Guzma was too. He does seem to be evil at first. But when you think about him making team skull so kids who felt like him had a place. That really does make you think he is not the bad guy. Also the implied ptsd and bottles all over his room. That is a broken person.the people who ignored him and did not care about his dreams and his well being they are messed up. Guzma's old house has an air of sadness. Even when you go on his bed. It implies he ran way a really long time ago. I think he did because he worried about his mom. They don't talk about their relationship but the dad is so negative but the mom isn't. So I think he is there for her.
 
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