Review JN053: Catch the Legend!? Find the Guardian of Water - Suicune!!

[Proud_box]

I find it very weird how goh always have right pokemon for the situation.Does 6 pokemon rule even apply to him?

 

[Twilight-Kun]

I find it very weird how goh always have right pokemon for the situation.Does 6 pokemon rule even apply to him?

Nah, everyone just reads the scripts ahead of time so they know what to bring along with them

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

So, the reasons why I'm fine with Goh catching Suicune:

1. Goh being able to catch Suicune with a single Poké Ball made sense, since Suicune was established to be low on stamina, plus it was poisoned. So it was really weak and unable to resist being caught.
2. He didn't catch it for the sake of adding it to his collection. He caught it to save it from the hunters, and it was the best option he felt was available for him at the moment.
3. Suicune didn't initially trust Goh. He had to actually work and earn its trust by being kind and unselfish towards it.
4. When Goh brings Suicune some Berries to heal it, he doesn't bring the Berries within Suicune's reach by himself. He lets Raichu do it instead, keeping his distance, as he understands that Suicune doesn't trust him yet. He only gets close when he needs to use a Potion and put on a bandage, something that Raichu can't do.
5. Once the hunters are dealt with, Goh is willing to let Suicune go, because he knows it has an important job to do. It's Suicune's own choice, after seeing Goh's selflessness, right down to the point of not wanting to keep him for selfish reasons.
6. While staying under Goh's ownership, Suicune doesn't stay at the Cerise Park, which means that it's not going to be there as an OP mon for Goh to constantly have access to. A perfect compromise between it staying with him and yet also getting to do what it's supposed to do.
7. And finally: some people are upset that Goh caught a Legendary Pokémon before Ash did. Never mind that Ash has caught a rare Ultra Beast, a Greninja with an almost never-before-seen transformation, a unique Lycanroc form, and a Mythical Pokémon, the last of which are even rarer that Legendaries. So yeah. I don't think Ash is faring worse than Goh in terms of catching rare and strong Pokémon.

So yeah. I'm perfectly okay with Goh's capture in this episode.

 

[Enzo]

Well, I wasn't even gonna say anything here cuz this thread is old as hell and this thing has already been beaten to death, but I'm bored soo...

Spoiler

- This episode treated Suicune so... weird, to say the least. I mean, let's think about this scenario here: You are this powerful guardian of water and stuff, u see this lake poisoned and heal it. Then, not much longer after, the same lake gets polluted again. Then again. Then again. C'mon, wouldn't you get at least slightly suspicious? And the fact that, when Suicune did noticied something was up, it attacked... the van instead of the hunters themselves? It pratically just let itself get poisoned? How it just stood still let it itself get attacked, captured and hurt?

- The ''last ditch effort pokeball rescue'' is already problematic on it's own. I did a whole analysis of this event in the Absol review thread, so check it in full there if you are interested, but here's a TL;DR:
* The Pokémon is put in a situation where it absolutely cannot afford to say ''no'' to the capture, since it's only other option is death, thus being forced to enter the ball;
* Goh wins no matter what, since the capture will still be counted on his Rotom Phone no matter what happens to the Pokémon afterwards. Therefore, it doesn't matters if Goh releases the Pokémon afterwards (keep in mind his goal is to capture all Pokémon, not necessarily keep them), it's a guaranteed W regardless, making the entire balance pending towards Goh the whole time, even if he doesn't does that out of malice, which I personally don't think he does, may I add.

- Also, man, Goh just happened to leave the lab with his all powerful Cinderace, his Alolan Exeggutor that was just big enough to lift Goh and Suicune towards the top of the high and conveniently placed tree, a super helpful Raichu that loves to give berries, specially the poison-curing type, and he even found a Drowzee, a Pokémon of an excelent type to win against the Poison typings the hunter use? My my, what a lucky boy Goh is right?

- And even tho Suicune absolutely hated his guts for capturing it, it just magically warmed up to Goh in minutes and allowed him to keep itself. How good is that, correct?

Spoiler

*sighs* You wanna know what exactly I hate about it, besides the extremely contrived writing of this episode? What I loathe about it?

Remember that one Larvitar Ash bonded with in Johto for a bunch of episodes? He didn't get it.
Brock and the Stantler? Nope.
The one Swablu May nursed back to health? Nah.
Misty and her newly evolved Togetic? Pffttt.
Max and Jirachi? No.
Ash and the Riolu that he saved from the claws of a ruthless hunter? (sounds familiar?) Nope.
Iris and the Zweilous she helped, besides that other bunch of Dragons? Nah...
Bonnie with Tyrantrum and Zygarde? Nope nope nope.
Mallow and Shaymin, who was heavily implied to be her own dead mother reborn? No.

No one got it. They did the same and some arguably did even more than what Goh did. But Goh is allowed to capture it. Because Goh is the perfect protagonist, right viewers?

Do you love him now, viewers????

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

You are this powerful guardian of water and stuff, u see this lake poisoned and heal it. Then, not much longer after, the same lake gets polluted again. Then again. Then again. C'mon, wouldn't you get at least slightly suspicious?

Of course it could've noticed something suspicious. But it still had a responsibility to do. The hunters knew this and were taking advantage of it.

And the fact that, when Suicune did noticied something was up, it attacked... the van instead of the hunters themselves? It pratically just let itself get poisoned? How it just stood still let it itself get attacked, captured and hurt?

It attacked the van because it was the thing polluting the lake, so of course it'd want to stop it. And it couldn't attack the hunters afterwards because, as established, it was low on stamina.

- And even tho Suicune absolutely hated his guts for capturing it, it just magically warmed up to Goh in minutes and allowed him to keep itself. How good is that, correct?

It didn't "magically warm up to him". Goh had to earn its trust and take his time to do so. Details explained in my post above.

*sighs* You wanna know what exactly I hate about it, besides the extremely contrived writing of this episode? What I loathe about it?

Remember that one Larvitar Ash bonded with in Johto for a bunch of episodes? He didn't get it.
Brock and the Stantler? Nope.
The one Swablu May nursed back to health? Nah.
Misty and her newly evolved Togetic? Pffttt.
Max and Jirachi? No.
Ash and the Riolu that he saved from the claws of a ruthless hunter? (sounds familiar?) Nope.
Iris and the Zweilous she helped, besides that other bunch of Dragons? Nah...
Bonnie with Tyrantrum and Zygarde? Nope nope nope.
Mallow and Shaymin, who was heavily implied to be her own dead mother reborn? No.

No one got it. They did the same and some arguably did even more than what Goh did. But Goh is allowed to capture it. Because Goh is the perfect protagonist, right viewers?

Do you love him now, viewers????

Sure some of those Pokémon would've been great team additions, but maybe you should also focus on what Pokémon the main characters have caught, instead of just what they didn't catch. For example, think about Ash's Naganadel, Melmetal, Dragonite, and Gengar, Misty and Brock getting Mega Evolutions (not catches technically, but special sill), and many, many other moments where a main character bonded with a Pokémon so that the capture feels all the more deserved.

 

[Enzo]

Of course it could've noticed something suspicious. But it still had a responsibility to do. The hunters knew this and were taking advantage of it.

It attacked the van because it was the thing polluting the lake, so of course it'd want to stop it. And it couldn't attack the hunters afterwards because, as established, it was low on stamina.

So instead of waiting to see what/who was doing that, in a way more strategic way, it just kept on doing it anyways multiple times and got tired, which lead to it's capture. Suicune definitely didn't thought things through there, did it? And even if it was low in stamina, man, that's a legendary right there. It got tired way to fast, and even then, tired as it was, it literally gave itself up by not only letting itself get poisoned, but it stood there, got attacked, and captured. That one felt almost insulting to it's inteligence.

It didn't "magically warm up to him". Goh had to earn its trust and take his time to do so. Details explained in my post above.

Earnerd it's trust in what? 10 minutes tops? Man, for a legendary known to run away from humans and not trust them at all, it sure flipped the disk real quick didn't it?

I'm sorry, and I don't mean this to be rude, I swear, but you can write an entire PhD thesis on how good of a person Goh was for taking care of it, it's not gonna change on how violently contrived the entire scenario that even led to Suicune even be in that position was. The way it was set up was very weirdly written. Again, explained it in my post above.

Sure some of those Pokémon would've been great team additions, but maybe you should also focus on what Pokémon the main characters have caught, instead of just what they didn't catch. For example, think about Ash's Naganadel, Melmetal, Dragonite, and Gengar, Misty and Brock getting Mega Evolutions (not catches technically, but special sill), and many, many other moments where a main character bonded with a Pokémon so that the capture feels all the more deserved.

Well now that you mentioned it, firstly, none of those are major legendaries. I have literally seen you talking how Ultra Beasts are not legendaries in another thread. And guess what? Naganadel got released after the League where it didn't even do a lot, Melmetal also didn't do a lot, and both Dragonite and Gengar are being treated horribly because JN refuses to developt Ash's team. Not the best examples, right?

And you literally proved my point here. They bonded with all of those Pokémon. Why didn't they get it then? Why didn't Ash kept the Larvitar and Riolu? Why didn't May get the Swablu? Why Misty released her Togetic? And all of the others? They bonded and took care of it just as much as Goh did with Suicune, some factually even more than him, but they don'y get to keep it. Why is Goh the only one who's allowed to get the mon in question? Why is he so special? If they made the exception for him, with a box legendary no less, why didn't the other get their Pokémon too?

That's why I hate it.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

So instead of waiting to see what/who was doing that, in a way more strategic way, it just kept on doing it anyways multiple times and got tired, which lead to it's capture. Suicune definitely didn't thought things through there, did it?

It was just doing what its purpose was. There's no grand planning skills required for what usually does.

And even if it was low in stamina, man, that's a legendary right there. It got tired way to fast, and even then, tired as it was, it literally gave itself up by not only letting itself get poisoned, but it stood there, got attacked, and captured. That one felt almost insulting to it's inteligence.

I doubt it got tired up within minutes. It was at least days, maybe weeks, that it kept purifying this one lake and using up its stamina. It didn't "let itself be poisoned" or get attacked and caught. It was just too tired to fight back at that point.

Earnerd it's trust in what? 10 minutes tops? Man, for a legendary known to run away from humans and not trust them at all, it sure flipped the disk real quick didn't it?

We didn't see how long it exactly was, and I think it was more than 10 minutes. Also, it's not just the time that matters, it's also the quality of Goh's actions.

Well now that you mentioned it, firstly, none of those are major legendaries. I have literally seen you talking how Ultra Beasts are not legendaries in another thread. And guess what? Naganadel got released after the League where it didn't even do a lot, Melmetal also didn't do a lot, and both Dragonite and Gengar are being treated horribly because JN refuses to developt Ash's team. Not the best examples, right?

Naganadel may not be a Legendary, but it's still a rare and powerful Pokémon that Ash possessed for many episodes, same with Melmetal, regardless of how much they did. Ash has used each of them more than Goh has used Suicune, so I fail to see the amount of usage being a deciding factor here. And both Dragonite and Gengar 1) still have a lot more potential screentime and 2) have been used and been successful in important battles.

And you literally proved my point here. They bonded with all of those Pokémon. Why didn't they get it then? Why didn't Ash kept the Larvitar and Riolu? Why didn't May get the Swablu? Why Misty released her Togetic? And all of the others? They bonded and took care of it just as much as Goh did with Suicune, some factually even more than him, but they don'y get to keep it. Why is Goh the only one who's allowed to get the mon in question? Why is he so special? If they made the exception for him, with a box legendary no less, why didn't the other get their Pokémon too?

That's why I hate it.

I admit, some of those cases definitely would've warranted captures (most especially Swablu), but Ash never intended to keep Larvitar, only deliver it back to its mother; Misty released Togetic because it was all grown up and it was its time to move on in life by protecting others of its kind; and Jirachi was going to fall into a millennial sleep anyway. And like I said before, other characters have gotten special, earned Pokémon too. Goh is not unique in that regard.

 

[Craiden]

Ignoring the Suicune element for a moment (as long as no one is attacked over their opinion, the discourse has been fine, for the most part) something to keep in mind for "why does Gou always have the right Pokemon?" though Twilight's answer is perfectly acceptable too, while I don't know Pokemon Go, I do know that the Gen 8 games you essentially have access to your "Pokemon Storage System" at any point unlike previous gens, so it's not unreasonable (for me) that Go is able to have the right Pokemon on hand for most scenarios.

 

[Enzo]

Ignoring the Suicune element for a moment (as long as no one is attacked over their opinion, the discourse has been fine, for the most part) something to keep in mind for "why does Gou always have the right Pokemon?" though Twilight's answer is perfectly acceptable too, while I don't know Pokemon Go, I do know that the Gen 8 games you essentially have access to your "Pokemon Storage System" at any point unlike previous gens, so it's not unreasonable (for me) that Go is able to have the right Pokemon on hand for most scenarios.

The problem is because the storage system doesn't seems to to be an actual thing in the anime tho. In the games, you can just pull whatever Pokémon you want out anywhere, because it's a game. In the anime, you have to conciously choose which Pokémon to carry if the ones that you have exceed 6. This was shown in the series ever since OS. And it wasn't something that was dropped ever since, since the very existence of Ash's Pokémon being in Oak's lab at the end of each series is still happening.

So, Goh has to actively choose with Pokémon to have in his pocket/backpack when he leaves the labs. The only other option is to call up someone at the lab to deliver the Pokémon he wants to him. He can't just,,, shove his hand into phone and get it. He seems to always have Grookey in his arm and Cinderace as his go-to battler, so that's already 2 slots being filled pratically 24/7. So that means he has to choose the other 4 everytime he goes into an adventure, or at least we are assuming he walks around with a full party, that is. But I think this is where the problem begins, you see.

Are you telling me Goh just happens to choose the Pokémon that just happens to be the perfect choices for whatever issue he will come across? He just happened to have Butterfree and Taillow with him to find Cubone's bone? That he had Caterpie with him that conviniently knew String Shot to help cross that swamp/lake? And that he had both A-Exeggutor and Raichu in his pocket that were the perfect picks to help Suicune out? Hum, how lucky he is, amiright?

You know, I get it: it's meant to give his Pokémon some spotlight and yada yada, but I mean, for real? He just chooses the perfect choices every day? He essentially pulls these ''small scale DEMs" so to speak out of his pockets whenever the plot seems fit? Iiisshhh...

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

The problem is because the storage system doesn't seems to to be an actual thing in the anime tho. In the games, you can just pull whatever Pokémon you want out anywhere, because it's a game. In the anime, you have to conciously choose which Pokémon to carry if the ones that you have exceed 6. This was shown in the series ever since OS. And it wasn't something that was dropped ever since, since the very existence of Ash's Pokémon being in Oak's lab at the end of each series is still happening.

In one Journeys episode, Goh actually caught a Pokémon when he was already shown to have six Pokémon on hand, and he didn't have to do anything to them to be able to keep and send out the newly caught Pokémon.

 

[Reborn Talonflame]

I kind of wish a main character was a Pokemon Ranger, cause at least then it would be believable that the character could call upon the powers of wild Pokemon that’s around them to help; aside from that front, could you imagine trying to “catch” all Pokemon in that type of manner, whilst still forming a core team to benefit missions. I mean, Project Mew’s trial mission says it’s attempting to “return” Alolan Ninetails, making it sound like a rescue mission, similar to a Ranger.

 

[Unireon]

I always wanted to see Kazuki in the anime.....

But alas, that never happened.....

 

[Enzo]

In one Journeys episode, Goh actually caught a Pokémon when he was already shown to have six Pokémon on hand, and he didn't have to do anything to them to be able to keep and send out the newly caught Pokémon.

That doesn't negates what I said tho. Taillow and Butterfree weren't caught in the Cubone episode. Just as Caterpie wasn't caught in that ep, and it goes for everybody else I mentioned. They were in the lab prior to those ocasions and Goh had to actively get them to be used. So it's not like he's carrying the entire lab population with him, is he?

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

That doesn't negates what I said tho. Taillow and Butterfree weren't caught in the Cubone episode. Just as Caterpie wasn't caught in that ep, and it goes for everybody else I mentioned. They were in the lab prior to those ocasions and Goh had to actively get them to be used. So it's not like he's carrying the entire lab population with him, is he?

No. But him catching and being able to use a seventh Pokémon without having to swap out other party members could be a reference to how Pokémon are "stored" in Pokémon GO.

 

[Eitarou]

What does it matter Goh had the right Pokemon for the task? Any large one could've covered provided they were covered in leaves or something. And literally anyone can gather Berries. And Drowzee was defeated in the end, so it wasn't a deus ex machina or anything.

 

[Enzo]

What does it matter Goh had the right Pokemon for the task? Any large one could've covered provided they were covered in leaves or something. And literally anyone can gather Berries. And Drowzee was defeated in the end, so it wasn't a deus ex machina or anything.

Well, I feel like this is going in circles, but just to say:

The fact that Goh always gets the correct Pokémon to use considering he doesn't carries his entire storage with him (for obvious reasons) and that he obviously can't summon it on the spot unlike in the SWSH games (since this is not a videogame) is a bit weird. It's just yet another instance of Goh barely going through challenges, since he just happens to have the perfect solution with him all along and doesn't have to make do and create a solution with what he has on hand. Seriously, there's just one singular instance where his choice wasn't perfect - but all of the others were.

And yeah, I also don't really think it's a DEM thing, at least not exactly, thus why I stated it as a ''small scale DEM'' because it is a convenient solution pulled out of nowhere for the task at hand, but it's not a huge, plot changing task. But it does gets noticiable after a while.

 

[Enzo]

No. But him catching and being able to use a seventh Pokémon without having to swap out other party members could be a reference to how Pokémon are "stored" in Pokémon GO.

I was gonna let this die already, but I saw this.

I just recalled something: In BW, when Ash captured Sewaddle, who was his 7th party member, the Pokéball got locked shut untill he transfered his Tranquill over to the Professor.

So even if that's a GO reference, that's yet another thing that was bent/destroyed in order to benefit Goh. He shouldn't be able to use more than 6. Period.

 

[Proud_box]

In one Journeys episode, Goh actually caught a Pokémon when he was already shown to have six Pokémon on hand, and he didn't have to do anything to them to be able to keep and send out the newly caught Pokémon.

tell me the episode number please

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

tell me the episode number please

Episode 15, where he caught Cubone.

 

[Teek]

Came here to read people's views on Goh catching Suicune. It's really something out of the ordinary... and it's stupid as well. Catching a legendary, the way it was caught, and how it decided to continue being Goh's pokémon and yet go out roam in the wild, it all doesn't really adds up. Was it so that now other poachers can't catch it? Since the Pokéballs don't work on the Pokémons already caught/registered to other trainers? Also, since it's been so long this episode actually aired, I was expecting to have a few more appearances of Goh's suicine... while I found only 1 on Bulbapedia Hope they can atleast make a movie and include it also.