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Preview JN099: Mary of Spike Town!

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Ghost Diplocaulus

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I did say in an earlier post that Gengar was probably getting a new move here, either Dazzling Gleam or a Poison type move. It realistically didn't stand much of a chance against Grimmsnarl without something new, its best bet would have been Ice Punch. Looks like that announcement was right after all though. But is it really going to be Psychic that gets replaced? Should be Night Shade instead. Personally, I'd like Gengar to get a Poison type move here instead/in addition to what it already has, since I stand by the notion that a dual-type Pokemon should be able to take advantage of both of its STABS, I always do so with dual types if I'm able. Eh, Dazzling Gleam's not bad though.
If it were up to me, Gengar's final moveset would have been this:
-Shadow Ball
-Ice Punch
-Dazzling Gleam
-Sludge Bomb/Wave
 

Alola

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The announcement showed that Dazzling Gleam would be replacing Psychic, even though Gengar was still seen using it in the Volkner battle and more recently in the Spiritomb episode. So up until this point, I think it was fair to assume that Dazzling Gleam being included in Gengar's moveset was an error since there have been zero indications of Gengar replacing Psychic with a new move, aside from that announcement around half a year ago. Of course, we now know that Gengar's eventual moveset update was most likely leaked early in that announcement.
Assumptions are fair, but my point was referring to how adamant and matter-of-fact some people were about said assumptions when the possibility of Gengar acquiring a new move existed nonetheless. It just goes to show that anything is ultimately possible within the series, particularly Journeys, no matter how unlikely and regardless of any precedents.
I did say in an earlier post that Gengar was probably getting a new move here, either Dazzling Gleam or a Poison type move. It realistically didn't stand much of a chance against Grimmsnarl without something new, its best bet would have been Ice Punch.
I agree with you completely on Gengar needing a better moveset to logically contend with a Grimmsnarl. But this is the anime and prior party Pokémon among the cast have successfully battled advantageous opponents with much less. Rarely is it addressed that a move-set update is necessary to overcome a foe in the anime, but this may very well be a case of that. Which would kind of be strange if so, since a STAB Poison-type move of Gengar's would be even more potent than the solution being "Hey, why don't we learn Dazzling Gleam to beat Grimmsnarl?"
 

CharizardFan7

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Unpopular opinion: I don’t really want psychic to be replaced. It’s one of those moves that’s just waiting for a creative-Ash moment to happen.
True, true......but coverage and STAB moves though.....'gotta have em! Psychic is good, though. I do see where you're coming from with that. Plus the move has its pratical uses too (levitating stuff, people, etc.)
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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Unpopular opinion: I don’t really want psychic to be replaced. It’s one of those moves that’s just waiting for a creative-Ash moment to happen.
I mean, I would keep it too, but Psychic is the move most likely to get the boot, sadly. I know that in a truly ideal moveset, Ice Punch would be the move to go, but the anime hardly ever has Pokemon use purely long-range moves or purely contact moves (though the latter is more common, especially among Fighting-types).

Also, and I know that this is going to sound like a conspiracy theory, but I get the feeling that Psychic is one of the main reasons Gengar is so frequently the fall guy. I mean, think about it: if Gengar's opponents don't deal with it fast enough, they have to contend with a move that has the potential to immobilize them in mid-air, which leaves almost any opponent completely defenseless, or redirect certain attacks back at them (something we've seen Sabrina's Kadabra and Mewtwo do), meaning Ash technically has the upper hand. This results in the mon with potentially the most OP move in Ash's roster constantly getting taken out first so the rest of Ash's team, who have less versatile moves to work with, is forced to pick up the slack. In other words, if Gengar gets rid of Psychic and the arguably unfair advantages it brings Ash, he might actually start winning things for a change since now he's a proper "underdog" like the rest of his team I guess.

No wonder, then, that Ash never caught a Psychic-type...
 

Unireon

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If it were up to me, Gengar's final moveset would have been this:
-Shadow Ball
-Ice Punch
-Dazzling Gleam
-Sludge Bomb/Wave
I would keep Psychic, with Dazzling Gleam replacing Ice Punch instead.

Gengar's forte is Special, not Physical, Attack.

Sludge Wave is better, that'd be my pick.
 

Unireon

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Please read my post directly above yours. There I explain why I kept the physical contact move.
That obsession with the underdog really needs to get dropped, right away.

Let's hope that that trend of most Pokemon needing a contact move is the next one Journeys breaks.

I forgot to add that if it really needs coverage, then Giga Drain is a far better option.
 

CharizardFan7

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That obsession with the underdog really needs to get dropped, right away.

Let's hope that that trend of most Pokemon needing a contact move is the next one Journeys breaks.

I forgot to add that if it really needs coverage, then Giga Drain is a far better option.
I think you're missing the point. What she's trying to say is that a battle engaged/dominated from far away is kinda meh/boring in the anime.
 

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Also, and I know that this is going to sound like a conspiracy theory, but I get the feeling that Psychic is one of the main reasons Gengar is so frequently the fall guy.
I can believe it honestly. Look at his win vs Visquez; he just freezes Raichu in the air, squishes and stretches it a bit, then crashes it against a wall for the KO. Move's portrayal is just overpowered.

Heck even as a fanfic writer Psychic is a pain in the neck to deal with.
 
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Unireon

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I think you're missing the point. What she's trying to say is that a battle engaged/dominated from far away is kinda meh/boring in the anime.
And I'm saying that a moveset has to be properly build, aiming for the optimal performance.

It needs to be objective and logical.
Boring or not, that is the least important thing.
 

CharizardFan7

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And I'm saying that a moveset has to be properly build, aiming for the optimal performance.

It needs to be objective and logical.
Boring or not, that is the least important thing.
In the games, sure. But in the anime....not so much.
 

Unireon

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In the games, sure. But in the anime....not so much.
And I thought that this new goal of Satoshi would be the most competitive yet.

It seems that they are still treating him like some sort of Joke Character.

If he loses in this episode, it's confirmed.
Gengar should've been the Ace.
 
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Ghost Diplocaulus

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And I thought that this new goal of Satoshi would be the most competitive yet.

It seems that they are still treating him like some sort of Joke Character.

If he loses in this episode, it's confirmed.
Gengar should've been the Ace.
The anime isn't the games, though: what would work in the former might not be so great in the latter and vice-versa. Just because they're not giving Ash's Pokemon the most game-efficient movesets it doesn't mean they're not making him more powerful: literally the only people he's lost against so far are Leon, Rinto, and Bea. Just three opponents in nearly 100 episodes. In nearly every other saga Ash already had enough losses to count on two hands by now.
 

Unireon

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Just three opponents in nearly 100 episodes. In nearly every other saga Ash already had enough losses to count on two hands by now.
Proportionality.

That's because previous series showed him working more actively towards his goal more often.

In Journeys; there was a huge hiatus in his progression, that the writers somehow thought that filling with a bunch of fillers or episodes where he just acts like a moron were far better than at least showing him training.
 
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Ghost Diplocaulus

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Proportionality.

That's because previous series showed him working more actively towards his goal more often.

In Journeys; there was a huge hiatus in his progression, that the writers somehow thought that filling with a bunch of fillers or episodes where he just acts like a moron were far better than at least showing him training.
Maybe, but it's still a pretty impressive feat for Ash. Also, that still doesn't explain why you're so adamant on anime movesets being accurate to what's most efficient for the games.
 

Unireon

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Maybe, but it's still a pretty impressive feat for Ash. Also, that still doesn't explain why you're so adamant on anime movesets being accurate to what's most efficient for the games.
That's because I usually train a Gengar in the games, I like the line, and I want Satoshi's to be treated better.

And, besides the liking factor, I rely more on stats and facts for most things.

Satoshi, and his Pokemon, shouldn't receive the Underdog treatment anymore.
It was fine until AG, but became an issue since DP.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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That's because I usually train a Gengar in the games, I like the line, and I want Satoshi's to be treated better.

And, besides the liking factor, I rely more on stats and facts for most things.

Satoshi, and his Pokemon, shouldn't receive the Underdog treatment anymore.
It was fine until AG, but became an issue since DP.
Dude, as someone whose favorite Pokemon's most standout moment was being part of the world's most overrated self-insert's team just so it could get pathetically oneshotted by an attack it should have resisted for the sake of glorifying a certain orange dragon that wasn't exactly starved of cool standout moments, I get it. It sucks when a favorite of yours gets crap treatment. But game-accurate movesets have very little to do with how a Pokemon is treated: I mean, just look at Ash's Lucario, who has been treated quite excellently by Journeys' standards despite the fact that its moveset is horrible from a gameplay perspective. Or, heck, Ash's Pikachu, whose moveset of Thunderbolt/Electroweb/Iron Tail/Quick Attack isn't exactly what you'd see a proper competitively-minded Pikachu use.

And I agree with the sentiment that Ash shouldn't be an underdog. I was just trying to rationalize it from the writers' perspective why Psychic might need to get the axe. Even without the underdog narrative Psychic is arguably still too overpowered to keep around because having an attack that has that much of an advantage on opponents just won't make fights that interesting, meaning that the only viable solutions are to either continue making Gengar the fall guy or just get rid of the OP move altogether. And if those are our only choices, then I obviously would much rather have the latter.
 
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