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Preview JN108: Lucario and Gekkouga! The Wave Guidance of Destiny!!

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FinnishPokéFan92

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Greninja still has fucking Cut. BOOOOO
Greninja is getting pawned so that Lucario can not be a disappointment like Greninja was... disgusting. If we get Ash-Lucario I’m going to barf
Greninja wasn't a disappointment. Even if it ultimately failed to win the Kalos League for Ash, it still performed really well and won against a lot of tough opponents.
 

Handy Man

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Greninja wasn't a disappointment. Even if it ultimately failed to win the Kalos League for Ash, it still performed really well and won against a lot of tough opponents.
Greninja’s best win was against Sawyer’s Sceptile. While I loved seeing Greninja in XY, as it was my favorite part of that series, I do feel like it never defeating Alain was a bit disappointing. Ash’s Charizard beat Gary’s Blastoise, Ash’s Infernape beat Paul’s Electivire, Ash’s Lycanroc beat Gladion’s Lycanroc, etc. Greninja beating Sceptile in the league brought its score 4-1 over Sceptile, which didn’t really prove as much as it defeating Alain’s Charizard could. Not to mention that Greninja wasn’t able to defeat Diantha’s Gardevoir due to Ash collapsing. You are right for the most part, Ash’s Greninja did win most of its fights, but I think it’s fair for someone to feel like Ash’s Greninja’s story arc wasn’t as satisfying as something like Ash’s Charizard or Ash’s Infernape. This is something that Journeys could fix though, as bringing back Greninja to Ash’s team could help it achieve even more big wins.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Not to mention that Greninja wasn’t able to defeat Diantha’s Gardevoir due to Ash collapsing.
Diantha was a Champion, and Ash was still trying to master this power-up, so I personally wouldn't count the end result of that battle against Greninja's resume.
This is something that Journeys could fix though, as bringing back Greninja to Ash’s team could help it achieve even more big wins.
Greninja already had its time to shine. It's not returning to Ash's team.
Ash’s Charizard
This may sound weird coming from a Charizard fan, but Greninja's arc was done better. Charizard just was a jerk to provide some comedic moments for most of the time. Sure its impact on Ash was notable, but Greninja's goal was pre-planned and well executed from start to finish. Even it losing the League wasn't really too big of a problem, since winning it was never its main goal.
 

Unireon

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Greninja already had its time to shine. It's not returning to Ash's team.
Gekkouga returning and getting battles is the only thing, besides bringing more past Aces and reserves, that could make Satoshi winning any Master Class matches believable.

I personally favour the plot of Lucario being the one left to fend off the roots, it gets the sensing mechanism from bonding/training with Gekkouga, after all it is an insipid fighting automaton.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Gekkouga returning and getting battles is the only thing, besides bringing more past Aces and reserves, that could make Satoshi winning any Master Class matches believable.

I personally favour the plot of Lucario being the one left to fend off the roots, it gets the sensing mechanism from bonding/training with Gekkouga, after all it is an insipid fighting automaton.
Lucario has a lot personality. Ash doesn't need to rely on Greninja for believable victories.
 

A Wild Luxray

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I'm actually pretty interested in this episode. Its disappointing seeing Greninja STILL has Cut though, and those stupid vines are still an issue. I have a feeling the reaction will ruin it though cause there's bound to be complaints about Lucario and Greninja.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

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Greninja already had its time to shine. It's not returning to Ash's team.

This may sound weird coming from a Charizard fan, but Greninja's arc was done better. Charizard just was a jerk to provide some comedic moments for most of the time. Sure its impact on Ash was notable, but Greninja's goal was pre-planned and well executed from start to finish. Even it losing the League wasn't really too big of a problem, since winning it was never its main goal.
Where Charizard and Infernape hyped up like Greninja was only to disappoint and lose? This is why Ash-Greninja is the biggest disappointment and failure.
Greninja is the worst developed Ash ace, and yes I’m including Krookodile.
Also Greninja’s main goal was to get stronger and Ash was given AG in the first place to help him win.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Where Charizard and Infernape hyped up like Greninja was only to disappoint and lose? This is why Ash-Greninja is the biggest disappointment and failure.
Greninja is the worst developed Ash ace, and yes I’m including Krookodile.
Also Greninja’s main goal was to get stronger and Ash was given AG in the first place to help him win.
Greninja didn't fail. It may have lost the League, but it fulfilled its main purpose as a hero and participated in saving the Kalos region from Team Flare.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Saving the world... that’s it. I wouldn’t call that statisfying plus it was a group effort
True. It was a team effort, but Greninja was in the forefront of that team effort. And as I've said before, Greninja's Gym and League battles (particularly the ones against Wulfric and Sawyer) show that it is plenty strong.
 

Handy Man

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Diantha was a Champion, and Ash was still trying to master this power-up, so I personally wouldn't count the end result of that battle against Greninja's resume.

Greninja already had its time to shine. It's not returning to Ash's team.

This may sound weird coming from a Charizard fan, but Greninja's arc was done better. Charizard just was a jerk to provide some comedic moments for most of the time. Sure its impact on Ash was notable, but Greninja's goal was pre-planned and well executed from start to finish. Even it losing the League wasn't really too big of a problem, since winning it was never its main goal.
If Dracovish and Dragonite can take down a Champion’s Pokémon, Greninja absolutely can now as well. Sure, Greninja’s battle against Diantha’s Gardevoir being incomplete makes it neither a win or a loss, but now that the Ash-Greninja form has been mastered since then, it would be satisfying to see Greninja get a rematch, if Diantha is in the Masters Eight.

Weither a Pokémon had time to shine in the anime is not up for us viewers to decide. The writers can do whatever they want. Ash’s Infernape had a satisfying story arc in DP, with no mention of it at all since DP’s ending outside of BW142, but JN068 proved that they can bring Infernape back if they want to for whatever reason. This goes for almost all of Ash’s Pokémon, including Pokémon like Squirtle, Goodra, and Naganadel. While I can think of reasons on why Ash’s Greninja may never rejoin Ash’s team, I think it’s pretty unhealthy to say that it’s completely done as a character and can never battle with Ash ever again. The fact that Greninja is appearing in this episode at all shows that the writers are willing to continue Greninja’s story in some way.

Also, I’m not really saying that Greninja’s arc is better than Charizard’s or anything like that. Original series is pretty different from everything that came afterwards, as the writers were still trying to figure out what they wanted the Pokémon anime to be. The point is that Greninja never got too many upsets, mostly solid wins. That is still respectable, but the fact that Greninja could still earn those upsets in Journeys makes the idea of him rejoining for the Masters Eight exciting for some people. I would love to see Greninja fight alongside Ash’s other aces personally.

Regardless of what I say though, it seems clear that you have a different opinion than I do. That is fine. I just feel like saying my piece, I’m not really interested in arguing. If Greninja’s arc really is done and XY was all he got, that’s alright with me, but I would love to see Greninja battle alongside Ash once again. Journeys could be the first time since the Sinnoh League and Charizard’s return in BW where Ash could use his reserves in general again, and that idea personally has me really excited. Only time will tell what happens.
 

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I hope that the move that gets replaced is Double Team. We've already seen that move used plenty of times by multiple Pokemon in the past whereas Ash's Lucario is the only Pokemon to have ever used Reversal. Plus, like I've said a dozen times in separate occasions already, Reversal fits Lucario's fighting style and personality to a tee, so it'd be a huge shame to see it go.
In the preview it shows him doing double team, so it's.not going anywhere sadly
 

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I don't mind Lucario keeping Double Team. I think I'd rather see him lose Reversal honestly.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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Reversal's the most unique move in Lucario's arsenal, though. I'd rather he keep that one.
 

puddleths

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Aura Sphere and Double Team aren't going anywhere. I'd be very surprised if Steel Beam is dropped so soon. And then there was one... Reversal.

But are we actually sure Lucario's getting a new move beyond the Aura Sphere upgrade?
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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Aura Sphere and Double Team aren't going anywhere. I'd be very surprised if Steel Beam is dropped so soon. And then there was one... Reversal.

But are we actually sure Lucario's getting a new move beyond the Aura Sphere upgrade?
The new move thing is mostly just speculation. Previews seem to hint more towards Aura Sphere being upgraded into a Spirit Bomb.
 

LeonMagnus

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As much as I’d love to see Greninja return I just don’t see it happening, since he carries such large weight with his presence, and its clear Lucario is the center piece. They could perhaps pull it off, but they would need to handle his final battles much differently than they have been.

His arc is finished and was very well done overall, it was just that the Sawyer and Alain rivalries were flat out poorly written and Greninja just happened to be a casualty of that mess. The league battles with those two were pretty much just a larger showcase of what those rivalries were like up to that point.

I would say this really is the perfect time for a “Greatest Hits” showcase of all of his Pokemon just stuck at Oaks, Incineroar was also pretty much not used at all and could benefit from the writers going in this direction. Just pick a few of his reserve Pokemon that were done dirty in their regional arcs and have a selection of them show up with with some of his Journey static partners in some of the upcoming battles.
 

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Greninja keeping Cut makes a little more sense if you look at its less generic Japanese name. It's not just Cut; it's Iai Cut. (Not that I blame the localizers for simplifying, since it isn't something where you can get the clear meaning across with just a few words in English).
 
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