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Review JN109: VS Kibana! Battle for Masters Eight!!

Weddingbells

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It's very likely Lucario's same attack won't succeed as easily if he does it again in the m8, especially if the writers want to build suspense. I can see the Champions countering it or it failing for whatever reason.

Here though it worked well as a follow up, and Duraludon only got 1 attack on Lucario before he used it. At the end before Lucario threw it Raihan called out the attack thinking the giant wall would flatten it but it broke right through, so it's not like Raihan did nothing.

I fail to see how this was the worst battle since Ash/Hau, when all 3 fights used tons of strategy and this time around Ash's Pokémon also didn't take an extreme amount of damage like the Drasna one before it. Animation was also much better for this series standards.
The one where I doubt strategy was used was Lucario. It was basically aura sphere and then use a bigger aura sphere. That's it.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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The one where I doubt strategy was used was Lucario. It was basically aura sphere and then use a bigger aura sphere. That's it.
That giant Aura Sphere didn't feel like it came out of nowhere, though, given the previous episode and Greninja's training.
 

Unireon

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That giant Aura Sphere didn't feel like it came out of nowhere, though, given the previous episode and Greninja's training.
It may have came from the previous episode.
But that doesn't change the fact that the jackal tanked everything until its attack worked somewhat once again.
That is becoming its schtick and getting old, tiring and annoying.
You know, the whole G-Max Aura Sphere being fueled by the bonds of Ash’s team would land a lot more effectively had the series ever actually bothered to establish a dynamic among Ash’s team.
I thought that the jackal was drawing power from the infinity cosmic reservoir.
At least they didn't put bonding scenes that they could claim happened off-screen.

Rewatching with subs didn't change or clarify anything, got everything watching the raw.
 

nickdt

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The thing i find interesting is that Surf is supposedly being allowed again.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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Yeah, the only reason Surf is rare likely has more to do with it being tricky to animate when compared to other Water-type moves. Shooting water or bubbles out of your mouth is a lot simpler to visualize and create variations for than summoning a giant wave out of nowhere.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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It may have came from the previous episode.
But that doesn't change the fact that the jackal tanked everything until its attack worked somewhat once again.
That is becoming its schtick and getting old, tiring and annoying.
Lucario only took hit from a Max Steelspike before the move was used. G-Max Depletion was wiped out and Max Rockfall ended up doing nothing.
 

Sai

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It may have came from the previous episode.
But that doesn't change the fact that the jackal tanked everything until its attack worked somewhat once again.
Lucario only got bit by 1 attack. I don't know where you're getting the idea it was tanking things from. After that it was standing in the middle of the vortex.
I thought that the jackal was drawing power from the infinity cosmic reservoir.
At least they didn't put bonding scenes that they could claim happened off-screen.

Rewatching with subs didn't change or clarify anything, got everything watching the raw.
It was pretty obvious the ball was powering up thinking about it's friends, which is why they showed Dragonite/Gengar fainted, the other pokemon, even Go and Cinderace, etc.
 

Reborn Talonflame

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Not really sure where to put this, but I see a lot of people (not sure if they’ve watched the anime around Sun & Moon and Journeys) making videos about how the show announced the Masters Eight, and more specifically how Ash is there.

It’s funny because the majority of posts say Ash shouldn’t be there.
Whilst I don’t feel as though Ash has had the best road shown to getting here (Lucario’s Aura Power-Up training still hasn’t been explained properly - I’m assuming Greninja taught it to match it’s wavelength and flow, represented by the ripples, to make it conditioned for Ash’s), it’s crazy how there are people who are adamant of Ash being regarded as a noob and a weakling.

We’ve certainly come a long way. Honestly, adding onto ideas for Ash’s adventure after the PWC, I’d love to see him coach a rookie trainer. He doesn’t even have to be old, certainly older, but probably sixteen, or so.
 

vivian20

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This battle was much better than the battle against Drasna. Gmax Gengar was used well, its all absorbing mouth is actually usefull. Gengar is a much better gmax than pikachu , that just becomes fat. Pikachu is better just using his Z move.

Lucario had type advantage against duraludon and resisted all moves it had. Raihan could have attacked Lucario when it was charging the spirit bomb, but the spirit bomb just countered the previous move. The champions likely will learn how to counter it.
 

Enzo

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Not really sure where to put this, but I see a lot of people (not sure if they’ve watched the anime around Sun & Moon and Journeys) making videos about how the show announced the Masters Eight, and more specifically how Ash is there.

It’s funny because the majority of posts say Ash shouldn’t be there.
Whilst I don’t feel as though Ash has had the best road shown to getting here (Lucario’s Aura Power-Up training still hasn’t been explained properly - I’m assuming Greninja taught it to match it’s wavelength and flow, represented by the ripples, to make it conditioned for Ash’s), it’s crazy how there are people who are adamant of Ash being regarded as a noob and a weakling.
I've said it here multiple times, but I'll say it again: It's cuz there's a lot of people who swear up and down that Ash is a dumbass, idiotic trainer who doesn't knows how to battle and is weak, so anytime the anime refuses to play their made-up narrative and lets Ash win something, they get pissed.

Slighty off-topic, but one of BW's biggest mistakes to me was the writers playing exactly into that and rebooting Ash's battling experience. It just gave these people a lot of fuel that they ate up with gusto, and we're still feeling the reverberations to this day. Cuz hey, it's not like the "Pikachu got defeated by a level 5 Snivy!" jokes ever died, right?
 

Lightning Flame Blast

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I've said it here multiple times, but I'll say it again: It's cuz there's a lot of people who swear up and down that Ash is a dumbass, idiotic trainer who doesn't knows how to battle and is weak, so anytime the anime refuses to play their made-up narrative and lets Ash win something, they get pissed.

Slighty off-topic, but one of BW's biggest mistakes to me was the writers playing exactly into that and rebooting Ash's battling experience. It just gave these people a lot of fuel that they ate up with gusto, and we're still feeling the reverberations to this day. Cuz hey, it's not like the "Pikachu got defeated by a level 5 Snivy!" jokes ever died, right?
I still see the “beat a Regice, tied with a Latios and lost to a Snivy” meme shade going around, so nope it didn’t die.
 

Kurolegacy

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I've said it here multiple times, but I'll say it again: It's cuz there's a lot of people who swear up and down that Ash is a dumbass, idiotic trainer who doesn't knows how to battle and is weak, so anytime the anime refuses to play their made-up narrative and lets Ash win something, they get pissed.

Slighty off-topic, but one of BW's biggest mistakes to me was the writers playing exactly into that and rebooting Ash's battling experience. It just gave these people a lot of fuel that they ate up with gusto, and we're still feeling the reverberations to this day. Cuz hey, it's not like the "Pikachu got defeated by a level 5 Snivy!" jokes ever died, right?
It’s honestly made even worse by the fact that it wasn’t a one-off thing. Somehow, in spite of the experience gap, even after Pikachu got its electric problem fixed, Trip was always a step ahead of Ash until he beat him in the league. That’s just terrible.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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It’s honestly made even worse by the fact that it wasn’t a one-off thing. Somehow, in spite of the experience gap, even after Pikachu got its electric problem fixed, Trip was always a step ahead of Ash until he beat him in the league. That’s just terrible.
I think the problem is that they tried to make him into Unova's version of Paul by having him basically start his journey in a region just like Ash did and always be a step or two ahead of him. The problem with that, though, is that Trip was a legit beginner, while Paul had already been to several other regions beforehand, so he had just as much experience as Ash by the point and thus truly felt like a serious threat to him. Trip had no such advantage. They tried to paint him as Ash's superior, despite him being a beginner with no prior experience.
 

Reborn Talonflame

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I think the problem is that they tried to make him into Unova's version of Paul by having him basically start his journey in a region just like Ash did and always be a step or two ahead of him. The problem with that, though, is that Trip was a legit beginner, while Paul had already been to several other regions beforehand, so he had just as much experience as Ash by the point and thus truly felt like a serious threat to him. Trip had no such advantage. They tried to paint him as Ash's superior, despite him being a beginner with no prior experience.
To expand upon this, they made the decision to essentially copy the Lake Acuity battle on episode TEN of the series, having Ash lose 5-2 against Trip.
Paul and Ash’s battle had around a hundred episodes of build-up, with the Chimchar plot and Brandon loss being pivotal in their differences as trainers, so when Paul crushed Ash, it made him feel as though Paul is right about his methods.
Here, what do I know about Trip? There’s no build-up of emotions/philosophies on the line, it’s so early that the loss didn’t even have the same impact on Ash (he acted the same afterwards as he did before), and it made Ash look completely incompetent. What was the point?

Yet, despite this, Ash somehow draws against Trip in their next battle, Trip loses to Cilan and Bianca, then randomly gets his Serperior super-juiced and dominates the Junior Cup, then Ash catches up again for the league, albeit without much training. Trip is honestly the worst-written in terms of battles/power.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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What about Camoron? Ash lost that one and that was at the LEAGUE, against a trainer who only brought along five Pokémon!
And even then essentially sacced two of those five Pokemon by sending them out against opponents with a double advantage against their types.
 

Reborn Talonflame

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What about Camoron? Ash lost that one and that was at the LEAGUE, against a trainer who only brought along five Pokémon!
Whilst he is indeed a moron, I think Cameron was intended to be just that. The writers thought it would be funny to mock the league, the most important aspect to many fans, through him, and consistently made Cameron an idiot throughout his appearances.

Trip was supposed to be the main rival, yet somehow ended up getting knocked out in the preliminaries. His consistency, in terms of his character, was up and down like a rollercoaster. The writing from one battle didn’t match the next at all.
At least with Cameron, we knew he was stupid at the time of the Marlon battle, yet he still displayed his abilities, much akin to OS Ash and B&W Ash.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Whilst he is indeed a moron, I think Cameron was intended to be just that. The writers thought it would be funny to mock the league, the most important aspect to many fans, through him, and consistently made Cameron an idiot throughout his appearances.

Trip was supposed to be the main rival, yet somehow ended up getting knocked out in the preliminaries. His consistency, in terms of his character, was up and down like a rollercoaster. The writing from one battle didn’t match the next at all.
At least with Cameron, we knew he was stupid at the time of the Marlon battle, yet he still displayed his abilities, much akin to OS Ash and B&W Ash.
I think Cameron was a case of him winning through dumb luck, i.e. by his Pokémon randomly evolving in the middle of the battle. Ash had the same happen to him several times throughout BW, so it happening to his opponent instead was a sort of reversal of that.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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I think Cameron was a case of him winning through dumb luck, i.e. by his Pokémon randomly evolving in the middle of the battle. Ash had the same happen to him several times throughout BW, so it happening to his opponent instead was a sort of reversal of that.
Yeah, the problem is that with all the other dumb stuff Cameron did in the battle the supposed "karma" against Ash's constant victories through evolution just comes off as way too excessive, because it's not like Ash was constantly doing similarly dumb things in his battles (except the one against Elesa... which Ash actually won without any evolution shenanigans, making it a moot point). If Cameron had brought a full team and not made such crucial misplays, then I don't think anywhere near as many people would mind him beating Ash through his Riolu evolving.
 
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