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Preview JN117: VS Shirona! Iris's Road to Dragon Master!!

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Ghost Diplocaulus

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Oh you're being a bit "rude", aren't you? :censored: Cynthia isn't that old after all! ;) And who says that she won't or can't grow any further off-screen ?
Excuse me, when and where did I ever call Cynthia old?? I called her a mentor archetype, something that any person of any age can be, with the only requirement being that they need to be older and more experienced than whoever they're mentoring: Brock himself was a sort of mentor for Ash in the early series, and he's only 15 years old.

Please don't go and put words in my mouth.
 

Mew2

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For Ash to look like he has a legitimate chance against Leon, assuming he's just using his Journeys Team and not his Reserves, I think that Cynthia has to at the very least beat Iris convincingly, if not outright curbstomp her. Leon trounced Alain, who managed to beat Ash with a Mega Pokémon that was beaten soundly by Leon's normal Charizard. It's almost certain that if, or rather when, Ash faces Cynthia, it will come down to his last Pokémon. If Cynthia has a lot of trouble with Iris, an opponent that Ash has already beaten, then he won't look all that strong going into his eventual battle with Leon unless he decides to go back on his current plan and call in some reserves, preferably Infernape, Charizard, and/or Snorlax (mainly to deal with Rillaboom and a likely Dragapult in the event of a 6-on-6). Now, if Cynthia has trouble against Iris, it is possible for Ash to later beat her convincingly but I don't think the writers will give him that type of victory against her. As such, in my view, she needs to at least have more than one Pokémon able to battle by the end of her battle against Iris for Ash beating her to make it look like he has a legitimate shot at beating Leon rather than it looking like a victory due to plot and only plot. Of course, this is all dependent on Ash sticking with his Journeys team exclusively. If a Pokémon or two get hurt or worn out from over battling and Ash has to call in some reserves, a win with them will look far more realistic even if Cynthia does still have trouble with Iris, especially if members of the GPICSS squad or Incineroar or Lycanroc are used.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

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And personly i think Lucario is stronger then Greninja.
It will be imo. Lucario will be Ashs strongest ever. Originally I thought that Lucario does not have the feats to be stronger than Greninja yet now I think it beating Raihan’s Duraludon makes it stronger than Greninja.
 

Chilon

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Absolutly right. I wish me a Alain special training episode to show his true power that gets nerfed in the fight against Leleleleleleon.
 

Mew2

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Ash has grown stronger since the Kalos League.
I would also expect the same of Alain. He doesn't look to have slacked off since the Kalos League and has even gotten a new Charizardite X. And Ash is using newer Pokémon who don't have the same experience as his older aces, most of who have battled in more than one region or league and even for the ones that have not, we know Infernape has not stopped training and Greninja is still quite strong and able to battle. Even if Ash has an uphill battle, the obstacle must seem to be surmountable. In his previous battles, Leon was, indeed, strong, but still looked to be surmountable, especially if it was anything other than a one-on-one battle. Now, the writers look to be artificially buffing him up to seem truly unbeatable so if or when Ash beats him, it won't look like it was a realistic possibility unless he uses some of his older reserves. Now, that could still be a one off if he has a challenge in the form of the victor of the Lance and Diantha battle, but if not, then it will look increasingly unrealistic for Ash to have a chance against Leon if he only uses his Journeys team.
 

Queen Cynthia

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Excuse me, when and where did I ever call Cynthia old?? I called her a mentor archetype, something that any person of any age can be, with the only requirement being that they need to be older and more experienced than whoever they're mentoring: Brock himself was a sort of mentor for Ash in the early series, and he's only 15 years old.

Please don't go and put words in my mouth.
So then I got you wrong, sorry.

However, you must admit this line of yours was misleading:
Cynthia is a mentor type character who clearly reached her zenith years ago in-universe.
One could interpret it like you wanted to say Cynthia is like those soccer players in their late 30s who already reached their full potential a long time ago and now they no longer are what they used to be perfomance-wise.
I found it "rude" because Cynthia's time is far from being "over" and nobody can know for sure that she's "reached her zenith" already. There's really nothing in the show indicating that!
Who knows if the PWC had already existed during DPPt? So, you could even argue that since those good old days in Sinnoh, Cynthia has made considerable progress by going all the way from Sinnoh Champion to number 2 in the world. I absolutely can't see why she should have reached her zenith already.
 
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Ghost Diplocaulus

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So then I got you wrong, sorry.

However, you must admit this line of yours was misleading:

One could interpret it like you wanted to say Cynthia is like those soccer players in their late 30s who already reached their full potential a long time ago and now they no longer are what they used to be perfomance-wise.
I found it "rude" because Cynthia's time is far from being "over" and nobody can know for sure that she's "reached her zenith" already. There's really nothing in the show indicating that!
Who knows if the PWC had already existed during DPPt? So, you could even argue that since those good old days in Sinnoh, Cynthia has made considerable progress by going all the way from Sinnoh Champion to number 2 in the world. I absolutely can't see why she should have reached her zenith already.
Sorry, I'm not sure how my words could be interpreted that way, let alone that I was being rude. Maybe I should have been more clear, but the "rude" comment didn't feel warranted, seeing how I wasn't insulting anyone or anything.

I used the word "zenith" because the fact of the matter is that Cynthia is never going to be the best or strongest Trainer in the world for the simple fact that she's not a main character and the role of "strongest, but is going to be usurped by the main character" was already given to Leon. Those factors mean that Cynthia sadly doesn't really have much, if any, room to grow, and the absolute best she's going to get is keeping her Sinnoh Champion title forever, since clearly nobody is going to be taking that spot from her now that our eternally kid protagonist has become Champion of a completely different region. Sure, her Top 8 PWC ranking can shuffle around a bit, but since Champions are all highly implied to be relatively close to each other in skill and power (with the exception of Leon, who seems to be above literally everyone by a significant margin, and it's beyond obvious that the only person who might overcome him is Ash) that really doesn't amount to much improvement, especially seeing how Cynthia is already ranked second in the world, which is the highest she's going to get.

Look, I get it, it sucks to see your favorite character not get all the sweet stuff that the mains get. But that's just how it is for anyone who isn't a main character, and Cynthia is more of a supporting character than a main one. That's why she doesn't get MC privileges. Even so, Cynthia still gets significantly better treatment than many, many, many other supporting characters do, so I do have to admit that I find it surprising that you seem to be under the impression that she's being disrespected.
 

Chilon

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Cythia gets so much treatment: wich trainer didn't get some huh? What do you mean under treatment?
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Staff list, provided by Dephender.

Screenplay 冨岡淳広 (Atsuhiro Tomioka)
Storyboard 齋藤徳明 (Noriaki Saito)
Episode Director 上野史博 (Fumihiro Ueno)
Animation Director 篠原隆 (Takashi Shinohara)
 

Sai

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Tomioka writing is great, this follow-up to BW will feel great. I honestly can't believe people wanted Iris to battle Lance over Cynthia, at least here we have some anime continuity. Lance is basically like a non-character half the time.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

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Excadrill vs Gastrodon: Gastrodon is recalled
Excadrill vs Milotic: Milotic wins
Haxorus vs Milotic: Haxorus wins, is recalled
Goodra vs Gastrodon: Goodra wins
Goodra vs Garchomp: Garchomp wins
Haxorus vs Mega Garchomp: Mega Garchomp wins
If this happens I will be very salty because Iris’s Goodra got a KO in a major tournament before Ash’s, Excadrill jobs and Goodra gets a win instead, and powerscaling wise Cynthia should destroy Iris worse than Leon did Alain. It should all be one shots on Cynthia’s side or powerscaling makes no sense than it did before.
 

Chilon

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Excadrill? Pls only dragons for Iris!!!
Goodra is a nice idea that i very support but isn't the chance big that they use an other dragon like Druddigon?
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Excadrill? Pls only dragons for Iris!!!
Goodra is a nice idea that i very support but isn't the chance big that they use an other dragon like Druddigon?
If Iris is to use a third Dragon, it should be Garchomp.
 

Chilon

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If Iris is to use a third Dragon, it should be Garchomp.
I know what you mean and i didn't find Druddigon a good opinion. Garchomp: Another offscreen Phase 2 Evo. Nah... Two Garchomps. Isn't it a little boring? Ok, eventually not, for me its just that i havent a bind to him. But thats me!!
Pokemon for Iris: Drampa and Hisuian Goodra?

Imao: Iris has gets an Dracovish from Galar because he likes Ashs one. Besides then it is a must-have for me to show Ash vs. Iris Fight that i didn't will be hate....but not love:confused:
 
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Eitarou

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Champ Iris doesn't even use a full Dragon team at any point in the games, so I see zero reason she needs to be limited in such a way.
 

Chilon

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Aha, in the game, aha. And she is a dragon master? But your right. And here is why i think u are right: so first of all i will not say anything about others all my opinion. I've always liked that Iris catches other Unova Pokemon and not just Dragon Pokemon. I think that's good and at the same time it's nice to see that Iris tames a wild Druddigon or something. That's kind of the reason why I like Iris. Putting your now strong, cruel dragons between your fingers to pump them up a bit and not just limp (no front) moles or even emolgas is heartless and in my opinion destroys the closeness to the character I already meant. But I can't really do without the dragon breath and...forget the goodra idea...they should maybe bring a normal form goodra comeback after all
 
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nickdt

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Excadrill vs Gastrodon: Gastrodon is recalled
Excadrill vs Milotic: Milotic wins
Haxorus vs Milotic: Haxorus wins, is recalled
Goodra vs Gastrodon: Goodra wins
Goodra vs Garchomp: Garchomp wins
Haxorus vs Mega Garchomp: Mega Garchomp wins
If this happens I will be very salty because Iris’s Goodra got a KO in a major tournament before Ash’s, Excadrill jobs and Goodra gets a win instead, and powerscaling wise Cynthia should destroy Iris worse than Leon did Alain. It should all be one shots on Cynthia’s side or powerscaling makes no sense than it did before.

Honestly, this needs to be fake. They can't disrespect Excadrill like that, not giving it a win. I also doubt Iris is sidelining Dragonite
 
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